but its against the rules.. if it wernt then yeah sure its their own fault for not taking the drugs or whatever..
if the game rules state no mods UI or whatever... then using UI mods would be against the ruels.. so they would be cheating.. Now if the game states UI mods can be used then they should point people to the UI mods that are available.
And ..why would that be exactly ? there's resources all over the internet. Sites dedicated to custom mods.
Fact is, you are allowed to drive a car, you are allowed to pimp that car and you are allowed to pick your own way of pimping it. It becomes illegal when you break speedlimits with it, but prior to that, you can pimp your car any way you want, with any resource you can find.
The company is not obligated to do anything for you, besides providing a playable game, which justifies the entry fee.Beyond that, it's a free world.
p.s for the example I was assuming mods are allowed in games and in WoW, yes, mods are allowed.
Whether they will be in WAR is up to the developers and they can choose their own way of limiting the possibilities. Any exploits derived from this are inheritly the developers fault, because they didn't force enough limitation.
You have not answered my question. Also if a mod creates an extra tool bar on the screen... you feel that is cheating?
Actually I did answer. Its all in the editorial.
"ANY advantage.......
not some, not half, not situational ...........ANY
Well throw out the keybindings as well, give everyone the same keyboard, give everyone the same broadband connection. Make sure everyone gets the same latency, do I need to continue?
Mods are fine for me as long as they only adjust the UI, scripting however isn't good as they can automate stuff.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
Since I have started using mods in WOW I cannot look back. I like the ability to customize look and feel of my UI. Simply because Blizzard's default ui does not cater to my needs to see the info required by my as a healer in the raid.
UI mods for WOW like: MSBT(Mik's Scrolling Battle Text), GRID, ORA2, etc.. are invaluable raiding tools and are better then anything Blizzard has put in their UI. Why do you think Blizzard integrated features from CT_RA mods? Because someone did better job then them. Considering WAR is going to be PVP game I won't need mods like ORA2, GRID etc.. But would love MSBT like mod and ability to reorder bars on my screen and move party frames around to maximize my screen real-estate.
Both sides have their arguments, but as someone said EVERYONE can install any mod they want. There is a reason why sites like http://forums.elitistjerks... exist. They cater to number crunchers and serious discussions about end game and minute details of the classes in the game, as well as UI discussions. In any MMO it pays to be informed just like in real life.
The definition of cheating, is that you gain an impossible advantage over your enemies/fellow players
cheat play_w("C0263400") (cht) v.cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats v.tr. 1. To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases. 2. To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land. 3. To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye. 4. To elude; escape: cheat death.
v.intr. 1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud. 2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards. 3. Informal To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse.
n. 1. An act of cheating; a fraud or swindle. 2. One who cheats; a swindler. 3. Law Fraudulent acquisition of another's property. 4. Botany An annual European species of brome grass (Bromus secalinus) widely naturalized in temperate regions.
Everyone has access to the mods, so the people using them are in fact, not cheating. It only takes 10 minutes of asking on aforum to obtain all the information you need to do the same. It's there to take, it's your own fault if you don't.
The only reason why you treat it as cheating is by principle and fact of the matter is, sometimes principals are wrong.
Not everyone wants to have to search for third-party programs to become effective in-game! Thats the thing, maybe some people want a fair advantage, not be on par with the modding community just so they don't get owned by someone with equal gear/skill.
*just as a note, I greatly appreciate your editorial -- a nice long thought-out idea that relates to the subject.
It is cheating aslong as the cheat code isnt written somwhere in the manual or implemented into the game as a official feature of the game and allowed by the game makers, if the game makers say you cant mod so you heal if a friend is below 50% its considered cheating if you still do it.
Also, UI mods that make your ui look different should be compeltely okay, aslong as it doesnt add more bars or warnings and shit,
you as a person should be able to react when people start to target you, if you cant then well go home and practice and come back when you got better reflexes.
making windows look different is whats ok. is what im saying here.
adding more windows to have control over the entire playing field is NOT ok. someone said its all about your character, right? not you as a person, then stop adding stuff to your UI that helps YOU as a person, and try to find stuff that helps your character. but wait you cant, because that would be hacking and cheating aswell.
so, all in all, changes the looks of the windows but staying true to the basics is fine, adding more stuff = bad. unles its a bar such as fubar and titan panel in wow, that shows gold, latency fps and stuff.
If anyone here has played World of Warcraft for any substantial period of time, then you know of all the different mods and add-ons you can get for your interface. I think I am the only one who believes this but I hope they don't have add-ons for WAR because, in my opinion, some of those mods out there can give someone a slight edge.
I agree with you and I don't enjoy using them,yet I think it's possible a small selection(and very difficult ) of non-advantaging tools for personal amusing or aesthetic issues but also to correct little bugs.Besides they have to be 100% secure and always compatible with the MMO, a lot of things.
Not everyone wants to have to search for third-party programs to become effective in-game! Thats the thing, maybe some people want a fair advantage, not be on par with the modding community just so they don't get owned by someone with equal gear/skill.
*just as a note, I greatly appreciate your editorial -- a nice long thought-out idea that relates to the subject.
<BLUSH>
Oh why thank you, flattery will get you everywhere
I personally would prefer Mythic simply enabling any element on their UI to be hidden, resized, and moved. HP Bar, Target, Party Bar, Tool Bar, Action Bar(s), etc. Just let me place them where I want. Allow me to disable the "fluff" artwork with a checkmark.
If they open up WAR to community modding, then they lose control over their game. Gamers are not necessarily computer geeks, and vice versa. The problem this creates is that while Person A can easily code some logic into god-like script or macro, Person B lacks that technical knowledge. And no matter how good a gamer Person B is, he will never out do the script or macro person A coded. Meanwhile, Person A could be a TERRIBLE gamer.
So - should Mythic allow mods? No. Just allow players to do what I listed in my first paragraph.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
First off, Kraiden, praising your own editorial is just lame, let others do it for you as it IS well written and express your opinion equally well.
I will consider that an attempt at self humor but being this a forum and as such, facial expression and voice tone are not visible, I can't say for certain.
Second, my opinion in the field is "Mods yes, but not too much". Where I draw the line is on mods that automate too many actions or permit to do things that a human could not do.
The rest, it is all good.
Let's talk about the spell casting mod, now obsolete in wow as they added it in the main UI. So a guy target you and start casting Spell X. in your combat chat it appeares RIGHT THERE "XXXX is casting spell X" the mod DID NOT take any extra info. it just take data that you already HAVE and display it in a more suitable way.
This, for me, is perfectly acceptable. If the Devs do not want you to know in plain sight what spells X is casting, then the information won't be visible in your combat chat period. You will have to do with visual cues.
On the other hand, any mods that do things physically impossible, like casting 2 spells at once or giving you a radar when you could not, are all cheating and should not be allowed. Now WoW, again, has corrected the "2 spells at once" problem by inserting a global cooldown of 1 second. So you cannot anymore, even by macro, cast 2 spells, even instant ones, at the same time.
That is fine by me.
And ... when you talk about having to choose before entering combat what abilties to equip in WAR, you are talking of TACTICS slots, . the SKILLS AND SPELLS of your class, however, do not work like that or at least I have never seen anywhere they say you have to "equip" spells, ala eq for example.
Maybe it requires extra effort on the company's behalf to make sure the mods available are all kasher, but I personally think those would be euros well spent. Look at WoW, the mod community is huge and incredibly varied. thousands of people make it grows and prosper thanks to this. You do not think that is part of the charm of wow? I think so.
If you look back, you will notice many succesful games had a great mod community. Half Life, The various elder scrolls, neverwinter nights... all famous for the fact the company allowed you to be creative.
Remove that and I think you are shooting yourself in the foot. Beside, when they did DAoC they were jsut Mythic and had limited resources, now they are EA Mythic and have a behemoth of a company behind, I'm sure the extra money they can get.
Yours
Volkmar
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Originally posted by kraiden call me hardcore... but they are buttons. read them and click on them its not too hard for me. But I say down with Mods. ALL of them. Its pandoras box and there is no real stop to it once you let it start. Thats my opinion based off of my small 25 years of online gaming.
i agree, unless it is to just change the appearance of your ui, i don't think any should be allowed. as an alternative i hope that there is a wide range of options to modify your ui and whatnot, let the game developer implement the mods they want in their game, that way everyone has access to them...3rd party modding has no place in mmog's IMO.
(I have read on WARHAMMERALLIANCE.COM that) WAR will enable people to create their own UI(uses .LUA). I'm not in favor of addons that some would call "cheats" but I highly advocate customizable User Interface. I really enjoy changing my UI and tweak it to perfection. I used custom UI in Anarchy Online, LOTRO, WoW and EQ2 so I'm really looking forward to sink my teeth into fine-tuning my WAR interface
I never really had a problem with add-ons, but you're right about the macro's, I hate them. I hope they don't have them in WAR, and I'd be willing to bet that they won't. Add-ons are fine as long as they don't go overboard like 'that other game' did.
call me hardcore... but they are buttons. read them and click on them its not too hard for me. But I say down with Mods. ALL of them. Its pandoras box and there is no real stop to it once you let it start.
Thats my opinion based off of my small 25 years of online gaming.
solution:
put the tools in game to modify your UI, but don't allow any 3rd party mods or add-ons
In regards to the artical its very outdated in regards to WoW's MAcro abilities, its true you could a while back do some of the things it mentioned but thats not been true for a long time, you can no longer add pauses to macros or activate more than 1 skill at a time from a macro, you cannot get a players HP/Mana or buffs from a macro (to auto activate an attack as talked about in the artical).
The only Macro I use is my pet feeding macro that announces to pepole around me that I am feeding my pet "Here you go [pet name] have some [ravager dog].. thats a good [pet family]"
I also have a macro that i used to either cast my land mount of air mount based on where I am in the world, that means I replace 2 buttons with 1.. is that soooo bad?
call me hardcore... but they are buttons. read them and click on them its not too hard for me. But I say down with Mods. ALL of them. Its pandoras box and there is no real stop to it once you let it start.
Thats my opinion based off of my small 25 years of online gaming.
_All of them_? Stop stop stop...
You know , theres a HUUUGE difference between mods that change the appearance of your UI and the ones that are considered "cheats"
Why would you wanna disable the ability to change the appearance of your UI with .lua scripting? You have no real argument against that
call me hardcore... but they are buttons. read them and click on them its not too hard for me. But I say down with Mods. ALL of them. Its pandoras box and there is no real stop to it once you let it start.
Thats my opinion based off of my small 25 years of online gaming.
Im just curious what games were online back in 1982... I mean i thought the internet back then was pretty much non existant...hell I don't remember much of anything with gaming outside of an arcade or an Atari back in 1982 (25 years ago). The first Online games of the scale you could modify as far as a Large scale produced game was UO which was back in the 90s...atleast thats my recollection of online gaming of this type. (im not trying to be a smart ass I'm just wondering if I missed something while I was a kid)
Plus according to your age (30) your only what maybe a few months older than me making us maybe 5 years old 25 years ago. Or are you lying about that too? Honestly when i was 5 it was all about going outside, the atari, or the video arcade.
If game developers would just give us the ability to freely move things around I don't see the reason why anyone needs to create a mod. Its absolutely a cheat to have mods that tell you exact numbers when those numbers were never meant to be seen and if you dont know which spells are which icons then you're not even attemptig to learn how to play. Mods that are more than simple UI changes should be banned all together. (this opinion is related to MMOs and not other online games like FPS games mods for those games are usually fun...like playing DOOM mods that let you kill Barney)
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
If WAR will have addons, Ill use them, but I won't be upset if they don't include them. If they didn't, at least it would mean I wouldn't have to go and update, or wait for, my addons almost every time they came out with a new patch. I do think they give an unfair edge, but if someone else is using them, I'll be using them.
As for macros, I'll have them anyways from a second program (macros that are at least not subject to any sort of cooldown anyways). If they do have them, I hope they'll be simplistic about it.
Hmm. Ya I dont think you will have UI's that add more bars in war. Part of the strategy they want in the game is picking your spells that will go on your bar BEFORE you leave out to go to combat. Your bar are a set legnth because certain skills and abilities are supposed to take up more room than others because of their power and worth.
So this pretty much kills this whole debate on this thread
I respect your right to an opinion but I find it rather naive and narrow minded.
What I don't respect is you self promotion of your own editorial which is rather narcissistic.
Peace out.
I'm gonna go with this guy, man what a storm of hot air based on generalizing all mods/addons into one term.
If you can't see all the good that has come out of the WoW mod community you never looked any further than half the length of your nose in my opinion.
Sure there were some out of control things like discursive however in time they were dealt with as will anything else of the sort in time.
Meanwhile the whole system has given a freedom to design your own UI in a way that's unheard of before.
I've spent ages customizing the looks of my UI over and over and I still enjoy it to this day and it gives me satisfaction to play with my own UI settings.
One of the biggest things that hit me when I went back to try Daoc (once) was the extreme clunkiness of the UI and the annoyance that I couldn't fit it to my own preferences.
Mods/addons are not all there to give an advantage and the ones that seriously do tend to get taken care of over time.
On the topic of Warhammer, I actually think a mythic representative already stated somewhere that they were going with a similar type lua based UI? I could be mistaken on that though but I think I remember one of them saying it.
In WoW, you can write a macro which will target the same opponent as someone in your group and say out loud "I am attacking Bob." A large red glowing circle would appear below Bob's feet to indicate he is the target and his picture would flash on your screen. This same macro will also use your strongest attack if Bob is over 70% life. If you do not have enough power to use your strongest attack, the very same macro will perform an auto attack. The same macro will also perform an automatic hamstring attack if Bob is moving too fast. Last but not least, if Bob is under 20% life your macro will use a finishing move, quite a change eh?
It's funny going through your post and realising how clueless you are. When did you actually play WoW? Pre 1.9 I guess.
Most mods are not cheats but some are a bit overpowered.
I think however you need to look at the game itself because Neccesity is the mother of all invention.
Look at Decursive. It was really an overpowered mod that allowed you to press one button and decurse/dispell a raid. Now this mod would not have been created had there not been Boss fights that placed debuffs on everyone and especially those debuffs that would insta-kill or damn near dibilitate the entire raid. Look at Chromaggus, the god of all decurse fights. That fight was a PAIN IN THE ASS without mods. Doable but still freaking hard especially since you might need two different groups depending on what your strat was.
As for conditional mods I can really see them being cheats but in all honesty if you played a rogue and tried to land the "Backstab" attack and get "Not behind target" while you were it was annoying. So putting Backstab then sinister strike would allow you to backstab if behind and sinister strike if otherwise. It was honestly needed. Things that cast spells or take potions for you though are definitely cheats.
The UI part of modding is totally needed. Sorry i don't need all the pretty pictures and clutter of bars that aren't needed. I want my buttons moveable, my minimap moveable, healthbars moveable, and the other essential stuff moveable. I hate have things in corners that I need all the time and vice versa of having things I never use in plain view. I also hate not being able to choose color combinations since they can make a big difference in how things appear.
kraiden, I think you're getting confused between Mods and "Hacks". The difference between those are huge! Also, to make your point sound more valid, you're overly exaggerating your examples as Raztor pointed out. I don't know what kind of super-crazy macro could do that, but I've never come across one myself (and I doubt even a Mod would create a "large red glowing circle" under someones feet). It was an awful example of a macro, auto attack is AUTO! If someone merely punches you, you're going to auto attack! To do all those things you pointed out, you'd have to go beyond a Mod, and actually hack the game to create a bot (if we're going on your example of just clicking one key once) - and that's cheating!
This may sound outrageous to some people who come from other games, but that's just the normal way things are in Warcraft. Third generation gamers have softened with these third generation games. In fact it is a rule in most raid guilds that you have to use a certain collection of Mods in order to be allowed into the guild. Let's talk about Decursive, may the MMORPG gods forgive me for I have said the D word. While this seems like a simple function in WoW, I will explain it to the general public. Decursive is a Mod that automatically removes any negative effect your character is capable of removing from every person in your forty man raid. You not only don't have to target the people, or check the icon to see if it is something you can cure, you just have to be alive and have mana to cast it. If it is a new spell and you do not know if your class can remove it or not, this macro will bypass your knowledge and make the decision for you. Forget knowing your class; forget making smart choices and tactical decisions, we will let the script do it.
Wow... you liar. At least do some research before posting such lies. I've never used this mod, but from a quick look I understand what it bascially does. It places an icon on your screen which changes colour depending on what kind of debuff it is. You still have to click it, and it doesn't remove it "from every person in your forty man raid" it only removes it from the one person you click (I assume the icon is by the party members icon, or it uses your target). Now, clicking that decurse/cleanse/whatever icon will still trigger the global cooldown, so therefore it would be impossible to instantly cure a forty-man raid - you'd need to click everyone, and wait one second between each cast. IF decursive got around the global CD (which it doesn't) then that would be cheating (it'd require a hack to modify the game itself).
Cheating is having that advantage over other players, by having something that other players don't have access to, and something that is used which isn't intended. E.G, in an FPS people who use aimbots are cheaters, as they have to hack the game in order to use it (which changes variables that aren't supposed to be changed). An example in an MMO would be bots, people who hack the game in order to be able to create a character that do things that other players can't - and that's your macro!
Macros are mainly there to save us keys. We can use one key that actually uses more than one skill (Google /castsequence), but you still need to press that same key again to use the other skill. They are there for everyone, and they don't give players an advantage over anyone else.
Mods are here to make our lives easier. WoW has so many more keys and options than DAoC, so such mods aren't needed. I have so many buttons on WoW that I've filled all those extra slots that are available in the interface options - that's the same for everyone else! I barely needed the three bars that are in DAoC.
Remember when you used to pretend to cast an offensive spell to fake someone out? Nope, that won't fool that scripting. You will be able to identify more information, and make better decisions (if not have the decisions made for you) by having the right macro equipped.
I recently went to the dark-side and rolled a Paladin. I do fake heals all the time and Rogues kick nothing! There's no such a "more information" script, and you know it.
Sorry, but if you need to make up lies to get your point across, then your argument becomes nullified.
Comments
And ..why would that be exactly ? there's resources all over the internet. Sites dedicated to custom mods.
Fact is, you are allowed to drive a car, you are allowed to pimp that car and you are allowed to pick your own way of pimping it. It becomes illegal when you break speedlimits with it, but prior to that, you can pimp your car any way you want, with any resource you can find.
The company is not obligated to do anything for you, besides providing a playable game, which justifies the entry fee.Beyond that, it's a free world.
p.s for the example I was assuming mods are allowed in games and in WoW, yes, mods are allowed.
Whether they will be in WAR is up to the developers and they can choose their own way of limiting the possibilities. Any exploits derived from this are inheritly the developers fault, because they didn't force enough limitation.
If they disallow it, it's cheating. Yes.
ah but in some countries like france you cant do many things to pimp your . .for example i belive all engine mods are banned haha..
anyway like most debates i suppose we could go on for ever..
at the end of the day if the game allows them.. then all well and good.. if they dont then well you cant use them hehe
What country you are from remain irrelevant to the point though
"ANY advantage.......
not some, not half, not situational ...........ANY
Well throw out the keybindings as well, give everyone the same keyboard, give everyone the same broadband connection. Make sure everyone gets the same latency, do I need to continue?
Mods are fine for me as long as they only adjust the UI, scripting however isn't good as they can automate stuff.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
Since I have started using mods in WOW I cannot look back. I like the ability to customize look and feel of my UI. Simply because Blizzard's default ui does not cater to my needs to see the info required by my as a healer in the raid.
UI mods for WOW like: MSBT(Mik's Scrolling Battle Text), GRID, ORA2, etc.. are invaluable raiding tools and are better then anything Blizzard has put in their UI. Why do you think Blizzard integrated features from CT_RA mods? Because someone did better job then them. Considering WAR is going to be PVP game I won't need mods like ORA2, GRID etc.. But would love MSBT like mod and ability to reorder bars on my screen and move party frames around to maximize my screen real-estate.
Both sides have their arguments, but as someone said EVERYONE can install any mod they want. There is a reason why sites like http://forums.elitistjerks... exist. They cater to number crunchers and serious discussions about end game and minute details of the classes in the game, as well as UI discussions. In any MMO it pays to be informed just like in real life.
Not everyone wants to have to search for third-party programs to become effective in-game! Thats the thing, maybe some people want a fair advantage, not be on par with the modding community just so they don't get owned by someone with equal gear/skill.
*just as a note, I greatly appreciate your editorial -- a nice long thought-out idea that relates to the subject.
It is cheating aslong as the cheat code isnt written somwhere in the manual or implemented into the game as a official feature of the game and allowed by the game makers, if the game makers say you cant mod so you heal if a friend is below 50% its considered cheating if you still do it.
Also, UI mods that make your ui look different should be compeltely okay, aslong as it doesnt add more bars or warnings and shit,
you as a person should be able to react when people start to target you, if you cant then well go home and practice and come back when you got better reflexes.
making windows look different is whats ok. is what im saying here.
adding more windows to have control over the entire playing field is NOT ok. someone said its all about your character, right? not you as a person, then stop adding stuff to your UI that helps YOU as a person, and try to find stuff that helps your character. but wait you cant, because that would be hacking and cheating aswell.
so, all in all, changes the looks of the windows but staying true to the basics is fine, adding more stuff = bad. unles its a bar such as fubar and titan panel in wow, that shows gold, latency fps and stuff.
I agree with you and I don't enjoy using them,yet I think it's possible a small selection(and very difficult
) of non-advantaging tools for personal amusing or aesthetic issues but also to correct little bugs.Besides they have to be 100% secure and always compatible with the MMO, a lot of things.
Oh why thank you, flattery will get you everywhere
I personally would prefer Mythic simply enabling any element on their UI to be hidden, resized, and moved. HP Bar, Target, Party Bar, Tool Bar, Action Bar(s), etc. Just let me place them where I want. Allow me to disable the "fluff" artwork with a checkmark.
If they open up WAR to community modding, then they lose control over their game. Gamers are not necessarily computer geeks, and vice versa. The problem this creates is that while Person A can easily code some logic into god-like script or macro, Person B lacks that technical knowledge. And no matter how good a gamer Person B is, he will never out do the script or macro person A coded. Meanwhile, Person A could be a TERRIBLE gamer.
So - should Mythic allow mods? No. Just allow players to do what I listed in my first paragraph.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
First off, Kraiden, praising your own editorial is just lame, let others do it for you as it IS well written and express your opinion equally well.
I will consider that an attempt at self humor but being this a forum and as such, facial expression and voice tone are not visible, I can't say for certain.
Second, my opinion in the field is "Mods yes, but not too much". Where I draw the line is on mods that automate too many actions or permit to do things that a human could not do.
The rest, it is all good.
Let's talk about the spell casting mod, now obsolete in wow as they added it in the main UI. So a guy target you and start casting Spell X. in your combat chat it appeares RIGHT THERE "XXXX is casting spell X" the mod DID NOT take any extra info. it just take data that you already HAVE and display it in a more suitable way.
This, for me, is perfectly acceptable. If the Devs do not want you to know in plain sight what spells X is casting, then the information won't be visible in your combat chat period. You will have to do with visual cues.
On the other hand, any mods that do things physically impossible, like casting 2 spells at once or giving you a radar when you could not, are all cheating and should not be allowed. Now WoW, again, has corrected the "2 spells at once" problem by inserting a global cooldown of 1 second. So you cannot anymore, even by macro, cast 2 spells, even instant ones, at the same time.
That is fine by me.
And ... when you talk about having to choose before entering combat what abilties to equip in WAR, you are talking of TACTICS slots, . the SKILLS AND SPELLS of your class, however, do not work like that or at least I have never seen anywhere they say you have to "equip" spells, ala eq for example.
Maybe it requires extra effort on the company's behalf to make sure the mods available are all kasher, but I personally think those would be euros well spent. Look at WoW, the mod community is huge and incredibly varied. thousands of people make it grows and prosper thanks to this. You do not think that is part of the charm of wow? I think so.
If you look back, you will notice many succesful games had a great mod community. Half Life, The various elder scrolls, neverwinter nights... all famous for the fact the company allowed you to be creative.
Remove that and I think you are shooting yourself in the foot. Beside, when they did DAoC they were jsut Mythic and had limited resources, now they are EA Mythic and have a behemoth of a company behind, I'm sure the extra money they can get.
Yours
Volkmar
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
i agree, unless it is to just change the appearance of your ui, i don't think any should be allowed. as an alternative i hope that there is a wide range of options to modify your ui and whatnot, let the game developer implement the mods they want in their game, that way everyone has access to them...3rd party modding has no place in mmog's IMO.
just curious but does anyone know if Warhammer will allow mods?
(I have read on WARHAMMERALLIANCE.COM that) WAR will enable people to create their own UI(uses .LUA). I'm not in favor of addons that some would call "cheats" but I highly advocate customizable User Interface. I really enjoy changing my UI and tweak it to perfection. I used custom UI in Anarchy Online, LOTRO, WoW and EQ2 so I'm really looking forward to sink my teeth into fine-tuning my WAR interface
I never really had a problem with add-ons, but you're right about the macro's, I hate them. I hope they don't have them in WAR, and I'd be willing to bet that they won't. Add-ons are fine as long as they don't go overboard like 'that other game' did.
solution:
put the tools in game to modify your UI, but don't allow any 3rd party mods or add-ons
In regards to the artical its very outdated in regards to WoW's MAcro abilities, its true you could a while back do some of the things it mentioned but thats not been true for a long time, you can no longer add pauses to macros or activate more than 1 skill at a time from a macro, you cannot get a players HP/Mana or buffs from a macro (to auto activate an attack as talked about in the artical).
The only Macro I use is my pet feeding macro that announces to pepole around me that I am feeding my pet "Here you go [pet name] have some [ravager dog].. thats a good [pet family]"
I also have a macro that i used to either cast my land mount of air mount based on where I am in the world, that means I replace 2 buttons with 1.. is that soooo bad?
_All of them_? Stop stop stop...
You know , theres a HUUUGE difference between mods that change the appearance of your UI and the ones that are considered "cheats"
Why would you wanna disable the ability to change the appearance of your UI with .lua scripting? You have no real argument against that
Im just curious what games were online back in 1982... I mean i thought the internet back then was pretty much non existant...hell I don't remember much of anything with gaming outside of an arcade or an Atari back in 1982 (25 years ago). The first Online games of the scale you could modify as far as a Large scale produced game was UO which was back in the 90s...atleast thats my recollection of online gaming of this type. (im not trying to be a smart ass I'm just wondering if I missed something while I was a kid)
Plus according to your age (30) your only what maybe a few months older than me making us maybe 5 years old 25 years ago. Or are you lying about that too? Honestly when i was 5 it was all about going outside, the atari, or the video arcade.
If game developers would just give us the ability to freely move things around I don't see the reason why anyone needs to create a mod. Its absolutely a cheat to have mods that tell you exact numbers when those numbers were never meant to be seen and if you dont know which spells are which icons then you're not even attemptig to learn how to play. Mods that are more than simple UI changes should be banned all together. (this opinion is related to MMOs and not other online games like FPS games mods for those games are usually fun...like playing DOOM mods that let you kill Barney)
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
If WAR will have addons, Ill use them, but I won't be upset if they don't include them. If they didn't, at least it would mean I wouldn't have to go and update, or wait for, my addons almost every time they came out with a new patch. I do think they give an unfair edge, but if someone else is using them, I'll be using them.
As for macros, I'll have them anyways from a second program (macros that are at least not subject to any sort of cooldown anyways). If they do have them, I hope they'll be simplistic about it.
www.sghq.com
What I don't respect is you self promotion of your own editorial which is rather narcissistic.
Peace out.
I'm gonna go with this guy, man what a storm of hot air based on generalizing all mods/addons into one term.
If you can't see all the good that has come out of the WoW mod community you never looked any further than half the length of your nose in my opinion.
Sure there were some out of control things like discursive however in time they were dealt with as will anything else of the sort in time.
Meanwhile the whole system has given a freedom to design your own UI in a way that's unheard of before.
I've spent ages customizing the looks of my UI over and over and I still enjoy it to this day and it gives me satisfaction to play with my own UI settings.
One of the biggest things that hit me when I went back to try Daoc (once) was the extreme clunkiness of the UI and the annoyance that I couldn't fit it to my own preferences.
Mods/addons are not all there to give an advantage and the ones that seriously do tend to get taken care of over time.
On the topic of Warhammer, I actually think a mythic representative already stated somewhere that they were going with a similar type lua based UI? I could be mistaken on that though but I think I remember one of them saying it.
It's funny going through your post and realising how clueless you are. When did you actually play WoW? Pre 1.9 I guess.
Most mods are not cheats but some are a bit overpowered.
I think however you need to look at the game itself because Neccesity is the mother of all invention.
Look at Decursive. It was really an overpowered mod that allowed you to press one button and decurse/dispell a raid. Now this mod would not have been created had there not been Boss fights that placed debuffs on everyone and especially those debuffs that would insta-kill or damn near dibilitate the entire raid. Look at Chromaggus, the god of all decurse fights. That fight was a PAIN IN THE ASS without mods. Doable but still freaking hard especially since you might need two different groups depending on what your strat was.
As for conditional mods I can really see them being cheats but in all honesty if you played a rogue and tried to land the "Backstab" attack and get "Not behind target" while you were it was annoying. So putting Backstab then sinister strike would allow you to backstab if behind and sinister strike if otherwise. It was honestly needed. Things that cast spells or take potions for you though are definitely cheats.
The UI part of modding is totally needed. Sorry i don't need all the pretty pictures and clutter of bars that aren't needed. I want my buttons moveable, my minimap moveable, healthbars moveable, and the other essential stuff moveable. I hate have things in corners that I need all the time and vice versa of having things I never use in plain view. I also hate not being able to choose color combinations since they can make a big difference in how things appear.
bad mods lol
kraiden, I think you're getting confused between Mods and "Hacks". The difference between those are huge!
Also, to make your point sound more valid, you're overly exaggerating your examples as Raztor pointed out. I don't know what kind of super-crazy macro could do that, but I've never come across one myself (and I doubt even a Mod would create a "large red glowing circle" under someones feet). It was an awful example of a macro, auto attack is AUTO! If someone merely punches you, you're going to auto attack!
To do all those things you pointed out, you'd have to go beyond a Mod, and actually hack the game to create a bot (if we're going on your example of just clicking one key once) - and that's cheating!
Wow... you liar. At least do some research before posting such lies. I've never used this mod, but from a quick look I understand what it bascially does. It places an icon on your screen which changes colour depending on what kind of debuff it is. You still have to click it, and it doesn't remove it "from every person in your forty man raid" it only removes it from the one person you click (I assume the icon is by the party members icon, or it uses your target). Now, clicking that decurse/cleanse/whatever icon will still trigger the global cooldown, so therefore it would be impossible to instantly cure a forty-man raid - you'd need to click everyone, and wait one second between each cast. IF decursive got around the global CD (which it doesn't) then that would be cheating (it'd require a hack to modify the game itself).
Cheating is having that advantage over other players, by having something that other players don't have access to, and something that is used which isn't intended. E.G, in an FPS people who use aimbots are cheaters, as they have to hack the game in order to use it (which changes variables that aren't supposed to be changed). An example in an MMO would be bots, people who hack the game in order to be able to create a character that do things that other players can't - and that's your macro!
Macros are mainly there to save us keys. We can use one key that actually uses more than one skill (Google /castsequence), but you still need to press that same key again to use the other skill. They are there for everyone, and they don't give players an advantage over anyone else.
Mods are here to make our lives easier. WoW has so many more keys and options than DAoC, so such mods aren't needed. I have so many buttons on WoW that I've filled all those extra slots that are available in the interface options - that's the same for everyone else! I barely needed the three bars that are in DAoC.
I recently went to the dark-side and rolled a Paladin. I do fake heals all the time and Rogues kick nothing! There's no such a "more information" script, and you know it.
Sorry, but if you need to make up lies to get your point across, then your argument becomes nullified.
-iCeh