Originally posted by Torak I really think that RG has some very interesting things to say about MMO's but I agree that he is talking out his butt lately. He is painting TR to be some sort of MMO renaissance when it not. In fact the psuedo FPS element really is just SWG: NGE in a nutshell. If memory serves, that idea was pretty soundly rejected by the MMO community and about killed the game (among other reasons included in the changes) SWG is enjoying a slight resurgence NOt because NGE has gotten better / improved but because they have changed alot of the mechanics BACK to the old way. IMHO, TR is heading for trouble, not Auto Assault scale trouble or technical disaster scale trouble like Vanguard but acceptance trouble as they are promising something the game is not. The problem in part as I see it with MMO's is this: The SAME guys (and I wrote this before a few years ago) who started the genre are still making and controlling the developement of it. MMO development has not changed because the same people are making the same games with improved graphics. Where is all the fresh new talent? Where is the new next generation of designers? The old guard is still calling all the shots and that is one of the core issues with the genre. The same people are basically still controlling Turbine, SOE, NCSoft, Mythic. There is no influx of fresh new ideas. Dinosaurs still rule our world.
Very interesting insight, and I definitely agree.
I think the problem is more with the 'risk vs reward' system involved with the investment side of things, that makes this happen.
If you look at it, and you'll read this everywhere: publishers rule our development. You could have the best game in the world, but if you don't have a publisher or funding, good luck to you. Which is where it all turns into one big cycle of doom.
'Risk VS Reward' tells us that the more risk we take, the more reward we could gain, but the less the chance of that happening. So, essentially, everyone is taking the 'safe' route, and investing in proved practices, and people who have been around forever, and may offer better insight.
Again, as you stated, the problem is the same ideas float around forever, and get reused, so we keep feeling like we're playing the same game.
BUT the biggest problem lies here:
There have been a bunch of insurgences of new companies, with new ideas, and new people, coming up. They have thought they could take the 'easy' route, and not get the 'old school' funding, and find private investors of their own, had to cut schedules short, and eventually... well, eventually we had games like 'Seed', 'The Saga of Ryzom', and many others, who had great ideas, but fell short because of lack of funding, so the need to press release dates was too harsh.
Now, i'm not saying similar things wouldn't have happened if they had been with some big investor that pushed schedules, but I'm just saying, this is our outcome.
Things are in a big cycle right now, and I really wish we could all fix it, but really, we just have to do what we know best: support the games that deserve it, don't buy the games that don't, and maybe they'll take our hints from now on.
TR is a step back as far as mmorpgs go in my opinion. Firstly it pretends to be an fps but it really isn't, it's a first person rpg set in a sci fi universe. Secondly it is mainly a PvE game, I guess good ole British forgot what made UO so much fun (hint - starts and ends with a P)
The graphics are pretty cool but it is mainly you shooting npcs in an rpg style miss or hit system over and over and over again. From what I'm hearing the game esentially comes down to only 2 classes and is pretty much a grind.
Garriot hasnt done anything good in ages and i'm afraid he doesnt have anything new or good to offer the mmo community.
At first glance Tabula Rasa doesn't really have a lot of appeal to me. I'll look into a bit more, but just from what I've seen it doesn't look that promising.
correct assesment - its a step backwards from UO eq, etc.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Very interesting insight, and I definitely agree. Thanks I think the problem is more with the 'risk vs reward' system involved with the investment side of things, that makes this happen. If you look at it, and you'll read this everywhere: publishers rule our development. You could have the best game in the world, but if you don't have a publisher or funding, good luck to you. Which is where it all turns into one big cycle of doom. I agree that publishers are an issue, they are in most businesses of this type, however when you look at companies like NCSoft or SOE, companies that control their own fate and understand their impact on the fate of others (Vanguard for example) why do they allow it to happen? I truely believe SOE saw Vanguard coming and allowed it to happen. I was a beta player for months and I saw it coming.... and I'm an idiot.... Maybe I should be in charge over there. 'Risk VS Reward' tells us that the more risk we take, the more reward we could gain, but the less the chance of that happening. So, essentially, everyone is taking the 'safe' route, and investing in proved practices, and people who have been around forever, and may offer better insight. Again, as you stated, the problem is the same ideas float around forever, and get reused, so we keep feeling like we're playing the same game. BUT the biggest problem lies here: There have been a bunch of insurgences of new companies, with new ideas, and new people, coming up. They have thought they could take the 'easy' route, and not get the 'old school' funding, and find private investors of their own, had to cut schedules short, and eventually... well, eventually we had games like 'Seed', 'The Saga of Ryzom', and many others, who had great ideas, but fell short because of lack of funding, so the need to press release dates was too harsh. And that is really unfortunate. The Ryzom of today is still not the Ryzom I was reading about and waiting for when it was in development. Its unlikely it ever will be. Seed, although I would probably never have played the game I can see the potential for it. In fact one of the core issues with MMO's is they are combat centric and becoming even more combat centric as time goes on. Now, i'm not saying similar things wouldn't have happened if they had been with some big investor that pushed schedules, but I'm just saying, this is our outcome. Things are in a big cycle right now, and I really wish we could all fix it, but really, we just have to do what we know best: support the games that deserve it, don't buy the games that don't, and maybe they'll take our hints from now on. We can only look to the future. Yuppers, because "today" in MMO land its a wash out lol, we have to settle for what they give us. It just boggles the mind that most MMOs released in the past 5 or 6 year actually have less features, less depth, less scope and less complexity then the original games like UO, DAoC and AC for example. I really hope that MMORPG's can "pull it together" I really believe this genre has great potential.
considering the fact that games have only recently become popular (by recent i mean around 2000) and the MMO market only took off after WoW in 2004 i expect it would not have changed much. i do however see in the next few years with DX10 and more funding that more diverse MMO's will be made.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
we always talk about the next big mmorpg and the next generation mmorpg..
i dnt think it will happen quite like that, I have been playing mmorpgs sicne EQ was first released.. sadly I missed out on UO not sure if i could get into it now..
Anyway to me there never seems to be any great leaps forward with each so called generation.. usually jsut better graphics and a few extra features.. ok look at the up coming AoC sure it looks really nice and has a very nice combat system and maybe a few other extra things.. but is it gonig to be that different from other games.. i dont think so... WAR again sure its gonig to be a bit different as its PVP based.. but is it gonig to be that different form others.. nope.
these games evolve very slow.. really not much has changed since the days of EQ... but why should they change that much? people enjoy the way MMORPGs play otherwsie there would not be a market... ok it has been flooded with some really bad apples.. but there are quite a few really enjoyable game.. but i dont think any mmorpg will totally change the way mmorpgs change... I would like to see more sandbox and skillbased mmorpgs myself but still thats not anything new really...
Very true, although UO was the first massively popular mmo, EQ really took it one step forward by bringing the genre into the mainstream. Ever since the most popular games have been a very short throws away from EQs gameplay. (Dont mention AC cause it was never on top)
First there was Everquest, then there was DaoC, now its WoW and the difference is really more in the refinment of the original game with added features. WoW is only revolutionary in its sucess not in the game itself. When WoW goes under don't expect the next juggernaut to be that much different.
"TR is a step back as far as mmorpgs go in my opinion. Firstly it pretends to be an fps but it really isn't, it's a first person rpg set in a sci fi universe. Secondly it is mainly a PvE game, I guess good ole British forgot what made UO so much fun (hint - starts and ends with a P)
The graphics are pretty cool but it is mainly you shooting npcs in an rpg style miss or hit system over and over and over again. From what I'm hearing the game esentially comes down to only 2 classes and is pretty much a grind.
Garriot hasnt done anything good in ages and i'm afraid he doesnt have anything new or good to offer the mmo community."
The game is still in closed beta and not due for release for soem time.. so i would think the classes are still very much being worked on as well as the rest of the game... and there should not be any info coming out abotu this as people who are in the beta have agreed to the NDA..
Yah well, helps in having friends who are in BETA I guess. Friend made me a 20 minute vid of him playing, the game itself is extremely well polished for this stage of beta. So at least if you are hyped about the game I can tell you it's going to look and play sweet :P
Actually there is/was a pseudo UO clone, the Japanese Gundam mmorpg used the same skill system and while it doesn't have true FFA PvP, there was some great world PvP to be had and if your mobile suit got blown up you lost everything on the suit and the suit itself. The reason I say is/was is that it is still online, but its closing in a few months so no one can make new accounts on it.
TR is a step back as far as mmorpgs go in my opinion. Firstly it pretends to be an fps but it really isn't, it's a first person rpg set in a sci fi universe. Secondly it is mainly a PvE game, I guess good ole British forgot what made UO so much fun (hint - starts and ends with a P) The graphics are pretty cool but it is mainly you shooting npcs in an rpg style miss or hit system over and over and over again. From what I'm hearing the game esentially comes down to only 2 classes and is pretty much a grind. Garriot hasnt done anything good in ages and i'm afraid he doesnt have anything new or good to offer the mmo community.
But its not "First Person Shooter" at all. Its played in the Third person. (Third Person Shooter???) All it is doing is not giving target lock until you hit a key and attaching specials to the mouse. JUST LIKE SWG tried with NGE. I play FPS games and TR is not even close to FPS. What the heck is the difference if I click on the mob once to select and again to attack or hold my cursor over it then press another key to "lock it" aside from the fact you gotta be annoyed with trying to keep the cursor over it while it hops around? Its just goofy and thats why SOE readded auto target/attack to SWG. Then the specials are fired from the right mouse button...now how does that make managing specials easier or better? Now you gotta hit a key to swap them out so you can fire them? Again, SWG tried this and it fell on its face so hard it about killed it. Its all Math based anyway, no twitch skill is involved other then locking the target, Its level / gear based combat. (pressing the mouse key to fire each shot at a locked target is not twitch based combat, its an illusionary psuedo style combat. The same MMORPG mechanics are still running under the hood only now its making you press more buttons for the same thing)
(you can get a complete description of this in several dev interviews including one where RG walks you through EXACTLY how it works, so no, I'm not breaking the NDA)
But yeah, its maybe not a full step back because I really don't know how many more step backs this genre can do before it steps off a cliff, but its not really a step forward either. Its more of the same with a new skin. I hate to say it but its not going to outdo SWG in terms of the raw amount of features. Its going to have some pretty nice missions but thats about it. I have not seen anything on vehicles, housing, crafting, guilds, space at all? what dynamic impact the players are going to have in this if any. I am picking up the vibe its going to be very similar to GW only with persistant areas. Scripted style, linear console type gameplay in MMORPG's FTW? ug....So much for free form gaming, time to get back on rails.
What I don't understand about MMO devs is if they want to do a FPS combat style why don't they just do it? It can still be third person. There are a number of console games that use shooter from third person. FPS is this: you have an aim reticle. If you fire and the reticle is on target, it hits. If you are not on target, you miss. (modified by the balistic characteristics of the weapon in use) Whats so hard about that? Whats with this clumsy button mashing these guys insist on doing? Hot key the specials, bam ...done. Its no different then a regualar shooter were you swap out different weapons for different effects and damage. They are hot keyed. You use your right mouse to aim / zoom normally.
Instead they keep trying to reinvent the wheel by trying to attaching math based combat to it.
Originally posted by Torak Originally posted by Airspell TR is a step back as far as mmorpgs go in my opinion. Firstly it pretends to be an fps but it really isn't, it's a first person rpg set in a sci fi universe. Secondly it is mainly a PvE game, I guess good ole British forgot what made UO so much fun (hint - starts and ends with a P) The graphics are pretty cool but it is mainly you shooting npcs in an rpg style miss or hit system over and over and over again. From what I'm hearing the game esentially comes down to only 2 classes and is pretty much a grind. Garriot hasnt done anything good in ages and i'm afraid he doesnt have anything new or good to offer the mmo community.
But its not "First Person Shooter" at all. Its played in the Third person. (Third Person Shooter???) All it is doing is not giving target lock until you hit a key and attaching specials to the mouse. JUST LIKE SWG tried with NGE. I play FPS games and TR is not even close to FPS. What the heck is the difference if I click on the mob once to select and again to attack or hold my cursor over it then press another key to "lock it" aside from the fact you gotta be annoyed with trying to keep the cursor over it while it hops around? Its just goofy and thats why SOE readded auto target/attack to SWG. Then the specials are fired from the right mouse button...now how does that make managing specials easier or better? Now you gotta hit a key to swap them out so you can fire them? Again, SWG tried this and it fell on its face so hard it about killed it. Its all Math based anyway, no twitch skill is involved other then locking the target, Its level / gear based combat. (pressing the mouse key to fire each shot at a locked target is not twitch based combat, its an illusionary psuedo style combat. The same MMORPG mechanics are still running under the hood only now its making you press more buttons for the same thing) (you can get a complete description of this in several dev interviews including one where RG walks you through EXACTLY how it works, so no, I'm not breaking the NDA) But yeah, its maybe not a full step back because I really don't know how many more step backs this genre can do before it steps off a cliff, but its not really a step forward either. Its more of the same with a new skin. I hate to say it but its not going to outdo SWG in terms of the raw amount of features. Its going to have some pretty nice missions but thats about it. I have not seen anything on vehicles, housing, crafting, guilds, space at all? what dynamic impact the players are going to have in this if any. I am picking up the vibe its going to be very similar to GW only with persistant areas. Scripted style, linear console type gameplay in MMORPG's FTW? ug....So much for free form gaming, time to get back on rails. What I don't understand about MMO devs is if they want to do a FPS combat style why don't they just do it? It can still be third person. There are a number of console games that use shooter from third person. FPS is this: you have an aim reticle. If you fire and the reticle is on target, it hits. If you are not on target, you miss. (modified by the balistic characteristics of the weapon in use) Whats so hard about that? Whats with this clumsy button mashing these guys insist on doing? Hot key the specials, bam ...done. Its no different then a regualar shooter were you swap out different weapons for different effects and damage. They are hot keyed. You use your right mouse to aim / zoom normally. Instead they keep trying to reinvent the wheel by trying to attaching math based combat to it. Sorry for the rant...lol...I got carried away...
I will say in TR's defense that their "Crouching" "Walking" "Standing Still" and "Cover" ideas are decent. You get more damage or less damage based on your stance and position, and you're more or less likely to get hit when you're in certain positions/stances.
The problem is the math right now though. When you're running let's say, at level 5, you'll do like 4 damage to an enemy IF you hit (because your precision is less when you're running), then you crouch, and you're doing 40 damage for example (but more likely to get hit). So yeah, the system is nice, but a 10x multiplier for standing still is a bit much. And I know it's beta, and I know the classes and such still need to be balanced (A LOT mind you) but basic math is still basic math.
Crouching and such have already been done....in SWG :P Guy seriously bring nothing new to the table, all he has left is his name and it seems to be fooling alot of top execs at NCsoft.
considering the fact that games have only recently become popular (by recent i mean around 2000) and the MMO market only took off after WoW in 2004 i expect it would not have changed much. i do however see in the next few years with DX10 and more funding that more diverse MMO's will be made.
wow DX10 will make mmo gameplay new and refreshing... or not. But it may make graphix shiny.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
The MMO market is the same as any other maturing market: you get everybody jumping on the bandwagon because they see it is a success and so they want a piece of it. They aren't looking to innovate and take risks--they just want product out there to get a piece of the pie.
But Garriot also isn't 100% correct either. Games like Second Life are certainly MMO's, but a lot of people don't think of them that way because they are so different than traditional MMO's.
The next several years will probably see nothing truly revolutionary in terms of gameplay, but will incorporate more persistence and customization, and maybe even some user-created content along the lines of Neverwinter Nights.
In my opinion, the next big breakthrough in MMO's will be the same as the breakthrough for video games in general: the amount of user interaction with the game and HOW users interact with the games. Things like Wii are the barest tip of the iceberg. Someone halfway across the world frags me in some PvP action? That vest I am wearing will give me a solid thump to let me know I've been hit, or the sword I am swinging will provide feedback so i can tell I've hit someone, and the person on the other end will feel that blow. Basically, it will be technology to help put you IN the game, and not just controlling a character in it.
Not to beat a dead horse, but there are a lot of different games out there. They're just not wrapped in western Fantasy Elves and Magic.
The major AAA CD/DVD-ROM installed part of this genre is what it is because we are an easily understood audience, being predictable. Magic, Elves, realistic guy armor, stupidly ineffective looking female armor, dragons and Raids as a gameplay to bitch about but hope we can someday be a part of. There's a reason 95% of game developers of these titles are guys. They are designing games for their target audience, which includes them!
Meanwhile, the real innovations are coming from games we're not going to touch because they don't appeal to us. This is in essence the Generation Gap as applied to this genre. We're not the audience that needs 100% of the pandering anymore.
And there's nothing really wrong with TR per se. It's PvE Planetside, and is pretty fun. It just doesn't, as has been said, bring anything new to the table. And it certainly isn't an experience/world people would associate with the RG name.
I agree with this point of view. But IMHO the problem is in mmorpg's market situation, devs are trying to make clones of uo,eq... now wow (if anyone mention eve, ask yourself a question -what differences are between mana and capa?). Cause this is a straight way to make profit, just give people what they want only with enhanced graphics and some "new" features. Second problem is that the mmorpg's become more friendly to casuals (less hardcore,difficult and etc) because easier and more profitable is to bring casuals in game, than to take a part of hardcore audience from the competitive mmo's. Simplicity and practically lost rpg part (only grind for carebares left) are modern disease.
What's ironic is that Garriot is developing Tabula Rasa, a game which doesn't move away from the lame ass EQ formula one iota. I know, I'm on the beta. What a hypocrite.
What's ironic is that Garriot is developing Tabula Rasa, a game which doesn't move away from the lame ass EQ formula one iota. I know, I'm on the beta. What a hypocrite.
I have a lot of respect for Richard Garriot dating back to the single player Ultima games of the eighties. At the same time, I think that simply because you were once revolutionary in an industry, it doesn't mean that your finger remains on the pulse of progress. The groundwork he set with the Ultima series through to UO is still evident in the current wave of MMORPGs, but that doesn't mean that he's going to revolutionize the genre today with a FPS/MMORPG hybrid. But I do give him credit, at least he's not resting on his laurels or trying to turn the clock back on the advancements of the last 8 years (like McQuaid would have liked if he had been competent enough to bring his "vision" to fruition). Bob Dylan was revolutionary in 1967. Now? Not so much.
I really wish there were a UO clone, I would play it. Instead, with a few notable exceptions, we have had a ton of Everquest clones with WoW clones now starting to appear. Richard Garriott is part of the problem releasing his WoW clone with guns.
Unless you've played it, you can't say it's a WOW clone.
Comments
Very interesting insight, and I definitely agree.
I think the problem is more with the 'risk vs reward' system involved with the investment side of things, that makes this happen.
If you look at it, and you'll read this everywhere: publishers rule our development. You could have the best game in the world, but if you don't have a publisher or funding, good luck to you. Which is where it all turns into one big cycle of doom.
'Risk VS Reward' tells us that the more risk we take, the more reward we could gain, but the less the chance of that happening. So, essentially, everyone is taking the 'safe' route, and investing in proved practices, and people who have been around forever, and may offer better insight.
Again, as you stated, the problem is the same ideas float around forever, and get reused, so we keep feeling like we're playing the same game.
BUT the biggest problem lies here:
There have been a bunch of insurgences of new companies, with new ideas, and new people, coming up. They have thought they could take the 'easy' route, and not get the 'old school' funding, and find private investors of their own, had to cut schedules short, and eventually... well, eventually we had games like 'Seed', 'The Saga of Ryzom', and many others, who had great ideas, but fell short because of lack of funding, so the need to press release dates was too harsh.
Now, i'm not saying similar things wouldn't have happened if they had been with some big investor that pushed schedules, but I'm just saying, this is our outcome.
Things are in a big cycle right now, and I really wish we could all fix it, but really, we just have to do what we know best: support the games that deserve it, don't buy the games that don't, and maybe they'll take our hints from now on.
We can only look to the future.
TR is a step back as far as mmorpgs go in my opinion. Firstly it pretends to be an fps but it really isn't, it's a first person rpg set in a sci fi universe. Secondly it is mainly a PvE game, I guess good ole British forgot what made UO so much fun (hint - starts and ends with a P)
The graphics are pretty cool but it is mainly you shooting npcs in an rpg style miss or hit system over and over and over again. From what I'm hearing the game esentially comes down to only 2 classes and is pretty much a grind.
Garriot hasnt done anything good in ages and i'm afraid he doesnt have anything new or good to offer the mmo community.
correct assesment - its a step backwards from UO eq, etc.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
considering the fact that games have only recently become popular (by recent i mean around 2000) and the MMO market only took off after WoW in 2004 i expect it would not have changed much. i do however see in the next few years with DX10 and more funding that more diverse MMO's will be made.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
we always talk about the next big mmorpg and the next generation mmorpg..
i dnt think it will happen quite like that, I have been playing mmorpgs sicne EQ was first released.. sadly I missed out on UO not sure if i could get into it now..
Anyway to me there never seems to be any great leaps forward with each so called generation.. usually jsut better graphics and a few extra features.. ok look at the up coming AoC sure it looks really nice and has a very nice combat system and maybe a few other extra things.. but is it gonig to be that different from other games.. i dont think so... WAR again sure its gonig to be a bit different as its PVP based.. but is it gonig to be that different form others.. nope.
these games evolve very slow.. really not much has changed since the days of EQ... but why should they change that much? people enjoy the way MMORPGs play otherwsie there would not be a market... ok it has been flooded with some really bad apples.. but there are quite a few really enjoyable game.. but i dont think any mmorpg will totally change the way mmorpgs change... I would like to see more sandbox and skillbased mmorpgs myself but still thats not anything new really...
Very true, although UO was the first massively popular mmo, EQ really took it one step forward by bringing the genre into the mainstream. Ever since the most popular games have been a very short throws away from EQs gameplay. (Dont mention AC cause it was never on top)
First there was Everquest, then there was DaoC, now its WoW and the difference is really more in the refinment of the original game with added features. WoW is only revolutionary in its sucess not in the game itself. When WoW goes under don't expect the next juggernaut to be that much different.
"TR is a step back as far as mmorpgs go in my opinion. Firstly it pretends to be an fps but it really isn't, it's a first person rpg set in a sci fi universe. Secondly it is mainly a PvE game, I guess good ole British forgot what made UO so much fun (hint - starts and ends with a P)
The graphics are pretty cool but it is mainly you shooting npcs in an rpg style miss or hit system over and over and over again. From what I'm hearing the game esentially comes down to only 2 classes and is pretty much a grind.
Garriot hasnt done anything good in ages and i'm afraid he doesnt have anything new or good to offer the mmo community."
The game is still in closed beta and not due for release for soem time.. so i would think the classes are still very much being worked on as well as the rest of the game... and there should not be any info coming out abotu this as people who are in the beta have agreed to the NDA..
Yah well, helps in having friends who are in BETA I guess. Friend made me a 20 minute vid of him playing, the game itself is extremely well polished for this stage of beta. So at least if you are hyped about the game I can tell you it's going to look and play sweet :P
Actually there is/was a pseudo UO clone, the Japanese Gundam mmorpg used the same skill system and while it doesn't have true FFA PvP, there was some great world PvP to be had and if your mobile suit got blown up you lost everything on the suit and the suit itself. The reason I say is/was is that it is still online, but its closing in a few months so no one can make new accounts on it.
(you can get a complete description of this in several dev interviews including one where RG walks you through EXACTLY how it works, so no, I'm not breaking the NDA
)
But yeah, its maybe not a full step back because I really don't know how many more step backs this genre can do before it steps off a cliff, but its not really a step forward either. Its more of the same with a new skin. I hate to say it but its not going to outdo SWG in terms of the raw amount of features. Its going to have some pretty nice missions but thats about it. I have not seen anything on vehicles, housing, crafting, guilds, space at all? what dynamic impact the players are going to have in this if any. I am picking up the vibe its going to be very similar to GW only with persistant areas. Scripted style, linear console type gameplay in MMORPG's FTW? ug....So much for free form gaming, time to get back on rails.
What I don't understand about MMO devs is if they want to do a FPS combat style why don't they just do it? It can still be third person. There are a number of console games that use shooter from third person. FPS is this: you have an aim reticle. If you fire and the reticle is on target, it hits. If you are not on target, you miss. (modified by the balistic characteristics of the weapon in use) Whats so hard about that? Whats with this clumsy button mashing these guys insist on doing? Hot key the specials, bam ...done. Its no different then a regualar shooter were you swap out different weapons for different effects and damage. They are hot keyed. You use your right mouse to aim / zoom normally.
Instead they keep trying to reinvent the wheel by trying to attaching math based combat to it.
Sorry for the rant...lol...I got carried away...
(you can get a complete description of this in several dev interviews including one where RG walks you through EXACTLY how it works, so no, I'm not breaking the NDA
But yeah, its maybe not a full step back because I really don't know how many more step backs this genre can do before it steps off a cliff, but its not really a step forward either. Its more of the same with a new skin. I hate to say it but its not going to outdo SWG in terms of the raw amount of features. Its going to have some pretty nice missions but thats about it. I have not seen anything on vehicles, housing, crafting, guilds, space at all? what dynamic impact the players are going to have in this if any. I am picking up the vibe its going to be very similar to GW only with persistant areas. Scripted style, linear console type gameplay in MMORPG's FTW? ug....So much for free form gaming, time to get back on rails.
What I don't understand about MMO devs is if they want to do a FPS combat style why don't they just do it? It can still be third person. There are a number of console games that use shooter from third person. FPS is this: you have an aim reticle. If you fire and the reticle is on target, it hits. If you are not on target, you miss. (modified by the balistic characteristics of the weapon in use) Whats so hard about that? Whats with this clumsy button mashing these guys insist on doing? Hot key the specials, bam ...done. Its no different then a regualar shooter were you swap out different weapons for different effects and damage. They are hot keyed. You use your right mouse to aim / zoom normally.
Instead they keep trying to reinvent the wheel by trying to attaching math based combat to it.
Sorry for the rant...lol...I got carried away...
I will say in TR's defense that their "Crouching" "Walking" "Standing Still" and "Cover" ideas are decent. You get more damage or less damage based on your stance and position, and you're more or less likely to get hit when you're in certain positions/stances.
The problem is the math right now though. When you're running let's say, at level 5, you'll do like 4 damage to an enemy IF you hit (because your precision is less when you're running), then you crouch, and you're doing 40 damage for example (but more likely to get hit). So yeah, the system is nice, but a 10x multiplier for standing still is a bit much. And I know it's beta, and I know the classes and such still need to be balanced (A LOT mind you) but basic math is still basic math.
nvm
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
Crouching and such have already been done....in SWG :P Guy seriously bring nothing new to the table, all he has left is his name and it seems to be fooling alot of top execs at NCsoft.
wow DX10 will make mmo gameplay new and refreshing... or not. But it may make graphix shiny.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
The MMO market is the same as any other maturing market: you get everybody jumping on the bandwagon because they see it is a success and so they want a piece of it. They aren't looking to innovate and take risks--they just want product out there to get a piece of the pie.
But Garriot also isn't 100% correct either. Games like Second Life are certainly MMO's, but a lot of people don't think of them that way because they are so different than traditional MMO's.
The next several years will probably see nothing truly revolutionary in terms of gameplay, but will incorporate more persistence and customization, and maybe even some user-created content along the lines of Neverwinter Nights.
In my opinion, the next big breakthrough in MMO's will be the same as the breakthrough for video games in general: the amount of user interaction with the game and HOW users interact with the games. Things like Wii are the barest tip of the iceberg. Someone halfway across the world frags me in some PvP action? That vest I am wearing will give me a solid thump to let me know I've been hit, or the sword I am swinging will provide feedback so i can tell I've hit someone, and the person on the other end will feel that blow. Basically, it will be technology to help put you IN the game, and not just controlling a character in it.
sounds about right. You play any mmo whether it'll be a free one or a pay one and the experience is the same.
Not to beat a dead horse, but there are a lot of different games out there. They're just not wrapped in western Fantasy Elves and Magic.
The major AAA CD/DVD-ROM installed part of this genre is what it is because we are an easily understood audience, being predictable. Magic, Elves, realistic guy armor, stupidly ineffective looking female armor, dragons and Raids as a gameplay to bitch about but hope we can someday be a part of. There's a reason 95% of game developers of these titles are guys. They are designing games for their target audience, which includes them!
Meanwhile, the real innovations are coming from games we're not going to touch because they don't appeal to us. This is in essence the Generation Gap as applied to this genre. We're not the audience that needs 100% of the pandering anymore.
And there's nothing really wrong with TR per se. It's PvE Planetside, and is pretty fun. It just doesn't, as has been said, bring anything new to the table. And it certainly isn't an experience/world people would associate with the RG name.
So what are these revolutionary games ?
Agreed. It's all about the EQ spam clone spam release right now. Bleh.
Truly revolutionary games:
Planetside. The first true fps mmo. With multi-person vehicles and it actually worked, to a point.
EvE Online. Realtime skill training. You are what you train. You could play the game without ever fiering a shot.
A Tale in The Desert. Non-combat mmo. Need I say more ?
And then you have the truly social mmo's like Second Life and the lookalikes.
So to say that mmo's haven't changed in 10 years is rediculus and I belive it's Mr RG that hasn't changed. And that will be his downfall.
I agree with this point of view. But IMHO the problem is in mmorpg's market situation, devs are trying to make clones of uo,eq... now wow (if anyone mention eve, ask yourself a question -what differences are between mana and capa?). Cause this is a straight way to make profit, just give people what they want only with enhanced graphics and some "new" features. Second problem is that the mmorpg's become more friendly to casuals (less hardcore,difficult and etc) because easier and more profitable is to bring casuals in game, than to take a part of hardcore audience from the competitive mmo's. Simplicity and practically lost rpg part (only grind for carebares left) are modern disease.
What's ironic is that Garriot is developing Tabula Rasa, a game which doesn't move away from the lame ass EQ formula one iota. I know, I'm on the beta. What a hypocrite.
I have a lot of respect for Richard Garriot dating back to the single player Ultima games of the eighties. At the same time, I think that simply because you were once revolutionary in an industry, it doesn't mean that your finger remains on the pulse of progress. The groundwork he set with the Ultima series through to UO is still evident in the current wave of MMORPGs, but that doesn't mean that he's going to revolutionize the genre today with a FPS/MMORPG hybrid. But I do give him credit, at least he's not resting on his laurels or trying to turn the clock back on the advancements of the last 8 years (like McQuaid would have liked if he had been competent enough to bring his "vision" to fruition). Bob Dylan was revolutionary in 1967. Now? Not so much.
Unless you've played it, you can't say it's a WOW clone.