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Why does Alliance lose 90% of all PvP matches?
PrebThor
Member UncommonPosts: 452
By writing this, I do not mean to be disrespectful - it is simply a few personal observations from what I experience when playing World of Warcraft. I know there are good players on the Alliance side and you know who you are, so I'm sure you are as baffled as me about this. Okay, here goes:
I've been playing a lot of matches in the battlegrounds (10-19 (twinked), 20-29 (twinked), 30-39 and some in 40-49) and there are a few things I've noticed during my frustrating time as an Alliance player:
Alliance:
- seldom / never protects their flag or their flag carrier (in Warsong Gulch)
- claims resources and then leave them (in Arathi Basin)
- seldom / never listens (does not read BG chat)
- gets very active in BG chat when accusations / insults among "teammates" start
- teamwork is poor / non-existant
- spends a lot of time trying to kill for honor in the middle of the BG's
- [UPDATE] shows very little initiative - if any
Horde:
- protects their flag and their flag carrier (in Warsong Gulch)
- claims resources and then defend them (in Arathi Basin)
- has an aggressive play style which succeeds in most - if not all - matches
- often has players that perform poorly by themselves so they team up to become stronger (teamwork)
- has healers...
I have been told that PvP gets better at level 70 for the Alliance, well does it? My buddy plays on Horde side and confirms that Horde is indeed not doing too well at level 70 ([UPDATE] at least not in Alterac Valley). This does not explain the poor performance from Alliance in the 69 other levels. What does Horde players have that the majority of Alliance players haven't got (and vice versa)? Is it the attitude - the "killer instinct"? Skillz dat killz? Neither I or the Alliance players I've discussed this with can find any rational answer to the question. A little input from both sides would be nice!
(I am sooo getting lynched for this) 
Comments
My own personal observations are Alliance in general are much more greedy, selfish and arrogant, in ALL aspects of game (grouping, looting and even AH prices).
Because who wants to be good when its way more exciting being EVIL
i played both sides and a lot of true points but it also depends on what players are in the bg at the time there is the occasional good alliance team the last time i played WoW i was playing alliance and i would usually defend the flag unless we already had enough people there(rare) and i would always try to set up a team but everyone would refuse to listen travel by themselves instead of in groups and just get destroyed.
most of the time i won in alliance was when i was in the bg with like 2 or 3 of my friends and we were in vent making it easier. But horde also has their far share of cocky players such as in lvl 19 bg i remember it was me and 1 friend me on my shaman him on his war(we were on alliance) and this twink orc hunter constantly tried taking us both on at once instead of having his team help him, neither of us were twinks and everytime we took him down, although also in my experiences i did did notice a lot more poor teamwork and cocky twinks on the alliance side so much to the point where whole alliance team was twink and couldn't beat the horde with only a couple twinks because the alliance refused to work as a team.
Im with u man,
When im allience in BG i seem to always lose.. like 1 out of 10 matches we win..
So i get pissed and go on my horde
.
------
WoW Char:
lvl 70 Orc Warrior - Archimode
lvl 62 Undead Mage - Daggerspine
lvl 25 Blood Elf Pally - Daggerspine
Alliance is terrible, I have had the Horde flag inside the Alliance base but couldn't score because the Horde had our flag and the other players can't find the Horde who has got our flag and most of the time no one sticks around to protect me so some 3 to 4 Horde players turns up and kills me and we lose again.
Will never be Alliance again ever!
I'm a Undead Warlock now and I love it.
its ecause the alliance is big....
zy capedbandit
this is my take on it. now, it is a generalization, and i knwo not everyone fits this, but here goes;
alliance: are players that want to be good, be heroes. save the day, PvE mostly.
horde: like the more confrontational side of it, be the bad guy, PvP, and they focus more of their ablility in that direction.
Its mostly just different types of players that are drawn to each side, and the Horde type players generally have more experience and aptitude for PvP. does this make sense to anyone else?
I think its more of that the Alliance doesn't cooperate that well (besides 61-70 AV).
The fact that a full Alliance twink team can't take down a Horde team which only has a few twinks is almost impressive. This once again supports the theory that Alliance has the gear, but not the (s)kills and certainly not the ability to co-operate, which is quite sad.
Your example with the flag sounds too familiar. Alliance flag is in the Horde base, but for some reason Alliance seem to think that by killing their enemies in the middle of the battlefield will solve the problem and their flag will magically return to base. Actually, it could be of great help if Alliance actually got kills in mid-BG, but one quick glimpse at the scoreboard will in most cases show the opposite results: Top Horde HK's = 70+, Top Alliance HK's = 20+ (if the match even lasts that long). I believe the correct term to use here is "owned".
This is a good question. Why does the Alliance lose so much.
I think the answer to this question is: The Paladin.
How can you expect to win a fight if you have Paladins, they just suck so bad.
And dont get me wrong on this WoW folks, im not busting on the WoW Paladin, im busting on all Paladins.
I will have to disagree on this. A paladin is hard to kill, a twinked paladin is an absolute nightmare to kill and two paladins at once - twinked or not - is next to impossible to kill. I don't know, maybe you were being ironic?
I think it might just be the killer instinct, players drawn to evil characters tend to 'want it more' hahaha. During my time playing WoW I had maxed a Tauren Druid, Blood Elf Shadow Priest and a Gnome Warlock. My Horde players had waaaaayyyy more kills... and Warlocks are rediculously powerful (not that Shadowpriests or Druids arent haha). I think I had more bloodlust as my Horde characters, I would hunt the Alliance down and slay them regardless of how many there were or what level.
I remember solo questing around 50-60 and a group of the same four Alliance would just keep coming at me over and over again only to be wiped out. (Speaking of which, I love fear haha). So teamwork doesnt necessarily help. But I would notice that the Horde were more likely to come to my aid if I was outnumbered in battlegrounds, whereas the Alliance would run straight past. (Maybe because Druids and Priests are thought to be healers -they wish- but im going to go with the comradeship explanation). My group always had my back when I ran in like a crazed banshee.
No, i was not being ironic, just stupid.
I truely hate Paladins (in all games) so i figured i would lay the blame at their feet.
I am a Shadowknight at heart.
Hehe.
I sometimes play wow during the middle of the night and early morning and we seem to perfrom a LOT better at those times. The only conclusion i can draw is that all of the younger players are in bed and we are left with only the hardcore, more mature, student, unemployed players. This makes me think that alliance have an overall much younger playerbase, possibly due to the legolas factor. Im sure there are good young players but i think at that age they dont really take much notice/care about tactics or teamplay. Its all pew pew pew, ur all dead now, lolA|Z I QOWNSWER1!!!1. Also, very few players ever go after the healers first and end up trying to take down a prot specced warrior whos being healed by 3 healers, lol gl with that. I also have a horde rogue and can confirm horde is just overall better at pvp, except when the map is against them ie: AV.
Dead on! Yes, the "magic" seems to be happening at night. I'm getting flashbacks from Guild Wars now: "Kill the healers first, THE HEALERS! Oh, for *beep*'s sake!" *sigh*
Took my alliance paladin 39 to WSG last night. Played 6, won 6 :-)
Still, you're right - horde does win more. And I've experienced it from both sides of the fence. Here are a few reasons Horde win more -
- Average individual pvp skill is often higher. Mini-skirmishes that often occur in battlegrounds, particularly AB. These may be 2v2, 3v3 or whatever. Horde seems to win more of these because their players are often more skilled.
- In a horde team, most players generally know what to do. People don't need to be told to head towards the flag, or to let the druid 39 pick up the flag instead of the hunter 31. They just do these things. Whilst a lot of alliance players don't really know what to do and end up either rushing towards the nearest horde, or following around other members of their own team like sheep. I don't think most of the alliance consciously HK farm (at least below 60). They just don't know what they should be doing. A side effect is that those members of the alliance who do know what they are doing, and go for flags or defend or whatever, often find themselves alone. They are heroes through necessity, not choice.
- Expecting to lose. Many alliance players have lost so often that they expect to lose again. Hence they don't really try to win. I've seen alliance teams literally give up in AB as soon as the Horde secured 4 bases, even when the alliance were 200 points ahead! In AV alliance seems to take the attitude "we're going to lose anyway, lets just knock off as many NPCs as we can for honour before the game ends", the result being that Horde bother to defend in AV, whilst any alliance player who defends is condemned as a noob who is slowing the game down and limiting other peoples honour farming.
- AV bias. The alterac valley battleground is biased towards horde. For example SF GY is closer to the horde starting point, 2 towers guard the horde choke point instead of 1 for alliance and in the generals room horde defenders can hide behind their general whilst alliance players can't hide behind theirs (since the horde general starts in the middle of the room, the alliance general at the back).
- Effects of PvP related gear. Whichever side wins most gets more pvp related gear faster, hence has an advantage, and will therefore keep winning. This seems to be particularly a problem at max level.
- More hard-core PvPrs. Horde has people who play for pvp and nothing else. Alliance players generally play for both pvp and pve. I saw this when I visited 51-60 AV a month or two back. Almost anyone on the alliance side with a rank had already levelled themselves out of the bracket. Meanwhile every other Horde team seemed to come with a Warlord or High Warlord attached. This vast imbalance in gear and experience obviously created a bias.
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I guess it is easy why Alliance loses more.
Alliance never go in a group to claim the flag/claim the resource. Everytime I am left behind to guard the flag, 3 or more comes to kill me and gets the resource so easily.
I guess i can say, Alliance is more after topping the HK count in the game then to win
My perspective as a gamer that has Multiple characters including dedicated PVPers, not really Twink status I feel but characters with no intent to level to PVP in give groups. I have 19 pally, 29 hunter, 39 hunter .. All horde. RAMPAGE battle group , Kael'thas server USA
I find that War song gulch the alliance has the most likly hood to win, tho maybe it dont happen that often, this is due to WSG needs minimal team effort. But you can win with one really super geared out twink to be a hero.
The only way I see Alliance ever win Arathi basin is if there is a gross out numbering ...15 - 5 of players. and even then as soon as the empty slots fill I seen our horde side make a come back from 1500- 100 to us winning casue we came in rolled'em 5 capped and held all 5. Granted that was a hard fight and we didnt even realize we had the chance to win till the 1800 alarm sounded. mind you that was one time recently, and not everytime....
Now Altrec Valley I see is drastically different. I see a hunter killer team of rogues on alliance side that goes straight for the win, while Horde is forming team and fighting there way in decisivly taking postion after postion as a actual military force would, BANG alliance wins from a few rogues sneak in and complete mission. Which is a more covert yet still used tactic and very vaild and effective.
Id have to say over the differance is attitude. See if your alliance your a good person, the hero. you are here to save the day. Thing is in PVP you cant do it alone, and when you have 10-15 people who all want to be the hero, well.. thats just too many chefs in the kitchen.
Where as us horde, we are more of a mind set, we must do what it takes to win. If that means working as a team, ok. If it means me as a Hunter I jump into enemy FR and throw traps and try to lure the guards out so our stealth druid can sneak in when the enemy is killing me . Fine I'll make a big fuss with traps arrows and dynamite and get you all to chase me down and kill me, so our druid can get the flag and score, I died but I get the 3 marks when its done as well, thats a good deal.
That is the differance, We dont want to be the hero we want to WIN.
Miataka (+many sub variation of that)
~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA)
MiaTaka
~ RF On-line (Fire Server)
-Mia- takahashi
~SWG (Europe-chimaera)
Miataki Valeinca
~EQ 2 (everfrost)
MiaTaka Soyinka
~Second Life
In my EU battlegroup, the sides seem evenly matched. Before TBC I also had an "alternative main", a dwarf hunter playing on an RP-PVP realm. I remember Alliance being stronger in that battlegroup.
I've never noticed the difference between Horde and Alliance, but I guess that's just me. Then again, I usually play in pre-mades and win anyway.
In my battlegroup allies often win Altertac and rarely win the other BGs. I guess thats because there are more hardcore gamers playing the horde and the BG Instances are imbalanced. I wonder what would happen if random teams, controlled by ai, would play against each other. I guess it would not be a 50/50 result.
Certainly not, as Horde racial abilities are more PvP orientated.
Since I was lucky enough to have both a Alliance and Horde on the same battlegroup, I have seen that the Horde will win 90%+ in everything but AV, if I play on my Alliance character, but that it varies slightly when I play my Horde character. Back before BC, I could go days without winning a WSG on my Horde character. Unless it was a WSG weekend, I would normally end up on a 3-4 man Team vs 10 Alliance.
kinda takes the player out of player Versus player, leaving you with Versus... and thats basically called watching anime.... not sure but I think they have a tv station that will have exactly what you are looking for
Miataka (+many sub variation of that)
~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA)
MiaTaka
~ RF On-line (Fire Server)
-Mia- takahashi
~SWG (Europe-chimaera)
Miataki Valeinca
~EQ 2 (everfrost)
MiaTaka Soyinka
~Second Life