i like pvp game .because there is dangerous erverywhere .thought the game is for fun. but if there is a challeage ,i think it is better for us .but i hate some players kill others for fun and prevent others for exploer the game. i feel like the war between guild in arrange such as guild war or city war.
I might get disliked for what I will now say but there was only one game which pvp I really loved, that MMO was Tibia. It hadnt got any factions system, RvR, arenas, honor points, frag counter or whatever... but it had dangerousness factor, risk, player made wars, conflicts- there were really no rules forced by game mechanics/system, rules were made by players for players. You could get killed on every step and than suffered some serious penalties. And I think thats why it was only game I made some real friends in, not guild/faction/alliance mates but friends.
What I don't like in PvP in the two last MMO I played (that's DAoC and LoTRO), it's that it's a RvR system, and basically based on raids. So the biggest raid wins, usually (I know, sometimes not, that's why I said usually). 40 people raid just smash 20 people raid. It just means, the raid leader need to invite as much as possible and not be ambushed by bigger raid.
Well, I don't see this as much fun at all, and pretty boring. The one PvP I liked, was the Bounty-hunter versus Jedi PvP system in SWG. There were some improvment to be done there, sure. But the fun was intense, hunting, or constantly being hunted. PvP happened almost everywhere, limited number of players involved, win/loss bonus (well, no bonus for Jedi!)
I hope to see this eventually in ST:O if the Hirogen make it in the game at a later stage
I like pvp with real risk involved. Getting killed and losing your armor/weapon/loot (or ship/mods in EVE Online) is whats fun. It makes people actually worry about going out.
Throwing your character into battle over and over with the only penalty being a little lost xp, or a short rez sickness is too easy and WoW-like.
Change is inevitable, except from vending machines.
PvP is an act; it is the one constant among all multiplayer games regardless of their design goals. It is competition, the inherent competition implied by setting two conscious minds in a controlled environment. What people speak of as PvP Games are systems of controlled competition, no more creative than the philosophical adaptation of bumper cars. Designed from the ground up to be an independently developed part of the game, a feature, PvP systems are the bane of the free formed world.
There is no PvP 'feature'; there is no honor point tracking, no grinding for PvP gear, no silly loot restrictions. No items of profound power or item grinds. There is no invisible hand to save you from the consequences of your actions; the retribution of angry players against you for your transgressions will be unfettered by game mechanics. No classes, no dependencies. Most importantly, there is nothing in the game that you must do to be successful. Everything is available, everything optional, and everything free. This isn't PvP, this is choice; this is freedom.
It is perhaps the truest form of a RPG. A novel of endless pages with no words beyond the title, where the living hedonic reflection of one's mind is haphazardly scrawled in the margins as hands of strangers feverishly scribble pieces of their own tattered realities on the pages. It is the one luxury of utter madness, and delivered without the consequence of delusion.
- Surly
This is a part of Surlys collumn on Darkfall Warcry (a mmorpg focused on competition and pvp). He sais; Pvp is an act, pvp is a system. Without that system you will have FFA 'PvP'. Thats what you may call freedom.
There used to be a time when mmorpgs punched you in the face and dared you to keep on paying the monthly fee. You would be slaughtered, you would loose your gear, you would loose your money - but in return you got something greater - Freedom.
You could build your own houses, make your own classes, capture your own mounts - destroy other players castels. But how come, that non of the newer mmos have these features? They offer the same the earlier games within pve - but the newer games dont feture this within freedom.
You could imagine that after 10 years of development since Ultima Online we would be further then this - but unfortunatley, we arrent.
The mmorpg market has taken a turn for the worse. You might even compare them with the McDonalds food chain. What we have here, is a very prominent figure in the industry espousing a view, to other industry representatives, that if you don't cater to the plebeians, you can't expect to be successful. It's kind of like the McDonald's strategy applied to online gaming. They serve cheap crappy food, but anyone can afford it (play it) and you probably don't even need to wear a shirt to get into the restaurant (you dont need any skill or learning curve). Maybe the service and the quality of the meal sucks, but it's familiar and you know you'll get the same crappy service all across the board. Billions get served.
Hopefully, one day. Games will be released with less restrictions - and more freedom. We have the capacity - but I wonder if anyone would even consider taking the risk of releasing a 5' star resturant in an McDonalds neighbourhood.
LOL thank you Kraenee for putting that guy in his place. That was the most lame post I've read in a long time.
Good addition Dr_Doom. I completely agree. When you risk losing something, it adds to the game. Just as in life things that are the most rewarding usually take some risk. To bad there are just way to many carebears out there. Hardcore gamers usually miss out on games that could have been really good because of them.
_______________________________________________
"Getting it is easy. Filling it with illegal substances and sending accross the border is not." -Ignignokt
You can treat people on your side of the racial divide with complete disdain and there are very few repurcussions. People camp out in battlegrounds nearly afk just to soak up a few points towards their next set of "PvP" gear. The social aspect of an MMOG really comes into play when what you do matters. I believe that there is a place for sandbox style games where people and clans can be accountable for their actions. I look forward to the time when there is a game that has great PvE content along with the ability to attack anyone at anytime with consequences. I also believe that the appeal is greater than most people think. I'm tired of running a PvE instance only to find the leader loot everything, turns to run and I can't do anything about it. I'm tired of players not participating and still being rewarded. I'm tired of being prevented from participating with the rest of a clan/guild because the instance is limited to 5, 10, 15 etc..Most of all, I'm just plain tired of the no risk environments that most games provide. Once games provide a situation where choices have risk, where risk can provide reward and where accountability is king then go ahead and sign me up.
i agree with everything Spawl said
I want a game where when i start playing, after a while i want the freedom to attack my group member for sayin "stfu, u dont kno how to play" lol
i was one of those people who loved playing EQ on Rallos Zek, one of the most famous hardcore pvp servers in the MMORPG genre, and i loved every minute of it. But it seemed people who joined the server, didnt realize that hey, i can be attacked at any time by anyone 6-10 levels above/below me, and that if i die, they can jack an item off of me. After a while people start complaining so much to Sony, they remove the server!
i think i speak for everyone who played on Rallos Zek, we were pretty pissed at what they did, and that we all long for that deep rooted pvp with a purpose. I remember the guild leader of the guild started to change the way he was running it, and so we basically protested, and tricked him into goin into a zone, and we jumped him. I miss being able to fight most the time with a reason, and at the same time with a consequence if u lose. If u win, there was always somebody later on down the line who was going to kill u when they see u. And that really mattered, because sooner or later jacking to many people really did catch up with u. WoW pvp servers suck to say the least. Im leveling, and getting murdered by high levels who can easily travel across the sea. I never get to fight a horde who is my level. Why is that? because they are to busy leveling where they are at. Its a really pathetic system they have goin on in WoW, but a really good PvE system. Rite now i play WoW until Age of Conan comes out!
RALLOS ZEK OWND!! EVRY1 GET AGE OF CONAN WHEN IT COMES OUT!
The mmorpg market has taken a turn for the worse. You might even compare them with the McDonalds food chain. What we have here, is a very prominent figure in the industry espousing a view, to other industry representatives, that if you don't cater to the plebeians, you can't expect to be successful. It's kind of like the McDonald's strategy applied to online gaming. They serve cheap crappy food, but anyone can afford it (play it) and you probably don't even need to wear a shirt to get into the restaurant (you dont need any skill or learning curve). Maybe the service and the quality of the meal sucks, but it's familiar and you know you'll get the same crappy service all across the board. Billions get served. Hopefully, one day. Games will be released with less restrictions - and more freedom. We have the capacity - but I wonder if anyone would even consider taking the risk of releasing a 5' star resturant in an McDonalds neighbourhood.
Haha yeah come to think of it, World of Warcraft, i got it, and i wasnt surprised with any new content... It reminded me of EQ1, but not as fun. Mainly because it was all to familiar, no new content whatsoever, and even the EQ world was better set up that WoW is. Im not bashing the game, but i even played Vanguard. That game was horrible, its like the mmorpg genre took a step back in time! I want that 5 star restaurant to open up in the McDonalds neighborhood. Once everyone gets the taste of it, they wont want to eat McDonalds ever again. I know i wouldnt. All they have to do is be sure everyone gets the taste, and if their going to lose a player - be sure to find out why. 15 bucks a month seems like the going rate.
I dont know much about how the whole system of producing a game works.. but i know this, the games that have came out suck, and i want a good one, and im willing to pay for what i play. The pay should = what i play, and 18 or so bucks a month is to much to play EQ1 but with crappier customization, worse pvp system, etc. etc. i could go on.. we all could
It looks like, Darkfall & Age of Conan are the 2 games im really looking forward too. but of course thats what i was saying about Vanguard, and Dark and Light, and many other games lol...
Best pvp mmo is EVE online , most of the other games have a pointless and very boring pvp . EVE pvp involves real RISK and that is the exactly reason of why alot of gamers dont like it .
I don't care for PvP myself, hardly ever take part in it at all. Cast whatever derogatory names you all have for people that prefer PvE you like. However, if I were to make a game with PvP I would think something like this would be a good plan:
First, have three different server sets. One for PvE, one for RvR and one for FFA PvP. There, now you can join whichever model you like most or all three if you want.
Second, Risk vs. Reward. Has no one thought of just letting the players themselves set it? You want to be able to lose all your money and gear? Fine put yourself on that setting and you can. You're taking a bigger risk though so you get bigger rewards for winning. Want no consequences? Put yourself on that setting. Grand, your rewards are minimal because your risks are less. The settings would be valid on both RvR and FFA PvP servers and fighting people that had a different setting than you wouldn't effect your rewards.
Third, skill based not class/level/gear based: Since you pick your level of risk you can hone your skills without risk if you want to and raise your risk level the better you get or the more hardcore you are.
Fourth, Rewards: Well, since class/level/gear doesn't matter in the PvP anyway, maybe points that allow you to obtain better gear or perks or even purchase exp in PvE. Higher risk level means more points. So what happens to your gear and money if you're on the highest risk level and you get beat. The winner doesn't get them, they're just gone. Shouldn't matter anyway since all that stuff doesn't effect PvP for either person and you'd take the same hit in PvE whether they're just gone or someone else has them. If you only play PvP? Well none of that gear stuff matters to you anyway.
Fifth, Objectives: Sure, have places to be taken over, strongholds to defend, etc. on both the RvR and PvP server sets. PvP server people can choose to go after objectives as a group/raid formed of their own accord without any artificial boundaries or just go beat on each other without any specific objective for any slight or perceived slight. RvR players can use the more structured setting to focus solely on objectives or faction wars.
Maybe I'm over simplifying this bacause I don't PvP myself. I don't know but this seems doable technologically and seems like it would play to at least most peoples playstyles and PvP preferences.
Comments
i like pvp game .because there is dangerous erverywhere .thought the game is for fun. but if there is a challeage ,i think it is better for us .but i hate some players kill others for fun and prevent others for exploer the game. i feel like the war between guild in arrange such as guild war or city war.
PvP is for thrill-seeker than doesnt want to get hurt physically :P
no real life consequence aside from possibly lost time from losing xp from death
yet all the fun and thrill from killing, or injuring another player.
I for one loves pvping, gives you something to do in a world where u just grind all day for pixel clothes and pixel %.
I might get disliked for what I will now say but there was only one game which pvp I really loved, that MMO was Tibia. It hadnt got any factions system, RvR, arenas, honor points, frag counter or whatever... but it had dangerousness factor, risk, player made wars, conflicts- there were really no rules forced by game mechanics/system, rules were made by players for players. You could get killed on every step and than suffered some serious penalties. And I think thats why it was only game I made some real friends in, not guild/faction/alliance mates but friends.
But all of this was few years ago.
FFA PvP above everything
Sorry for my eanglish.
What I don't like in PvP in the two last MMO I played (that's DAoC and LoTRO), it's that it's a RvR system, and basically based on raids. So the biggest raid wins, usually (I know, sometimes not, that's why I said usually). 40 people raid just smash 20 people raid. It just means, the raid leader need to invite as much as possible and not be ambushed by bigger raid.
Well, I don't see this as much fun at all, and pretty boring. The one PvP I liked, was the Bounty-hunter versus Jedi PvP system in SWG. There were some improvment to be done there, sure. But the fun was intense, hunting, or constantly being hunted. PvP happened almost everywhere, limited number of players involved, win/loss bonus (well, no bonus for Jedi!)
I hope to see this eventually in ST:O if the Hirogen make it in the game at a later stage
I like pvp with real risk involved. Getting killed and losing your armor/weapon/loot (or ship/mods in EVE Online) is whats fun. It makes people actually worry about going out.
Throwing your character into battle over and over with the only penalty being a little lost xp, or a short rez sickness is too easy and WoW-like.
Change is inevitable, except from vending machines.
PvP is an act; it is the one constant among all multiplayer games regardless of their design goals. It is competition, the inherent competition implied by setting two conscious minds in a controlled environment. What people speak of as PvP Games are systems of controlled competition, no more creative than the philosophical adaptation of bumper cars. Designed from the ground up to be an independently developed part of the game, a feature, PvP systems are the bane of the free formed world.
There is no PvP 'feature'; there is no honor point tracking, no grinding for PvP gear, no silly loot restrictions. No items of profound power or item grinds. There is no invisible hand to save you from the consequences of your actions; the retribution of angry players against you for your transgressions will be unfettered by game mechanics. No classes, no dependencies. Most importantly, there is nothing in the game that you must do to be successful. Everything is available, everything optional, and everything free. This isn't PvP, this is choice; this is freedom.
It is perhaps the truest form of a RPG. A novel of endless pages with no words beyond the title, where the living hedonic reflection of one's mind is haphazardly scrawled in the margins as hands of strangers feverishly scribble pieces of their own tattered realities on the pages. It is the one luxury of utter madness, and delivered without the consequence of delusion.
- Surly
This is a part of Surlys collumn on Darkfall Warcry (a mmorpg focused on competition and pvp). He sais; Pvp is an act, pvp is a system. Without that system you will have FFA 'PvP'. Thats what you may call freedom.
There used to be a time when mmorpgs punched you in the face and dared you to keep on paying the monthly fee. You would be slaughtered, you would loose your gear, you would loose your money - but in return you got something greater - Freedom.
You could build your own houses, make your own classes, capture your own mounts - destroy other players castels. But how come, that non of the newer mmos have these features? They offer the same the earlier games within pve - but the newer games dont feture this within freedom.
You could imagine that after 10 years of development since Ultima Online we would be further then this - but unfortunatley, we arrent.
The mmorpg market has taken a turn for the worse. You might even compare them with the McDonalds food chain. What we have here, is a very prominent figure in the industry espousing a view, to other industry representatives, that if you don't cater to the plebeians, you can't expect to be successful. It's kind of like the McDonald's strategy applied to online gaming. They serve cheap crappy food, but anyone can afford it (play it) and you probably don't even need to wear a shirt to get into the restaurant (you dont need any skill or learning curve). Maybe the service and the quality of the meal sucks, but it's familiar and you know you'll get the same crappy service all across the board. Billions get served.
Hopefully, one day. Games will be released with less restrictions - and more freedom. We have the capacity - but I wonder if anyone would even consider taking the risk of releasing a 5' star resturant in an McDonalds neighbourhood.
df.warcry.com/news/view/75175-RedMorgans-Column-What-Darkfall-Expects-of-You
http://df.warcry.com/news/view/73151-Surlys-Column-Sandbox
Alright alright alright, shake it shake it.
If Darkfall turns out to be STALKER of MMOs, it's gona be 9/10.
LOL thank you Kraenee for putting that guy in his place. That was the most lame post I've read in a long time.
Good addition Dr_Doom. I completely agree. When you risk losing something, it adds to the game. Just as in life things that are the most rewarding usually take some risk. To bad there are just way to many carebears out there. Hardcore gamers usually miss out on games that could have been really good because of them.
_______________________________________________
"Getting it is easy. Filling it with illegal substances and sending accross the border is not."
-Ignignokt
---Playing---
Asheron's Call
i agree with everything Spawl said
I want a game where when i start playing, after a while i want the freedom to attack my group member for sayin "stfu, u dont kno how to play" lol
i was one of those people who loved playing EQ on Rallos Zek, one of the most famous hardcore pvp servers in the MMORPG genre, and i loved every minute of it. But it seemed people who joined the server, didnt realize that hey, i can be attacked at any time by anyone 6-10 levels above/below me, and that if i die, they can jack an item off of me. After a while people start complaining so much to Sony, they remove the server!
i think i speak for everyone who played on Rallos Zek, we were pretty pissed at what they did, and that we all long for that deep rooted pvp with a purpose. I remember the guild leader of the guild started to change the way he was running it, and so we basically protested, and tricked him into goin into a zone, and we jumped him. I miss being able to fight most the time with a reason, and at the same time with a consequence if u lose. If u win, there was always somebody later on down the line who was going to kill u when they see u. And that really mattered, because sooner or later jacking to many people really did catch up with u. WoW pvp servers suck to say the least. Im leveling, and getting murdered by high levels who can easily travel across the sea. I never get to fight a horde who is my level. Why is that? because they are to busy leveling where they are at. Its a really pathetic system they have goin on in WoW, but a really good PvE system. Rite now i play WoW until Age of Conan comes out!
RALLOS ZEK OWND!! EVRY1 GET AGE OF CONAN WHEN IT COMES OUT!
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
Haha yeah come to think of it, World of Warcraft, i got it, and i wasnt surprised with any new content... It reminded me of EQ1, but not as fun. Mainly because it was all to familiar, no new content whatsoever, and even the EQ world was better set up that WoW is. Im not bashing the game, but i even played Vanguard. That game was horrible, its like the mmorpg genre took a step back in time! I want that 5 star restaurant to open up in the McDonalds neighborhood. Once everyone gets the taste of it, they wont want to eat McDonalds ever again. I know i wouldnt. All they have to do is be sure everyone gets the taste, and if their going to lose a player - be sure to find out why. 15 bucks a month seems like the going rate.
I dont know much about how the whole system of producing a game works.. but i know this, the games that have came out suck, and i want a good one, and im willing to pay for what i play. The pay should = what i play, and 18 or so bucks a month is to much to play EQ1 but with crappier customization, worse pvp system, etc. etc. i could go on.. we all could
It looks like, Darkfall & Age of Conan are the 2 games im really looking forward too. but of course thats what i was saying about Vanguard, and Dark and Light, and many other games lol...
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
Best pvp mmo is EVE online , most of the other games have a pointless and very boring pvp . EVE pvp involves real RISK and that is the exactly reason of why alot of gamers dont like it .
Whatever
I don't care for PvP myself, hardly ever take part in it at all. Cast whatever derogatory names you all have for people that prefer PvE you like. However, if I were to make a game with PvP I would think something like this would be a good plan:
First, have three different server sets. One for PvE, one for RvR and one for FFA PvP. There, now you can join whichever model you like most or all three if you want.
Second, Risk vs. Reward. Has no one thought of just letting the players themselves set it? You want to be able to lose all your money and gear? Fine put yourself on that setting and you can. You're taking a bigger risk though so you get bigger rewards for winning. Want no consequences? Put yourself on that setting. Grand, your rewards are minimal because your risks are less. The settings would be valid on both RvR and FFA PvP servers and fighting people that had a different setting than you wouldn't effect your rewards.
Third, skill based not class/level/gear based: Since you pick your level of risk you can hone your skills without risk if you want to and raise your risk level the better you get or the more hardcore you are.
Fourth, Rewards: Well, since class/level/gear doesn't matter in the PvP anyway, maybe points that allow you to obtain better gear or perks or even purchase exp in PvE. Higher risk level means more points. So what happens to your gear and money if you're on the highest risk level and you get beat. The winner doesn't get them, they're just gone. Shouldn't matter anyway since all that stuff doesn't effect PvP for either person and you'd take the same hit in PvE whether they're just gone or someone else has them. If you only play PvP? Well none of that gear stuff matters to you anyway.
Fifth, Objectives: Sure, have places to be taken over, strongholds to defend, etc. on both the RvR and PvP server sets. PvP server people can choose to go after objectives as a group/raid formed of their own accord without any artificial boundaries or just go beat on each other without any specific objective for any slight or perceived slight. RvR players can use the more structured setting to focus solely on objectives or faction wars.
Maybe I'm over simplifying this bacause I don't PvP myself. I don't know but this seems doable technologically and seems like it would play to at least most peoples playstyles and PvP preferences.