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no more rabbit fightin
ASmith84
Member Posts: 979
to put it plain and simple it looks stupid. people jumpin around swingin their swords or whatever hopin it will hit. the weapons dont even touch the opponent which dont even make sense. half the time of pvp battles is just lookin for your target cause everyone hops around so much. having no collision detection makes it even worse. a guy can run up to you hit you and go right through you and you wouldnt even have enough time to turn around to hit him. i have no clue why people like these types of games with rabbit fightin. there is no skill whatsoever its all about luck and chance. a 12 year old can jump and run around clickin abilities to use.
Comments
I was under the impression that actually controlling your character using twitch combat took more skill than auto attacking...
^ Agreed.. I am all for faster paced combat that requires skill.
I am sick of stand in place, tank, spank. Yawn!
even though it looks faster its still all about calculations wether you hit or not even though you are not even close to the guy anymore when you land your blow. this was my point its unrealistic and stupid lookin.
i like collision detection, jumping, and twitch based all rolled into one
I don't mind either way. I usually dislike jumping just for the sole fact of it looking completely goofy and serving no purpose in combat. It would make more sense if characters were able to climb over small obstacles instead of mario brosing over them.
As for wasd vs mouse. I honestly don't see the big deal in mouse control. If the game supports both, I'll use click-to-move just because I prefer having my left hand free for hotkeys. I scratch my head every time I see a doom&gloom forum thread from someone who have just recelntly discovered that some random new game has click-to-move because it "takes no skill". I suppose RTS games and chess takes no skill because it's not wasd or gamepad controlled, as well.
We are saying Click to Move systems suck in this genre..Obviously RTS games need CtM or micromanagement would be totally useless.
My point was that I'm tired of people claiming that mmo's with click-to-move "take no skill" in general. Not all mmo's are about reflexes and hand/eye coordination. They're about longer term strategy and the choices you make. Games like Eve and Shadowbane are more similar to chess than they are to Unreal Tournament. Wether you can move with wasd, shoot in first person mode, or jump is completely irrelevant when the games revolve around politics, economy, and long-term strategic warfare.
rabbit fightin just makes the fight longer for no reason. its just like standin in front of each other and wackin away till one is dead only your jumpin around postponing the hiting.
At first I thought this was going to be about fighting rabbits with swords as a means to an end (namely leveling), however since this discussion is on a topic relating to FPS play I will give my input.
As most know who have played First Person Shooters, bunny hopping is a tactic that players use to exploit lag in order to increase their chances for survival in any given battle. In many games this turns out to be an effective method for evading bullets and other projectiles.
Due to the exploitation, many developers have created mechanisms that seek to thwart this type of behavior, while other developers simply remove the capability for avatars to jump outside of emotes; Guild Wars is a prime example of the latter.
Coming from the perspective of one who would like the capability for jumping to remain a tactical option for getting over terrain and obstacles, I have to bring to the table a solution that acts as a compromise. My suggestion is to allow the possibility for avatars to jump, but make the act of leaping coincide with a loss of endurance, as is natural in the real world.
To put it simply, use an endurance bar or something of similar functionality and for each jump that is made by the avatar, remove a portion of that bar. In this way you could actually add an interesting system that would relegate the height of each jump. For instance, holding down the spacebar (the key almost always reserved for jumping) for an excessive period of time would allow the avatar to reach a height that would surpass a simple tap of the key. Remember that for each jump you also sustain a loss of endurance and you will soon realize that by jumping higher you expend an equal amount of endurance.
My suggestion not only resolves the issue of endless bunny hopping which can ruin many games, but it also adds to the game play mechanic by providing a unique system wherein the player now has the opportunity to master the art of jumping to reach tactical superiority on the battlefield.
Here you go, http://www.progressquest.com/ , that game will suit you just fine. You never have to worry about running or jumping or moving. or people actually getting away from you.
But in all seriousness, i don't see giving players LESS control over their character and how they choose to fight would help anything.
People jump in combat to cause lag, this lag causes them to hit their opponent and your opponent to be out of range when he tries to strike you due to lag. Its cheating, exploiting, whatever. Just like lag casting in DAoC.
Yes, it is a tactic. However, its a tactic that exploits the vulnerable nature of playing online. If your not going to whine about this kind of cheating please stfu about any kind.
Habitual jumping has to do with more than exploiting lag, when you look at the history of online FPS gaming. I used to play Quake a lot, which might be the original bunny-hoppers' game
And there were two major reasons people kept on hopping there:
1. It was discovered that you could travel faster when you strafe-jumped, as well as when you hugged walls while running. So people exploited these two moves. It was a blast catching up with runners without rocket-jumping! After a while, everybody was so used to strafe-jumping to get some extra speed that it became the default way of moving
2. Splash damage was big in Quake. It was especially a winner with people with high latency. You lead your target - even if you miss him you can get something out of splash damage. And it was good for nailing and throwing off those exceptionally erratic-movers.
Now let's go to the other side of the fence: Jumping made you keep the splash damage to a minimum, because there were only so mny walls and players had to fire their rockets onto the floor near where their opponents were (or would be) to get some splash damage. You jumped, you were vertically farther from where the rocket exploded, so you got less damage. So: one more for the bunny-hoppers!
I have to add something else: In MMORPGs, because of all that *melee combat*, I find lag to be actually more harmful to the player than it is in FPSs! That's why I find the idea of twitch-based MMORPGs appalling.
People jump in combat to cause lag, this lag causes them to hit their opponent and your opponent to be out of range when he tries to strike you due to lag. Its cheating, exploiting, whatever. Just like lag casting in DAoC.
Yes, it is a tactic. However, its a tactic that exploits the vulnerable nature of playing online. If your not going to whine about this kind of cheating please stfu about any kind.
Well in FPS sure, but honestly i have played current gem games, such as wow and eq2(amongst others) but i've never benefitting from jumping, imho it's more of a habit then anything else.
It's not limited to lag. Even auto attacks have timers, and the majority of auto attacks will only strike at opponents in front of the character. In some games even special attacks and spells require "line of sight" which may require your character to be facing your opponent.
Jumping around (and running around) an opponent in a MMO pvp fight is a tatic that places your character outside of the frontal attack area while you hopefully keep your character faced toward your opponent. This allows your attacks to land while the other person fails a couple of swings (or 'rounds') during the fight.
That lowers their over all DPS, which of course gives you an advantage.
The one who stands there complaining about their opponent not standing still is the one who routinely doesn't swing at their opponent (and loses).
If it was merely a case of lag then this tactic would work against the person doing the jumping and running. It is not entirely about lag, it's about the skill of controlling your character versus your opponent's skill of controlling their character. If they don't have the skill to keep up with you then they lose.
Certainly lag may make this frustrating for either player, but it has never been considered in any of my PvP fights. However, some people will spam particle effects (or have their friends do so) in hopes of slowing down your PC.
As far as an FPS is concerned, jumping around simply makes it more difficult for your opponent(s) to keep their targetting reticle over your character and may mean the difference between an instant kill sniper hitting or missing you. If they're too lagged to keep up then that's unfortunate and just too bad for them.
Anyway, it's taken me too long to type this and is bed time, so I hope that someone didn't beat me to the punch. :P
~Myskers