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Diversity?
Fensus
Member Posts: 211
I'll try to keep this from turning into a WoW Bashing post. I was wondering how everyone else copes witht the lack of class diversity in WoW. I understand that alot of people tell me the diversity lies in the specs of the classes rather than having seperate classes for different things. But honestly how far can the diversity go in specs alone? you throw fireballs instead of ice balls, or swing a sword instead of an axe, or sneak attack from the front instead of the back?
In my experience I find diversity leads to a much fuller experience. The most obvious comparison would be between daoc and WoW. ( im not comparing gameplay or anything so dont get riled up) In Daoc you have 44 some odd classes each with about at least 2 unique different specs, yes different melee weapons are also calculated in there because in Daoc different weapons have different play styles, I.E. positionals, procs and such. Rather than just different damage types( slash, pierce, crush).
Now that last paragraph isnt entirely accurate because alot of classes do somewhat repeat, ( bolters/nukers are somewhat similar for each realm) thought they have enough differences and unique abilities to attract different people to different classes, which is what i consider diverse.
Now when you compare that to only a handfull of classes in WoW how do all the people who deeply enjoy WoW justify this im-balance? does it not bother you to be standing in a populated area and see 1/7 people looking almost just like you with a high chance they have the same skills.
Some people complain that Daoc has TOO many classes, leading to each class only being able to do a small single job which is only partly true since this only applies to a classes main strength, neglecting their other abilities. Besides i believe in a game with many classes this leads to enhanced teamplay, needing to rely on others more. This also helps to make classes more playable by having more than one class that can bring a similar needed skill to the group, ( you dont HAVE to have a minstrel, you can rely on several other characters for you're speed bonus.
In WoW, from what ive seen this cannot be achieved due to the lack of more classes. ( only shamans can do shaman stuff, only assasins can stealth, and so on) meaning certain classes are much more valuable than others leading to imbalances. Which is exactly what you DO NOT want in a game with such few classes.
Anyways. theres my oppinion, flame away.
Comments
These cookie-cutter builds definitely detract from the individuality and uniqueness of each character which didn't impact me until I hit endgame. But I felt with WoW, once I hit endgame, most elements of the game were very uniform and cookie-cutter, not just the class builds and that is why I ultimately left the game.
As far as the actually classes in WoW, I thought they did very well. I mainly played a rogue, but also leveled a priest and a warlock, and felt that each one played in a unique, fun way that made content that I'd been through before with previous characters challenging and fun in a new way.
I have played WoW since launch. I think there is a major difference in each class. Sure every class does dmg in some way. But in my opinion it's the little things that make each class unique. Whether it's the Shadow Priests Vampric Embracn and Vampric Touch, or the Paladin's amazing buffs, or the quick effective healing of a resto Druid, or the high dps ranged attacks of a Hunter (also the Hunter's Traps for Crowd Control), or the dmg over Time ability a Warlock offers, or the amazing control a rogue can have in a fight if done right, or the superb tanking abilities of a Warrior, or the massive dmg a Mage can put out and their survivability as a Frost Mage not to mention a mage can conjure food and water for everyone in a party and give a highly effective intellect buff, then their is Shaman, they can be an amazing support class with all the different totems they bring to the table.
You must not have played WoW for a long period of time. Each class really shines once they hit 70. There are ALOT of players in thsi game who never use their class to their fullest. But when you group with ppl who actually know what they are doing, then you can see how each class does truly differ. I have now just got into doing Arena. You will hear many peoples opinions of what classes are the best to use in there. Well I have beaten all different kinds of groups. If done right, and done effectively you can win in there. You just have to know how to use your class in the right way. Every class brings something different to the table, you just need to figure out when and where to use them.
I understand you're guy's points, but i wasnt questioning WoW's classes diversity form each other, i agree that a shaman is different than a warrior and so on, but i think they botched on the AMOUNT of diversity, like personally i think they should have introduced more classes with BC. That was a perfect opportunity for them to fix what alot of people complain about, instead they just throw in some new races to make people LOOK different. why not add a lich class in there or a death knight or something.
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I agree that there should be more classes to choose from. Everyone wishes that. Alot of people say that TBC was not a good expansion. i disagree entirely. While they did not introduce new classes, they introduced alot of other things. Many of things I have still not done with my character. (Shadow Priest BTW) I'm glad they did away with 40 man raids, and are now 25 man raids. I am in a small guild, but we have enough ppl to run those 25 man raid instances now. There is so much to actually do now in this game, it's a great thing.
I have read that Blizzard plans on releasing an expansion every year now following TBC. Hopefully they do offer new classes in the next expansion. That would be amazing. But I guess we just have to wait and see...
The next 'update' will be around the late September-October timeframe due to the release of AoC, Blizzard will attempt to slow their losses down by adding a new dungeon when AoC is released. The same thing applies with early '08 when WAR is released, look for Blizzard to send out something else there too.
psh, I cant even get a group as a priest if I'm Shadow Speced...
And as a caster, the spec of the tank can make a big difference; life or death!
I'd say the talent trees affect a LOT of the game
although I do agree that they should even out the power of the classes. I'm sure its not a coincidence that 50% of the players on my server are Hunters...
Currently Playing : WAR, UO, RL
One reason for the lack of class diversity is the fact that much of this game, excluding raiding, is geared towards the more casual. But, if you really look, you will find that many different builds plus the effects of all the possible gear combinations actually does give quite a bit of diversity to this game. Take starcraft for example. It only has 3 races and has a relatively small number of different units for each race compared to many of your current RTS games like Age of Empires III; however, most people agree that it is one of the most deep RTS games currently available.
In the end, logic and reason always beat out fanboys.
Keep in mind, DAOC did not start out with 44 classes, about a 1/3rd of those were added across 3 or 4 expansions.... WOW's only had one, and they decided to give both sides the same classes to balance things a little better. (the PVE centric nature of WOW really does sort of demand it)
I think Blizzard will add more classes, but not at a prolific rate. One big failing of DAOC was the fact that the new classes were always way over powered starting out...only to be nerfed much later on after they were firmly ingrained.. (and in some cases the new classes are still too strong)
You mention the need for a Death Night? What exactly would he do that would make him different than a Warrior? Maybe use a Fear spell? Wait, no, Warriors already have that? Maybe a power to intimidate their foes? No, wait... already there? I know...maybe they can feed off the dead corpses of their foes? No, no, that isn't new.
Truth is, WOW's managed to include almost every possible skill combination you can think of in the classes that they have, and of course, for those they've missed, they got to keep them in reserve so that they can give players more cool skills with each expansion. (esp since they plan to pad on about 10 levels per exp)
DAOC didn't work like this... level 50 was it... forever and ever...and although there was a 2nd skill tree from the RVR combat, you'd go a long time before ever obtaining all the available skills (wasn't actually possible, you had to pick and chose)
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I have found that more and more people are wanting a Shadow Priest in their group. Healers love shadow priests mainly because of their VT and VE spells. Of course healers are needed way more than shadow priests due to the lack of of them. And some people due get annoyed when they invite a Priest to their group only to find out that they are Shadow specced. But a good player knows what a Shadow Priest can do for a group. I have considered in the past to switch to a holy spec. But I have so much fun with shadow, whether it's doing BGs or Arena, or instancing. Plus I have been getting more and more invites for instances just for being shadow priest. So I seriously doubt I will ever switch to a different spec.
WoW is meant to be a simple game - the character classes (with the possible exception of the hybrids) are basic archetypes, each designed with a specific role in mind. The idea - although it hasn't been implemented very well - is that the selection of talents can be used to change the character from the basic archetype. EQ2, for example, has Guardians and Berserkers, both well-suited for the "tank" position. WoW has Warriors which can be specced for offense or for defense, while still being viable tanks.
WoW is simple, and doesn't have much diversity to it, but that doesn't bother me. That's not why I play WoW. When I have brainpower to spare, and I want a rich and complex experience, I'll play one of my other games. When I just want to play a fun little game without having to think too hard, I play WoW. Kill monster, take treasure, repeat. Less complex does not mean less fun.