Reflexes aside, the prime domain of FPS is network latency. With "tab combat" latency isn't quite as important, because you're just clicking a skill and the game does the rest. If you have 1-3 secs of lag, you may or may not notice it, but it won't affect the overall gameplay or result of the combat encounter. However, a latency of 1 second in any FPS, you may as well just stand still with a "FREEBIE KILL" sign above your head.
Listening to one of the recent episodes of the VirginWorlds.com podcast where the hosts were at one of the sessions at GDC 2007, designers cited lag as one of the main reasons they don't use a more skill-based system. (And they were referring to player skill, not character skill -- which they believe the majority of players lack enough skill). Even with average to moderate lag, they applauded WoW for still being able to give an instant response (client-side anyway) so when you click a skill, you see it on your screen despite the fact that in reality it may have taken a bit more time for that data to reach the server.
Broadband is becoming more prevalent, but there are still players on slower connections. And even with broadband, look at the lag we get in MMORPG's where lots of players are around, such as Ironforge in WoW. Loading in all the players, their armor, weapons, etc. takes a toll. Now put that into a faster paced FPS environment where fast movement, aiming and shots are required. Good luck.
Even Huxley, which claims to be an MMOFPS, seems to be saying you'll queue for an arena, and the actual battles with be on a much smaller scale -- more like a traditional free to play FPS game. No huge open world free for all FPS battles there.
I hate to break it to you but as a fan of Stargate (and I mean a big masive fan) the only true way to do Stargate is as a FPS. Personally I think they should just creat a Single player game with the ability to do coop but thats just me. However if they do it any other way Stargate will bomb big time. The idea of entering the stargate Universe is to get in to the think of it, and the think of the story line. You can creat actions that allow for things like translating ancent Texts, figuring out what a device is, just like it is in the show, while still keeping it as a FPS.
I mean come on guys, do you really want to see stargate turned in to a game like WOW or Vanguard or CoX. Were all you do is click a series of buttons to engage in combat. That would be boring and remove the immersion of being in the Stargate Universe.
Point and click just plain sucks anymore... why people still enjoy it I will never know. They lack the action of a FPS and they automaticaly turn into a skill spam session , who can spam skills in the best order fastest. How is that fun?
And you call FPS kiddie mode lol, more like the other way arround. Give it a couple more years and your coordination will get better mabe after puberty lol. j/k dont get mad lol.
Seriously tho FPS offers more action and much more combat variations/possibilitys. Like Roma Victor combat, the game overall is lacking, but the combat is fun and fresh(altho could use some changes/additions) for the most part tho it is great, and I hope Stargate goes down that path instead of the same crap that we have thousands of already...
Think about it if they do go with point and click , it will be (without a doubt) just like VG and LOTR, the same dam thing that we already have with a new look... AGAIN. Not for me thanks. I want something new and fun to keep my intrests for a bit. BREAK THE MOLD PEOPLE!!
It's intended to be an mmoRPG, not a Battlefield clone. RPG's are for the most part about the story and being a part of a world you enjoy. This is partly what is wrong with mmorpg's nowadays, all the FPS people thinking it should just be a bunch of people online killing each other. There is a reason for the distinct difference between an mmoRPG and an online FPS. Because they are two totally different gamestyles, with two very different playerbases.
Also (this is in general, and not aimed at anyone in particular), it always cracks me up when someone says they play mmo's and then spout off Counter Strike and Battlefield as their mmo game experience.
you Sir clearly have no idea what you are talking about, so please keep those comments to yourself...and should i remind you that FPS's were the father of the gaming industry?! doom.wolfenstein eh??? that didnt involve killing people online and yes it did have a story...and as for the players bases please you'd be suprised in the number of people that do play both
Originally posted by Azou you Sir clearly have no idea what you are talking about, so please keep those comments to yourself...and should i remind you that FPS's were the father of the gaming industry?! doom.wolfenstein eh??? that didnt involve killing people online and yes it did have a story...and as for the players bases please you'd be suprised in the number of people that do play both
Really? Interesting, because I seem to recall reading about things like Pong, Space Invaders, Pac Man, Donkey Kong, Frogger, et al being the so-called "fathers of the gaming industry." Nah, apparently I must've read that in a tabloid if games weren't invented until Doom...
"you Sir clearly have no idea what you are talking about, so please keep those comments to yourself...and should i remind you that FPS's were the father of the gaming industry?! doom.wolfenstein eh???"
Oh... yeah... i agree, i can't think of any game created before wolfenstein... were there even computers before that?
you Sir clearly have no idea what you are talking about, so please keep those comments to yourself...and should i remind you that FPS's were the father of the gaming industry?! doom.wolfenstein eh??? that didnt involve killing people online and yes it did have a story...and as for the players bases please you'd be suprised in the number of people that do play both
Really? Interesting, because I seem to recall reading about things like Pong, Space Invaders, Pac Man, Donkey Kong, Frogger, et al being the so-called "fathers of the gaming industry." Nah, apparently I must've read that in a tabloid if games weren't invented until Doom...
your quite missing the point...no sense making points anyway
the chronicles of spellborn plays in third person shooter mode where u actually have to aim... i dont understand u dumbasses trying to give excuses for developers and their stupid "rpg" style fighting.. they only reason they do it is because they are lazy..
u guys must really like standing there and holding a mouse button down.. dumb fucks...
spellborn has exciting gameplay and is an rpg. and also uses wasd for movement adn teh mouse to aim.
everyone claims they want something new.. yet can't stray from the stupid ass fighting style in typical mmo.. if god of war ever fought like wow it would be shit..
the chronicles of spellborn plays in third person shooter mode where u actually have to aim... i dont understand u dumbasses trying to give excuses for developers and their stupid "rpg" style fighting.. they only reason they do it is because they are lazy..
u guys must really like standing there and holding a mouse button down.. dumb fucks...
spellborn has exciting gameplay and is an rpg. and also uses wasd for movement adn teh mouse to aim.
everyone claims they want something new.. yet can't stray from the stupid ass fighting style in typical mmo.. if god of war ever fought like wow it would be shit..
Hmm, based on this very post, I've seen the error of my ways. I have lived a life of sin until now, liking and actually enjoying traditional RPGs, because they were fun.
But now, I see the light. I have embraced FPS combat, because of this mans stunning and eloquent post. I wish I could post like this, and change the minds of millions.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment; We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Apparently this is a sensitive subject? As I here it, and this is just rumor mill, that the combat is going to be fast paced with rpg elements (ie die rolls and sticky targeting) with fps aim and fire with the die rolls controlling the to-hit and damage aspics. So, in short you all get what you want, mostly.
I love how people are saying the game will Bomb because of it being either FPS or point and click. Since you guys are omniscient and know the outcome for everything why are you bothering to argue about it? Shouldn't you already know which one it is and tell us already O great knowledgeable ones.
The game is going to play the same as any other RPG MMO, like WOW, EQ, COX, etc etc. They have stated this on the website. Will bomb yes I all ready know that. I'll even tell you why I think it will bomb.
Stargate is not like Star Trek in terms of popularity. It has a big fan base granted but its not any were near as massive as Star Trek. So most MMO players will not give a backwards eye glance to Stargate. Those who do will be the fans of the show and they will go in to it with certain expectations and when the game fails to deliver those expectations they will become disappointed and quit.
The Stargate universe as it was designed in the show really doesn't make for a good MMO. Its to story line driven action driven for that. You only have to look at games like EQ, COX, WOW and think of that in terms of Stargate and thats pretty much what you will be getting. Stargate should be a FPS at the very least.
I been watching stargate sense season 1 on showtime. I have all the DVD's, a poster that has been signed by all the Major Actors from SG-1 and some of the villians to (am in process of working on Atlantis). I have comics, novels, I even have a miltary jacket with SG-1 patches, so that should tell you how much of a fan of the show I am. However as much as I love the show I have flat out no intrest in play Stargate Worlds. The idea of turning stargate in to a point and click game is not only boring in my opinion but turns my stomach because I only need look at all the MMO to see what they will turn it in to.
My personal feeling is they should have just stuck with the single player game they were working on. Allow players to run the game in coop, creat user chat room so players could form up in to teams and go run coop. Then every so often release an expansion pack. I think the single player game should take players right around the time of the first EP in first season. The expansion packs should tell a side story to what we have all ready seen. That is how it should be done or at least a vague idea of how it should be done.
Mark my words all the guys sitting here saying they don't want it to be FPS will come back after the game is released and go this is frigen nothing like stargate this is boring. What you see and what you get are two different things. It wil be nothing like the Stargate show. They will have to sale out to make it work as an MMO. I have no plans of playing SGW.
It's supposed to be turn based, but it's supposed to be fasted paced. Even MMOFPSes are turnbased but there turns are much shorter. Stargate Worlds will also imploy tactics so levels will play a role, but they will not be a determining factor. IE: A level 40 can kill a level 50, because he used cover :P
Actually as stated in the last interview buddhy the game will have a combination of both keyboard targetting and target lock which althoguh is unfortunate in your case because that certainly states that its not going to be FPS in nature *which isn't really new news.. its been like that since at least last year* It might not though be too WoW like in combate nature .... but if you think of it the game is still RPG like .. wether its God of war *which unlike what you said is RPG like .. don't you upgrade your Character for combat skills ?* or Spellborn Each and every game has a RPG influence ...... Not to mention that usually in RPG games you do not hold down your mouse but actually click once in a while and also you quene out combate attacks ... althoguh FPS games do involve you holding the bouse buttons down.. so perhaps tahts what you are talking about
Actually as stated in the last interview buddhy the game will have a combination of both keyboard targetting and target lock which althoguh is unfortunate in your case because that certainly states that its not going to be FPS in nature *which isn't really new news.. its been like that since at least last year* It might not though be too WoW like in combate nature .... but if you think of it the game is still RPG like .. wether its God of war *which unlike what you said is RPG like .. don't you upgrade your Character for combat skills ?* or Spellborn Each and every game has a RPG influence ...... Not to mention that usually in RPG games you do not hold down your mouse but actually click once in a while and also you quene out combate attacks ... althoguh FPS games do involve you holding the bouse buttons down.. so perhaps tahts what you are talking about
I see the combat mechanics of this game being somewhat like those of Tabla Rasa. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing yet but I can say this. I will be trying this game regardless simply because I am a HUGE fan of the series. As long as the game doesn't TOTALLY suck they will be getting my money. I have always wanted to walk through a stargate
Oh so have all of use on the forums.. and actually I think that they thought of the combate mechanics before Tabula rosa did * but then of course when they announced that I was also a noob on the internet .. with dial up so I actuall haven't heard of Tabula rose until a couple of months ago * but yeah I beleive most of the views on the game at the moment are its stargate and I 'm gonna get it and play it unless if it sucks.. .which I hope is highly unlikly that it will sucks
Actually as stated in the last interview buddhy the game will have a combination of both keyboard targetting and target lock which althoguh is unfortunate in your case because that certainly states that its not going to be FPS in nature *which isn't really new news.. its been like that since at least last year* It might not though be too WoW like in combate nature .... but if you think of it the game is still RPG like .. wether its God of war *which unlike what you said is RPG like .. don't you upgrade your Character for combat skills ?* or Spellborn Each and every game has a RPG influence ...... Not to mention that usually in RPG games you do not hold down your mouse but actually click once in a while and also you quene out combate attacks ... althoguh FPS games do involve you holding the bouse buttons down.. so perhaps tahts what you are talking about
Doh ! *hits forhead* I forgot the quoting....... I was actually trying to comment on what the thread starter said not you Selmak.. oh and this is sledog on the forums
Actually that statment can be disproven, although most kids my age *15* would prefer a FPS some would like a traditional combat system.. and some like me really don't care what it is only if its done correctly
The question of First Person Shooter versus Point and Click is, as we have all witnessed here, is a matter of preference. Neither will make that big a difference except in how each party perceives its usefulness in combat situations. And in any MMORPG, the hope is that you will be doing more than fighting in the game, otherwise its just a multiplayer shooter or fighting game. It is not, by and large, a gameplay style that is dicated by age or by gender, and you do either genre a disservice by trying to separate them into who plays which one based on the age of the player or some other artificial construct.
If there is to be a discussion on the merits of 1st Person versus Point N' Click, then let there be discussion, agreements and disagreements, not degenerate into name calling or telling someone to 'shut up' because you don't agree with their point of view on the issue. I applaud those who are keeping the discussion on topic and rather civil, because you are truly interested in which combat style you wish to see in the game. We have to remember that this is a game in development, we're not talking about a game that is even in early beta trials yet, so the people saying that the game will fail just because of one element are a bit premature on that call and might find that whatever combat system they implement might not be as bad as they feel it thought it could be.
Lets keep the discussion civil and on topic and we all might learn something from each other.
The thing is that they could make it a FPS and still build in Game Mechanics that allow players to do other things, such as the ability to translate ancent Languges, or try and figure out a device, or to shut some thing down whatever the case maybe. To give you an even better example.
Let say your on mission to destroy a Goa'uld Mothership, now let say there is a force field blocking your path, so as the science geek its your job to bring the force field, mean while the rest of your team is giving you cover fire while you work.
Now to do this so that it stays a FPS but gives you controls to do things like that, all they have to do is creat a key that will allow you two instantly switch between two different mods, will call one combat mode and the other exploration mode. With the simple click of a button you can switch back and fourth between these modes.
Now this creats several fuctions, one it means groups will have to work together even more so. Two it gives it a more Stargate feel to it. The bottom line is Stargate is mixture of action and story line. Now forget the game play for second. The simple fact is Stargate Universe doesn't really make for good MMO, its not designed in such a way for it to be a good MMO. So in order to make it work as an MMO you have to change it to make it work.
The game will have its share of players but it won't even make a blip on rader in the end.
<p>i know its going to be fps because i saw some testers play it it was fps and besides the point and click idea allows u with no freedom in combat and is totally stupid</p>
Well you are going to be instanced onto different planets with maybe teams of 4 or 5.
and it wouldn't take them this long to create the game if it was simply point and click.
I also don't see how it could be point and click when 99% of your weapons are projectile.
clearly the style (refer to screenshots) is FPS, or at least TP(third person).
what do ppl expect when a new RPG is released they talk about "crappy point and click" being so lame, yet how else would you expect to play without extremely limiting yourself? if you aren't pointing and clicking, you aren't using a mouse. real gamers play any style and don't cry about it.
Comments
"Someday there is going to be a smart designer and they'll create a sci-fi MMORPG based loosely on FireFly!"
You wish has come true..
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72263-0.html
Good Journey
Loneshadow<Overlord>
Founder of the Dragon Lords
http://kinncaid.proboards20.com/index.cgi
Listening to one of the recent episodes of the VirginWorlds.com podcast where the hosts were at one of the sessions at GDC 2007, designers cited lag as one of the main reasons they don't use a more skill-based system. (And they were referring to player skill, not character skill -- which they believe the majority of players lack enough skill). Even with average to moderate lag, they applauded WoW for still being able to give an instant response (client-side anyway) so when you click a skill, you see it on your screen despite the fact that in reality it may have taken a bit more time for that data to reach the server.
Broadband is becoming more prevalent, but there are still players on slower connections. And even with broadband, look at the lag we get in MMORPG's where lots of players are around, such as Ironforge in WoW. Loading in all the players, their armor, weapons, etc. takes a toll. Now put that into a faster paced FPS environment where fast movement, aiming and shots are required. Good luck.
Even Huxley, which claims to be an MMOFPS, seems to be saying you'll queue for an arena, and the actual battles with be on a much smaller scale -- more like a traditional free to play FPS game. No huge open world free for all FPS battles there.
I hate to break it to you but as a fan of Stargate (and I mean a big masive fan) the only true way to do Stargate is as a FPS. Personally I think they should just creat a Single player game with the ability to do coop but thats just me. However if they do it any other way Stargate will bomb big time. The idea of entering the stargate Universe is to get in to the think of it, and the think of the story line. You can creat actions that allow for things like translating ancent Texts, figuring out what a device is, just like it is in the show, while still keeping it as a FPS.
I mean come on guys, do you really want to see stargate turned in to a game like WOW or Vanguard or CoX. Were all you do is click a series of buttons to engage in combat. That would be boring and remove the immersion of being in the Stargate Universe.
It's intended to be an mmoRPG, not a Battlefield clone. RPG's are for the most part about the story and being a part of a world you enjoy. This is partly what is wrong with mmorpg's nowadays, all the FPS people thinking it should just be a bunch of people online killing each other. There is a reason for the distinct difference between an mmoRPG and an online FPS. Because they are two totally different gamestyles, with two very different playerbases.
Also (this is in general, and not aimed at anyone in particular), it always cracks me up when someone says they play mmo's and then spout off Counter Strike and Battlefield as their mmo game experience.
you Sir clearly have no idea what you are talking about, so please keep those comments to yourself...and should i remind you that FPS's were the father of the gaming industry?! doom.wolfenstein eh??? that didnt involve killing people online and yes it did have a story...and as for the players bases please you'd be suprised in the number of people that do play both
Really? Interesting, because I seem to recall reading about things like Pong, Space Invaders, Pac Man, Donkey Kong, Frogger, et al being the so-called "fathers of the gaming industry." Nah, apparently I must've read that in a tabloid if games weren't invented until Doom...
Really? Interesting, because I seem to recall reading about things like Pong, Space Invaders, Pac Man, Donkey Kong, Frogger, et al being the so-called "fathers of the gaming industry." Nah, apparently I must've read that in a tabloid if games weren't invented until Doom...
your quite missing the point...no sense making points anyway
u guys must really like standing there and holding a mouse button down.. dumb fucks...
spellborn has exciting gameplay and is an rpg. and also uses wasd for movement adn teh mouse to aim.
everyone claims they want something new.. yet can't stray from the stupid ass fighting style in typical mmo.. if god of war ever fought like wow it would be shit..
Hmm, based on this very post, I've seen the error of my ways. I have lived a life of sin until now, liking and actually enjoying traditional RPGs, because they were fun.
But now, I see the light. I have embraced FPS combat, because of this mans stunning and eloquent post. I wish I could post like this, and change the minds of millions.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
The game is going to play the same as any other RPG MMO, like WOW, EQ, COX, etc etc. They have stated this on the website. Will bomb yes I all ready know that. I'll even tell you why I think it will bomb.
Stargate is not like Star Trek in terms of popularity. It has a big fan base granted but its not any were near as massive as Star Trek. So most MMO players will not give a backwards eye glance to Stargate. Those who do will be the fans of the show and they will go in to it with certain expectations and when the game fails to deliver those expectations they will become disappointed and quit.
The Stargate universe as it was designed in the show really doesn't make for a good MMO. Its to story line driven action driven for that. You only have to look at games like EQ, COX, WOW and think of that in terms of Stargate and thats pretty much what you will be getting. Stargate should be a FPS at the very least.
I been watching stargate sense season 1 on showtime. I have all the DVD's, a poster that has been signed by all the Major Actors from SG-1 and some of the villians to (am in process of working on Atlantis). I have comics, novels, I even have a miltary jacket with SG-1 patches, so that should tell you how much of a fan of the show I am. However as much as I love the show I have flat out no intrest in play Stargate Worlds. The idea of turning stargate in to a point and click game is not only boring in my opinion but turns my stomach because I only need look at all the MMO to see what they will turn it in to.
My personal feeling is they should have just stuck with the single player game they were working on. Allow players to run the game in coop, creat user chat room so players could form up in to teams and go run coop. Then every so often release an expansion pack. I think the single player game should take players right around the time of the first EP in first season. The expansion packs should tell a side story to what we have all ready seen. That is how it should be done or at least a vague idea of how it should be done.
Mark my words all the guys sitting here saying they don't want it to be FPS will come back after the game is released and go this is frigen nothing like stargate this is boring. What you see and what you get are two different things. It wil be nothing like the Stargate show. They will have to sale out to make it work as an MMO. I have no plans of playing SGW.
Actually as stated in the last interview buddhy the game will have a combination of both keyboard targetting and target lock which althoguh is unfortunate in your case because that certainly states that its not going to be FPS in nature *which isn't really new news.. its been like that since at least last year* It might not though be too WoW like in combate nature .... but if you think of it the game is still RPG like .. wether its God of war *which unlike what you said is RPG like .. don't you upgrade your Character for combat skills ?* or Spellborn Each and every game has a RPG influence ...... Not to mention that usually in RPG games you do not hold down your mouse but actually click once in a while and also you quene out combate attacks ... althoguh FPS games do involve you holding the bouse buttons down.. so perhaps tahts what you are talking about
I see the combat mechanics of this game being somewhat like those of Tabla Rasa. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing yet but I can say this. I will be trying this game regardless simply because I am a HUGE fan of the series. As long as the game doesn't TOTALLY suck they will be getting my money. I have always wanted to walk through a stargate
-Currently looking forward to FFXIV
-Currently playing EvE and Global Agenda
Oh so have all of use on the forums.. and actually I think that they thought of the combate mechanics before Tabula rosa did * but then of course when they announced that I was also a noob on the internet .. with dial up so I actuall haven't heard of Tabula rose until a couple of months ago * but yeah I beleive most of the views on the game at the moment are its stargate and I 'm gonna get it and play it unless if it sucks.. .which I hope is highly unlikly that it will sucks
P.S: This is Selmak on SGW forums
Doh ! *hits forhead* I forgot the quoting....... I was actually trying to comment on what the thread starter said not you Selmak.. oh and this is sledog on the forums
If your young FPS, if your old point and click.
MAGA
Actually that statment can be disproven, although most kids my age *15* would prefer a FPS some would like a traditional combat system.. and some like me really don't care what it is only if its done correctly
The question of First Person Shooter versus Point and Click is, as we have all witnessed here, is a matter of preference. Neither will make that big a difference except in how each party perceives its usefulness in combat situations. And in any MMORPG, the hope is that you will be doing more than fighting in the game, otherwise its just a multiplayer shooter or fighting game. It is not, by and large, a gameplay style that is dicated by age or by gender, and you do either genre a disservice by trying to separate them into who plays which one based on the age of the player or some other artificial construct.
If there is to be a discussion on the merits of 1st Person versus Point N' Click, then let there be discussion, agreements and disagreements, not degenerate into name calling or telling someone to 'shut up' because you don't agree with their point of view on the issue. I applaud those who are keeping the discussion on topic and rather civil, because you are truly interested in which combat style you wish to see in the game. We have to remember that this is a game in development, we're not talking about a game that is even in early beta trials yet, so the people saying that the game will fail just because of one element are a bit premature on that call and might find that whatever combat system they implement might not be as bad as they feel it thought it could be.
Lets keep the discussion civil and on topic and we all might learn something from each other.
The thing is that they could make it a FPS and still build in Game Mechanics that allow players to do other things, such as the ability to translate ancent Languges, or try and figure out a device, or to shut some thing down whatever the case maybe. To give you an even better example.
Let say your on mission to destroy a Goa'uld Mothership, now let say there is a force field blocking your path, so as the science geek its your job to bring the force field, mean while the rest of your team is giving you cover fire while you work.
Now to do this so that it stays a FPS but gives you controls to do things like that, all they have to do is creat a key that will allow you two instantly switch between two different mods, will call one combat mode and the other exploration mode. With the simple click of a button you can switch back and fourth between these modes.
Now this creats several fuctions, one it means groups will have to work together even more so. Two it gives it a more Stargate feel to it. The bottom line is Stargate is mixture of action and story line. Now forget the game play for second. The simple fact is Stargate Universe doesn't really make for good MMO, its not designed in such a way for it to be a good MMO. So in order to make it work as an MMO you have to change it to make it work.
The game will have its share of players but it won't even make a blip on rader in the end.
<p>i know its going to be fps because i saw some testers play it it was fps and besides the point and click idea allows u with no freedom in combat and is totally stupid</p>
Well you are going to be instanced onto different planets with maybe teams of 4 or 5.
real gamers play any style and don't cry about it.
and it wouldn't take them this long to create the game if it was simply point and click.
I also don't see how it could be point and click when 99% of your weapons are projectile.
clearly the style (refer to screenshots) is FPS, or at least TP(third person).
what do ppl expect when a new RPG is released they talk about "crappy point and click" being so lame, yet how else would you expect to play without extremely limiting yourself? if you aren't pointing and clicking, you aren't using a mouse.