Ever wonder what its like to ask some questions at a atheist convention from a christian perspective.. all I can say is OMG.. WOW!! www.youtube.com/watch
Silence, you heretic! We believe in Sonic, he is being held captive by Dr Robotnik! His evil lair has been located in Iran. Grab your pitchforks and lets go
The logic debate has NEVER been beaten in the past. The tag line of Atheism is STILL "Human Reason".
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
All of this debating is pointless, sometime between now and a few thousand years from now Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and all the other -isms will be relegated to the ash heap of history, just as every other religion before them, and humanity will have moved on to new, more outlandish spiritual beliefs.
It is inevitable.
(Well, maybe not Hinduism, that one seems to be all but unmovable)
I saw this progeram on discovery or national geographic', don't excactly remember, but there once was a bishop who calculated when the creation of earth began. he calculated that the world was created in about 4000 b.c., and he only used the bible. Should we teach childeren the morality's of people who are either bad mathematicians or liers?
All of this debating is pointless, sometime between now and a few thousand years from now Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and all the other -isms will be relegated to the ash heap of history, just as every other religion before them, and humanity will have moved on to new, more outlandish spiritual beliefs. It is inevitable. (Well, maybe not Hinduism, that one seems to be all but unmovable)
True. I just hope I can succeed in launching my Cthulhu cult before the Scientologists can replace Christianity as the new dominant religion.
All of this debating is pointless, sometime between now and a few thousand years from now Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and all the other -isms will be relegated to the ash heap of history, just as every other religion before them, and humanity will have moved on to new, more outlandish spiritual beliefs. It is inevitable. (Well, maybe not Hinduism, that one seems to be all but unmovable)
Amen (no pun intended)
Atheist are not bothered if a God exists or not, the existence of God is my last thought.
I am more worried about my bacon getting crispy , than the existence of God.
I don't have any problem in religious people believing and professing their religion to people.
It only become an issue when religious people start discussing and analysing the matter in a rational way, trying to make it more "fact friendly".
Religion is based on belief, don't try to make it a science, because it ain't.
Classic religions will die eventually, like politheistic religions died few thousands years ago (except Induism and few others).
They will be replaced by cults like Scientology.
Yes religion evolve.
At the beginning it was many Gods, it started with animals, then human like (romans, greeks).
Then the monotheists religion sprung up (Judaism and all its derivates).
Next wave of religion will be based on Aliens.
Yes religion evolve, because is not based on actual facts but miths and superstitions, so it changes and evolve with the human being (and mind).
If religions and the existence of God was a well proven fact, you wouldn't have millions of religions, you will only have one religion, "THE RELIGION".
Unfortunately this is not the case, so I ll stay atheists til someone comes up with facts and concrete proof of the existence of any God.
Or til all religios people make up their mind and agree in an common God and a common Religion.
Til it happens, religions (all) cannot be taken seriously.
The logic debate has NEVER been beaten in the past. The tag line of Atheism is STILL "Human Reason".
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
The logic debate has NEVER been beaten in the past. The tag line of Atheism is STILL "Human Reason".
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Something beyond our current understanding had to either always be there, or come from nothing. We don't know the answer to that , But that is still no reason to say "Well, it had to be god", Because if, withing your reasoning, God can come from nothing or has always existed, then so can the entire universe. The difference? The world today without a deity that controls all makes complete sense. the world with a deity doesn't. The problem isn't as much of a problem for theists because theists simply ignore the question.
The logic debate has NEVER been beaten in the past. The tag line of Atheism is STILL "Human Reason".
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Something beyond our current understanding had to either always be there, or come from nothing. We don't know the answer to that , But that is still no reason to say "Well, it had to be god", Because if, withing your reasoning, God can come from nothing or has always existed, then so can the entire universe. The difference? The world today without a deity that controls all makes complete sense. the world with a deity doesn't. The problem isn't as much of a problem for theists because theists simply ignore the question.
Well put. The problem is, you're discussing this with people who MUST have an answer to everything right now, NOW NOW NOW I say. And if you can't provide that answer, well, they've got some made up story that can take the place of a lack of answer until science fills in that gap as well.
In this case, it is very probable that we'll never know the truth of how our universe came into existence. But wouldn't it be cool to find out? That's why I won't settle for bedtime stories with answers for children.
The logic debate has NEVER been beaten in the past. The tag line of Atheism is STILL "Human Reason".
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Mhhhh why?
Will it change the way I look if we discover that the Universe has been created by a giant fart rather than a pink fairy?
We live and that's it.
We might be curious how the Universe started but it is not something that drive atheists lives.
Atheism is not a Religion, you cannot put the same emphasis on what religious people consider essential issues like "who created us" or "why we are here".
Atheists don't really care about those issues, we just don't believe in God, that doesn't make us part of an alternative religion, so we don't have to justify nothing in order to support our "religion".
We might be interested on this kind of issues on a philosophical base, but it's just curiosity.
We acknowledse that we live, and we try to make our life better, we don't necessarily care where we came from or why we are here.
For religious people, on the other hand, it is necessary to make sure that the God theory is not discredited, since they live by their religion, and the existance of God is necessary for the surviving of their religion itself.
So if someone ask Cristians specific questions on their faith, try to answer the specific questions if you are so strong about it, instead of changing the subject by turning the same question to an atheist.
are believers believ in santa claus too? just a question
Silence, you heretic! We believe in Sonic, he is being held captive by Dr Robotnik! His evil lair has been located in Iran. Grab your pitchforks and lets go
atheists never bother others, we merely act in self defence
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
So it's Saturday morning, the only day of the week i get to 'lay in' and not have to be rudely woken up by my alarm clock. 9:30 am there is a persistant knocking on my door that wakes me, due to the insistent nature of the knock, I arise to investigate. It's a smart neat moustachioed man with accompanying threadbare, pamphlet toting lackey and a small blond girl.
Looks like I've been Jehovah'ed, Witness stlyle.
Later in the day. I took my son into the city centre. Walking through one of the larger shopping districts we happen upon a stout, red faced woman proclaiming at the top her voice to no-one in particular about 'entering heaven' and 'salvation in the lord'. My son is only 8 and he found her pretty intimidating as we quickly passed her by.
We moved further up the main street and are then faced with a very wobbly little old lady with a microphone and an very distorted PA system, mumbling through a layer of ear splitting distortion about 'being a true christian'. She was complemented with a small army of very dubious looking gentlemen handing out leaflets, a couple of them looked disturbingly like the phot-fits you see of pedophiles on crime bulletins.
We were forced later to head back the same way, but luckily cut through a shop to bypass the senile dalek and her leering cronies. The spot previously occupied by the 'scary shouty lady' is no occupied by 'utterly terrifying shouty man'. This guy is in his fifties wearing a very sober suit, very 'normal' looking. Except he is literally bellowing at the top of his voice, gesturing wildly and lunging at people to punctuate and emphasise his ranting about 'our wickedness'.
Next week I'm going to go door to door, waking people up to inform them about my beleif system and its benefits. Then in the afternoon im going to go into town with a loudhailer to preach athiesm to the masses on the main street. Anybody care to hazard a guess how long I will last before I'm arrested?
The logic debate has NEVER been beaten in the past. The tag line of Atheism is STILL "Human Reason".
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Something beyond our current understanding had to either always be there, or come from nothing. We don't know the answer to that , But that is still no reason to say "Well, it had to be god", Because if, withing your reasoning, God can come from nothing or has always existed, then so can the entire universe. The difference? The world today without a deity that controls all makes complete sense. the world with a deity doesn't. The problem isn't as much of a problem for theists because theists simply ignore the question.
You are suggesting that the Universe could have possibly always existed in some form or another? Steady State theorists died out LONG ago...So I can only assume that you are saying that the Universe only existed in one form or another (IE point of high density ala the Big Bang)
Of course, humans don't understand everything...but any logical person will tell you that matter does not just appear out of thin air, and I highly doubt that any new physical law or property that we discover will ever allow for the formation of matter from nothingness. What I gather from your post is that such a process could possibly exist? Your argument that a world today without a deity isn't based upon anything but your own opinion, so I won't bother going into that with you. Obviously theists don't ignore the question, since we're having this discussion.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
The logic debate has NEVER been beaten in the past. The tag line of Atheism is STILL "Human Reason".
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Something beyond our current understanding had to either always be there, or come from nothing. We don't know the answer to that , But that is still no reason to say "Well, it had to be god", Because if, withing your reasoning, God can come from nothing or has always existed, then so can the entire universe. The difference? The world today without a deity that controls all makes complete sense. the world with a deity doesn't. The problem isn't as much of a problem for theists because theists simply ignore the question.
You are suggesting that the Universe could have possibly always existed in some form or another? Steady State theorists died out LONG ago...So I can only assume that you are saying that the Universe only existed in one form or another (IE point of high density ala the Big Bang)
Of course, humans don't understand everything...but any logical person will tell you that matter does not just appear out of thin air, and I highly doubt that any new physical law or property that we discover will ever allow for the formation of matter from nothingness. What I gather from your post is that such a process could possibly exist? Your argument that a world today without a deity isn't based upon anything but your own opinion, so I won't bother going into that with you. Obviously theists don't ignore the question, since we're having this discussion.
There could indeed very possible be a physical law that explains the very origin of the universe. As I said, we don't know yet, or pehaps we will never know. But again, that does not mean that a deity that ignores all laws of physics exists, and if we start with complete ly ignoring physics, the" theories" about the origin of the universe are endless. We have only explored so little of the universe, its really no surprise that there is no scientific expelenation yet.
If I pray for WAR to come out sooner than it's scheduled, will God make my prayer come true? It's not like it would hurt anything if he did. Maybe if I pray really hard! Like hard enough to make my face turn red.
I have a feeling that atheists in school are horrible with any public speaking or debate courses.
We had an atheist at my high school who was very outspoken about her beliefs. She was a member of the debate team along with one of the most hardcore Christians I have ever known in my life. After a few debates they were dating and she was no longer an atheist.
I think most Christians would call her a whore.
I think most Athiests would call her a whore.
And he must have alot of cash or a monster size penis with "The converter" tattooed on it in inch high letters?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I have a feeling that atheists in school are horrible with any public speaking or debate courses.
We had an atheist at my high school who was very outspoken about her beliefs. She was a member of the debate team along with one of the most hardcore Christians I have ever known in my life. After a few debates they were dating and she was no longer an atheist.
I think most Christians would call her a whore.
I think most Athiests would call her a whore.
And he must have alot of cash or a monster size penis with "The converter" tattooed on it in inch high letters?
None of the above.
She hadn't even kissed anybody until her junior year of high school...and they were (are) both defenitely virgins.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I think it's great that people have something to believe in. It's hard enough in this world without having some form of hope to cling onto. Having said that, the Christian at the meeting the OP has linked to is nothing but an "Agent Provocateur" i.e. he's a plant that is meant to disrupt the meeting. Imagine if I walked into my local church and started to interrupt the priest who was preaching at the time??
I'm all for people having a religion, but what I'm not for is religion taking the high ground and condemning people for having a different set of beliefs or ideals. This goes for all the major religions, Christianity, Islam and judaism.
I wouldn't use such a strong term as 'immoral' in terms of raising your children as christians if you are christian or as atheists if your an atheist. However, I do think its the wrong way. If you were raised as a christian by your parents you never had any choice and vice versa on the atheist side. Now, here I'm not talking about x-mas, Easter and so forth - I'm talking about all the core values being drilled into you. How can you be a true christian if you never made the conscious choice to become one? If it was just given to you by birth and you never stopped to question it? Before people start going crazy, I'd like to say the same scepticism applies for the atheist situation of course.
Tired and disillusioned by the major religions and their similarities when it comes to hypocracy and self-glorification, I have turned towards the past. I worship the ancient pagan beliefs of my country, gods such as Tor, Loke and Odin. You may start laughing, but what does that say about your level of religious tolerance or rather the lack thereof?
Here's a list to make you ponder (it's at the top of my head and very rudimentary).
- The Crusades, year 1095-1291 approx. Ok, so now we have a serious problem brewing in Europe. Warlords, kings and independent city states are all fighthing each other. The in-house figthing together with massive pressure on the borders of Europe is making the Pope nervous. Why fight each other when we can fight a common enemy? It's the oldest trick in the book, Bismarck was quite fond of it as well when he tried to establish the Second Reich ( no, not the Third, the second, you fool). Here's the deal: go to the "Holy Land" and conquer and kill and in return we'll give you "remission of Sin" a.k.a. you're off the you're-going-to-hell hook. The crusades had the skin of a religious movement, but make no mistake - it was a matter of political security/stability, economic concerns and multi-national alliances.
- Jihaad. The modern day islamic fundamentalists use the term as an excuse to attack the Western way of life. In the old days in meant that you could only wage war on your own soil which meant that Jihaad was purely restricted to defensive warfare if your country was invaded. But if you dig even deepper Jihaad wasn't that either. The direct translation means "struggle" and what the Koran actually meant was the struggle between the good and the evil potential within each human being. So wait a minute here?! Jihaad was highjacked to mean something else? That's right. Somehow, Jihaad went from your own personal struggle to become a better person to knock off the Twin towers and get the US and us Europeans all worked up.
- The Inquisition. Need I say more? Jews/Arabs expelled from catholic Spain, that is, if they managed to survive. 6 million women burned on the stake accussed of witchcraft ( granted, over a longer period, the middle ages). Say Earth isn't the center of the universe,you get burned. Say the Earth is round, not flat, you get burned. You get chucked at the stake for alot of things so better keep quiet about using healing herbs on that wolfbite from last month - that's witchcraft !
- Taliban. Ok, history is full of religious morons running around telling you what to do and what to think, but these guys are close to bringing home the prize. During their reign of terror in Kabul, Afghanistan, it was forbidden to laugh, dance and sing, but get this- it was also forbidden for the kids to play with their kites !!! Lol, yeah, kites represent a seroius undermining of the religious faith.
Wow, that wasn't a thoughtfull reply, more like a rant. However, next time you feel the need to look down on somebody because they differ from your beliefs stop and rethink.
Crap, maybe bhuddism is the only non-violent religion with no need to spred to the masses. Then again, some scholars argue that the inherent characteristics of Bhuddism lends itself more to philosophy than religion.
OMG there was a great (boring) show on KQED (PBS) about this very thing. it discussed what atheism is and its history and of course got into short histories of religion focused primerily on monotheistic religions but it delved into greek and roman mythology when it discussed philosophers like aristotle, plato and sophecles. (please dont knock my spelling and grammer, we all know its bad) anyway it was a great show and had so many quotes from many historical figures like many of the founding fathers of the U.S. very interesting and i think there is another part coming, you can read about it here:
Comments
just a question
Silence, you heretic! We believe in Sonic, he is being held captive by Dr Robotnik! His evil lair has been located in Iran. Grab your pitchforks and lets go
of course we believe in Santa clause..!!! But.......img254.imageshack.us/my.php
Santa! Noooooooooo!
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
All of this debating is pointless, sometime between now and a few thousand years from now Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and all the other -isms will be relegated to the ash heap of history, just as every other religion before them, and humanity will have moved on to new, more outlandish spiritual beliefs.
It is inevitable.
(Well, maybe not Hinduism, that one seems to be all but unmovable)
----------
Life sucks, buy a helmet.
I saw this progeram on discovery or national geographic', don't excactly remember, but there once was a bishop who calculated when the creation of earth began. he calculated that the world was created in about 4000 b.c., and he only used the bible. Should we teach childeren the morality's of people who are either bad mathematicians or liers?
True. I just hope I can succeed in launching my Cthulhu cult before the Scientologists can replace Christianity as the new dominant religion.
Amen (no pun intended)
Atheist are not bothered if a God exists or not, the existence of God is my last thought.
I am more worried about my bacon getting crispy , than the existence of God.
I don't have any problem in religious people believing and professing their religion to people.
It only become an issue when religious people start discussing and analysing the matter in a rational way, trying to make it more "fact friendly".
Religion is based on belief, don't try to make it a science, because it ain't.
Classic religions will die eventually, like politheistic religions died few thousands years ago (except Induism and few others).
They will be replaced by cults like Scientology.
Yes religion evolve.
At the beginning it was many Gods, it started with animals, then human like (romans, greeks).
Then the monotheists religion sprung up (Judaism and all its derivates).
Next wave of religion will be based on Aliens.
Yes religion evolve, because is not based on actual facts but miths and superstitions, so it changes and evolve with the human being (and mind).
If religions and the existence of God was a well proven fact, you wouldn't have millions of religions, you will only have one religion, "THE RELIGION".
Unfortunately this is not the case, so I ll stay atheists til someone comes up with facts and concrete proof of the existence of any God.
Or til all religios people make up their mind and agree in an common God and a common Religion.
Til it happens, religions (all) cannot be taken seriously.
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
lol, Draenor..
Well put.
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Something beyond our current understanding had to either always be there, or come from nothing. We don't know the answer to that , But that is still no reason to say "Well, it had to be god", Because if, withing your reasoning, God can come from nothing or has always existed, then so can the entire universe. The difference? The world today without a deity that controls all makes complete sense. the world with a deity doesn't. The problem isn't as much of a problem for theists because theists simply ignore the question.
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Something beyond our current understanding had to either always be there, or come from nothing. We don't know the answer to that , But that is still no reason to say "Well, it had to be god", Because if, withing your reasoning, God can come from nothing or has always existed, then so can the entire universe. The difference? The world today without a deity that controls all makes complete sense. the world with a deity doesn't. The problem isn't as much of a problem for theists because theists simply ignore the question.
Well put. The problem is, you're discussing this with people who MUST have an answer to everything right now, NOW NOW NOW I say. And if you can't provide that answer, well, they've got some made up story that can take the place of a lack of answer until science fills in that gap as well.
In this case, it is very probable that we'll never know the truth of how our universe came into existence. But wouldn't it be cool to find out? That's why I won't settle for bedtime stories with answers for children.
- Mal
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Mhhhh why?
Will it change the way I look if we discover that the Universe has been created by a giant fart rather than a pink fairy?
We live and that's it.
We might be curious how the Universe started but it is not something that drive atheists lives.
Atheism is not a Religion, you cannot put the same emphasis on what religious people consider essential issues like "who created us" or "why we are here".
Atheists don't really care about those issues, we just don't believe in God, that doesn't make us part of an alternative religion, so we don't have to justify nothing in order to support our "religion".
We might be interested on this kind of issues on a philosophical base, but it's just curiosity.
We acknowledse that we live, and we try to make our life better, we don't necessarily care where we came from or why we are here.
For religious people, on the other hand, it is necessary to make sure that the God theory is not discredited, since they live by their religion, and the existance of God is necessary for the surviving of their religion itself.
So if someone ask Cristians specific questions on their faith, try to answer the specific questions if you are so strong about it, instead of changing the subject by turning the same question to an atheist.
Silence, you heretic! We believe in Sonic, he is being held captive by Dr Robotnik! His evil lair has been located in Iran. Grab your pitchforks and lets go
atheists never bother others, we merely act in self defence
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
So it's Saturday morning, the only day of the week i get to 'lay in' and not have to be rudely woken up by my alarm clock. 9:30 am there is a persistant knocking on my door that wakes me, due to the insistent nature of the knock, I arise to investigate. It's a smart neat moustachioed man with accompanying threadbare, pamphlet toting lackey and a small blond girl.
Looks like I've been Jehovah'ed, Witness stlyle.
Later in the day. I took my son into the city centre. Walking through one of the larger shopping districts we happen upon a stout, red faced woman proclaiming at the top her voice to no-one in particular about 'entering heaven' and 'salvation in the lord'. My son is only 8 and he found her pretty intimidating as we quickly passed her by.
We moved further up the main street and are then faced with a very wobbly little old lady with a microphone and an very distorted PA system, mumbling through a layer of ear splitting distortion about 'being a true christian'. She was complemented with a small army of very dubious looking gentlemen handing out leaflets, a couple of them looked disturbingly like the phot-fits you see of pedophiles on crime bulletins.
We were forced later to head back the same way, but luckily cut through a shop to bypass the senile dalek and her leering cronies. The spot previously occupied by the 'scary shouty lady' is no occupied by 'utterly terrifying shouty man'. This guy is in his fifties wearing a very sober suit, very 'normal' looking. Except he is literally bellowing at the top of his voice, gesturing wildly and lunging at people to punctuate and emphasise his ranting about 'our wickedness'.
Next week I'm going to go door to door, waking people up to inform them about my beleif system and its benefits. Then in the afternoon im going to go into town with a loudhailer to preach athiesm to the masses on the main street. Anybody care to hazard a guess how long I will last before I'm arrested?
Athiest propaganda my backside.
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Something beyond our current understanding had to either always be there, or come from nothing. We don't know the answer to that , But that is still no reason to say "Well, it had to be god", Because if, withing your reasoning, God can come from nothing or has always existed, then so can the entire universe. The difference? The world today without a deity that controls all makes complete sense. the world with a deity doesn't. The problem isn't as much of a problem for theists because theists simply ignore the question.
You are suggesting that the Universe could have possibly always existed in some form or another? Steady State theorists died out LONG ago...So I can only assume that you are saying that the Universe only existed in one form or another (IE point of high density ala the Big Bang)
Of course, humans don't understand everything...but any logical person will tell you that matter does not just appear out of thin air, and I highly doubt that any new physical law or property that we discover will ever allow for the formation of matter from nothingness. What I gather from your post is that such a process could possibly exist? Your argument that a world today without a deity isn't based upon anything but your own opinion, so I won't bother going into that with you. Obviously theists don't ignore the question, since we're having this discussion.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
And it will forever be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life.
really? why so?
The thought that a god must exist to explain life of today, fully ignoring the next question that has to be asked: "Who made the designer?" is not reason.
For the simple reason that something cannot come from nothing, unless that something is not bound by the constraints of human reason and understanding. The question of who made the designer is more a problem for atheists than it is theists anyway, since you don't believe that there is a designer, you need an entirely different theory about how matter can come from nothingness.
Something beyond our current understanding had to either always be there, or come from nothing. We don't know the answer to that , But that is still no reason to say "Well, it had to be god", Because if, withing your reasoning, God can come from nothing or has always existed, then so can the entire universe. The difference? The world today without a deity that controls all makes complete sense. the world with a deity doesn't. The problem isn't as much of a problem for theists because theists simply ignore the question.
You are suggesting that the Universe could have possibly always existed in some form or another? Steady State theorists died out LONG ago...So I can only assume that you are saying that the Universe only existed in one form or another (IE point of high density ala the Big Bang)
Of course, humans don't understand everything...but any logical person will tell you that matter does not just appear out of thin air, and I highly doubt that any new physical law or property that we discover will ever allow for the formation of matter from nothingness. What I gather from your post is that such a process could possibly exist? Your argument that a world today without a deity isn't based upon anything but your own opinion, so I won't bother going into that with you. Obviously theists don't ignore the question, since we're having this discussion.
There could indeed very possible be a physical law that explains the very origin of the universe. As I said, we don't know yet, or pehaps we will never know. But again, that does not mean that a deity that ignores all laws of physics exists, and if we start with complete ly ignoring physics, the" theories" about the origin of the universe are endless. We have only explored so little of the universe, its really no surprise that there is no scientific expelenation yet.
Lol, actually back in my old High School, it was the other way around. ;d
If I pray for WAR to come out sooner than it's scheduled, will God make my prayer come true? It's not like it would hurt anything if he did. Maybe if I pray really hard! Like hard enough to make my face turn red.
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We had an atheist at my high school who was very outspoken about her beliefs. She was a member of the debate team along with one of the most hardcore Christians I have ever known in my life. After a few debates they were dating and she was no longer an atheist.
I think most Christians would call her a whore.
I think most Athiests would call her a whore.
And he must have alot of cash or a monster size penis with "The converter" tattooed on it in inch high letters?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
We had an atheist at my high school who was very outspoken about her beliefs. She was a member of the debate team along with one of the most hardcore Christians I have ever known in my life. After a few debates they were dating and she was no longer an atheist.
I think most Christians would call her a whore.
I think most Athiests would call her a whore.
And he must have alot of cash or a monster size penis with "The converter" tattooed on it in inch high letters?
None of the above.
She hadn't even kissed anybody until her junior year of high school...and they were (are) both defenitely virgins.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
A touchy subject, to be sure.
I think it's great that people have something to believe in. It's hard enough in this world without having some form of hope to cling onto. Having said that, the Christian at the meeting the OP has linked to is nothing but an "Agent Provocateur" i.e. he's a plant that is meant to disrupt the meeting. Imagine if I walked into my local church and started to interrupt the priest who was preaching at the time??
I'm all for people having a religion, but what I'm not for is religion taking the high ground and condemning people for having a different set of beliefs or ideals. This goes for all the major religions, Christianity, Islam and judaism.
I wouldn't use such a strong term as 'immoral' in terms of raising your children as christians if you are christian or as atheists if your an atheist. However, I do think its the wrong way. If you were raised as a christian by your parents you never had any choice and vice versa on the atheist side. Now, here I'm not talking about x-mas, Easter and so forth - I'm talking about all the core values being drilled into you. How can you be a true christian if you never made the conscious choice to become one? If it was just given to you by birth and you never stopped to question it? Before people start going crazy, I'd like to say the same scepticism applies for the atheist situation of course.
Tired and disillusioned by the major religions and their similarities when it comes to hypocracy and self-glorification, I have turned towards the past. I worship the ancient pagan beliefs of my country, gods such as Tor, Loke and Odin. You may start laughing, but what does that say about your level of religious tolerance or rather the lack thereof?
Here's a list to make you ponder (it's at the top of my head and very rudimentary).
- The Crusades, year 1095-1291 approx. Ok, so now we have a serious problem brewing in Europe. Warlords, kings and independent city states are all fighthing each other. The in-house figthing together with massive pressure on the borders of Europe is making the Pope nervous. Why fight each other when we can fight a common enemy? It's the oldest trick in the book, Bismarck was quite fond of it as well when he tried to establish the Second Reich ( no, not the Third, the second, you fool
). Here's the deal: go to the "Holy Land" and conquer and kill and in return we'll give you "remission of Sin" a.k.a. you're off the you're-going-to-hell hook. The crusades had the skin of a religious movement, but make no mistake - it was a matter of political security/stability, economic concerns and multi-national alliances.
- Jihaad. The modern day islamic fundamentalists use the term as an excuse to attack the Western way of life. In the old days in meant that you could only wage war on your own soil which meant that Jihaad was purely restricted to defensive warfare if your country was invaded. But if you dig even deepper Jihaad wasn't that either. The direct translation means "struggle" and what the Koran actually meant was the struggle between the good and the evil potential within each human being. So wait a minute here?! Jihaad was highjacked to mean something else? That's right. Somehow, Jihaad went from your own personal struggle to become a better person to knock off the Twin towers and get the US and us Europeans all worked up.
- The Inquisition. Need I say more? Jews/Arabs expelled from catholic Spain, that is, if they managed to survive. 6 million women burned on the stake accussed of witchcraft ( granted, over a longer period, the middle ages). Say Earth isn't the center of the universe,you get burned. Say the Earth is round, not flat, you get burned. You get chucked at the stake for alot of things so better keep quiet about using healing herbs on that wolfbite from last month - that's witchcraft !
- Taliban. Ok, history is full of religious morons running around telling you what to do and what to think, but these guys are close to bringing home the prize. During their reign of terror in Kabul, Afghanistan, it was forbidden to laugh, dance and sing, but get this- it was also forbidden for the kids to play with their kites !!! Lol, yeah, kites represent a seroius undermining of the religious faith.
Wow, that wasn't a thoughtfull reply, more like a rant. However, next time you feel the need to look down on somebody because they differ from your beliefs stop and rethink.
Crap, maybe bhuddism is the only non-violent religion with no need to spred to the masses. Then again, some scholars argue that the inherent characteristics of Bhuddism lends itself more to philosophy than religion.
Religion - opium for the people? /discuss
I'm totally entering this frey way late, but oh well. Luckily this is going to be short and sweet.
Why do people care so much what the next man believes or disbelieves?
Is that athiest going to destroy your foundations of faith if you are a true believer? Probally not.
Is that (Insert religion) going to affect the way you rationalize things? Probally not.
Thats all.
OMG there was a great (boring) show on KQED (PBS) about this very thing. it discussed what atheism is and its history and of course got into short histories of religion focused primerily on monotheistic religions but it delved into greek and roman mythology when it discussed philosophers like aristotle, plato and sophecles. (please dont knock my spelling and grammer, we all know its bad) anyway it was a great show and had so many quotes from many historical figures like many of the founding fathers of the U.S. very interesting and i think there is another part coming, you can read about it here:
http://www.kqed.org/programs/tv/program-landing.jsp?progID=16571
GOOD GOD!!!!!
Not another religious topic
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand