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Soulbound and Binding?
Wickersham
Member UncommonPosts: 2,379
Any word on soulbound, BoP, or BoE looted or crafted items? I personally hope they are not in this game, after all, a sword is a sword.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Comments
I hope they are... If not then people would be able to get end game gear without ever doing it.
It would attract even more goldselling and buying, one of the worst things for a good server economy.
I have no idea why you would want such a thing
I hope they think of a better system, the current WoW system is pretty fooked up if you ask me.
So many people are stuck in WoW mentality they just dont know any other way to do a game. They just cant imagine there has or ever will be any other way to run a game.
Being where I am and reading forums and listening to people write on various pages, after 15 years of online gaming it amazes me how wow has polarized the masses in such a fashion.
It's most likely that they'll have a BoP system.
This is funny enough not for the sake of solving RMT issues,
but rather a lore situation...
This goes mostly for greenskins and Chaos but most likely applies onto others too..
Let's take the greenskins as the prime example:
When an Orc has a weapon that is bigger than other Orcs, he won't give it away.
Orcs are all about fighting, be it the enemy, themselves or anything else, they're alive for the fight.
Hence the chance of an Orc helping another Orc by giving away his giant axe...... Is not very big.
Same goes in some ways for Chaos, apart from most items actually being stuck on them.
Armor for example does in many cases have to be ripped from the body and torn into bits to change it, hence being useless for others.
Then again, for the rest I don't know,
I support a non-BoP system in that case.
As it seems now, gear isn't That much of a deal in WAR anyways (In terms of the 'original' Warhammer there's actually hardly any items that differ from all others. No real Artifacts or such.. Well, on or two artifacts, but nothing a simple grunt would ever get a hold of)
So if they just stick true to the IP, a BoP-system would be nigh useless anyways.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Well, can't say what Mythic is thinking about in this regard. In DAOC most items that drop are not BOP.... (some are BOE though) so you can actually buy most of the best gear in their markets. I seem to recall Trials of Atlantis expansion changed that some, items from those quests could only be earned and leveled up by people who ran them, (Heroics might be like that now) but it didn't apply to all gear.
I know when I was there recently (Dec-Jan) I was able to purchase some really nice gear for my archer, (of course at high cost) and yes, DAOC has issues with gold selling..... there's a reason why housing lots on the classic server Gareth sell for between 14-22 million gold, and its not due to natural inflation.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I favor Diablo II as a trade system, but they have to severely kill, maim and rape every possible hack to make it work properly.
Hmm, I might not be as old as you are, but I think you're wrong. I browse these forums daily, actively, as I do my work from home and I have to say, there are people caught in WoW, but there are also plenty of people that remember the old ways.
As to the comment about the Orcs and Chaos, he's absolutely right, an Orc is only a good Orc, if every other Orc, is weaker then he is. You really don't want to ask an Orc for his weapon, because he will hand you the sharp side.
If you can speak of Sharp side..Orcs tend to just slam their weaopons in the enemy..regardless of sharp..
Soulbinding is ridiculous, and I hate it. that said, you need it for several reasons people above me have pointed out if the gear has a serious effect on the overall power of a character, as it does in many games.
What would be a better system is if gear only had a mild or nonexistent effect on over power, then it doesn't matter what you have; it would be about aesthetics. But this doesn't alwaysw go over well, because essentially it eliminates one way to better your character.
No matter what, they have a need to limit the reusability of powerful items of any kind in order to promote a healthy economy. If you didn't, you would have a huge ammount of hand-me-downs that would alter the balance of the gameworld.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Well WAR will use a different Approach:
Every Armor, most Weapons will be Class restricted. And since every class is one-race-only in WAR, that's pretty much it.
When you find a Robe, it's a SHaman robe, or a Zealot Robe, others can't wear it.
When you find a Hammer, it may be a Hammerer's Hammer, or a Warrior Priest Hammer. When you find a Helmet, it's a Chosen One Helmet, or a Black Orc Helmet, or a Choppa Helmet.
I doubt that Mythic, with this system in place, won't add Mechanics so that you for 90% of the time find Gear you can use, if you run around as shaman, probably most, if not all, gear you find will probably be shaman gear. If you run around as a Group of Chosen, Choppa, and Magus, you'll probably only find Chosen, Choppa and Magus Gear.
Or they take a whole different approach, and let the enemies drop tokens, which you can trade in for class-sensible gear.
Meaning: For example every Dwarf Hammerer you kill drops a "Hammer Talisman", every Dwarf Runepriest you kill drops a "Dwarfen Rune", every Ironbreaker a "Dwarfen armor plate" and every Engineer a "Dwarfen Screwdiver"...or simply every dwarf drops a "Dwarfen Beard Hair"...you collect them, go to a friendly NPC, give him for example 25 "Dwarfen Beard Hairs" and you can choose between Items you want to have for it.
The Token System also erases the Problematic of: "Why on earth should a Warrior Priest run around with Chaos Armor?" or "Why should a Hammerer carry around a Orc Choppa?", but the downside would be that trading would basically be non-existant, apart from Crafting Materials and Products...
I like the class-specific idea, and they should leave it at that.
In many MMOs it never makes sense as, hey, why shouldn't that warior be able to use that other warriors axe?
In WAR, it's just not that easy... Apart from the orcs... It's always as easy as "Duz it make gud clobbin'? MINE!" but, yeah, apart from them, I can't imagine a chaos magus trying to put on a goblin-sized robe of pity nature crap..
Too much pride within the ranks of Warhammer.. Apart from orcs... But I guess some have to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of the game..
Or, they just let orcs use any friggin weapon they want. With limited usage ofcourse.. That magic staff of fireballs and utter doom is just a stick to an orc..
Hmm, different systems according to lore.... Why not?
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Back on topic:
I hope gear rots to garbage, there is no epics and like i said above no BoP or BoE. The reason is simple: I do not want to play a heavy PvP game where some people can hide behind really great armor. I want to win or lose because I myself was better or worse.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Being able to get end game gear without ever doign it is exactly what pvp focused games are about, pvp, not pve. If you have to first pve for end game gear then it's a pve game, no matter what developers claim.
At any rate, there isn't any end game gear, likely it will be like daoc where you have a bunch of nice gear, but not one item that is much better than anything else for each slot. Also, war will likely future stat caps since that's one of the best designsof daoc.
Some items might be soulbound, mostly from quests, boe is very doubtful (only one expansion for daoc had boe stuff, and even then for one slot only) and you'll never see bind on pick up items from drops.
being able to farm some mobs/pvp for gold, then go to market and get all the gear you want is what makes pvp game pvp: ability to completly skip pve grinding for items if you so desire.
I already read that there isnt. I'll come back with the quote if i can find it again.
I don't mind BOE, but I really hate BOP. I know that some people will try to ninja BOP items and sell them, but I just hate
having drops going to waste.
I highly prefer BoE to BoP. But if they plan on making uber weaps then I can see they have to do something to prevent widespread use to prevent saturation.
What if instead of uber weaps chars had to rely on weap enchantments, coating them with poisons, placing curses, hexes, scrolls, runes, or spells on them. Something their healer classes can do. And as the class progresses into higher levels so does the power of their weapon applying damage or effects. Maybe at level 4 you could stack some on the weapon? Of course, all of these options may already be present as well as uber weaps I don't know.
====================
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And as I am so must you be,
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I think the reason that is because WoW had a lot of great ideas, just they didn't do everything they could have with them.
And people actually like the ideas that WoW had, just not the direction that Blizzard to decided to take them.
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I think they should have some kind of system to where you can sell items that you have worn, but like they won't be as powerful as when you had them on or something along those lines, its kind of hard to explain. Maybe a system to where you can't just use equipment and then sell it once your done with it. Some kind of hand me down thing where the stats get weaker if you give/sell it to someone?
Not sure how that sounds, but it makes sense to me ~_~
I don't know what game it was where I first heard it, but it feels very LOTR to me. (No is wasn't that game. That game isn't really Middle Earth if you ask me.) I like the idea of choosing a weapon early in the game. You are a warrior. You want to use a sword. You speak with a blacksmith and get a quest. At the end he crafts you a sword just for you, BoP. You get to pick out the look and the feel and everything. Big slow heavy damage beast, or shortsword (maybe dual wield) rapid tiny damage. But then you use that sword. You get to know that sword, and it grows with you. You get used to how it feels in your hand (and this is how real weaponry works) and as you level up it's damage output and speed and everything increases. Maybe (and I am just making this up as a go along) a separate exp system for your weapon and armor. You get weapon exp when you kill something that does (or would have if you are at the cap) and then you can put points into weapon speed or damage or whatever. Obviously the weapon would need a max level too. This would make you feel very connected to this item, and allow dedicated people to have powerful weapons, and be able to get it solo. I would want the weapon to take a great many hours played to get it to the max. You should also obviously be able to get new weapons, but they would be "level 1" weapons and you could level them up also. This would also work for armor and such.
Thoughts?
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I really like the idea of class specific armor, i hope thats the way it goes. In my opinion; gear was a bad move on blizzards part, Your power should be based on how well you play your toon and the choices you have made for that toon, not on your raiding months on end for your tier 3089 which is mildly better then tier 3088 but enough to tip the battle scale in your favor. Thats not saying that gear should be just for looks, i liked Daocs way , loot would add stats but not enough that your entire character is based on it. I hope Mythic keeps the multi spec options in lv path and aswell something similar to RRs, far better way of diversifying characters and weeding out the ubers from the goobers.
"I would want the weapon to take a great many hours played to get it to the max."
Will never work in a pvp focused game. People play it for pvp, not to lvl up items, mythic already tried to pull this off with trials of atlantis expansion for daoc which introduced artifacts which you could lvl up to lvl 10 (at release, took the same amount of exp to get artifact to lvl 10 as it did to lvl 1-50) and they lost half of daoc's population as a result (of artifact lvl'ing and other toa related problems) so don't look for mythci to ever make lvl'able items again.
Thing that made daoc good wasn't that stats didn't add much, they added a lot, but daoc had stat caps. So, difference between a noob who just hit lvl 50 and someone who has the ultimate template was the uber template had more resistsance on it, but they both had 75str/con/etc. So, unless you actually fought someone who used magic damage for which you lacked resistance you were just as good (items wise) as someone with an uber template. In wow, a pve game with no stat caps, the guy with a 125dps raid droped sword will always be better (item wise) than someone with a quest rewarded 90dps sword.
I also like what someone mentioned about hand-me-down items. It was along the lines of that it basically "decays" a bit everytime you hand it down and becomes less effective, maybe to the point where it got handed down so much it was useless. I thought that was a cool concept (sorry, if I don't quote I don't remember the name).
Someone also mentioned SWG (preCU I'm assuming). That system to me was pretty sweet. Gear was gear, not some suped up, magical blaster of pwned-ness. It decayed and you'd need to buy some more or get it repaired via a armor/weaponsmith. It not only benefitted player economy (everything worthwhile was player-crafted) it also strengthened community and you could develop repeat customers and such. If they did use a SWG system, though, I'd hope they leave out the skill tapes and all that crap that made armor basically "suped up, magical pwn-ness" to quote myself (yeah, I know that's bad).
I hope EA Mythic checks these forums, as there are some pretty neat ideas.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Metallica8589/videos?view=0
I agree with you evil on Toa being the downfall for daoc but on your wow comment (and atm i am a wow player) blizzard made WoW a pve templated game but wanted to appeal to everyone else, as I see it being there ultiamte downfall (heh, kinda like germany in ww2, to many fronts) I am a pvp player that doesnt want to grind insta after insta for gear nor do i want to hope in a fight my gear compares so i have a chance to win so if Blizz truly wanted a gear grind game they should have left it as such and kept pvp to duels. Sorry if this doesnt seem releavent to the OP.
I never played SWG, but that seems like a good system. You have a sword. It's just a sword like any other: metal, heavy, sharp. There are different varieties but nothing too powerful. Eventually, like all real swords, it becomes too old and chipped to be worth using and you need a new sword. That would be great for the crafting community and the player economy. I still think there would need to be something to give people something to do with items at the endgame. Maybe "epic" crafting quests to get really great patterns for higher-quality weapons. I wouldn't know exactly what; I'd have to think on that alot more.
On some level though, I don't want permanent decay. If I get something I really treasure, I don't want to get rid of it. That might be because of the good old days when I would get a +5 weapon of wounding and wouldn't ever want to give it away. If you don't have that sort of item in the game, permanent decay would be a great money-sink. I think it could work well if it was implemented right.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
How about;
From character selection your gear is set un-removable it levels with you but with the option of upgrading with items found through vendors, quests and drops. Upgrading can change looks maybe procs and stats aswell. Since Mythic has said your character will change looks through lving, What do you think?
That's how coh/v does it I think. That is you set appearence at the start and then your gear doesn't change. Though I think they added some stat enchancing thingies to enchance your gear. It's not a bad idea ut I am quite sure mythic is going with a regular system as far as items go. Just a matter of weather or not they will have bop/boe for items other than soem quested ones, and weather or not the game will have stat caps like daoc.
PS: Yes, Blizzard is trying to appeal to both pve and pvp layers, still mostly a pve game (even their pvp is based on pve like idea, gear grind) Kind of funny, they annoy raiders with the fact that almost equal gear can be obtained through arenas (so raiders are no longer super leet) and they annoy pvp'ers because you still need gear to compete, even if gear can be obtained through pvp.
I do wonder though, will blizzard try to push pvp with their expansion/patches around the time aoc and war come out to retain some pvp players, or will they abandon pvp and focus on pve in order to keep pve'ers in the game
Take this as you will, but in one of the video interviews (I don't remember which one) Jeff mentioned he hates BoP. So I doubt we'll see much, if any, of that in WAR.
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