This is still going? Jesus H. Christ, Zorgo. Give it a rest already. If you're not happy with how the forum is set up, find another forum! It's really not that friggen difficult a problem to solve. Hell, get a freewebs account and make your onw VG forum, then it can only contain what you want it to. They are not going to give you another section here, I can guarantee that with a 99.9% probability. All you are doing now, is attracting what you say your so against, just so you can say "I proved my point". Get over it and move on.
But my main comp is broken, and I have nothing better to do......
.....but more seriously, that is what i am trying to decide. Whether I can actually effect change and make this a better site to visit or not. That is why i have been so diligent in my responses. I will give this up trust me, but I am trying to get a moderator to pay attention, because, I think I have made some valid arguments. I am probably wrong based on the responses I have to this thread. And therefore, you don't have to worry, you won't have to suffer me any more, and the failure that is this forum can become complete, you will be able to go ahead and change the name from 'Vanguard General Discussion' to 'Vanguard General Disgust' and you will be able to re-hash anti-VG arguments ad infinitum, because there will be no actual players left who feel comfortable discussing their game here anymore.
P.S. What does the H. in Jesus name stand for anyway? - Personally, I prefer 'Christ on a bicycle!' used in the same context
Yes, I agree with this. That is why I ammended my original proposition, in several responses, (and I can't imagine it didn't show up in one of my responses to you) to suggest that EVERY game on this site should have a 'complaint desk' type forum. I'm not trying to silence people who dislike Vanguard, or any game, I am simply trying to give those who play Vanguard a voice on this site.
Ah, but you ARE trying to silence people. You're trying to sweep any and all criticism under the rug, or cast it aside as if it's something bad rather than just a difference of opinion.
All of the games on this site, with the singular exception of SWG, have one general discussion forum. The reason that SWG has that second forum is because the NGE really was such a massive, unprecedented change to an already established game. People literally saw years of work erased in an instant, and after they'd just shelled out full retail for a new expansion.
SWG's is a unique situation among MMO's, and one that created metric boatloads of bitterness and wank that still carry over to this day. That's why they have a second forum and the rest of the games don't. Even WoW only has one general discussion forum despite all the abuse that gets heaped on it by people around here. Why? Because it's never been in the same situation that SWG found itself in.
For every other game on this site, including WoW and Vanguard, the single discussion forums are enough. Positive, negative, and everything in between exists in all of them, and that's how it should be.
For example, my main game, as I've previously said, is City of Heroes/Villains. I've been playing it since closed beta, and have no intention of leaving the game until they finally turn the servers off. However, not everyone feels that way. Many consider the game repetitious and boring, and nothing but an annoying grind. And I remember quite a few massive flame wars when the devs changed the way people enhanced their powers by introducing a system of diminishing returns called Enhancement Diversification, and when they've made other unpopular changes to the game.
But you know what? In spite of those flame wars, or the complaints that people have about it, I still wouldn't want a separate complaint forum for CoH/CoV on this site. Why? Because it would be a lie.
I don't want people to get an incomplete picture of the game I've played for over 3 years now. I want them to see all sides of it, good, bad, and in between, and I want them to get opinions of all stripes. Let them read the flames as well as the praise, then make up their minds. That's the best way for people to decide if it's a game they want to invest their time and money into.
What you're wanting is nothing more than a whitewash for Vanguard. You're wanting to erase the history surrounding this game, and to pretend it doesn't exist. You can't do that. It isn't honest. Consumers should have every bit of information available to them, whether you like it or not.
Yes, I agree with this. That is why I ammended my original proposition, in several responses, (and I can't imagine it didn't show up in one of my responses to you) to suggest that EVERY game on this site should have a 'complaint desk' type forum. I'm not trying to silence people who dislike Vanguard, or any game, I am simply trying to give those who play Vanguard a voice on this site.
Ah, but you ARE trying to silence people. You're trying to sweep any and all criticism under the rug, or cast it aside as if it's something bad rather than just a difference of opinion.
Really, I'm not, I just want a good forum for the complaints. So when you want to know the bad, you have a forum to click on. If they were to actually ban dissent and have it not be heard, I'd be screaming even louder than this. If your opinion is that the effect such a forum were to silence people, I cannot argue with that; I disagree, but I see where you are coming from.
All of the games on this site, with the singular exception of SWG, have one general discussion forum. The reason that SWG has that second forum is because the NGE really was such a massive, unprecedented change to an already established game. People literally saw years of work erased in an instant, and after they'd just shelled out full retail for a new expansion.
SWG's is a unique situation among MMO's, and one that created metric boatloads of bitterness and wank that still carry over to this day. That's why they have a second forum and the rest of the games don't. Even WoW only has one general discussion forum despite all the abuse that gets heaped on it by people around here. Why? Because it's never been in the same situation that SWG found itself in.
This again is quite a valid opinion. Again, I disagree, and do not think SWG should be considered a 'special' case, even considering its history, but it is certainly your right to feel so.
For every other game on this site, including WoW and Vanguard, the single discussion forums are enough. Positive, negative, and everything in between exists in all of them, and that's how it should be.
At the risk of re-hashing my tired argument, I think Vanguard is as much a special case as SWG, in that, the dissent is so pervasive, that the players are drowned out. I'm an equal opportunity person however, and realize that if its good for SWG, good for Vanguard, I think it should be good for all games.
For example, my main game, as I've previously said, is City of Heroes/Villains. I've been playing it since closed beta, and have no intention of leaving the game until they finally turn the servers off. However, not everyone feels that way. Many consider the game repetitious and boring, and nothing but an annoying grind. And I remember quite a few massive flame wars when the devs changed the way people enhanced their powers by introducing a system of diminishing returns called Enhancement Diversification, and when they've made other unpopular changes to the game.
I am a CoH/CoV fan as well. But I think they would benefit from a complaint desk too.
But you know what? In spite of those flame wars, or the complaints that people have about it, I still wouldn't want a separate complaint forum for CoH/CoV on this site. Why? Because it would be a lie.
I wish you had said it like this a long time ago, we wouldn't have started slinging mud at each other.
I don't want people to get an incomplete picture of the game I've played for over 3 years now. I want them to see all sides of it, good, bad, and in between, and I want them to get opinions of all stripes. Let them read the flames as well as the praise, then make up their minds. That's the best way for people to decide if it's a game they want to invest their time and money into.
I disagree that it would give people a skewed picture. I see these forums as being like a big reference book with no topical lists. I really am just trying to catagorize the way people think about these games, without removing any of the content of the book.
What you're wanting is nothing more than a whitewash for Vanguard. You're wanting to erase the history surrounding this game, and to pretend it doesn't exist. You can't do that. It isn't honest. Consumers should have every bit of information available to them, whether you like it or not.
No, really that isn't what I want. I don't think it would be fair for anyone to not know what this games history has been. I just want the history divided into topical catagories. I want the arguments against Vanguard to be here, I just don't want them to drown out the discussion of the game's players. Because, I feel like there is history that is missing, the history of the fun many of us are having. I feel that we can't discuss our game freely for fear of our threads and posts being hijacked and shut down.
This I think is the best expression of your opinion yet, and I respect it fully. I feel like you've finally addressed my proposal, yet we share a differing opinion.
I'm not sure I can convince you that I really adamantly do not want to silence dissent. You may feel that would be the effect of my proposal, but I can only stress that it wouldn't be my intent.
I did as you asked however and looked at your profile. I saw that you are from Austin, and imho, that brings you up on my 'cool people' list - as I grew up there as well. So, as a fellow Austinite, I will try to calm my harshness down if you will as well, because, when it boils down to it, we just have a different opinion as to the effect this 'complaint desk' idea would have. I doubt we can convince each other, but if it gives you any satisfaction, I am fully aware that my idea is going nowhere.
Might I make a suggestion, Zorgo? You are familiar with the ToS/RoC for this site, correct? And you do know that there are "troll", "flame", and "other" selections under that "report" button, right?
So, use the rules to your benefit. Make a thread titled "Current players only, discuss <______> here.".
Then, anyone who is a blatant troll, flamer, or wildly off topic can be justifiably reported and their post removed. You can make multiple threads, as long as they are not about the exact same thing, so you can cover all the bases of discussion. Then you've got what you want, while the rest of the forum user continue with what they want.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
how would you know. You have said yourself you have not played it. you play the game then comment ok
If the present game was any good then it would be published by MS right now and I might have played the game. However I've seen it played and that was enough, besides VG is one of the 3 most unpopular P2P MMOs for a good reason.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
how would you know. You have said yourself you have not played it. you play the game then comment ok
If the present game was any good then it would be published by MS right now and I might have played the game. However I've seen it played and that was enough, besides VG is one of the 3 most unpopular P2P MMOs for a good reason.
well per this website the worse MMOs are -
1 - Dark and Light
2 - Orge Island
3- Diamonin
Also you have "seen it played" - this means nothing so again you have proven you can not comment
please inform me where you find a poll that show VG in the bottom 3.
Thank you for continuing to prove you have no knowledge of this game and do not need to be in these forums making any type of comments.
Well on second thought... go ahead I know from now on where to get a good laugh when ever I see you posting since I will know it is from someone whose knowledge of this game is equal to that of a gnat.
A MMO is like life. It is something to cherish and enjoy upon in it journey. So why race to the end of it. In life at the end you die.
Sorry if I touched a nerve there, no offence intended. I was giving my personal opinion of where VG is in MMO popularity right now, since DnL is F2P that doesn't count and I don't see the other two listed as MMOs on this site but I'll take a closer look sometime. Amongst P2P games I'd say VG rates in the popularity stakes alongside MXO, Planetside, FoM and AA. The difference is that VG has a ghastly reputation in the MMO world which I believe is that factor that will get it shut down, the game itself isn't all that bad now. However the drama that went on since release has dealt it a death blow, it's like taking a hard uppercut to the jaw from Mike Tyson in his prime. You might get up again but if you do it's almost certain you were counted out long ago.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
VG is still a new game it had a lot of bugs when it was rushed out and a lot of people gave up on it then. But they have gotten a lot of those out and as far as I have seen the game is improving. Reminds me of EQ 1 when it first came out. I for one hope they will continue working on it and that players will give it another chance. It is a very interesting format with the crafting, diplomacy, and the other areas of advancement. As far as the population i think that will start to come back up as they work out the bugs and advertise it. I know i am enjoying it and hope it has a long furture ahead just like EQ 1 did.
Is it really healthy to find another forum because quite a few people look to poke this game because the mess it was released in and the stupid level of hype it recieved? I think we all agree that the game was not released in a timely or well fashion. The current mess its in is due to this.
Anyways particapte in the forum and pick and chosoe what you reply to. But the truth is both this forums and the official VG ones are full of bitter dissapointment on many issues. Any VG forums is for a while at least gonna have this feel as it represents both the feelings of people that left and those playing who are miffed with upcoming changes ( i.e. RP server merge on offical board is alughable and tragic).
Splitting forums based on opinions is kind of defeating the point.
So OP is proposing the creation of a Vanbois forum? yeah ... erm ... right ... hahahahahahahahaaa
So it is laughable to suggest a Vanbois forum, but somehow not laughable for this to be a VG hate fest forum (which we all know it is)....I laugh at the current forum's state hahahahahahahahaha - and your post exposes why.
But seriously, that isn't what I suggested at all, and thru the discussion on this thread it developed into a totally different idea...but you wouldn't know because you just like to take pot shots at not only the game but the players as well.
But the original idea wasn't a Vanbois forum, as much as that tickles you, it was a forum where players could discuss the game, warts and all, there would be plenty of dissent and controversy in that forum, I was just trying to give the people who like to 'point and laugh' in every thread a place where they could point and laugh without interuption so that the actual players of the game could have a real discussion forum and not have to deal with crap like your post.
But rest assured, this idea is going nowhere, so this forum will remain in your hating hands, maybe I should suggest a simple renaming of the forum, because this is not a General Discussion about VG, it is a General Disgust of VG, there apparently isn't a forum for people who actually play the game - funny, cuz I thought that's what this website was suppose to be about.
Is it really healthy to find another forum because quite a few people look to poke this game because the mess it was released in and the stupid level of hype it recieved? I think we all agree that the game was not released in a timely or well fashion. The current mess its in is due to this.
Anyways particapte in the forum and pick and chosoe what you reply to. But the truth is both this forums and the official VG ones are full of bitter dissapointment on many issues. Any VG forums is for a while at least gonna have this feel as it represents both the feelings of people that left and those playing who are miffed with upcoming changes ( i.e. RP server merge on offical board is alughable and tragic).
Splitting forums based on opinions is kind of defeating the point.
I understand your point, and in spirit agree with it. I never meant to suggest that a VG Players forum would not be fraught with controversy, as your example of the official forums points out. I do however see a distinct difference in the tone of those forums compared to this.
Here the hate runs so deep that the dissenters have completely drowned out actual players of the game, who this forum is suppose to be for. I don't want to seperate the dissenters, I want to get rid of the people who not only mercilessly bash the game, but bash the people who play the game as well. I would like to be able to talk about VG's problems with people who don't punch below the belt and hijack ever VG thread to make sure we all know that 'VG Suxxors" and anyone who plays it is a 'Vanbois' ruining the mmo world for everyone else.
Since the idea of a complaint desk forum is obviously going nowhere, I am resigned that this forum will remain the worst example of how mmorpg.com has completely failed to provide players of a particular game with a constructive forum. I know the history of Vanguard created these haters, but mmorpg has allowed them to rule the forum. Welcome to the VG forums, General Disgust.
So, when I want to talk about the game I play, I have to go to a different site. The only thing this website is good for are those days when I feel like defending the game against rabid immovable haters. If this was the intent of this site, mission accomplished.
I agree with the OP, I am not playing Vanguard any longer (tried it again recently but couldnt take it), and I think the game is a failure.... but those who like it shouldnt have to put up with all the noise from those who dont... including me.
Grymm MMO addict in recovery! EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH, Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
But the original idea wasn't a Vanbois forum, as much as that tickles you, it was a forum where players could discuss the game, warts and all, there would be plenty of dissent and controversy in that forum, I was just trying to give the people who like to 'point and laugh' in every thread a place where they could point and laugh without interuption so that the actual players of the game could have a real discussion forum and not have to deal with crap like your post.
For what it's worth, the official Vanguard forums fit this description perfectly:
Posting is limited to active VG subscribers only. And while most of the people enjoy the game, and play it all the time, there are still debates and disagreements over the direction of the game, and how it will change and evolve over time.
I think that's what you've been looking for all along. It's not something you're going to find at a public site like this one, but at SOE's forums, you should feel right at home.
So OP is proposing the creation of a Vanbois forum? yeah ... erm ... right ... hahahahahahahahaaa
So it is laughable to suggest a Vanbois forum, but somehow not laughable for this to be a VG hate fest forum (which we all know it is)....I laugh at the current forum's state hahahahahahahahaha - and your post exposes why.
But seriously, that isn't what I suggested at all, and thru the discussion on this thread it developed into a totally different idea...but you wouldn't know because you just like to take pot shots at not only the game but the players as well.
But the original idea wasn't a Vanbois forum, as much as that tickles you, it was a forum where players could discuss the game, warts and all, there would be plenty of dissent and controversy in that forum, I was just trying to give the people who like to 'point and laugh' in every thread a place where they could point and laugh without interuption so that the actual players of the game could have a real discussion forum and not have to deal with crap like your post.
But rest assured, this idea is going nowhere, so this forum will remain in your hating hands, maybe I should suggest a simple renaming of the forum, because this is not a General Discussion about VG, it is a General Disgust of VG, there apparently isn't a forum for people who actually play the game - funny, cuz I thought that's what this website was suppose to be about.
You want the creation of a new sub-forum for the 'haters'. In essence, this also brings into existance a 'Vanbois' forum. The entire idea is laughable. This is a website for discussion on Vanguard (positive AND negative).
The reason why there is so much disgust here and in other Vanguard forums is simple. Vanguard sucked so bad for the majority of people who EXPERIENCED it. The amount of hype and bullshit sprouted by the devs (still going on) AND the vanbois has turned Vanguard into the ENRON of the MMORPG world.
The reason why there is so much disgust here and in other Vanguard forums is simple. Vanguard sucked so bad for the majority of people who EXPERIENCED it. The amount of hype and bullshit sprouted by the devs (still going on) AND the vanbois has turned Vanguard into the ENRON of the MMORPG world.
The reason why there is so much disgust here and in other Vanguard forums is simple. Vanguard sucked so bad for the majority of people who EXPERIENCED it. The amount of hype and bullshit sprouted by the devs (still going on) AND the vanbois has turned Vanguard into the ENRON of the MMORPG world.
Don't think anything else can be said.
I love how smuggly both these were written. Unfortunately, if you had understood that the original complaint was against hearing the same arguments over and over again, then you would have realized that trying to have the last word with a rehashed argument we've heard a billion times (not only on the forum, but several times within this thread), just reinforces my initial premise, this forum is overrun by posts like this drowning out the actual players. What was especially nice was that you added an insult blanket statement to the entire VG community.
But the original idea wasn't a Vanbois forum, as much as that tickles you, it was a forum where players could discuss the game, warts and all, there would be plenty of dissent and controversy in that forum, I was just trying to give the people who like to 'point and laugh' in every thread a place where they could point and laugh without interuption so that the actual players of the game could have a real discussion forum and not have to deal with crap like your post.
For what it's worth, the official Vanguard forums fit this description perfectly:
Posting is limited to active VG subscribers only. And while most of the people enjoy the game, and play it all the time, there are still debates and disagreements over the direction of the game, and how it will change and evolve over time.
I think that's what you've been looking for all along. It's not something you're going to find at a public site like this one, but at SOE's forums, you should feel right at home.
The difference if one compares you to the by Zorgo called point and laugh crowd and you Lidane is that your points against and some of the few that you have had for Vanguard can be disgussed and argued.
People writing 'fail', 'learn to troll', 'said so' etc is not in any a voice needed regardless if it is a positive or negative view of Vanguard.
Yesterday a thread was deleted in which a guy was flamed for a post opposite to what it actually was posted in the end... Those thread's and post is nothing to hold on to, they are not discussing the games direction, not discussing changes of it.
They are just working the opposite direction of the famed freedom of speech, in that sence that it drowns out the discussion being made. To much static to filter. (I made this point before, to defend a democracy/freedom/freedom of speech you actually have to limit the democracy/freedom/freedom of speech. To many bad elements disrupts and take over hand.)
So yeah this is a public site and forum but what good is it with these things. I wouldn't mind if this forum would be divided into a specific ontopic offtopic for each game.
Splitting forums based on opinions is kind of defeating the point.
But splitting a forum based on flaming and trolling is on the other hand. Disagreing, arguing and different opinion is not flaming, pointing fingers or whatever.
Comments
But my main comp is broken, and I have nothing better to do......
.....but more seriously, that is what i am trying to decide. Whether I can actually effect change and make this a better site to visit or not. That is why i have been so diligent in my responses. I will give this up trust me, but I am trying to get a moderator to pay attention, because, I think I have made some valid arguments. I am probably wrong based on the responses I have to this thread. And therefore, you don't have to worry, you won't have to suffer me any more, and the failure that is this forum can become complete, you will be able to go ahead and change the name from 'Vanguard General Discussion' to 'Vanguard General Disgust' and you will be able to re-hash anti-VG arguments ad infinitum, because there will be no actual players left who feel comfortable discussing their game here anymore.
P.S. What does the H. in Jesus name stand for anyway? - Personally, I prefer 'Christ on a bicycle!' used in the same context
Ah, but you ARE trying to silence people. You're trying to sweep any and all criticism under the rug, or cast it aside as if it's something bad rather than just a difference of opinion.
All of the games on this site, with the singular exception of SWG, have one general discussion forum. The reason that SWG has that second forum is because the NGE really was such a massive, unprecedented change to an already established game. People literally saw years of work erased in an instant, and after they'd just shelled out full retail for a new expansion.
SWG's is a unique situation among MMO's, and one that created metric boatloads of bitterness and wank that still carry over to this day. That's why they have a second forum and the rest of the games don't. Even WoW only has one general discussion forum despite all the abuse that gets heaped on it by people around here. Why? Because it's never been in the same situation that SWG found itself in.
For every other game on this site, including WoW and Vanguard, the single discussion forums are enough. Positive, negative, and everything in between exists in all of them, and that's how it should be.
For example, my main game, as I've previously said, is City of Heroes/Villains. I've been playing it since closed beta, and have no intention of leaving the game until they finally turn the servers off. However, not everyone feels that way. Many consider the game repetitious and boring, and nothing but an annoying grind. And I remember quite a few massive flame wars when the devs changed the way people enhanced their powers by introducing a system of diminishing returns called Enhancement Diversification, and when they've made other unpopular changes to the game.
But you know what? In spite of those flame wars, or the complaints that people have about it, I still wouldn't want a separate complaint forum for CoH/CoV on this site. Why? Because it would be a lie.
I don't want people to get an incomplete picture of the game I've played for over 3 years now. I want them to see all sides of it, good, bad, and in between, and I want them to get opinions of all stripes. Let them read the flames as well as the praise, then make up their minds. That's the best way for people to decide if it's a game they want to invest their time and money into.
What you're wanting is nothing more than a whitewash for Vanguard. You're wanting to erase the history surrounding this game, and to pretend it doesn't exist. You can't do that. It isn't honest. Consumers should have every bit of information available to them, whether you like it or not.
Ah, but you ARE trying to silence people. You're trying to sweep any and all criticism under the rug, or cast it aside as if it's something bad rather than just a difference of opinion.
Really, I'm not, I just want a good forum for the complaints. So when you want to know the bad, you have a forum to click on. If they were to actually ban dissent and have it not be heard, I'd be screaming even louder than this. If your opinion is that the effect such a forum were to silence people, I cannot argue with that; I disagree, but I see where you are coming from.
All of the games on this site, with the singular exception of SWG, have one general discussion forum. The reason that SWG has that second forum is because the NGE really was such a massive, unprecedented change to an already established game. People literally saw years of work erased in an instant, and after they'd just shelled out full retail for a new expansion.
SWG's is a unique situation among MMO's, and one that created metric boatloads of bitterness and wank that still carry over to this day. That's why they have a second forum and the rest of the games don't. Even WoW only has one general discussion forum despite all the abuse that gets heaped on it by people around here. Why? Because it's never been in the same situation that SWG found itself in.
This again is quite a valid opinion. Again, I disagree, and do not think SWG should be considered a 'special' case, even considering its history, but it is certainly your right to feel so.
For every other game on this site, including WoW and Vanguard, the single discussion forums are enough. Positive, negative, and everything in between exists in all of them, and that's how it should be.
At the risk of re-hashing my tired argument, I think Vanguard is as much a special case as SWG, in that, the dissent is so pervasive, that the players are drowned out. I'm an equal opportunity person however, and realize that if its good for SWG, good for Vanguard, I think it should be good for all games.
For example, my main game, as I've previously said, is City of Heroes/Villains. I've been playing it since closed beta, and have no intention of leaving the game until they finally turn the servers off. However, not everyone feels that way. Many consider the game repetitious and boring, and nothing but an annoying grind. And I remember quite a few massive flame wars when the devs changed the way people enhanced their powers by introducing a system of diminishing returns called Enhancement Diversification, and when they've made other unpopular changes to the game.
I am a CoH/CoV fan as well. But I think they would benefit from a complaint desk too.
But you know what? In spite of those flame wars, or the complaints that people have about it, I still wouldn't want a separate complaint forum for CoH/CoV on this site. Why? Because it would be a lie.
I wish you had said it like this a long time ago, we wouldn't have started slinging mud at each other.
I don't want people to get an incomplete picture of the game I've played for over 3 years now. I want them to see all sides of it, good, bad, and in between, and I want them to get opinions of all stripes. Let them read the flames as well as the praise, then make up their minds. That's the best way for people to decide if it's a game they want to invest their time and money into.
I disagree that it would give people a skewed picture. I see these forums as being like a big reference book with no topical lists. I really am just trying to catagorize the way people think about these games, without removing any of the content of the book.
What you're wanting is nothing more than a whitewash for Vanguard. You're wanting to erase the history surrounding this game, and to pretend it doesn't exist. You can't do that. It isn't honest. Consumers should have every bit of information available to them, whether you like it or not.
No, really that isn't what I want. I don't think it would be fair for anyone to not know what this games history has been. I just want the history divided into topical catagories. I want the arguments against Vanguard to be here, I just don't want them to drown out the discussion of the game's players. Because, I feel like there is history that is missing, the history of the fun many of us are having. I feel that we can't discuss our game freely for fear of our threads and posts being hijacked and shut down.
This I think is the best expression of your opinion yet, and I respect it fully. I feel like you've finally addressed my proposal, yet we share a differing opinion.
I'm not sure I can convince you that I really adamantly do not want to silence dissent. You may feel that would be the effect of my proposal, but I can only stress that it wouldn't be my intent.
I did as you asked however and looked at your profile. I saw that you are from Austin, and imho, that brings you up on my 'cool people' list - as I grew up there as well. So, as a fellow Austinite, I will try to calm my harshness down if you will as well, because, when it boils down to it, we just have a different opinion as to the effect this 'complaint desk' idea would have. I doubt we can convince each other, but if it gives you any satisfaction, I am fully aware that my idea is going nowhere.
Might I make a suggestion, Zorgo? You are familiar with the ToS/RoC for this site, correct? And you do know that there are "troll", "flame", and "other" selections under that "report" button, right?
So, use the rules to your benefit. Make a thread titled "Current players only, discuss <______> here.".
Then, anyone who is a blatant troll, flamer, or wildly off topic can be justifiably reported and their post removed. You can make multiple threads, as long as they are not about the exact same thing, so you can cover all the bases of discussion. Then you've got what you want, while the rest of the forum user continue with what they want.
Good suggestion, Zorvan
VG needs a new game, not a new forum.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
how would you know. You have said yourself you have not played it. you play the game then comment ok
A MMO is like life. It is something to cherish and enjoy upon in it journey. So why race to the end of it. In life at the end you die.
how would you know. You have said yourself you have not played it. you play the game then comment ok
If the present game was any good then it would be published by MS right now and I might have played the game. However I've seen it played and that was enough, besides VG is one of the 3 most unpopular P2P MMOs for a good reason.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
how would you know. You have said yourself you have not played it. you play the game then comment ok
If the present game was any good then it would be published by MS right now and I might have played the game. However I've seen it played and that was enough, besides VG is one of the 3 most unpopular P2P MMOs for a good reason.
well per this website the worse MMOs are -1 - Dark and Light
2 - Orge Island
3- Diamonin
Also you have "seen it played" - this means nothing so again you have proven you can not comment
please inform me where you find a poll that show VG in the bottom 3.
Thank you for continuing to prove you have no knowledge of this game and do not need to be in these forums making any type of comments.
Well on second thought... go ahead I know from now on where to get a good laugh when ever I see you posting since I will know it is from someone whose knowledge of this game is equal to that of a gnat.
A MMO is like life. It is something to cherish and enjoy upon in it journey. So why race to the end of it. In life at the end you die.
Sorry if I touched a nerve there, no offence intended. I was giving my personal opinion of where VG is in MMO popularity right now, since DnL is F2P that doesn't count and I don't see the other two listed as MMOs on this site but I'll take a closer look sometime. Amongst P2P games I'd say VG rates in the popularity stakes alongside MXO, Planetside, FoM and AA. The difference is that VG has a ghastly reputation in the MMO world which I believe is that factor that will get it shut down, the game itself isn't all that bad now. However the drama that went on since release has dealt it a death blow, it's like taking a hard uppercut to the jaw from Mike Tyson in his prime. You might get up again but if you do it's almost certain you were counted out long ago.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I agree with the OP. I think all three of the people who still like and play Vanguard should have their own forum.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
So OP is proposing the creation of a Vanbois forum? yeah ... erm ... right ... hahahahahahahahaaa
how would you know. You have said yourself you have not played it. you play the game then comment ok
He knows by the puny population of players, the fact it is going down to 4 servers (HAHAHA) and Brad being involved with it.
VG is still a new game it had a lot of bugs when it was rushed out and a lot of people gave up on it then. But they have gotten a lot of those out and as far as I have seen the game is improving. Reminds me of EQ 1 when it first came out. I for one hope they will continue working on it and that players will give it another chance. It is a very interesting format with the crafting, diplomacy, and the other areas of advancement. As far as the population i think that will start to come back up as they work out the bugs and advertise it. I know i am enjoying it and hope it has a long furture ahead just like EQ 1 did.
Hmmm...
Is it really healthy to find another forum because quite a few people look to poke this game because the mess it was released in and the stupid level of hype it recieved? I think we all agree that the game was not released in a timely or well fashion. The current mess its in is due to this.
Anyways particapte in the forum and pick and chosoe what you reply to. But the truth is both this forums and the official VG ones are full of bitter dissapointment on many issues. Any VG forums is for a while at least gonna have this feel as it represents both the feelings of people that left and those playing who are miffed with upcoming changes ( i.e. RP server merge on offical board is alughable and tragic).
Splitting forums based on opinions is kind of defeating the point.
But seriously, that isn't what I suggested at all, and thru the discussion on this thread it developed into a totally different idea...but you wouldn't know because you just like to take pot shots at not only the game but the players as well.
But the original idea wasn't a Vanbois forum, as much as that tickles you, it was a forum where players could discuss the game, warts and all, there would be plenty of dissent and controversy in that forum, I was just trying to give the people who like to 'point and laugh' in every thread a place where they could point and laugh without interuption so that the actual players of the game could have a real discussion forum and not have to deal with crap like your post.
But rest assured, this idea is going nowhere, so this forum will remain in your hating hands, maybe I should suggest a simple renaming of the forum, because this is not a General Discussion about VG, it is a General Disgust of VG, there apparently isn't a forum for people who actually play the game - funny, cuz I thought that's what this website was suppose to be about.
I understand your point, and in spirit agree with it. I never meant to suggest that a VG Players forum would not be fraught with controversy, as your example of the official forums points out. I do however see a distinct difference in the tone of those forums compared to this.
Here the hate runs so deep that the dissenters have completely drowned out actual players of the game, who this forum is suppose to be for. I don't want to seperate the dissenters, I want to get rid of the people who not only mercilessly bash the game, but bash the people who play the game as well. I would like to be able to talk about VG's problems with people who don't punch below the belt and hijack ever VG thread to make sure we all know that 'VG Suxxors" and anyone who plays it is a 'Vanbois' ruining the mmo world for everyone else.
Since the idea of a complaint desk forum is obviously going nowhere, I am resigned that this forum will remain the worst example of how mmorpg.com has completely failed to provide players of a particular game with a constructive forum. I know the history of Vanguard created these haters, but mmorpg has allowed them to rule the forum. Welcome to the VG forums, General Disgust.
So, when I want to talk about the game I play, I have to go to a different site. The only thing this website is good for are those days when I feel like defending the game against rabid immovable haters. If this was the intent of this site, mission accomplished.
I agree with the OP, I am not playing Vanguard any longer (tried it again recently but couldnt take it), and I think the game is a failure.... but those who like it shouldnt have to put up with all the noise from those who dont... including me.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Mods....I wouldn't mind if this thread were locked. The discussion is now just running in circles and going nowhere. I capitulate defeat.
For what it's worth, the official Vanguard forums fit this description perfectly:
forums.station.sony.com/vg/forums/list.m
Posting is limited to active VG subscribers only. And while most of the people enjoy the game, and play it all the time, there are still debates and disagreements over the direction of the game, and how it will change and evolve over time.
I think that's what you've been looking for all along. It's not something you're going to find at a public site like this one, but at SOE's forums, you should feel right at home.
But seriously, that isn't what I suggested at all, and thru the discussion on this thread it developed into a totally different idea...but you wouldn't know because you just like to take pot shots at not only the game but the players as well.
But the original idea wasn't a Vanbois forum, as much as that tickles you, it was a forum where players could discuss the game, warts and all, there would be plenty of dissent and controversy in that forum, I was just trying to give the people who like to 'point and laugh' in every thread a place where they could point and laugh without interuption so that the actual players of the game could have a real discussion forum and not have to deal with crap like your post.
But rest assured, this idea is going nowhere, so this forum will remain in your hating hands, maybe I should suggest a simple renaming of the forum, because this is not a General Discussion about VG, it is a General Disgust of VG, there apparently isn't a forum for people who actually play the game - funny, cuz I thought that's what this website was suppose to be about.
You want the creation of a new sub-forum for the 'haters'. In essence, this also brings into existance a 'Vanbois' forum. The entire idea is laughable. This is a website for discussion on Vanguard (positive AND negative).
The reason why there is so much disgust here and in other Vanguard forums is simple. Vanguard sucked so bad for the majority of people who EXPERIENCED it. The amount of hype and bullshit sprouted by the devs (still going on) AND the vanbois has turned Vanguard into the ENRON of the MMORPG world.
Don't think anything else can be said.
Don't think anything else can be said.
I love how smuggly both these were written. Unfortunately, if you had understood that the original complaint was against hearing the same arguments over and over again, then you would have realized that trying to have the last word with a rehashed argument we've heard a billion times (not only on the forum, but several times within this thread), just reinforces my initial premise, this forum is overrun by posts like this drowning out the actual players. What was especially nice was that you added an insult blanket statement to the entire VG community.Thank you for proving my point.
For what it's worth, the official Vanguard forums fit this description perfectly:
forums.station.sony.com/vg/forums/list.m
Posting is limited to active VG subscribers only. And while most of the people enjoy the game, and play it all the time, there are still debates and disagreements over the direction of the game, and how it will change and evolve over time.
I think that's what you've been looking for all along. It's not something you're going to find at a public site like this one, but at SOE's forums, you should feel right at home.
The difference if one compares you to the by Zorgo called point and laugh crowd and you Lidane is that your points against and some of the few that you have had for Vanguard can be disgussed and argued.
People writing 'fail', 'learn to troll', 'said so' etc is not in any a voice needed regardless if it is a positive or negative view of Vanguard.
Yesterday a thread was deleted in which a guy was flamed for a post opposite to what it actually was posted in the end... Those thread's and post is nothing to hold on to, they are not discussing the games direction, not discussing changes of it.
They are just working the opposite direction of the famed freedom of speech, in that sence that it drowns out the discussion being made. To much static to filter. (I made this point before, to defend a democracy/freedom/freedom of speech you actually have to limit the democracy/freedom/freedom of speech. To many bad elements disrupts and take over hand.)
So yeah this is a public site and forum but what good is it with these things. I wouldn't mind if this forum would be divided into a specific ontopic offtopic for each game.
So shure why not put up a point and laugh forum.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
But splitting a forum based on flaming and trolling is on the other hand. Disagreing, arguing and different opinion is not flaming, pointing fingers or whatever.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"