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When will we ever see a truly original MMORPG again?
Mimzel
Member UncommonPosts: 375
Ok, I never played UO, but I have played EQ1, so In my book, it all started there. EQ1 became the norm, and you got copy cats stealing good ideas from eachother. After so many years, it's all a big copy cat fest. We could end up calling it MMOCCG...
It's always the same arche types (the tank, the dps, the healer, the CC (and some times a debuffer class)), you have starter quests when you join the game that asks you to kill rats. Bring furs and teeth and paws. Then go speak with your next quest npc. Some games you go get a group and grind mob xp without quests connected to the mobs (most games actually).
Most games are based around the fantasy genre (eq1, eq2, DAoC, LOTRO, VG), and others are more on the sci/fi side of things (ao, eve, swg). But its always the same concepts, and the developers dont even try to hide it.
let me say this out loud: If I want to play a game that is based on eq1 concepts, I will frikken go play eq1... Joining a mmorpg today that is less than 6 months old usually means you'll play eq1 as it was before it actually got upgraded... And WHY would I want to pay for that?
Yours truly
Comments
I agree. To me, most are basically the same when you get down to it. A bunch of grindfest and I got tired of PvP over and over. That is why I am looking at Adellion now. It has interesting concepts and I hope they can pull it off.
AKA - Bruxail
Your joking right?
First EQ1 was based of a Diku mud... So IT is a copycat too.
Please specify what you think would be a unique MMO while still staying an MMO... There is second life which is pretty unique... How bout EVE that is space based... real time skill progression... player based economy... Hmmm... how bout puzzle pirates that uses puzzles for any kind of interaction even PvP.
This post needs to be locked for stupidity.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
several "original" MMORPG's are on the way... PotBS is like nothing ever seen before.... a number of upcoming MMO's (like AoC) feature real time skill based combat..... If Darkfall ever comes out it is not going to have levels...... There are PvP-centric games too...
There are still big holes to be filled, many of us are left "homeless" seeking a particular combination of features we prefer.. but certainly all MMO's currently on the market and under development are not all clones....
oh and P.S.- NOTHING currently on the market is like EQ1 before it got upgraded...
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Money talks, and it says, do what is financially secure, thats why I am sure we will see another original game come along, and after it becomes successful we will see copy after copy, that is pretty much the way games and entertainment works, someone does something new and is successful at it, then everybody copys them. Just Like the Matrix or Grand Theft Auto.
But yeah there are tons of ways to do an MMO and tons of settings, it would be nice to see more than the typical EQ clone.
Edit: Forgot about Eve, AO, and Second Life, which is a good start but we could use more.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Atziluth, your tempting me to turn right into your troll trap and say "please read before you reply", as I said that *in my book* (based on MY game experience), but instead I'll just ask you to take a look at the principles my post highlights instead of arguing over the details (thats where the devil is anyway). And you can stop with the name calling.
And yes, I'll admit that nothing that is out there right now prolly resembles eq1 before it got upgraded, but I wrote it to get my point aross - which is that most every mmo Ive come across has been a copy of another. Where it all started is really irrelevant.
hmm what kind of concepts would I deem original in the MMO genre?
Well how about making a MMO
- based on the life of a city, with superior, real life graphics. You have politics, bureucrats, professionals and criminals :P
- based on Sherlock Holmes
- based on air lines (not really flight sim - more the social, roleplaying aspect of it - i dunno, I just love the air travel aspect)
- a diplomatic MMO where aliens are arriving on earth for the first time in history
just give me something else than 5 rats, teeth and paws and next quest npc. Maybe I'll repay a visit on EVE when they launch their "station walk" update this fall. Right now it's very non-immersive for me (and too much wallstreet in space) since I never see the avatars of my friends there.
Actually I take my last suggestion back - aliens are over done already
I completely agree...WAR is kinda veering the EQ1 track though, being all pvp...but who knows...they *probably* wont have all that they promised on release, so it probably doesnt matter anyway...
The point I made rather bluntly is that most people have never seen an original MMO unless you are 28+ years old. I understand your experience but the argument is flawed and you were rather caustic in your original post.
All the examples you listed are just different skins... They are not really unique. The mechanics are still the same... essentially your first example you listed the different classes.... as a politician you might have a quest like go out and get X signitures for your campaign... It is still a gathering quest.
Sherlock Holmes - revolving around an element of mystery... your still going to have gather quests (clues), capture quests, and combat based on stats.
Air Travel - classes stewardess, pilot, even passenger. Gather quests (peanuts and pretzels), Travel quests... (hit so many cities in X time)... Skills like serving, piloting, shutting up annoying kid.
Etc... Etc...
You can change the color, rims, tires, interior, and tint the glass... but at the end... a car is a car... MMORPG has certain mechanics behind them... you can change the skin and background on them but they are all essentially the same underneath.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
EQ1 didn't have PvP until at least a year after release... EQ1 was developed as a purely PvE game. People wonder why I am so hostile... Do not make baseless statements before you know your facts.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
POTBC is probably one of the most unique games comming out soon, it all stems from these three branches, Its either too EQ like, either too UO like or either too SWG like. theres no other branch.
If you can predict it, then it's predictable.
Ponder that a bit, because that's your answer.
Give me an adequate budget and a free pick of designers, artists and (imo, most importantly) programmers, and I'll hand you a pretty original one. I honestly doubt it'll get a huge player-base - it might not even be feasible with today's technology (especially on the AI side) - but it'll be original for sure.
What is diku mud? From what I've seen EQ was clearly modeled after D&D second edition. The races/classes, the characters abilities, nearly everything is almost the same. They just changed some of the names and made it their own world.
I think after you have played games for a long time you start looking at everything as timesinks regardless if that was the devs intention or not. Everything jaded because you are looking for it. There isn't much you can do, but to stop playing for a while and hope you can recapture the feeling you had when you first started playing at some point. In the end it all comes down the person playing and their imagination.
For Flyte: http://www.dikumud.com/everquest.aspx
For the rest:
Stop being dorks to the OP. His/her point was valid. Genre does have a significant role to play in regards to posing a question to developers on matters of game mechanics. For example, you don't see the same combat mechanics in a fantasy game as you do say a space based game (EVE and Jumpgate respectively). Furthermore, the only reason why MMOs have not been innovative in the last half-decade is due to the nature of all coders to this maxim: if it isn't broken don't fix it. Basically, coders don't like to test out new ideas if it hits their bottom line or if their capital investors didn't ask for it. Sadly, to get any attention these days to new ideas, you have to promise big, even if it's an obvious lie (example: We'll have WoW numbers...blah...blah...blah...).
So, if you want innovation in the MMO market, why don't you all learn to code. I plan to work on some basic game mechanic (NPC management and NPC procedural (skill and behavioral) generation) tools to help other developers actually make games that matter. Basically, stop whining and start doing if you want it.
-- Brede
I suppose the concepts I presented could be done originally or un-originally... If you have people making them work with 5 furs, 10 teeth and 15 paws, then you take a concept that has the potential of being one of a kind, and making it cookie cutter main stream. With that said, alot of the games out there surely do have potential of blasting through the iron gate called main stream, but they dare not.
I'll focus on lotro for a sec: Lotro is visually a stunning game, and you dont even need a NASA computer to run it on max settings. However, being a veteran player of EQ2, and having played AO, eq1, swg, eve, ffxi and more, means I have a good foundation to compare LOTRO with - and it's clear to me that they are VERY un-original in their concepting, though they of course have their own flavor variations. They have quests (5 rats, 10 boars, 16 wights, 2 nazgul), and they have crafting (set to 50, press make). If they are to make a concept that is so similar to most games out there at the moment, why dont they at least also copy all the good stuff that the other MMO's have added, like a good LFG/LFM tool, an easy way to handle quests (since its so quest heavy), player housing (every MMO has "future plans" (tm) to implement player housing if they already havent done it) and so on?
Why implement non-original game aspects that every other game has as well, and not give them the pristine tools that those other games have developed over time and make the predictability a little more enjoyable to handle?
We could use a J.R.R. Tolkien of the MMORPG world to write us a wonderfully rich and full game that breaks the mold and sets a new standard.
Your asking the wrong question.
You should be askign was there EVER a truly original MMORPG ... and the answer is No, none that have been popular.
Asking for this is not the answer .. just ask for a good refreshing mmo.
to be honest atziluth know his stuff , other posters here don't even know what he is talking about, hes been around a while and his game exp is showing.
He is right. I could say WOW is original, and believe many many people feel this way, because thats the game they started with. The OP said the same about EQ1, and he is wrong.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Classes, starter quest were the core element in each MMO, that emphasize the job role in a party. Just make your facts right before posting. Its shameful to yourself.
All canceled. Waiting on Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning.
And the games you stated were copied from MUD and pencil and paper RPG. Fantasy genre came a very long way even before MMO or games were introduced.Classes, starter quest were the core element in each MMO, that emphasize the job role in a party. Just make your facts right before posting. Its shameful to yourself.
Jeez folks....lighten up a bit.... OP makes a few mistakes in his original post.... and he's got folks calling him stupid, shameful, etc...... These are forums...if you disagree with someone, or feel they've posted in error, lots of ways to correct them besides namecalling...I'd love to see a new concept brought to the table, trouble is that innovation is risky, and not likely to come from a big budget MMO house. W'll need to see some sort of Indie developer to make some smaller game that exceeds all expectations to make the larger houses sit up and take notice....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm sorry but I wasnt starting a "the autobiography of the MMORPGs" thread. What has the pen and paper origins of the MMORPG games of today got to do with any of this? We are used to actually having rubber tires today, and we wouldn't want to buy a car with stone wheels... I live and play in 2007, although I HAVE played MMORPG continually for 13-14 years now. One of the first ones that got me hooked was Anarchy Online, but if a game launched today that was exactly like that, I wouldnt touch it with a stick. "Been there, done that". If you are older than me, then eq1 or AO was already a copy cat. And I can clearly see that for a fresh MMO'er, WOW will be something NEW, cause he/she has never played a game like that before.
I guess I'm crying for the next generation MMORPG - I dont want to be stuck in this squared box of the MMORPGs of today! This is me - so dont say I'm wrong, cause my own needs/feelings cant be wrong since I'm not claiming to speak for anyone else but myself. So you do me the favor and speak for yourself as well.
The OP simply doesn't know like, wow fanboys simply do not know.
Yet he is here makign a statement, which attacks all other fantasy games after EQ1 becuase eq1 was the "original" concept... When in fact it wasn't. It was as original as DAOC, Ac, and maybe even WOW. The entire concept of this post is flawed.
Like i said before just ask for new game play and experience, not a truly original idea, becuase these are hard to come by.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Never.
Joking. Sorry had too hehe.
I feel very similar to this i want to a new experience. My first 3-d mmo was 10six.
I don't remember my first mud thou druis was the best.
I can remember calling up local BBS's and playing lotrd.
Table top and what not.
Still much of it was similar but all of it different eought to entertain for a bit and thats what is important.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Sadly, the trend I've noticed over the years...the big companies, i.e. sony and..well...sony pretty much make the same game over and over with new graphics, riding the horse til its dead.
smaller independent gaming companies come out with fascinating ideas for a game, but they don't have the money to back it, so they bring in a big name company to help them, then said company takes over the games, kills all the new ideas, and makes a new clone of their other games, which in the end becomes a craptastic game instead of something potentially great...i.e. Horizons.
The last big name company I've seen put out a decent game was Blizzard...
Vanguard had potential honestly..until the got SOE to "publish". We all saw what happened then...the game blew hard and sony bought it, just like every other game out there that sucks.
Honestly, VG isn't a bad game..there's just not much about it different than wow or eq2. Slight differences only. It may as well have been an expansion for eq2, would have saved a lot of money. I think halfway through development the VG guys already knew they were gonna sell out to sony completely. They went for the quick buck, I have no respect for them anymore, they owed their fans more than that. It's sad really.
Unless someone who has a zillion dollars collecting dust gets a bug up his arse and decides to develop a game for the hell of it..you won't see anything deviating radically from what is already out there...companies just can't take the risk of losing millions of dollars on a gamble.
D.
The OP simply doesn't know like, wow fanboys simply do not know.
Yet he is here makign a statement, which attacks all other fantasy games after EQ1 becuase eq1 was the "original" concept... When in fact it wasn't. It was as original as DAOC, Ac, and maybe even WOW. The entire concept of this post is flawed.
Like i said before just ask for new game play and experience, not a truly original idea, becuase these are hard to come by.
Please, I didn't say exactly that. I said that MY experience began with EQ1, and most every game I've played after is based on principles I recognize from that game. Wether EQ1 coped from other games (I know it did, although I didnt play those games) or not, is really irrelevant to the point im trying to make. Arguing historical facts really only serves to undermine the true topic which I am trying to put forth.
when games like wow stop hitting the shelves