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My Reflections on the Summit and FanFaire
Fishermage
Member Posts: 7,562
Submitted here for your enjoyment and commentary:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=436303
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=436303
Comments
wow.....
http://www.straightdope.com/
Great read, thx for the info.
Any word on classic servers? They can have their NGE flop but atleast give us our game back in the form of classic servers.
They may be nice folks to you but they still ruined a great game and no matter how much of the old stuff they put back in as new content the NGE is still a steaming pile of crap that just needs flushed.
So to sum it up......They paid money (free trip for 2 to Vegas) to shut you up and now that it worked it's one less bad mouth they have to deal with. Bravo SOE.
It takes a big man to take responsibility for his words and actions.
Now if only we can get Smed to do his part.
WOW! What a read. Very nice. I still don't think I will ever get that apology though.
Interesting read. Is there a time limit on the NDA to where you can discuss those areas mentioned?
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I've been thinking about this for the last couple hours. I don't think an apology in the way of a statement on paper or the internet would do for me. Fishermage had the opprotunity to give them an apology face to face. (not assuming he didn't) Fishermage seems like an alright guy and may have felt a bit stupid for assumeing these SOE guys were DA DEBIL. I applaud you Fishermage for posting a retraction of your feelings about them and giving them the kudos they deserve. Most of us don't know them and will never meet them. We may feel the same if we were in your place. (except for the sollow people) Even though we my dislike the game, they are human and they are doing their best. Trying to breath life into a dead horse isn't easy folks.
I don't think John will apologize. (for what??) He isn't the God of SOE. He has a boss too you know. Maybe it's his fault. (who cares anymore whos fault it is) But I do believe someone has to have the balls to stand up and say, "I did it!, It was me, and i feel terrible about what happened." If John S. is that man, then i'm sure people would look for another person to hate and drop this crap. The blame game is infectious, (it wasnt me he did it, na uh it was him, i didnt do it, she did.)
I need an apology in the form of video. Thats the only way we can see if he really is sorry for what happened. (whom ever apologizes) Seeing someones face tells a lot about a person and body language tells you if its sincere.
Just a thought or a rant ( whatever?)
To Fishermage,
/deepbow
Every weak head has his price and can be bought.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
SOE/LA fooled me once, so shame on them. I'll NEVER give them the opportunity to do it again. I'd be a fool to do otherwise... There's nothing they can do to bring me back ~ well, refunding the balance of time that was left on my account (plus interest) might be a start..? Hey, it's just business baby...and their not getting mine again.
Honestly, there's nothing in SOE's current line-up that really appeals to me anyway....heh, so they've been extremely easy to avoid. I was somewhat interested in the Pirate game, but that ship has now sailed (sorry, too easy to resist).
I suppose you've got to be a BIG-TIME Star Wars fan to tolerate (much less forgive) all the lying and backstabbing SOE/LA has done to their community.
Fishermage, you might be able to extend some forgiveness, but until they bring back the old profession system, until they banish the level system to the outer rim, and until they get rid of toons on crystal meth, I won't come back.
Which means, in effect, I'll never come back. Because the fundamental problem they drove off all the people who could handle the old system and replaced them with new folks that, no matter how talented, could not grasp some of the fundamental aspects of the game, so it was gutted in favor of a pale imitation of WoW without the polish, the professionalism, and any customer service to speak of.
Besides, the bait and switch of the Trials of Obi-Wan is wholly unforgivable.
I don't do business with people who are this blatantly dishonest and mercenary. Furthermore, as long as John Smedley is in charge of anything, to include the janitor closet, at SOE, have no confidence whatever that the betrayal of the NGE will not be repeated. This is not a trustworthy individual by any stretch of the imagination, and his subordinates do not make the final calls...he does, and his calls are nearly always based soley on greed.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Good question, and the answer is, not really, no. If and when these things that I heard and saw go live, which isn't all that much and won't be for very long (Sorry no Pre-Cu Servers or Rollbacks were contained in anything I heard and saw). The things that were under NDA were not primarily the things that changed my tune.
Folks on the official boards will note that I have said repeatedly that I LIKE much of what has been done in Chapters 5 and 6 (although not everything, and those things I have been quite vocal about as well). This was just partial confirmation of some of the feelings I have been feeling, cobined with an actual meeting of the folks at SOE, who, are NOT the same people who brought us the NGE for the most part, and are for the most part decent hard-working folks.
I still think Smedley ought to make ammends, and I still do not trust them. Trust , once lost, takes truth over time, and it hasn't been long enough for me.
Believe me, I understand and respect the skepticism, the anger, and all that. I am NOT asking anyone to "give them a chance" or anything of the sort. Everyone has to settle things in his or her own mind, and I am just sharing my reflections on what I experienced, no more, no less. If it helps you, great, if not, feel free to ignore it.
To those who think I have been bought -- that is quite possible, I suppose. I am however, quite wealthy (semi-retired at 45) , and I would place my portfolio and property against John Smedley any day. I am not some wide-eyed naive kid who falls for shinies and trinkets -- I have enough of those. Again you can choose to believe me or not, I am fine either way.
I was never asked to post anything by anyone. I am sharing this only because I feel the SWG community -- past, present and possible future -- deserves it.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Well said. I remember some of your posts in the 'old days' both here and on the SWG forums. For the most part they were honest well thought out posts and responses.
For what it's worth, SOE took to much from my character for me to ever feel comfortable with them ever again. Maybe, just maybe if they can fix the level play and the animations and the bugs, I'd be willing to try again, but it's just taking to long. I loved crafting. And now they say they're going to fix it. A year and a half after the fact. Sorry, to little to late. I'm glad they realize they've 'dropped the ball' but it was pretty much common freaking sense from the first. There are people that make mistakes, its human. But not to this degree, I have no sympathy or patience for their kind of 'dropping of the ball' As you said and I've said before myself, the trust is gone. It will take a miracle for them to ever get my trust again.
I'm sick of it all, I'm sick of the bickering between the guys that like the game and the guys that still hate the game. I'm sick of missing SWG and my character I played and learned to enjoy. Why do I still come here? I guess deep down I like the drama. Like those that say you see the train wreck happening but you just can't turn away. I still come here now and then with the slim hope they changed the game, or are closing the POS down for good. I played until May of 06, crafters still had no love by then, it didn't look like they ever would. There were no positive vibes about that happening anytime soon either, especially with Cao spouting his crap. TH spouting his crap about spending hours and hours searching on vendors. Damn pissants.
Even now, when I get bored and try to think of a cool game to play either online or off, I get pissed thinking of them SoB's messing with MY game and my character.
In closing, thanks for your informative post and your honest and open opinion.
Thanks for the reply Fishermage. I do believe you are being sincere and I'm sure you probably have many a friend calling you turn-coat and shunning as a response. Its natural for folks to be skeptical of a post such as one you wrote, but folks need to set their hatred aside and read it with neutral feelings.
I am actually seeing similar letters and comments from friends that were at the FF as well. Still not trusting everything, but more understanding to their situations and tasks at hand. All were very pleased at what was seen and discussed for the overall future of SWG.
SWG. Its merely a game, nothing more.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
How much you get paid for that post?
Tbh if SWG isn't going to do pre cu servers then it's going in the wrong direction for me, theres nothing they can do to the NGE that would make me want to go back. Things like spices and LA not wanting them to be in a Star Wars game means things like pre cu wont be again.
As I have already said, I doubt they could afford what it would cost to "buy me." At my rates, they may as well pay for Classic Servers. I'm already quite well off, so I'd be VERY expensive.
Your decision hangs on SPICES??? Being a pseudo drug dealer in a game is what makes it good for you? Interesting opinion, and the first time I've heard anyone use THAT as THE thing that makes it like pre-CU. Profession diversity, the sucked up UI, the speed of combat and lousy animations, lack of content and just the NGE-ness of the thing I can understand, but not the desire to sell something that food does better anyhow. Wow.
Anyway thanks for your input and no, they paid me nothing to post this.
fishermage.blogspot.com
No i never said it hangs on that i just said that because things like that ensure pre cu never coming back cause LA just doesn't want it back as they suck. Pre CU was a unique mmorpg with no levels and a completly sandbox game where you had the freedom to do what you want. Now you have a End game that sucks and levels confined to a crap class with some gay picture on it with a horrible UI. More bugs than ever before cause the game wasn't built for the NGE and nothing to do at level 90 but PVP with the crap system it has.
People say the NGE has changed but in my eyes all they've done is added stuff they took out in the first place and made it worse.
Isn't this somewhat of a moot discussion? SOE/LA has had feedback for years, and have failed to act on a coherent design. If either company has a single neuron firing, contact CCP and learn what following a project road map means.
Just being realistic, I doubt SWG will ever be salvaged though. The game was never implemented nor supported properly. As someone already stated, SWG will likely remain a small niche title.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Just so you people know Smedley already apologized on the public SWG forums. The post was made in like, December, January, or February of 2004-2005. Just go look up his forum name and go to his posts, he only has like twenty in the history of the board.
So that being said, quit crying about how he needs to personally come to your house and fellate you while he writes an apology and has his witness sign and notarize it for you and then frame it in 24 karat cold with diamonds encrusted in it or whatever else you think you're owed.
And this is coming from a preCU fanboi.
I have read everything he has ever written, he has specifically NOT apologized. Sorry, unless you can show it to me I'm not going to believe you.
If you read carefully, I am not crying, -- actually nobody is crying here -- nor am I saying it is necessary for me. It would be GOOD business for him to act like a man and apologize for the mistake he made. It's what adults do in an adult world when they mess up. Thanks for the uncalled for crude additions though, at least those were moderately creative.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I work in a large, international company - I have meet many of the senior executives, midlevel bosses, etc, and many of them are really nice, even cool people (and some are, well, less). In the end though, they do what they do which affects me if I like it or not. And if they do something that their bosses tell them to do, that doesn't mean I have to like the result just because they are cool, or because it may "not be their fault".
So I understand Stark's comment, although perhaps expressed a bit harsly:
They may be cool and you might have had fun - just don't loose your ability or will to criticize!
I work in a large, international company - I have meet many of the senior executives, midlevel bosses, etc, and many of them are really nice, even cool people (and some are, well, less). In the end though, they do what they do which affects me if I like it or not. And if they do something that their bosses tell them to do, that doesn't mean I have to like the result just because they are cool, or because it may "not be their fault".
So I understand Stark's comment, although perhaps expressed a bit harsly:
They may be cool and you might have had fun - just don't loose your ability or will to criticize!
Not to worry, just be aware I am older, richer, and more experienced than most of them in the world of business. I've been making a very good living by investing in businesses for over twenty years now, and I do not fault anyone for greed or profit. I am a radical for capitalism and a strong advocate of greed. I am also a strong advocate for well run business. This is a very young, very immature industry, which is good and bad. I believe that has contributed to the problems in the industry more than anything else, and as a commentator and a customer I am doing all I can to influence things and be a strong advocate for maturity and better business practices. We will all profit from that.
I'll never stop calling them as I see them, so worry not.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Fisher....
While some of us are as wise and or rich or "well off", seems a wee bit nicer to say... I know better then to buy a three legged mule.
I have, like you spent time with previous devs, emails between myself and Smedley and know all to well since beta what has happend.
I also know the only way to go from the bottom of the bucket is up. SWG will never be what it once was... it seems that is agreed upon from all forms of fans. Most of us have been around long enough to know when we are being had, or that we have been taken advantage of.
I also know that in good business you do not shit on your customers plain and simple... no if ands or butts. With that said, based on what you said... I then wonder if the free trip added to the rose colored glasses.
I have been asked things before, I have been very very much... let's just say more ant-nge then yourself by far... I can safely say.. the game or product is still no where NEAR mass marketing level. How do I back this up? I say -- go look at the non-popular servers and there is your answer to the NGE and it's success.
We all know the way to recover this, we all know what needs to be said, we all know *(most) the truth behind the NGE and that making the game simplistic and with less "Nancy" reading was a mistake...along with Jedi to losing the 32 profs...
The real question is will people use logic, or emotions to choose the path? Will the current small Dev team try to appease the playerbase with anything they can?
I mean at two fan fests myself had two Devs look me in the eye and say yes the new FRS is on the way, then the last one was Grant telling me he did not do what he did to the UI on purpose and that that BLIX -- yes BLIX.. had no idea that the skill tapes were not dropping and it sounded like a loot problem. (passing the buck somewhat).
So how many chances do they get? How many do overs as a BUSINESS that you speak of do they get to try out on consumers of thier product?
Because I can tell you this... no way would a normal company get away with doing what they did and make a profit or even stay in business without getting a bad rap.
Show me success in SWG since the NGE...(Becuase first YOU have to show me and remind yourself and all of us of the massive failure it took to get there)... or just ask the 150k plus -- I think youll get the same response.
laptop late at night = bad typos
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lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
I have even personal emails myself, which he has even responded to people in this very forum about it. (Actually even more then you might want to see lol)..
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lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
Shack: Yeah, it seems as if many players are mostly happy with the gameplay as it is. Performance issues and bugs seem to top the list of desired improvements. Do you know if those areas are going to be an immediate focus of the team?
John Smedley: Absolutely, you know, performance improvements, bugs, definitely at the top of our list. We're not going to go in and make some broad-sweeping changes. We tried that with Star Wars Galaxies, we screwed it up, and we're not going to do it again. [laughs] It really is as simple as that. We try to learn from our mistakes. Maybe we're not always perfect, but in this particular case let's fix the things that are broken, not the things that aren't. http://www.shacknews.com/extras/2007/051707_johnsmedley_1.x
John Smedley has gone on record with saying it was an error several times now. http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/06/12/tired-of-hearing-about-the-nge/
Atleast they admit their mistake