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What do you think Hardcore PVP means?
vajuras
Member Posts: 2,860
I always considered a "Hardcore PVPer" someone that engages in PVP a -LOT-. You can be a Hardcore PVPer in World OF Warcraft, Dark Age of Camelot, or even Guild Wars.
Well, it appears some people make "assumptions" that Hardcore PVP means must have FFA PVP. So by their definition EVE would not fit right? FPS games would not fit either. FPS are fully dedicated to PVP and I love those dearly. I also love Guild Wars through and through for being so easy to jump into and kick butt (Even though I admit it is heavily instanced but its good for being what it is)
I've enjoyed PVP in many games like City of Heroes (suffers from imbalance bigtime tho), Guild WArs, FPS titles, etc. Really In think its just plain silly to say a Hardcore PVPer must embrace permadeath or open PVP. Sure I'll try anything and appreciate it for what it is but I also like a good game that just plains has great combat. Hell, City Of Heroes I thought had so much potential cause they downplay gear to zero
Comments
Can't have hardcore or "real" PvP without risk vs reward. WoW doesn't qualify as "real" PvP since there is no possibility of losing anything, not even experience.
FFA
Deathpenality (EXP loss, item loss)
PVPing all day in WoW where penality is non-existent =/= hardcore ... imo
It could be all three actually. It just matters what context you use it in.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
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I think a FFA PvP system game isnt required to be "hardcore", I think as long as its your main reason for playing a game you are hardcore. As for what I like out of PvP I think the ability to loot a player (or be looted) brings PvP, hmm, reality. I know the fact that someone may walk off with my T2 Cruise Missile launcher or gain someone else's puts a touch of urgency to a fight
hm, sounds like death penalty is the main chorus here yeah I must admit I do understand that point of view all too well seeing how much I love to play on servers with serious death penalties and consequences. last night played UO until I passed out. woke up and was staring down at my grave in ghost form lol
Imho
What is a Hardcore pvp player:
A real hardcore PVP player is a player who only cares about the competive nature of PVP. A real hardcore PVP players doesn't care about risk or reward, as long as s/he can enjoy the fight as much as possible.
Who are not hardcore pvp players:
People who, when discussing about pvp, are doing nothing but talking about risk vs reward and how the old school pvp was the best thing since sliced bread. Those people are usually not playing any MMO's and usually look forward to Darkfall, often descibing players who don't enjoy their style as "carebears". These are not hardcore pvp players, this is what is called a whiner.
What is a hardcore pvp game:
A game in which PVP is an important part of the game, such as Lineage 2, RF Online, Dark Age of Camelot
Does item looting has anything to do with a game being hardcore pvp or not? No. It doesn't.
some good points in there but pretty biased tho. PErsonally I like to make an 'impact' in PVP. This cannot be done without a death penalty. In guild wars my victims stay down unless rezzed by a teammate. In the risk PVP titles, my victims lose something discouraging them from coming back
PVP where people rez over and over like immortal gods all night long is really lame. In EVE last night our space got invaded and we slayed all our attackers. guess what they were like, "um gf bro".
If it was WoW they'd be like, "um, ima hit the angel and come right back". no impact, immortal pointless PVP
In FPS games we fight for a limited time. the losers really do 'lose'. That is what many games are missing
I like u posted your point of view but you seemed to misunderstand what makes PVP fun for many of us.
"Hardcore pvp" means l33tkidz pwning n00bs roflcopter 11!!1!1
I find it easier to define what I'd see as a hardcore PvP system in a game, than what a hardcore PvPer is (unless we just say that's what we call someone who enjoys PvP in a hardcore system).
For me, a hardcore system in mmorpgs would be one which is closer to real life, so you have real dangers most of the time, in terms of being robbed or killed by other players. In the extreme, this could include permadeath, but that would be a sure way of losing players. Penalties for dying would be expected though, such as being looted, experience loss, temporary skill loss etc.
The Free-For-All system is actually closer to what MUDs and early MMOs just did as a matter of course. It only has become "hardcore" because the mechanics have changed in more recent games to protect players from eachother. Personally, I think it's a pretty lazy fix and creating balance, consequences and ways to protect your favourite items would be a far better way to go.
Hardcore PvP means that dying has consequenses, such as looting. A hardcore PvPer is someone who doesn't start crying after losing, and also despises PvE.
most hard core PvP's are silly and self destructive in their own game designs. they only want player loot and experiance loss with no reason for having them, just to say they're there from the looks of it.
lets see
perma-death- the leveling would be less intensive than guildwars, which would scare off the favored targets of the softy-hard-core PvP'ers.
item-loss- most items and the near top tier items would not be very valuable to boot, and it'd likely be faster to craft the item yourself in the first place, than going through all the hunting motions.
experiance-loss- it's mainly a pain, and makes sense in very few designs. and is soo destructive that if it includes non-combat things people just make PvP alts to get around it, utterly defeating the purpose of it(basically ruining this aspect of the game, since some people risk everything they can, and others take an ace from their sleeve and put half as much in the pot).
item and experiance loss make a lot of sense in some games, but the goal of the item and experiance loss in the games isn't to get the lootz, it's to weaken your enemy faction hopefully into submission. item and experiance loss matter very little in just random fights unless you just want to randomly hurt people's characters.
which is another destructive thing about the hard-core PvP's, theres no roleplay in most of them. playing a brigiand does not include 'PWNED', it actually makes me pity you instead of pissing me off.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
despises PvE. now that is a silly stereotype. a hard-core PvP is someone who enjoys PvP that can have consequenses, and seeks out games that have such.
:takes a slight break to observe this creature:
as a matter of fact most hard-core PvP's I've met were more hard-core into PvE than most PvE'ers... something about getting those 5% advantages they found on a forum somewhere.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
There are three major types of PvPer:
1) The Gladiator: Likes the thril and challenge of open combat against willing opponents of any skill level, but best loves a fair fight where his skills can really be put to the test. The loot and scores and whatnot are trivial compared to the fight.
2) The Skydiver: Loves risk. Loves the possibility that he could, at any moment, lose everything he's worked for. Throws himself into battle feeling more alive than any other time in his life.
3) The Bully: This guy wants to fight everything he sees....no, he wants to KILL everything he sees. Use every exploit and trick in the book to slaughter anyone and anything that moves, especially if they're weaker. Likes the feeling of power over those that can't fight back
Each will give you a different definition.
Usually when people throw the term hardcore PvP around they are refering to FFA PvP with looting, maybe even perma-death. But really I see it more as a player personality thing, it is a very elitist attitude where you think you are better than other people because you waste more time in PvP and making your character 31337, it also lends itself to roving gank squads and general greifing, I would best summerize it into one word, tool. The game mechanics are not that important.
You can enjoy PvP imensely, you may even like FFA and Permadeath, but it is your attitude that makes you "hardcore," in my opinion.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Hardcore PvP is when you can be running around questing while you see a female elf saying "tee hee" thus confirming its a guy - and you can KILL EM and GANK HIM and GRIEF HIM for all of eternity, thats what I call hardcore pvp.
Open world pvp, anywhere, anytime.
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
I always felt a hardcore pvp game involved FFA PVP with few safe spots and some sort of painful looting and exp loss from death.
Therefore DAOC's FFA PVP servers (Mordred/Andred) didn't really qualify under this definition, but Shadowbane, AC, original UO and EVE do. (and EVE only when you are in 0.0 space). WOW, GW's, and others don't despite have a pvp element in them.
A hardcore game player could be anyone who devotes a lot of time to any particular aspect of the game, be it PVP or PVE..the only requirement is they spend much time becoming proficient at it.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
God you really made a bunch of good points there. A hardcore PvPer plays PvP for the thrill and enjoyment of the battle itself, and not for the risks/rewards.
There is no thrill to PvP without risk of loss. Zerging offers no challenge.
A hardcore PvP game to me is one that has PvP as its core focus and distances itself from the detrimental features typically found in PvE games such as levels, uber gear, and instancing.
I find eve pretty hardcore when it comes to PvP. While it is true there are 'Safe' security zones where newbies get swpawned initially. They are not 100% safe because someone can if they wanted to blow you up, of course the momemt they open fire the plice come over to teach you a lesson but it does still happen occasionally in eve.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
Its like saying there is no thrill in footboll if the loosing team doesnt reviece some kind of punishment
Perhaps we will see more games in the future that will employ 'logical' systems such as EVE
Hardcore PVP=
ASHERON'S CALL
nuff said
Original UO. Wild West feelings, where anybody can kill you, for any reason, at any time.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
* all with extreme high ranks
* all who after logging in game get instantly bombarded with 'inv me' or 'any space left?' whisps..
* if you having bunch of papers with names list and remarks all over the desk
* if you have only 1 mins for bio between two fights.
* if you eat and drink in front of keyboard
* if u know casting time for all spells of all class by instinct (at least most of them)
* etc... etc...
FFA PvP is Hardcore PvP but not one and only. I would like to say it's just a more masochistic way for PvPing.
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"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."