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If Pre-CU was here.
DragenSoul
Member Posts: 86
I never played Pre-CU, But I came to a good conclusion today.
They wanted to change the game when world of warcraft was "Taking away there customers" and "Appeal to a wider audience". World of warcraft was the first MMO for a good sum of MMO players, The buddy key you get when you get a box really helped get more people. Within time, People would want to play other MMO's and if Pre-Cu was here today. My guess is that it would have near 600k-800k subscribers right now or more.My first MMO was runescape, When I played runescape I didnt know any other MMO's existed. Within time I drifted to other MMO's. When people play there first MMO they dont just jump to other MMO's fast, Its not like consle's where you can beat the game in a few days or less.
Once a small ammount of people got bored of WoW, They would look for another MMO ad they would see...Star Wars Galaxies. If I was a serious starwars fan I would scream if I saw that, People then go to Video-Game review sites and they read about the scandals of Pre-Cu and the NGE nad instantly get turned away to the game.
Such a shame. Anyone agree?
Sorry if I'm beating the dead horse.
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Comments
I agree I liked the CU and think it was getting better then LA sad they wanted this and that and bam we have the NGE. witch is not as good as the CU but is getting better. if they would just leave some things alone and add what the player base wants there is way to much tweeking going on they said the 1 reason we dont have 32 professions any more was because it was to hard to balance . well guess what we have 9 now and its been almost 2 years and its still unbalanced the new BH is uber and they broke spy , smuggler stilll getts no love lol / end rant
If people are tired of WoW, (or other level centered quest based loot gathering based games), it's not out of the realm of possibility they may want a game that isn't the above...something they could have had if SOE/LA had stuck with the original vision instead of jumping on the WoW clone bandwagon...
There were several contributing factors to what the OP describes: First, the original game was slowly losing subs long before WoW came out, but the release of WoW certainly accelerated it. Of course, even WoW didn't bleed off subs like the release of the NGE did. Second, the game was always very buggy - every time $OE released an update, they broke many other things, often things that had just been fixed last patch - now the players had to wait for the recently fixed but now broken bug to get fixed again. It was a truly sad state, I don't know why they had the problem they did but it was very annoying to this former player, and worth sub cancellation to many others. Third, $OE promised the moon every damned time they had the chance to and never delivered. Seen the video showing capital ships? $OE played with it, it never did much with it. Go necro some posts, the most player-requested content was Hoth as a PvP planet - instead, we got Kash (not bad, but not Hoth, and Hoth would've fit in the timeline) and Mustafar. Also, some profs needed fixing badly, Smuggler being the most referenced example, but others needs some attention as well - $OE kept promising it and never came anywhere close to delivering. To be honest, SWG also was not a game for everyone - WoW is, in my personal opinion, so successful because any idiot can achieve almost anything in it - it is a game for the lowest common intellectual denominator. SWG was not - I do believe $OE's claims that new players often felt overwhelmed when they first joined SWG, I know I did but that's what I loved about it - I set my own boundaries for fun, not $OE. In WoW, you are led by the nose everywhere. SWG is implementing something similar with the Legacy quests. These factors, in sum, had already put $OE on a path of slowly dwindly subs. I think if they had fixed the profs and broken content, they would've been fine - SWG would never rival WoW, but I think it would've stabilized as the 3rd or 4th biggest US game. As we all know, they instead destroyed nearly everything the vets had accomplished with the NGE, with sucked horribly, blew the timeline out the window, and made the game a catastrophe. It's getting better, much better, but $OE has screwed me over so many times already that I don't care how good they make the game - I won't go back. They've burned me too many times. There are some suckers who are ready to go back and take it from them again, that is a choice up to each of us. I don't think a buddy key would really help all that much - SWG was a game whose greatness was driven by its strong community, its players recruited heavily anyways in the glory days. In my opinion it's best to hope whoever gets the SW license does it right next time and support them, as long as it's not $OE.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
Originally posted by MrArchy
Of course, even WoW didn't bleed off subs like the release of the NGE did.
TOTAL QFE... It wasn't WoW that stole all the subs, $OE did that on their own. When the NGE was released ppl quit in DROVES rather than take it up the a$$ from $OE again.
To be honest, SWG also was not a game for everyone - WoW is, in my personal opinion, so successful because any idiot can achieve almost anything in it - it is a game for the lowest common intellectual denominator.
WoW appeals to children with low attention spans. It's the 12 - 21 year olds that drive WoW's subs.
SWG was not - I do believe $OE's claims that new players often felt overwhelmed when they first joined SWG
I don't know about that. I first joined SWG in September '04, (GASP! Someone who admits they weren't around from day one Beta)...
I started as a Wookie Brawler and I had my little green R2 buddy to walk me around and teach me how to shoot things, so I was able to grind in the beginning and get acclimatized to the game, then later I was able to get into the advanced stuff (i.e. reading).
They instead destroyed nearly everything the vets had accomplished with the NGE
And freely admitted it.
But $OE has screwed me over so many times already that I don't care how good they make the game - I won't go back. They've burned me too many times. There are some suckers who are ready to go back and take it from them again, that is a choice up to each of us.
Very well said.
SWG was a game whose greatness was driven by its strong community, its players recruited heavily anyways in the glory days. In my opinion it's best to hope whoever gets the SW license does it right next time and support them, as long as it's not $OE.
I was most amazed with the fact that Pre-CU you had to go to other players for nearly everything, (armor, weapons, food, etc). It was nearly ENTIRELY a player driven economy, something I've never seen before or since...
FALSE
I never liked W0W. never played it and never even looked at again after it was released. the reasons?
cartoonish graphics for characters is one. fantasy settin' is another.
SWG WAS for everyone. ya could become anybody. RP Uncle Oven or Jedi or stormtrooper... the ability to mix/match professions was priceless. as somebody put it the 32 plus professions was half of SWG content in itself!
when I saw W0W beta screenshots it was like MEH! SWG even looked so much better... more deapth, more freedom and based on Sci-Fi and not some chizzy fantazy world with little dwarphs and elphs..
buttomline: W0W is not my cup of tea. and I can't see how SWG isn't to anyone.....
FALSE
Actually it's TRUE. I think what MrArchy is saying is that WoW is a game that can be understood by everyone; it's a dumbed down gaming system with over-simplified crafting, etc. that a 12 year old can understand.
when I saw W0W beta screenshots it was like MEH! SWG even looked so much better... more depth, more freedom and based on Sci-Fi and not some chizzy fantasy world with little dwarphs and elfs..
buttomline: W0W is not my cup of tea. and I can't see how SWG isn't to anyone.....
Nothing wrong with dwarves and elves as they're the foundation to basically ALL fantasy stories, fantasy simply isn't your preference. If one compares graphics then SWG definitely was better, (I won't play NGE so I don't know what things look like now). SWG does have more freedom, however again, the OP was discussing PRE-CU, not NGE. The PRE-CU NGE WAS more complicated, something the average 12 year old wasn't interested in...
I agree somewhat with the OP. preCU SWG had somewhere around 300k subs when the MMO community was still relatively small... Now SWG has what 50k-100k subs, and the community is just huge, which to me basically says SWG is a total failure.
FALSE
Actually it's TRUE. I think what MrArchy is saying is that WoW is a game that can be understood by everyone; it's a dumbed down gaming system with over-simplified crafting, etc. that a 12 year old can understand.
when I saw W0W beta screenshots it was like MEH! SWG even looked so much better... more depth, more freedom and based on Sci-Fi and not some chizzy fantasy world with little dwarphs and elfs..
buttomline: W0W is not my cup of tea. and I can't see how SWG isn't to anyone.....
Nothing wrong with dwarves and elves as they're the foundation to basically ALL fantasy stories, fantasy simply isn't your preference. If one compares graphics then SWG definitely was better, (I won't play NGE so I don't know what things look like now). SWG does have more freedom, however again, the OP was discussing PRE-CU, not NGE. The PRE-CU NGE WAS more complicated, something the average 12 year old wasn't interested in...
FALSE
Actually it's TRUE. I think what MrArchy is saying is that WoW is a game that can be understood by everyone; it's a dumbed down gaming system with over-simplified crafting, etc. that a 12 year old can understand.
when I saw W0W beta screenshots it was like MEH! SWG even looked so much better... more depth, more freedom and based on Sci-Fi and not some chizzy fantasy world with little dwarphs and elfs..
buttomline: W0W is not my cup of tea. and I can't see how SWG isn't to anyone.....
Nothing wrong with dwarves and elves as they're the foundation to basically ALL fantasy stories, fantasy simply isn't your preference. If one compares graphics then SWG definitely was better, (I won't play NGE so I don't know what things look like now). SWG does have more freedom, however again, the OP was discussing PRE-CU, not NGE. The PRE-CU NGE WAS more complicated, something the average 12 year old wasn't interested in...
is that a fact?
so ya basically sayin' that 12 year old kids were too stupid to figure out how to play TKA or the game was too complex for them because it required readin'... not to mention 12 year olds don't even have their own credit cards so how's that matter all that much?
on a side note, I'm sure there were thousands of 12 year old players preCU and loved it!
look at what happened to SWG now. it's 12 year old friendly because they made it so simple and dumb.. looks like the 12 year old dominate NGE nowadays and how great a game it must be now that we have 3 ppl playin' it on most servers....
I aways felt like if they had just stuck with the pre CU format and fixed the game instead of reinventing it they would be sitting pretty on 750K - 1M subs now and the MMO landscape would have much greater diversity than it does today.
If Pre-CU was here, I'd be still playing, instead of sitting here with no MMORPG for me to play.
Nuff said.
FALSE
I never liked W0W. never played it and never even looked at again after it was released. the reasons?
cartoonish graphics for characters is one. fantasy settin' is another.
SWG WAS for everyone. ya could become anybody. RP Uncle Oven or Jedi or stormtrooper... the ability to mix/match professions was priceless. as somebody put it the 32 plus professions was half of SWG content in itself!
when I saw W0W beta screenshots it was like MEH! SWG even looked so much better... more deapth, more freedom and based on Sci-Fi and not some chizzy fantazy world with little dwarphs and elphs..
buttomline: W0W is not my cup of tea. and I can't see how SWG isn't to anyone.....
Ah yes.. how could we forget Uncle Oven. I used to love roleplaying poor old Uncle Oven and Aunt Stovetop getting burned alive by the Sandpeeps.
Sorry don't mean to make fun of your typo.. just pissed that pre-CU is but a distant memory
If pre-cu was here there would still be people moaning about the game..its more or less what forced the changes anyway
I agree the game was hardly flawless, but CU and NGE just made it pathetic
If $OE never change the system of the game, i would be playing SWG, like me there is so many ppl whit the same thinking as me. WoW dind steal any sub from SWG, $OE lose the sub on their own, so blaming WoW for that, no thanks
If they hadn't trashed the game I bought and ground up my character through and replaced it with the dreck of the NGE, then I would have paid to re-subscribe a couple times by now.
I still would have quit for lengthy periods, as I did pre and post CU, because of the consistently abysmal quality of the code and the inscrutable development choices made by the Mis-Management Team of this project, but since all my prior work wouldn't have been invalidated, and my functional interface and graphics replaced with the cartoony crap of the NGE, I'd stop in once in a while and actually pay to run my old character through his paces.
But what they did to the game, and to the customers, all in the name of making it cheaper to operate and appealing to a completely different demographic audience ... they lost me, permanently.
I'd be still sodding playing it, as for the comment about 12 year olds I saw being made.... Well I'm 17, the game was released in what? 2000? So that means If I'm 17 now I think was about 12 or 13 or heck maybe 14 or 15 when I played that game as far as I can remember ( bloody hell I was young then :S ) . Because I didn't keep up with the news very much I didn't even know that were updates coming but when the CU came out, I could just tell something was wrong, the combat, everything was beginning to get simplified and clunky, so I just checked out the forums and the amount of complaints I saw were overwhelming and I just immediately thought "I have to get out of this before everything starts falling apart" It took me several clicks of the cancel button only to find that we were still getting billed for the game and a call to the customer support in order to wipe the account entirely.
I don't WANT the Pre-Cu to come back, at least under SOE's name, just because I know somehow they'll screw it up again, what I want is someone to make another game like that again so I don't get bored anymore there are way too many badly made level based grindfests today and I just can't stand them these days WoW was alright for the first year it came out but after that they completely screwed everything up with the updates they brought in.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
I aways felt like if they had just stuck with the pre CU format and fixed the game instead of reinventing it they would be sitting pretty on 750K - 1M subs now and the MMO landscape would have much greater diversity than it does today.
The_Trout speaks the truth. If they'd just rolled with it and added some spit and polish they'd be doing quite well right now. Funny thing about greed. Sometimes it bites you in the @$$.
I hate to burst your bubble, but playing SWG wasn't exactly like studying analytical chemistry or reading Solzhenitsyn, either.
FALSE
Actually it's TRUE. I think what MrArchy is saying is that WoW is a game that can be understood by everyone; it's a dumbed down gaming system with over-simplified crafting, etc. that a 12 year old can understand.
when I saw W0W beta screenshots it was like MEH! SWG even looked so much better... more depth, more freedom and based on Sci-Fi and not some chizzy fantasy world with little dwarphs and elfs..
buttomline: W0W is not my cup of tea. and I can't see how SWG isn't to anyone.....
Nothing wrong with dwarves and elves as they're the foundation to basically ALL fantasy stories, fantasy simply isn't your preference. If one compares graphics then SWG definitely was better, (I won't play NGE so I don't know what things look like now). SWG does have more freedom, however again, the OP was discussing PRE-CU, not NGE. The PRE-CU NGE WAS more complicated, something the average 12 year old wasn't interested in...
is that a fact?
so ya basically sayin' that 12 year old kids were too stupid to figure out how to play TKA or the game was too complex for them because it required readin'... not to mention 12 year olds don't even have their own credit cards so how's that matter all that much?
I'M not saying that, I'm saying that it seems the OP was trying to say that. However plz note I said "the average" 12 year old, I'm sure there were plenty of 12 year olds that played SWG, however the advanced reading and other aspects of the PRE-CU might not have appealed to kids, wherein WoW seems AIMED at kids...
on a side note, I'm sure there were thousands of 12 year old players preCU and loved it!
look at what happened to SWG now. it's 12 year old friendly because they made it so simple and dumb.. looks like the 12 year old dominate NGE nowadays and how great a game it must be now that we have 3 ppl playin' it on most servers....
I wouldn't know, I won't play the NGE as I consider it an abomination to what SWG was... However I'd agree the game has been completely dumbed down...
FALSE
I never liked W0W. never played it and never even looked at again after it was released. the reasons?
cartoonish graphics for characters is one. fantasy settin' is another.
SWG WAS for everyone. ya could become anybody. RP Uncle Oven or Jedi or stormtrooper... the ability to mix/match professions was priceless. as somebody put it the 32 plus professions was half of SWG content in itself!
when I saw W0W beta screenshots it was like MEH! SWG even looked so much better... more deapth, more freedom and based on Sci-Fi and not some chizzy fantazy world with little dwarphs and elphs..
buttomline: W0W is not my cup of tea. and I can't see how SWG isn't to anyone.....
Your quote of me is completely out of context and is grossly misrepresented - your argument is specious thereby. Next time, understand what I say before you simply hit the quote button. I did not say "WoW is for everyone" as you misrepresent me doing.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
I hate to burst your bubble, but playing SWG wasn't exactly like studying analytical chemistry or reading Solzhenitsyn, either.
You're not bursting my bubble - I never compared SWG to analytical chemistry or reading Solzhenitsyn, I compared WoW and SWG and the relative intellectual capacity each takes to successfully learn to play (for SWG, I'm using pre-CU version for my statements, before the green R2 droid), and I further state that in my opinion pre-Green R2 SWG was harder than WoW is. Your reply is pure hyperbole. Post count +1 for you, great posts for you +0.
Just a quick observation for everyone (not just the my two replies in this thread), these "discussions" would better serve our community if they weren't taken so far out of context nor to such illogical tangents. /rantOff
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
I hate to burst your bubble, but playing SWG wasn't exactly like studying analytical chemistry or reading Solzhenitsyn, either.
I never compared SWG to analytical chemistry or reading Solzhenitsyn
Yes, I know; I compared them.
I compared WoW and SWG and the relative intellectual capacity each takes to successfully learn to play... and I further state that in my opinion ... SWG was harder than WoW is.
Again, SWG wasn't rocket science. It was quite an easy game to understand. A SWG fan making fun of WoW's simplicity is like a peasant from Zimbabwe calling a nomad from the Sudan skinny.
Your reply is pure hyperbole. Post count +1 for you, great posts for you +0.
Chem. and Solz. were extremes used to make a point. FWIW, I don't print out and stick "great posts" on my fridge, so no feelings hurt, although unfortunately I do measure the length of my manhood by my postcount.
...these "discussions" would better serve our community if they weren't taken so far out of context nor to such illogical tangents. /rantOff
Don't get so bent out of shape. It's just a message board about a video game (although one that, I've read, requires more "intellectual capacity" than most
).
... I'd be playing SWG right now.
SWG? Pull the plug already!