Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
What do people really want from MMO's
Torak
Member Posts: 4,905
I've been around awhile and noticed that no matter where you go, especially on this forum site, no one is happy with anything. There is a direct critizism no matter what a game does.
You can read everything from, the quest are boring, there is not enough content, the game is a grind, the game is to easy to level, the game has no depth, the "graphics" stink, the animations look bad, the animations look good, there is PvP, there is no PvP, the PvP has no concequences, the PvP is to harsh, Its raid centric endgame, there is no endgame, its a sandbox, its linear....If you read through many post, many contradict one another in the SAME game.
But many seem to agree that something is "missing" from current MMO's...what?
So enough whinning about why everything else sucks..... What is it we are looking for in an MMO? Or is it we are just to many differnt types of players hanging around one generic forum?
Is there a "holy grail" MMO? Probably not as we all have different definitions of what makes a good game but I thought I would ask as most threads are nothing but game bashes lately.
Comments
Good question and one that would take more thought then I can muster at 10:20 am
Give me a little time and I'll post a long reply worth reading.
I do not believe we will see any "holy grail" mmo, ever. Because no game can please everybody. Most important is whether you have fun playing it or not and dont let others influence you.
For me coming to this forum is to find out info about the games im intrested in and also read about some others view on it. And its ultimatly up to me to weigh the pros and cons of whether to play or not.
Currently enjoying WoW, tons of things for me to do at 70, though its buton bashing, linear quest etc.... but im enjoying it..
RIP Orc Choppa
i would have to agree with you whenever i look at the new games coming out like 2 moons/dekaron, Aion, Fury. everyone says something different but its all bad... its another stupid asian grind, i hate pvp and this game is all about pvp, the graphics suck.
well like you said you cant please everyone but jeez... if you dont like grinding... then dont play a MMORPG CUZ THATS HOW YOU LVL, if you dont like pvp THEN PLAY RUNESCAPE, if the graphic suck.... well its not real life (bad comeback but o well) its just a pet peev i have when ppl bash a game because they dont like it cuz of this... but i have bashed Oblivion a few times cuz i thought the gameplay was horrible
And most ppl that bash games... are alrdy playing one they like... its wierd
I find it interesting that (at least here) you see an endless amount of threads on LotRs for example, that basically rip it to pieces but very little of it is actually constructive. At least with Vanguard, not to attack the game, but it had obvious problems. The game itself could have been fantastic if it was complete and not a technical mess. But when it comes to LotRs (and I'm using LotRs as an example because its "hot" right now) many of the critizism are much more ambiguous. Things like "its dull" "its shallow" are common but how so and more importantly, what would anyone have done differently?
Take any game for that matter.
I enjoyed the intense politics and clan relations of Lineage 2 but the grind was more then most humans can endure for long. I really like skill systems over class and I also like a fair amount of control ofver stats with characters, something you almost never see in MMOs today. I really like the story quest system of LotRs but I hate kill task in all MMO's. The sandbox aspect of MMOs is their strongpoint IMHO, player driven economies, player towns, castles, player property of any sort but I don't like games that leave ALL the content up to you or leave you high and dry to grind like Ryzom and SWG did at launch. Sandbox qualities are a vanishing if not almost exstinct quality in todays MMO's. The very things that build and bind game communities together, the ability to create something, are all but gone now.
Some people have said both WoW and LotR have taken the best aspects of MMO and rolled them into one game (first WoW almost 3 years ago and now LotR according to some critics) But what if the "best" aspects of todays MMOs are necessarily the best they can be? They are just the best we have because no one has taken the time or energy to "think outside of the box" and come up with something new or interesting.
Food for thought but it looks like no one is hungry /shrug.
The thing is that people who are happy with a game aren't really going to spend as much time raving about what a great game it is, especially if its been out a while. They are likely to spend their free time playing the game instead of whining about why it sucks. That said, its pretty much two different groups, there are those who are happy with their game and might occasionally defend it, but they will spend less time on the boards than those who have nothing better to do than point out all of the flaws they seen, warranted or otherwise (the second group.)
http://mmoreinsight.wordpress.com -- A Glimpse Into The World of Massively Multiplayer Games.
I'm no MMO vet, but I was around for pre CU SWG. And I loved that shit. I realize that I loved it because of all the player content. Something many MMOs are lacking nowadays. I've had a few 'Holy Grail' MMOs, but they always end up vaporware. I want a twitch/skill based MMO with no safe zones, where players have a say in who lives and who dies. Where intelligence, real human intelligence, comes into play. Anticipating what your enemy will do next, hoping you're right, because you don't have some printout of the guys stats. I've yet to find the One, but I keep coming back and looking around whenever something new piques my interest. For now, though, I'll get my fix with Mount and Blade. A game that truly has something I want.
Well, obviously I can't say what others want out of their MMO gaming experience. However, for me it has always and will always be a matter of community. A sense of belonging. For example, Pre-CU SWG (yes here we go again, heh) was buggy, in need of dev created content and a haven for exploiters. Now, this seems like a game you should avoid, but the community at the time(at least on my server) was second to none and vets took newbies under their wing without ever giving it a second thought. People joined hunting groups not only because it served a direct purpose, but because they wanted to get to know you.
In my case it's all about the feeling. Some like eye candy graphics, some like sci-fi others fantasy etc. etc. But for me it's about logging in and spend time with online friends that are fast becoming RL friends. Although, I would say that games that strongly focus on quest-orientated activity will always hamper social activity because people will feel compelled to finish the quest they're on and the next and the next... Quests are a nice tool for devs. It gives the new player a sense of purpose in the game and is also a nice way to propel a storyline forward. But - when quests begin to be the sole form of game activity then the vitality of the game and the potential player creativity fades faster than you can say " cancel account".
I WANT A OLD SCHOOL EQ SERVER BACK, THE REST OF THESE MMOS HAVE BEEN CRAPPY BORING EASY AND SLEASY.
I think in MMOs people really want the chance to make themselves into someone important and of power or fame, while competing with several thousands other people. Probably just as important, people in mmos want to feel connected to the community and the world. To actually achieve this with current technology, publisher influence, financial limitations is almost impossible. Until this is possible, the only real avenue for a developer to take is to target fun things to do that take time and allow the player to do them in a large multi-player environment.
There are actually a few hindering qualities to mmos that also helps limit the effect. One such thing is guilds. Although its great that there is an in-game method to group people together. It severely hampers the influx of new players because they are not apart of the klick of guilds. In many cases after a few months of a game being around, the world for a new player may seem anti-social.
Blizzard's answer to this dilemma is probably one of the best and most ingenious solutions which in my opinion helps the game be so popular. There are guilds seeking fame and importance within a server, but often times they are too late or could not compete. So Blizzard opens up a new server and the guild moves there in order to try again. Because of this newer members have a chance to become apart of a guild that is trying to grow its fame and needs more people from the people who didn't switch, which helps with the anti-social factor. Also the older members get to compete again for the chance to be the best. Then all Blizzard does is merge a few older servers and does it again.
The short answer is fun. But what is fun varies from person to person which is why you have many people searching for their kind of game and unhappy with the current selection in the marketplace.
What's missing from the MMOs on the market today is originality.
The problem people are clearly having is not that the mechanics of this MMO or that are "bad", but rather, that they have seen it all a bunch of times before. I've said this elsewhere -- with both LOTRO beta and Vanguard, it took me like 10 minutes to learn to play the game, because both games play exactly like other games I have already played. The hotbars work the same way... the controls are the same... the quest systems are similar... the classes are re-named versions of the old stand-bys... the equipment is all the same sorts of things... it's all the same as pre-existing games. There's nothing different, so you know it before you've even finished installing the game.
For example, the "tanker" type character will have good defense, low damage, big bulky, protective armor... Your quests will generally be "go here and kill this/these things and come back to me when done." You will gain a new skill every couple of levels, give or take, and it will be the same skill as all the others of your class learned that level. Some of the time this will be a truly new skill, but much of the time it will be a "higher level version" of previous skills (Punch 1, then Punch 2, Punch 3... etc). The skills will be pretty colored squares or circles on your hot bar. When you click a skill, that skill will darken or shrink or animate in some way to let you know it is "used", and then it will have some "cool down" period while it recharges, and you can't use it again. You will therefore want to "line up" sufficient skills on your hot bar to create a "combat chain" -- a set of skills whose animation, cool-down, and recharge times are such that you can continuously act in combat.
Everything is the same in these games. The engines play the same. The UIs look the same. The keybinds are all the same. The character classes mimic each other. The loot, the treasures, the con system... everything is the same. Play one MMORPG, and you've basically played them all.
And this is the problem. Gamers historically play games for a while and switch because they are looking for new experiences. They don't want to keep playing the same game over and over again. If they did that, they'd not need to buy the new game. If you are happy with WOW, you keep playing WOW. If you leave WOW, you presumably are tired of it -- you are looking for something new. But after trying the various offerings out there, you will find that there is nothing new, because they are all the same. WOW copied the pre-existing ones with minor modifications, and the newer games all copy WOW, with minor modifications. Play one, and you've played 'em all.
What players think is "missing" therefore, is the newness, the originality, the freshness -- in short, the excitement of learning a new system. We want to actually need the tutorial (which we don't these days in MMOs). We want to actually have to learn a new system. We don't want to just re-hash what we've already played. What's missing is the sense of doing something new and different for a change.
C
I could copy and paste everything I want in a game, I write enough of my ideas in various threads so it wouldn't be hard, but to answer what games are missing is simply a machine that can read your thoughts and actualize them in code.
The problem is that MMOGs, unlike single player and regular multiplayer games, are played by the type of people who play PnP games and other roleplaying games, the difference is when your playing a PnP game you can change the world to be what you want while adhering to basic rules. Or, like me, doing free-form roleplay, where the only rules you have to follow are the ones of common sense and logic, essentually we are only limited by our imaginations.
The online world seems to be a great place to plays games like this, more people, more ideas, more fun, plus we have graphical representations of our ideas, we can finally see our stories, characters and imagination represented in a virtual world. Unfortunatly games can't revolve around a single player, there are comprimisses to reach a wider audience, and technological limitations that would require a warehouse of supercomputers and the fastest internet connection ever to play.
MMOGs, and especially RPGs are filled more with this idealism, they are not just some game, they are supose to be living virtual world right, a place with epic adventure, exchange of ideas, massive battles, and where you can practically be yourself or someone else in a land not your own.
I am not saying idealism is bad by any means, it just might be the thing that is keeping some of us down when it comes to MMOGs.
I feel like starting a Free-form RPG now.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
I think one of the problems of most MMORPGs is combat.
If people can bot their way to the highest level then something is seriously wrong with the game. It means the combat is so paint-by-numbers that a program can do it.
If grinding is going to be a large part of the game (and it is in most MMO's) then people should have fun doing it. Make it more involved. I think games should try for more twitch-based combat instead of solely stats and numbers based. Think like Kingdom Hearts, .hack//GU, or the Phantasy Star Online games. Hell, combos would be nice. Something to break up the monotony. That's why I hope we get more console-based MMORPGs just to break up the formula.
That's my suggestion.
What is it that I want in an MMO?
I posted this in anoter forum but my ideal MMO would have these qualities:
NOTE - *Now before anyone starts bashing on this list - This is MY opinion of an MMO game I would love to play in. I am not saying this is what all gamers want to see. This is what I want to see in an MMO.
1. No levels - Period. No grinding, no "kill 100 rabits so you can level to kill 100 dogs". Totally take away the premise of levels, skills, etc and let you decide what to do. Basically leave it all in the hands of the players as to the profession/trade/job they want. If you want to pick up a gun and shoot, you can do it. You may not be good at it, but with practice you can get better (Think FPS). Want to make something? Pick up a book in game and /or talk to someone and learn what components, tools and equipment are needed to make it.
2. Classes - *See levels* Same premise, there are no defined classes....ever. Your "class" is defined by what you carry on you.
3. Make the game make you work - What I mean by that is say you are on a ship like "Serenity". You don't just hit a button and go, make the switches and nobs actually do somethin like in the shows. As a player gets used to using them they will get better at flying it. If something breaks they know what to fix.
4. Make the ammo do the damage, not the weapon - I hate games that put stats on weapons and not ammunition. Offer different kinds of ammo for different jobs (AP, HET, FMJ, etc.) with different stats. Basically make it like real life.
5. Everything is breaks/destructable - Nuff said.
6. Create player dependance - Yeah you can create 10 tanks and roll through a neighboring town, destroying everything and everyone in your path, but that area basically becomes a wasteland and unless you bring folks in to rehabit, rebuild, etc. it will stay like that. Create a situation where folks form alliances, guilds etc based out a need for financial gain and security.
7. Death Penalty - Make it harsh to die so we don't end up like in SWG/WOW/Etc "Hey could you kill me so I don't have to drive back to town". This is a tough one to fix or make right.
8. Consequences for your actions - You act like a jerk and attack a unarmed village you better be ready for the villages friends who have atomic weapons and nuke you into the ground...loosing everything you have and being blacklisted from most communities.
9. Limited resources = limited items. Resources are also not easy to aquire and rares are.....rare.
10. No one enters the game as a hero - You have to make that name for yourself.
Is it we are just to many differnt types of players hanging around one generic forum?
Absolutely, but it is always good to get others opinions or ideas on a game. It opens up possibilities never thought of. Of course, on here, it usually deginerates into bash fest after about the second post.
Is there a "holy grail" MMO?
Yes and No.
Yes - A "Holy Grail" game is possible for a person.
No - There will never be for all MMO players. There are too many likes and dislikes for a company to possibly cover in one game.
Essentially, you are going to have this issue no matter what game is out there. I saw some of the LOTR posts you were referring to Torak. You could take those same posts, remove LOTR and slap on any other MMO name. Its up to each individual person to pick through the chaff and find the good nuggets of info on here and any other MMO site.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"