Anyway the devs say they've changed and they are gonna try to make things better, well you current players need to try to make them stick to their word. Keep bringing up qoutes from the past of what they've promised and try to get the game they keep promising you.
No amount of re-implemented stuff will tempt me back. Classic is all or nothing in my eyes, just waiting for the duck and then its yahoo time if they get it right.
The problem with SWG now is its a bad copy of and old tired game engine. People throw WoW's 9 mill subs out like thats Us number. The 9 mill sub is worldwide. In the Us the burning crusade sold a tad over 1.9 million copies. So its safe to say at least 1.5 mill of those subs are US gamers Right? Well the other 7+mill are asian or european players who have a totally different game style they enjoy(the typical loot level grinder type)
So trying to turn SWG into a WoW is why most of us dont play it. I cant stand level loot asian grinder games. Some do enjoy that type of game but i doubt the 500k players SWG once had do. SWG downfall came with early release and the over reaction of SoE/LA to change things far from the original games promise. So what im saying is the over revamping of SWG constantly(starting in beta mind you) continues to this day. The game has no clue what it wants to be.
Revamping it a third time adding back in alot that was removed but polishing it would be nice. But to remain on the course of trying to FIX a broke engine not many like is whats the real issue. They know what will really increase subs but either cant or wont do it. So instead of that they take old parts change it enough to call it new. Granted it might be better by its never as good as it once was.
SWG is gonna remain in its current state of being unfixable if the NGE remains the engine they build upon. Heck i hated the CU with a passion, but towards the end it got better. The NGE like the CU started out horrible but is still not good enough. Reguardless the game has gone through way to many changes( still on going lol) to the point were 1 week your able to do something and the next your broke or nerfed to uselessness.
The NGE may be improving but to me its just not fun. The combat and the GUI to the lame level system is just too broke for me to enjoy. If they could just bring back the original combat and profession system i could stomach SWG once again. But i think its too late and the new SWMMO is around the corner. That being said SWG is on life support until that time. But im sure the New game will be another version of WoW or EQ. Too bad everyone in the game industry thinks SWG failed cause of the gameplay and not the missmanagement by both LA and SoE.
Any way you look at it SoE has had over 4 years to improve it. In that 4 years all you see is more promises and less proof of those promises. Too bad cause it couldve been the best game out there to many players. Now its just a shell of its former self trying to find its place in the WoW world.
Not sure what you mean there. Those pets that were mounts still work, even though it's a bummer we can't get off them.
I had 2 pets, a pre-CU Bol and CU feathered reptile, trained in a wide variety of abilities. I even had my Bol fighting for me back in Nov-Dec '05; not terribly effective, of course, but CL10 was a lot higher than a CL1 crafter. Among their other talents, they were trained to carry a rider. So what are they now? A couple of very slow vehicles that just happen to bear some resemblance to animals, and nothing more.
Not sure what you mean there. Those pets that were mounts still work, even though it's a bummer we can't get off them.
I had 2 pets, a pre-CU Bol and CU feathered reptile, trained in a wide variety of abilities. I even had my Bol fighting for me back in Nov-Dec '05; not terribly effective, of course, but CL10 was a lot higher than a CL1 crafter. Among their other talents, they were trained to carry a rider. So what are they now? A couple of very slow vehicles that just happen to bear some resemblance to animals, and nothing more.
Not sure what you mean there. Those pets that were mounts still work, even though it's a bummer we can't get off them.
I had 2 pets, a pre-CU Bol and CU feathered reptile, trained in a wide variety of abilities. I even had my Bol fighting for me back in Nov-Dec '05; not terribly effective, of course, but CL10 was a lot higher than a CL1 crafter. Among their other talents, they were trained to carry a rider. So what are they now? A couple of very slow vehicles that just happen to bear some resemblance to animals, and nothing more.
I find it interesting that people who admittedly left, and will never go back.. Are claiming they know the activity on the Servers.
Claims like "There's nobody in the cities" aren't helping your arguments - because quite simply, the play hasn't been IN Cities for quite some time. If you were actually IN the game, you'd know that,
Hate the game, hate the company - but don't go around making claims you have no backing for. Fisher made statements of facts backed by an NDA - So I would tend to believe HIS version of things.
I find it interesting that people who admittedly left, and will never go back.. Are claiming they know the activity on the Servers.
Claims like "There's nobody in the cities" aren't helping your arguments - because quite simply, the play hasn't been IN Cities for quite some time. If you were actually IN the game, you'd know that,
Hate the game, hate the company - but don't go around making claims you have no backing for. Fisher made statements of facts backed by an NDA - So I would tend to believe HIS version of things.
Well last checked based on the statements made by the president of the company along the lines of "I am making server merging a priority" still stands until I see him post somthing different in the forums.
I would pretty much say that he is wanting to do that not based on a large population.
So in short, I myself would base that on logic and common sense.
Not to mention, what it would take for Smedley to say that statement and actually post it.
But yeah, we could all be crazy and the game be full....lol (Somthing tells me it's not though lol)...
_________________________________________________________ lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
Smedley said the thing about server mergers when he was being pressed by fans at the FIRST influencers summit. It seems they have rethought that objective since then, thankfully.
According to a recent interview with Smedley on game daily Biz, the game has about 100K active subs, and subs are up 10% since the last two pubs.
DeadMeat (Lorin Jameson) stated at the Fan Faire that they are no longer looking at server merers, mostly due of course to the fact that this is a game with virtual property, and would like to concentrate on getting players back rather than forcing server mergers. Free server transfers are also in the future so if players WANT to shift to servers with greater pop densities, they can.
Whatever they are doing now, it's working. Fans, both those of you who left, and those of us who stayed, have worked together to get a partial return of what we all wanted. The ones who left comvinced them that to "NGE" a game is a huge mistake, and now probably no other game company will ever make that mistake again. This is a great thing for the industry.
We who stayed convinced both LA and SOE that it was worth HAVING a Star Wars game. Had everyone left, and the game folded, they probably would have decided that's it, forget ANY Star Wars MMORPGs at all.
Now, not only do we have an SWG that is better than when the NGE was released, with a growing playerbase and financial viability. PLUS, the best news is that if all the rumors are true, we will also see a second Star Wars MMO in the future, probably developed by another company, but most likely SOE merely hosting the servers (note this is PURE SPECULATION based on the rumors, NOT something I heard at an Illuminati meeting).
Other than the apology that I think would be a good idea, it seems everyone learned the lessons they needed to learn, and all the games in question are/will be getting better, and no other company will screw it's customers so badly.
We won. For me, the war is over. I am happy to declare victory, enjoy the games I play, and look forward to future games.
Remember all this is subject to another outbreak of aggression, at which time, my plowshare can be easily respecced back into a sword
Smedley said the thing about server mergers when he was being pressed by fans at the FIRST influencers summit. It seems they have rethought that objective since then, thankfully.
According to a recent interview with Smedley on game daily Biz, the game has about 100K active subs, and subs are up 10% since the last two pubs. DeadMeat (Lorin Jameson) stated at the Fan Faire that they are no longer looking at server merers, mostly due of course to the fact that this is a game with virtual property, and would like to concentrate on getting players back rather than forcing server mergers. Free server transfers are also in the future so if players WANT to shift to servers with greater pop densities, they can. Whatever they are doing now, it's working. Fans, both those of you who left, and those of us who stayed, have worked together to get a partial return of what we all wanted. The ones who left comvinced them that to "NGE" a game is a huge mistake, and now probably no other game company will ever make that mistake again. This is a great thing for the industry. We who stayed convinced both LA and SOE that it was worth HAVING a Star Wars game. Had everyone left, and the game folded, they probably would have decided that's it, forget ANY Star Wars MMORPGs at all. Now, not only do we have an SWG that is better than when the NGE was released, with a growing playerbase and financial viability. PLUS, the best news is that if all the rumors are true, we will also see a second Star Wars MMO in the future, probably developed by another company, but most likely SOE merely hosting the servers (note this is PURE SPECULATION based on the rumors, NOT something I heard at an Illuminati meeting). Other than the apology that I think would be a good idea, it seems everyone learned the lessons they needed to learn, and all the games in question are/will be getting better, and no other company will screw it's customers so badly. We won. For me, the war is over. I am happy to declare victory, enjoy the games I play, and look forward to future games. Remember all this is subject to another outbreak of aggression, at which time, my plowshare can be easily respecced back into a sword
First off ..lol at that..
If this game has 100k subs... then they are including all station pass and anyone that left and paid for a year because there is no way that some of those servers have any activity.
YAY -- the NGE was the glowing path of WHAT NOT TO DO as we all told them... no shit no game company would follow them lol .... what logical person would as well? I mean really if you had a company would you do what they did??? I don't know anyone that would.
Yes -- You may have a better SWG since the NGE launched -- BUT HOW HARD IS THAT?????????????????????
How hard is it to improve from complete garbage??? Again........ common sense and logic play into this.... when you are at the bottom of the bucket the only way to go --- is guess??? UP .... So yes... that statement could be true as well and by golly -- a year and half later how great is that to be able to say that ??? (LOL???) Anyone else see how twisted that is???? "Yes -- for a year and a half we failed but we finally are getting it right... please pat us on the back and follow us over the cliff." Tell ya what... I will base my facts on history, what has happend so far 90% of the time with the managment of this game and the fact they still do not get it.
Nothing was won...lol almost 2 years after the NGE and its failure and trainwreck of Dev teams, people, issues... from the awards, to the press to the population... THERE IS NOTHING TO BE PROUD of whatsoever...
Unless your standards are much lower then most... then I may understand this. I for one know what the product was like prior, I know what it is like now........... I know how many people are playing (NOT STATION PASSES) and do not try to tell people the game is filling up. Becuase that is pretty much another -- trick statement. Example: There was about a month or so ago 5 people in Coronet on Flurry -- NOW there is 10 !!!!!! So one could say -- there is a 100% increase in players....lol (Which is the ole Dev speak) again.... so yeah... I know that all to well.
Based on the size of the Dev team, the marketing of the product... (Not even selling at EB games near where I live outside of Chicago) and the fact they now do things with a small team and still have not fixed things that most games would have never even launched with as a issue) I can safely say the game is done. It has subs based on IP -- not game success, not complexity or some breakthrough gameplay.
What the fans -- (Yes the majority -- the other 200k that left) WANT or wanted back was a pre-CU game more or less, time and itme again.. you see that... it was said --- "Pre-CU" for the win is what the players wanted and worked for... Not the "What is left of the playerbase that will do and accept anything the dev team gives them"... playerbase whom wanted free Jedi, no decay, things given faster and with ease (Ala your NGE at launch and then on)....
I mean really.... here is what this looks like:
"Hi I'm SOE/SWG sorry I made 1757 mistakes, please accept what I did... pay no attention to it... sorry for taking your money, sorry for making all your efforts and time mean crap, now play this 3rd new version now and accept it and praise us for it K thx bye."
Well, fool me once, ok -- foll me twice, no-- and fool me yet again with a touch of lying -- naa, I'll take it for what it really is and stand clear and make sure others know the truth behind the product.
It is funny though..... some of the things said and done were said at the first FAN FEST, then at the SUMMITS and now I see the same pep talk at this last one. It's kinda funny.
The WE part is out --- it may be a "YOU" --- But I promise you it is far from a "WE" won... comment. I was the "WE", my 500 man friends list that is still empty was the "WE", my player city that was capped out but now looks like the old west dead city was the "WE" the full cities like Coronet with over 500 people on Bria was the "WE", the FULL cantinas on Cornet, Naboo, Tat, Dant, and DATH! were the "WE", the hustle and buslte through Endor, Lok were the "WE" --- those are and were the "WE"... the ones that did not ask for this to happen, the ones that did not want it to happen and voiced thier opinions to Smedley and the team on the boards while getting banned for saying "PRE-CU" FTW... those are the "WE"..... not the ones that say "Well beastmaster just saved the game" ----- sorry .. those are far from the "WE".......
The "WE" I know quit the game... all 200k of us give or take....the ones that funded this mess and were the ones misslead in the first place. I admit in Beta , Kurt or any of us never thought this would have happend though... I sure as Hell know that.
_________________________________________________________ lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
We won only in the context I am speaking. We won because we now have a better game (agreed, not hard to do), we won because no one will ever do it again, we won because we do not live in a world where there will never be a Star Wars MMO.
To me, that's a clear win on several fronts, given what happened. Did it metaphysically rewrite time and take us all back then so that it never happened? Nope. But that is the product of magic and super science, not consumer warfare. Wars don't rewrite reality and take you back in time, they never do. If that's your definition of win, there is no win.
As to the numbers, who knows? I just go by the best available information at the time, always, no matter what. I take them all with grains of salt and caveats. Just sharing what I am seeing. Even if it's people paying and not playing, or station pas accounts, it is obviously up, and according to Smedley, who may be lying, up 10%, which is a substantial increase in any business chart.
All I know is that a lot more players have been in the game since these past two Chapters. Will that continue past the summer? Who knows? People in the game are showing that they like what is going on...I am watching, listening, and paying attention to what folks say on many servers, and that is my observation.
I find it interesting that people who admittedly left, and will never go back.. Are claiming they know the activity on the Servers.
Claims like "There's nobody in the cities" aren't helping your arguments - because quite simply, the play hasn't been IN Cities for quite some time. If you were actually IN the game, you'd know that,
Hate the game, hate the company - but don't go around making claims you have no backing for. Fisher made statements of facts backed by an NDA - So I would tend to believe HIS version of things.
I've taken EVERY free trial. I've taking an extra one as well. There is barely anyone playing.
50K at most.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Smedley said the thing about server mergers when he was being pressed by fans at the FIRST influencers summit. It seems they have rethought that objective since then, thankfully.
According to a recent interview with Smedley on game daily Biz, the game has about 100K active subs, and subs are up 10% since the last two pubs. DeadMeat (Lorin Jameson) stated at the Fan Faire that they are no longer looking at server merers, mostly due of course to the fact that this is a game with virtual property, and would like to concentrate on getting players back rather than forcing server mergers. Free server transfers are also in the future so if players WANT to shift to servers with greater pop densities, they can. Whatever they are doing now, it's working. Fans, both those of you who left, and those of us who stayed, have worked together to get a partial return of what we all wanted. The ones who left comvinced them that to "NGE" a game is a huge mistake, and now probably no other game company will ever make that mistake again. This is a great thing for the industry. We who stayed convinced both LA and SOE that it was worth HAVING a Star Wars game. Had everyone left, and the game folded, they probably would have decided that's it, forget ANY Star Wars MMORPGs at all. Now, not only do we have an SWG that is better than when the NGE was released, with a growing playerbase and financial viability. PLUS, the best news is that if all the rumors are true, we will also see a second Star Wars MMO in the future, probably developed by another company, but most likely SOE merely hosting the servers (note this is PURE SPECULATION based on the rumors, NOT something I heard at an Illuminati meeting). Other than the apology that I think would be a good idea, it seems everyone learned the lessons they needed to learn, and all the games in question are/will be getting better, and no other company will screw it's customers so badly. We won. For me, the war is over. I am happy to declare victory, enjoy the games I play, and look forward to future games. Remember all this is subject to another outbreak of aggression, at which time, my plowshare can be easily respecced back into a sword
$medders never actually said SWG NGE has over 100k, the interviewer just says it himself before the questions.
Basicly pulling facts from his arse to suger coat SWG NGE for $medders.
$med says 10% increase at one point of the interview, 10% of 10 is 1. So maybe SWG NGE has 1 more subscriber?
Smedley said the thing about server mergers when he was being pressed by fans at the FIRST influencers summit. It seems they have rethought that objective since then, thankfully.
According to a recent interview with Smedley on game daily Biz, the game has about 100K active subs, and subs are up 10% since the last two pubs. DeadMeat (Lorin Jameson) stated at the Fan Faire that they are no longer looking at server merers, mostly due of course to the fact that this is a game with virtual property, and would like to concentrate on getting players back rather than forcing server mergers. Free server transfers are also in the future so if players WANT to shift to servers with greater pop densities, they can. Whatever they are doing now, it's working. Fans, both those of you who left, and those of us who stayed, have worked together to get a partial return of what we all wanted. The ones who left comvinced them that to "NGE" a game is a huge mistake, and now probably no other game company will ever make that mistake again. This is a great thing for the industry. We who stayed convinced both LA and SOE that it was worth HAVING a Star Wars game. Had everyone left, and the game folded, they probably would have decided that's it, forget ANY Star Wars MMORPGs at all. Now, not only do we have an SWG that is better than when the NGE was released, with a growing playerbase and financial viability. PLUS, the best news is that if all the rumors are true, we will also see a second Star Wars MMO in the future, probably developed by another company, but most likely SOE merely hosting the servers (note this is PURE SPECULATION based on the rumors, NOT something I heard at an Illuminati meeting). Other than the apology that I think would be a good idea, it seems everyone learned the lessons they needed to learn, and all the games in question are/will be getting better, and no other company will screw it's customers so badly. We won. For me, the war is over. I am happy to declare victory, enjoy the games I play, and look forward to future games. Remember all this is subject to another outbreak of aggression, at which time, my plowshare can be easily respecced back into a sword
$medders never actually said SWG NGE has over 100k, the interviewer just says it himself before the questions.
Basicly pulling facts from his arse to suger coat SWG NGE for $medders.
$med says 10% increase at one point of the interview, 10% of 10 is 1. So maybe SWG NGE has 1 more subscriber?
I don't know, it looks like a fairly legitimate internet mag to me, I see very few if any ads that come from the game industry -- mostly standard car and coffee ads -- things that people who surf the internet might want, but not items that they write about, which is a pretty good sign that they aren't all that compromised, at least for ad sales.
Do you have any prior evidence that these guys make things up to sugarcoat things. I know I don't. Looks like background info he got for the piece, not something he just made up. Anyway if you have any information, please share it.
FM, I have had alot of respect for you in the past and have felt that we were on the same page. To that end:
This open "letter" you have written seems like hope for me, thanks for it. You put it VERY correctly when you said that it will take trust to get us back, SUSTAINED trust. This to me is the first baby step. I trust your words and hope they were speaking truths to you.
I have much hope that someday the profs and true individuality will return to SWG or any other game. I play games now that are weaker versions of what once was SWG. I would return in a second if part were brought back. As you stated we had lives there, property, shops, we NAMED the items we created we built lives...and they are gone now. I look forward to a time where they will return.
FM, I have had alot of respect for you in the past and have felt that we were on the same page. To that end: This open "letter" you have written seems like hope for me, thanks for it. You put it VERY correctly when you said that it will take trust to get us back, SUSTAINED trust. This to me is the first baby step. I trust your words and hope they were speaking truths to you. I have much hope that someday the profs and true individuality will return to SWG or any other game. I play games now that are weaker versions of what once was SWG. I would return in a second if part were brought back. As you stated we had lives there, property, shops, we NAMED the items we created we built lives...and they are gone now. I look forward to a time where they will return. Thanks for the reflections!!!
I have an enormous amount of respect for Fisher too. I think he has spoken lucidly, eloquently, and with great insight about the shortcomings of the SWG project. I can't count the number of times a critical juncture of this saga unfolded in public debate where I didn't even have a need to weigh in on it, because Fisher was already there speaking (my mind) clearly and powerfully on that given moment.
Having said that, what first baby step is it exactly that has occurred here that is worthy of being lauded? That Fisher met the Red names behind the keyboards and - surprise of surprises - they don't actually have red horns and tails? Listen: I'm glad any time the rhetoric can be dialed down a bit. Without dropping names, those of us in the Pre-CU veteran community have collectively been guilty of a lot of demonization over this, and in many Pre-CU community circles it still happens even today. But this influencer program of SOE's is nothing new. It's a tactic they have employed in the SWG community for years. There's nothing new here, and I can see no cause for any additional optimism above and beyond anything already applicable to SWG players 6, 12, or 24 months ago.
If there is a silver lining to Fisher's cartharsis, it's that there's a life lesson to be learned here for all of us on how easy it is to dehumanize other human beings with whom you have an issue, but no intimate and personal contact. Just think of all the spheres in RL where this occurs on a daily basis. Think about all the different ways we humans are factionalized. How much better could this Galaxy, not so long ago or far away be if we could all take a moment and realize there's another person on the other side of the story?
I guess if you want to take something away from Fisher's epiphany, why not let it be that?
First off, thanks guys for the wonderful compliments.
Second, my opinion of the game itself has been improving slowly, over time, as has been the opinion of many people playing it. Chapter 5, and re-engineering, has made crafted items better than loot at several levels of play, which has been good for the player economy.
The build-a-buff system, while somewhat more complicated that many players like, still adds much diversity to the game, and makes entertainers worth having around again. Also, the partial return of something similar to the old hybridization is also a good thing, which can be achieved by getting the right buffs on your combat ready ents and traders.
In Chapter 6, while I think they went overboard with the dificulty increase, we still see many vets being thankful that the "NGE Easy" game is over. The return of something like Creature Handling and Bio-engineering is more than good, it's been great for the game. It is now a vey complex minigame, and I know many players are enjoying it, and I see more vets every day from the old days logging in and trying it out.
Will those vets stay? Only time will tell. Either way, all these things are good things.
My opinion of the game and its state was improving already when I was offered the free trip to Vegas. My trip, and meeting those folks, only solidified what I had already seen online and in the game -- they know they screwed up with the NGE, and they are shifting focus to try and bring back whetever they can that we loved within the new system.
Would I rather have pre-CU? Of course.
Would I rather have even the CU? Damn straight.
That being said, once those are removed from the equation, what do I want? As much of my old game as I can have. That is what I am seeing them try, and I will be supportive of that endeavor, whether I get free trips or not.
Now all we need is a humble apology from Smedley. That would be a VERY smart move on his part....but ummm I think he is more proud than smart, which is indeed a pity.
Still, given all we have seen, and the lack of an apology from Smed, the best I can give them is guarded optimism, heavy emphasis on the guarded. IF people DO come back now, it will be rewarding good behavior, and hopefully will lead to more of the same.
First off, thanks guys for the wonderful compliments. Second, my opinion of the game itself has been improving slowly, over time, as has been the opinion of many people playing it. Chapter 5, and re-engineering, has made crafted items better than loot at several levels of play, which has been good for the player economy. we had this allready in a better system... The build-a-buff system, while somewhat more complicated that many players like, still adds much diversity to the game, and makes entertainers worth having around again. Also, the partial return of something similar to the old hybridization is also a good thing, which can be achieved by getting the right buffs on your combat ready ents and traders. So they removed buffs claimed how unbalaced it was and yet put it back in? Again redoing something that was done better in the 2 oter systems. In Chapter 6, while I think they went overboard with the dificulty increase, we still see many vets being thankful that the "NGE Easy" game is over. The return of something like Creature Handling and Bio-engineering is more than good, it's been great for the game. It is now a vey complex minigame, and I know many players are enjoying it, and I see more vets every day from the old days logging in and trying it out. And it will change again.. This issue and many like it change publish by publish. This reminded me of the Cu launch alot. The CH or beast mastery thing was a good attempt to bring back something. Problem is both professions were better back then IMO. The current one is more like WoW's hunter class than the old finda a baby, raise a baby. To me this is a pokemon+WoW rip. Not saying its bad at all, just more lets copy another game issue i have with the current SWG. Will those vets stay? Only time will tell. Either way, all these things are good things. Held me all of about 2 hours total. The same combat benny hill on crack and awefull 9 button target system kills it for me. Beta wasnt this bad IMO. My opinion of the game and its state was improving already when I was offered the free trip to Vegas. My trip, and meeting those folks, only solidified what I had already seen online and in the game -- they know they screwed up with the NGE, and they are shifting focus to try and bring back whetever they can that we loved within the new system. The game could only go up its sucked since pub 9 for alot of players. So their screwing up goes back to beta. New dev team same lack of structure and vision. They have been told what will keep and increase the player base. But like any child they just dont listen. They only hear what they think we want. 3 years and people still wanting a system thats dead and gone not tell anyone anything? Would I rather have pre-CU? Of course. Depends on which publish is used. Pub 8 with bug fixes to 13 yep. Would I rather have even the CU? Damn straight. Wow clones in SW clothing nah ill pass. This is were the game lost me and many others. Most of us played both games. But when many that left for WoW came back to the Cu they left again cause why play a bad copy of a polished game? Same with the NGE it is a bad copy of a polished game. The talent system is a direct knockoff. If youve played both its scarey how much the SWG Devs stole from WoW. Again my opinion. That being said, once those are removed from the equation, what do I want? As much of my old game as I can have. That is what I am seeing them try, and I will be supportive of that endeavor, whether I get free trips or not. So like many you settle for less cause you love Star Wars? Hmm bugs,more lag, low player base, broken UI and talent system. Wow its like paying for half a car with the promise of the motor and each part will come..eventually.. Now all we need is a humble apology from Smedley. That would be a VERY smart move on his part....but ummm I think he is more proud than smart, which is indeed a pity. Dont care at all about this. He is the guy who is so out of the loop its comical. He has no clue cause he is the boss. Like most bosses they know numbers and pie charts. Gameplay and fun are far from their priority list. Its about making the most money for the least effort. Still, given all we have seen, and the lack of an apology from Smed, the best I can give them is guarded optimism, heavy emphasis on the guarded. IF people DO come back now, it will be rewarding good behavior, and hopefully will lead to more of the same. Some may comeback most wont stay. The reason is the game has changed too much too often. That and the fact the game we all purchased and spent allmost 3 years in is gone( most of us were in beta long before it went live) The game offers the old players nothing at all. We have done most of it with better gameplay mechanics. Most of the content was the profession system. Most of us like to Earn our things and have lots of options. Why play something that is still in a beta state? Oh yeah its got Wookiee's..... I hope that clarifies things a bit better. No need to explain a thing. You like many will settle for words and promises cause you have met them face to face. Most of us have taken our money elsewere and have moved on to other games and such. As much as i love the Star wars world i honeslty find nothing FUN about the current game. I suppose its cause i played the best version and dont want to settle for a system that has been dumbed down. For me its not hate, im just tired of SWG moving far from the original game i purchased. I dont settle for things just because the IP is loved or something i grew up with. Im about gameplay and player choice. We had that once and it was decided we werent good enough customers. So they decided to remove what little support they had and move to a even smaller group. We all know SWG is in bad shape all the way around. So all i can say is Good luck fixing it back. Best wishes in bringing back the great community SoE decided didnt matter. Hindsight is allways 20/20 to bad they refuse to even put up a classic version. Im sure it would break 100k in one day lol.. Sorry Fish but there is nothing said to you that hasnt been said in the past. Promises and good intentions are fine and dandy. Actually seeing results and keeping those promises is something SoE's track record isnt known for. Same crap different team same issues. History repeats itself when you forget you past mistakes and do not learn from them. If they truely learned their lesson and wanted to fix things, there wouldve been a classic server up long ago. Sadly i highly doubt they can revive SWG if they continue to try to fix the NGE. The NGE is a bad engine all around to most. So i wish ya the best of luck on your conversion...
I am just as skeptical as you. Only truth over time will prove anything. All I can say now is subs are dramatically up (now that's not saying much since they lost so many), but old players are coming back, and new players are STAYING -- and that's the big surprise. Either way thanks for sharing. All information is good information.
I'm calling bullshit on this one Fish... I need to see proof of said increase, because here's what's problematic with that statement:
We all know we're playing World of Star Wars now, right? Why would anyone want to play a broken ripoff of WoW, when you can actually go and play WoW and possibly have a better in-game experience? The subs aren't up, Fish. The higher numbers are a direct result of the "pet pressure cooker" publish, and those that did come back to try it out are now gone again.
I'm sorry man, but I can't see your logic here. And no amount of info you might or might not be getting from $OE aboutsubs or anything would be accurate. They'd probably sell their own mothers out before they'd admit they made a mistake or give us the classic servers we've been wanting since the beginning of the NiGhtmarE.
It's not so much that folks like the WoW formula (they do), but that there's no better Sci Fi MMORPG out there now. EVE is perhaps the exception, but it's a different kind of game than your "traditional" MMORPG. As an added plus, WoW is peaking off and bleeding subscribers. It's nothing severe, but they're definitely not gaining new subs at the rate they were used to, not long ago.
As I've said on these boards, once more/better Sci Fi MMOs come along, SWG is in trouble.
Empirically speaking, I feel like I've got nothing to play right now because I want Sci Fi and don't want to go back to SOE/SWG. I'm pretty screwed.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Wow, took a weekend in Las Vegas to brainwash a man... Sad stuff...
Sure, the game has improved since November of 2005, HOW COULD IT NOT? SWG in November of 2005 was arguably the WORST MMO that ever existed. They had nowhere to go but up, up, up, up. Can't go lower than the bottom.
Fine dude, no one really cares if you make it your life mission to convert us to worship SOE and the NGE, etc, etc.
If there was another Sci-Fi game out that didn't suck, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Infinity looks GREAT. I also can't wait to see about the new one under development "Zuroth"... There are other... "Games" that shouldn't be that much longer until they are at least running at a Beta-state, which is what SWG STILL IS... A glorified Beta.
My point: Fine, spread the word that the game doesn't suck THAT bad anymore... You play SWG: NGE, I'll save my time and $$$ and play something that is actually FUN, and I truly WANT to play. With AoC, WAR, and others coming out, don't expect the 20,000 NGE'ers who would PREFER to play something better to stick around...
In a year hopefully we won't have to deal with this conversation as we will all be enjoying something better.
Now all we need is a humble apology from Smedley. That would be a VERY smart move on his part....but ummm I think he is more proud than smart, which is indeed a pity.
Still, given all we have seen, and the lack of an apology from Smed, the best I can give them is guarded optimism, heavy emphasis on the guarded. IF people DO come back now, it will be rewarding good behavior, and hopefully will lead to more of the same. I hope that clarifies things a bit better.
Being a CEO is not as easy as it sounds. I don't envy the guy's position at all; I never have. It's worse for him that he's a CEO of an entire gaming development/deployment branch as the work for smaller companies is pretty overwhelming on it's own.
The problem with being a CEO is that everyone takes his word as the word of God (metaphorically speaking, they're not far off). CEOs are primarily salesmen, so if they sell something wrong they still need to stand by the product. It looks worse for a salesman to sell a defective product and then turn around and say it is defective, rather than stand by the product to the bitter end.
I know, it sounds ass backwards -- and it is -- but that's how the capitalist world works. It's why good ole Smed still has a job.
The truth here can be seen in the backlash the CU and NGE received, and throughout the debacles he made a lot of crass assumptions that were ultimately turned against him. His word is used as "law" to prove things went bad and how bad they went (neglect of players, etc) and rarely in the good sense. Very few folks, if any, agree openly that the NGE was the best option for the game.
That said, an apology would really do nothing but "vindicate" everyone who's been against him. He's made attempts at apologies in the past, admitting that the NGE was more or less a mistake, but he can't really come out and say that he felt players were mistreated since that sets precedence for a lot more backlash. The most he can do is try to appease the vets in more subtle ways -- through these incremental reversions we've been seeing in the latest chapter(s) of SWG, listening to players, giving the development team(s) more room to operate with their specifications, etc.
The only true and acceptable apology -- the one that will practically forgive all sins -- is a classic server or two. I don't see it happening, but it really is all that simple. Hey, it worked for Mythic... and look where they are now.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Every time SOE had a big fat pipe they wanted to cram up where the sun don't shine on the players, we got these posts from "community representatives" on the forums.
I had my fun in SWG and it was over (and my sub) a long time ago. But seeing the OP's post sure brought back some memories.
Yeah, the devs are people--BFD. You want to be a shill--at least you're smart enough to get something for it. Most fanboys get nothing for all the time they spend hawking a game.
Anyway, just thought it was funny seeing that post. I wouldn't believe anything that person had to say ever again--much like the devs of SWG.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
Wow, took a weekend in Las Vegas to brainwash a man... Sad stuff... Sure, the game has improved since November of 2005, HOW COULD IT NOT? SWG in November of 2005 was arguably the WORST MMO that ever existed. They had nowhere to go but up, up, up, up. Can't go lower than the bottom. Fine dude, no one really cares if you make it your life mission to convert us to worship SOE and the NGE, etc, etc. If there was another Sci-Fi game out that didn't suck, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Infinity looks GREAT. I also can't wait to see about the new one under development "Zuroth"... There are other... "Games" that shouldn't be that much longer until they are at least running at a Beta-state, which is what SWG STILL IS... A glorified Beta. My point: Fine, spread the word that the game doesn't suck THAT bad anymore... You play SWG: NGE, I'll save my time and $$$ and play something that is actually FUN, and I truly WANT to play. With AoC, WAR, and others coming out, don't expect the 20,000 NGE'ers who would PREFER to play something better to stick around... In a year hopefully we won't have to deal with this conversation as we will all be enjoying something better.
My life mission goes a bit deeper than anything to do with an online game; I am merely sharing my thoughts, and you can't seem to be able to handle that, so much that you need to accuse me of being brainwashed. At any rate, thanks for the input, for what it's worth.
Now all we need is a humble apology from Smedley. That would be a VERY smart move on his part....but ummm I think he is more proud than smart, which is indeed a pity.
Still, given all we have seen, and the lack of an apology from Smed, the best I can give them is guarded optimism, heavy emphasis on the guarded. IF people DO come back now, it will be rewarding good behavior, and hopefully will lead to more of the same. I hope that clarifies things a bit better.
Being a CEO is not as easy as it sounds. I don't envy the guy's position at all; I never have. It's worse for him that he's a CEO of an entire gaming development/deployment branch as the work for smaller companies is pretty overwhelming on it's own.
The problem with being a CEO is that everyone takes his word as the word of God (metaphorically speaking, they're not far off). CEOs are primarily salesmen, so if they sell something wrong they still need to stand by the product. It looks worse for a salesman to sell a defective product and then turn around and say it is defective, rather than stand by the product to the bitter end.
I know, it sounds ass backwards -- and it is -- but that's how the capitalist world works. It's why good ole Smed still has a job.
The truth here can be seen in the backlash the CU and NGE received, and throughout the debacles he made a lot of crass assumptions that were ultimately turned against him. His word is used as "law" to prove things went bad and how bad they went (neglect of players, etc) and rarely in the good sense. Very few folks, if any, agree openly that the NGE was the best option for the game.
That said, an apology would really do nothing but "vindicate" everyone who's been against him. He's made attempts at apologies in the past, admitting that the NGE was more or less a mistake, but he can't really come out and say that he felt players were mistreated since that sets precedence for a lot more backlash. The most he can do is try to appease the vets in more subtle ways -- through these incremental reversions we've been seeing in the latest chapter(s) of SWG, listening to players, giving the development team(s) more room to operate with their specifications, etc.
The only true and acceptable apology -- the one that will practically forgive all sins -- is a classic server or two. I don't see it happening, but it really is all that simple. Hey, it worked for Mythic... and look where they are now.
A great many good CEOs have apologized to the public as part of a program to renew their company or a project their company screwed up and was trying to get back on track. There was an age of 'never apologize," but that's given way in this transparent society in which we now live. CEOs used to be able to hide behind corporate walls, but no longer. Information flies way to fast and cuts way to deep for that.
Admitting the NGE was a mistake is a coward's apology, not an apology -- it is being to proud to actually apologize, and makes him look weak. That is why I advocate a real apology, an addition to continuing to bring things back to the game that vets like. There are ways to apologize that don't set you up for backlash -- you just have to be smart about it.
I agree I would prefer a classic server, but what it a classic server was always doomed to operate at a loss? What if the game we loved was never profitable? I'm not saying that was the case, but it certainly seems feasable. When they talk about it being "impossible" that's what that always meant to me.
In that case an apology would be all that's left. I've said many times that it's not necessary (at least for me), but it would be a GOOD move, a smart move, as Jack Welch and other smart CEO's who know they messed up can attest to.
Comments
Anyway the devs say they've changed and they are gonna try to make things better, well you current players need to try to make them stick to their word. Keep bringing up qoutes from the past of what they've promised and try to get the game they keep promising you.
No amount of re-implemented stuff will tempt me back. Classic is all or nothing in my eyes, just waiting for the duck and then its yahoo time if they get it right.
The problem with SWG now is its a bad copy of and old tired game engine. People throw WoW's 9 mill subs out like thats Us number. The 9 mill sub is worldwide. In the Us the burning crusade sold a tad over 1.9 million copies. So its safe to say at least 1.5 mill of those subs are US gamers Right? Well the other 7+mill are asian or european players who have a totally different game style they enjoy(the typical loot level grinder type)
So trying to turn SWG into a WoW is why most of us dont play it. I cant stand level loot asian grinder games. Some do enjoy that type of game but i doubt the 500k players SWG once had do. SWG downfall came with early release and the over reaction of SoE/LA to change things far from the original games promise. So what im saying is the over revamping of SWG constantly(starting in beta mind you) continues to this day. The game has no clue what it wants to be.
Revamping it a third time adding back in alot that was removed but polishing it would be nice. But to remain on the course of trying to FIX a broke engine not many like is whats the real issue. They know what will really increase subs but either cant or wont do it. So instead of that they take old parts change it enough to call it new. Granted it might be better by its never as good as it once was.
SWG is gonna remain in its current state of being unfixable if the NGE remains the engine they build upon. Heck i hated the CU with a passion, but towards the end it got better. The NGE like the CU started out horrible but is still not good enough. Reguardless the game has gone through way to many changes( still on going lol) to the point were 1 week your able to do something and the next your broke or nerfed to uselessness.
The NGE may be improving but to me its just not fun. The combat and the GUI to the lame level system is just too broke for me to enjoy. If they could just bring back the original combat and profession system i could stomach SWG once again. But i think its too late and the new SWMMO is around the corner. That being said SWG is on life support until that time. But im sure the New game will be another version of WoW or EQ. Too bad everyone in the game industry thinks SWG failed cause of the gameplay and not the missmanagement by both LA and SoE.
Any way you look at it SoE has had over 4 years to improve it. In that 4 years all you see is more promises and less proof of those promises. Too bad cause it couldve been the best game out there to many players. Now its just a shell of its former self trying to find its place in the WoW world.
This one made me snort out my coffee. Sums it up briliantly. A signature waiting to happen lol
I had 2 pets, a pre-CU Bol and CU feathered reptile, trained in a wide variety of abilities. I even had my Bol fighting for me back in Nov-Dec '05; not terribly effective, of course, but CL10 was a lot higher than a CL1 crafter. Among their other talents, they were trained to carry a rider. So what are they now? A couple of very slow vehicles that just happen to bear some resemblance to animals, and nothing more.
I had 2 pets, a pre-CU Bol and CU feathered reptile, trained in a wide variety of abilities. I even had my Bol fighting for me back in Nov-Dec '05; not terribly effective, of course, but CL10 was a lot higher than a CL1 crafter. Among their other talents, they were trained to carry a rider. So what are they now? A couple of very slow vehicles that just happen to bear some resemblance to animals, and nothing more.
http://swgbeastmaster.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=f35c9d8a41d13a97f6e6fa491094918e&action=store
I had 2 pets, a pre-CU Bol and CU feathered reptile, trained in a wide variety of abilities. I even had my Bol fighting for me back in Nov-Dec '05; not terribly effective, of course, but CL10 was a lot higher than a CL1 crafter. Among their other talents, they were trained to carry a rider. So what are they now? A couple of very slow vehicles that just happen to bear some resemblance to animals, and nothing more.
http://swgbeastmaster.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=f35c9d8a41d13a97f6e6fa491094918e&action=store
I'm not sure what point, if any, you are making here.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I find it interesting that people who admittedly left, and will never go back.. Are claiming they know the activity on the Servers.
Claims like "There's nobody in the cities" aren't helping your arguments - because quite simply, the play hasn't been IN Cities for quite some time. If you were actually IN the game, you'd know that,
Hate the game, hate the company - but don't go around making claims you have no backing for. Fisher made statements of facts backed by an NDA - So I would tend to believe HIS version of things.
I would pretty much say that he is wanting to do that not based on a large population.
So in short, I myself would base that on logic and common sense.
Not to mention, what it would take for Smedley to say that statement and actually post it.
But yeah, we could all be crazy and the game be full....lol (Somthing tells me it's not though lol)...
_________________________________________________________
lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
According to a recent interview with Smedley on game daily Biz, the game has about 100K active subs, and subs are up 10% since the last two pubs.
DeadMeat (Lorin Jameson) stated at the Fan Faire that they are no longer looking at server merers, mostly due of course to the fact that this is a game with virtual property, and would like to concentrate on getting players back rather than forcing server mergers. Free server transfers are also in the future so if players WANT to shift to servers with greater pop densities, they can.
Whatever they are doing now, it's working. Fans, both those of you who left, and those of us who stayed, have worked together to get a partial return of what we all wanted. The ones who left comvinced them that to "NGE" a game is a huge mistake, and now probably no other game company will ever make that mistake again. This is a great thing for the industry.
We who stayed convinced both LA and SOE that it was worth HAVING a Star Wars game. Had everyone left, and the game folded, they probably would have decided that's it, forget ANY Star Wars MMORPGs at all.
Now, not only do we have an SWG that is better than when the NGE was released, with a growing playerbase and financial viability. PLUS, the best news is that if all the rumors are true, we will also see a second Star Wars MMO in the future, probably developed by another company, but most likely SOE merely hosting the servers (note this is PURE SPECULATION based on the rumors, NOT something I heard at an Illuminati meeting).
Other than the apology that I think would be a good idea, it seems everyone learned the lessons they needed to learn, and all the games in question are/will be getting better, and no other company will screw it's customers so badly.
We won. For me, the war is over. I am happy to declare victory, enjoy the games I play, and look forward to future games.
Remember all this is subject to another outbreak of aggression, at which time, my plowshare can be easily respecced back into a sword
fishermage.blogspot.com
First off ..lol at that..
If this game has 100k subs... then they are including all station pass and anyone that left and paid for a year because there is no way that some of those servers have any activity.
YAY -- the NGE was the glowing path of WHAT NOT TO DO as we all told them... no shit no game company would follow them lol .... what logical person would as well? I mean really if you had a company would you do what they did??? I don't know anyone that would.
Yes -- You may have a better SWG since the NGE launched -- BUT HOW HARD IS THAT?????????????????????
How hard is it to improve from complete garbage??? Again........ common sense and logic play into this.... when you are at the bottom of the bucket the only way to go --- is guess??? UP .... So yes... that statement could be true as well and by golly -- a year and half later how great is that to be able to say that ??? (LOL???) Anyone else see how twisted that is???? "Yes -- for a year and a half we failed but we finally are getting it right... please pat us on the back and follow us over the cliff." Tell ya what... I will base my facts on history, what has happend so far 90% of the time with the managment of this game and the fact they still do not get it.
Nothing was won...lol almost 2 years after the NGE and its failure and trainwreck of Dev teams, people, issues... from the awards, to the press to the population... THERE IS NOTHING TO BE PROUD of whatsoever...
Unless your standards are much lower then most... then I may understand this. I for one know what the product was like prior, I know what it is like now........... I know how many people are playing (NOT STATION PASSES) and do not try to tell people the game is filling up. Becuase that is pretty much another -- trick statement. Example: There was about a month or so ago 5 people in Coronet on Flurry -- NOW there is 10 !!!!!! So one could say -- there is a 100% increase in players....lol (Which is the ole Dev speak) again.... so yeah... I know that all to well.
Based on the size of the Dev team, the marketing of the product... (Not even selling at EB games near where I live outside of Chicago) and the fact they now do things with a small team and still have not fixed things that most games would have never even launched with as a issue) I can safely say the game is done. It has subs based on IP -- not game success, not complexity or some breakthrough gameplay.
What the fans -- (Yes the majority -- the other 200k that left) WANT or wanted back was a pre-CU game more or less, time and itme again.. you see that... it was said --- "Pre-CU" for the win is what the players wanted and worked for... Not the "What is left of the playerbase that will do and accept anything the dev team gives them"... playerbase whom wanted free Jedi, no decay, things given faster and with ease (Ala your NGE at launch and then on)....
I mean really.... here is what this looks like:
"Hi I'm SOE/SWG sorry I made 1757 mistakes, please accept what I did... pay no attention to it... sorry for taking your money, sorry for making all your efforts and time mean crap, now play this 3rd new version now and accept it and praise us for it K thx bye."
Well, fool me once, ok -- foll me twice, no-- and fool me yet again with a touch of lying -- naa, I'll take it for what it really is and stand clear and make sure others know the truth behind the product.
It is funny though..... some of the things said and done were said at the first FAN FEST, then at the SUMMITS and now I see the same pep talk at this last one. It's kinda funny.
The WE part is out --- it may be a "YOU" --- But I promise you it is far from a "WE" won... comment. I was the "WE", my 500 man friends list that is still empty was the "WE", my player city that was capped out but now looks like the old west dead city was the "WE" the full cities like Coronet with over 500 people on Bria was the "WE", the FULL cantinas on Cornet, Naboo, Tat, Dant, and DATH! were the "WE", the hustle and buslte through Endor, Lok were the "WE" --- those are and were the "WE"... the ones that did not ask for this to happen, the ones that did not want it to happen and voiced thier opinions to Smedley and the team on the boards while getting banned for saying "PRE-CU" FTW... those are the "WE"..... not the ones that say "Well beastmaster just saved the game" ----- sorry .. those are far from the "WE".......
The "WE" I know quit the game... all 200k of us give or take....the ones that funded this mess and were the ones misslead in the first place. I admit in Beta , Kurt or any of us never thought this would have happend though... I sure as Hell know that.
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lol @ rl_ _ _ shhh... kid gloves must stay on please,the truth may hurt.
We won only in the context I am speaking. We won because we now have a better game (agreed, not hard to do), we won because no one will ever do it again, we won because we do not live in a world where there will never be a Star Wars MMO.
To me, that's a clear win on several fronts, given what happened. Did it metaphysically rewrite time and take us all back then so that it never happened? Nope. But that is the product of magic and super science, not consumer warfare. Wars don't rewrite reality and take you back in time, they never do. If that's your definition of win, there is no win.
As to the numbers, who knows? I just go by the best available information at the time, always, no matter what. I take them all with grains of salt and caveats. Just sharing what I am seeing. Even if it's people paying and not playing, or station pas accounts, it is obviously up, and according to Smedley, who may be lying, up 10%, which is a substantial increase in any business chart.
All I know is that a lot more players have been in the game since these past two Chapters. Will that continue past the summer? Who knows? People in the game are showing that they like what is going on...I am watching, listening, and paying attention to what folks say on many servers, and that is my observation.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I've taken EVERY free trial. I've taking an extra one as well. There is barely anyone playing.
50K at most.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
$medders never actually said SWG NGE has over 100k, the interviewer just says it himself before the questions.
Basicly pulling facts from his arse to suger coat SWG NGE for $medders.
$med says 10% increase at one point of the interview, 10% of 10 is 1. So maybe SWG NGE has 1 more subscriber?
$medders never actually said SWG NGE has over 100k, the interviewer just says it himself before the questions.
Basicly pulling facts from his arse to suger coat SWG NGE for $medders.
$med says 10% increase at one point of the interview, 10% of 10 is 1. So maybe SWG NGE has 1 more subscriber?
I don't know, it looks like a fairly legitimate internet mag to me, I see very few if any ads that come from the game industry -- mostly standard car and coffee ads -- things that people who surf the internet might want, but not items that they write about, which is a pretty good sign that they aren't all that compromised, at least for ad sales.
Do you have any prior evidence that these guys make things up to sugarcoat things. I know I don't. Looks like background info he got for the piece, not something he just made up. Anyway if you have any information, please share it.
fishermage.blogspot.com
FM, I have had alot of respect for you in the past and have felt that we were on the same page. To that end:
This open "letter" you have written seems like hope for me, thanks for it. You put it VERY correctly when you said that it will take trust to get us back, SUSTAINED trust. This to me is the first baby step. I trust your words and hope they were speaking truths to you.
I have much hope that someday the profs and true individuality will return to SWG or any other game. I play games now that are weaker versions of what once was SWG. I would return in a second if part were brought back. As you stated we had lives there, property, shops, we NAMED the items we created we built lives...and they are gone now. I look forward to a time where they will return.
Thanks for the reflections!!!
I have an enormous amount of respect for Fisher too. I think he has spoken lucidly, eloquently, and with great insight about the shortcomings of the SWG project. I can't count the number of times a critical juncture of this saga unfolded in public debate where I didn't even have a need to weigh in on it, because Fisher was already there speaking (my mind) clearly and powerfully on that given moment.
Having said that, what first baby step is it exactly that has occurred here that is worthy of being lauded? That Fisher met the Red names behind the keyboards and - surprise of surprises - they don't actually have red horns and tails? Listen: I'm glad any time the rhetoric can be dialed down a bit. Without dropping names, those of us in the Pre-CU veteran community have collectively been guilty of a lot of demonization over this, and in many Pre-CU community circles it still happens even today. But this influencer program of SOE's is nothing new. It's a tactic they have employed in the SWG community for years. There's nothing new here, and I can see no cause for any additional optimism above and beyond anything already applicable to SWG players 6, 12, or 24 months ago.
If there is a silver lining to Fisher's cartharsis, it's that there's a life lesson to be learned here for all of us on how easy it is to dehumanize other human beings with whom you have an issue, but no intimate and personal contact. Just think of all the spheres in RL where this occurs on a daily basis. Think about all the different ways we humans are factionalized. How much better could this Galaxy, not so long ago or far away be if we could all take a moment and realize there's another person on the other side of the story?
I guess if you want to take something away from Fisher's epiphany, why not let it be that?
SWG Team Mtg.
First off, thanks guys for the wonderful compliments.
Second, my opinion of the game itself has been improving slowly, over time, as has been the opinion of many people playing it. Chapter 5, and re-engineering, has made crafted items better than loot at several levels of play, which has been good for the player economy.
The build-a-buff system, while somewhat more complicated that many players like, still adds much diversity to the game, and makes entertainers worth having around again. Also, the partial return of something similar to the old hybridization is also a good thing, which can be achieved by getting the right buffs on your combat ready ents and traders.
In Chapter 6, while I think they went overboard with the dificulty increase, we still see many vets being thankful that the "NGE Easy" game is over. The return of something like Creature Handling and Bio-engineering is more than good, it's been great for the game. It is now a vey complex minigame, and I know many players are enjoying it, and I see more vets every day from the old days logging in and trying it out.
Will those vets stay? Only time will tell. Either way, all these things are good things.
My opinion of the game and its state was improving already when I was offered the free trip to Vegas. My trip, and meeting those folks, only solidified what I had already seen online and in the game -- they know they screwed up with the NGE, and they are shifting focus to try and bring back whetever they can that we loved within the new system.
Would I rather have pre-CU? Of course.
Would I rather have even the CU? Damn straight.
That being said, once those are removed from the equation, what do I want? As much of my old game as I can have. That is what I am seeing them try, and I will be supportive of that endeavor, whether I get free trips or not.
Now all we need is a humble apology from Smedley. That would be a VERY smart move on his part....but ummm I think he is more proud than smart, which is indeed a pity.
Still, given all we have seen, and the lack of an apology from Smed, the best I can give them is guarded optimism, heavy emphasis on the guarded. IF people DO come back now, it will be rewarding good behavior, and hopefully will lead to more of the same.
I hope that clarifies things a bit better.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I'm calling bullshit on this one Fish... I need to see proof of said increase, because here's what's problematic with that statement:
We all know we're playing World of Star Wars now, right? Why would anyone want to play a broken ripoff of WoW, when you can actually go and play WoW and possibly have a better in-game experience? The subs aren't up, Fish. The higher numbers are a direct result of the "pet pressure cooker" publish, and those that did come back to try it out are now gone again.
I'm sorry man, but I can't see your logic here. And no amount of info you might or might not be getting from $OE aboutsubs or anything would be accurate. They'd probably sell their own mothers out before they'd admit they made a mistake or give us the classic servers we've been wanting since the beginning of the NiGhtmarE.
It's not so much that folks like the WoW formula (they do), but that there's no better Sci Fi MMORPG out there now. EVE is perhaps the exception, but it's a different kind of game than your "traditional" MMORPG. As an added plus, WoW is peaking off and bleeding subscribers. It's nothing severe, but they're definitely not gaining new subs at the rate they were used to, not long ago.
As I've said on these boards, once more/better Sci Fi MMOs come along, SWG is in trouble.
Empirically speaking, I feel like I've got nothing to play right now because I want Sci Fi and don't want to go back to SOE/SWG. I'm pretty screwed.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Wow, took a weekend in Las Vegas to brainwash a man... Sad stuff...
Sure, the game has improved since November of 2005, HOW COULD IT NOT? SWG in November of 2005 was arguably the WORST MMO that ever existed. They had nowhere to go but up, up, up, up. Can't go lower than the bottom.
Fine dude, no one really cares if you make it your life mission to convert us to worship SOE and the NGE, etc, etc.
If there was another Sci-Fi game out that didn't suck, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Infinity looks GREAT. I also can't wait to see about the new one under development "Zuroth"... There are other... "Games" that shouldn't be that much longer until they are at least running at a Beta-state, which is what SWG STILL IS... A glorified Beta.
My point: Fine, spread the word that the game doesn't suck THAT bad anymore... You play SWG: NGE, I'll save my time and $$$ and play something that is actually FUN, and I truly WANT to play. With AoC, WAR, and others coming out, don't expect the 20,000 NGE'ers who would PREFER to play something better to stick around...
In a year hopefully we won't have to deal with this conversation as we will all be enjoying something better.
Being a CEO is not as easy as it sounds. I don't envy the guy's position at all; I never have. It's worse for him that he's a CEO of an entire gaming development/deployment branch as the work for smaller companies is pretty overwhelming on it's own.
The problem with being a CEO is that everyone takes his word as the word of God (metaphorically speaking, they're not far off). CEOs are primarily salesmen, so if they sell something wrong they still need to stand by the product. It looks worse for a salesman to sell a defective product and then turn around and say it is defective, rather than stand by the product to the bitter end.
I know, it sounds ass backwards -- and it is -- but that's how the capitalist world works. It's why good ole Smed still has a job.
The truth here can be seen in the backlash the CU and NGE received, and throughout the debacles he made a lot of crass assumptions that were ultimately turned against him. His word is used as "law" to prove things went bad and how bad they went (neglect of players, etc) and rarely in the good sense. Very few folks, if any, agree openly that the NGE was the best option for the game.
That said, an apology would really do nothing but "vindicate" everyone who's been against him. He's made attempts at apologies in the past, admitting that the NGE was more or less a mistake, but he can't really come out and say that he felt players were mistreated since that sets precedence for a lot more backlash. The most he can do is try to appease the vets in more subtle ways -- through these incremental reversions we've been seeing in the latest chapter(s) of SWG, listening to players, giving the development team(s) more room to operate with their specifications, etc.
The only true and acceptable apology -- the one that will practically forgive all sins -- is a classic server or two. I don't see it happening, but it really is all that simple. Hey, it worked for Mythic... and look where they are now.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Every time SOE had a big fat pipe they wanted to cram up where the sun don't shine on the players, we got these posts from "community representatives" on the forums.
I had my fun in SWG and it was over (and my sub) a long time ago. But seeing the OP's post sure brought back some memories.
Yeah, the devs are people--BFD. You want to be a shill--at least you're smart enough to get something for it. Most fanboys get nothing for all the time they spend hawking a game.
Anyway, just thought it was funny seeing that post. I wouldn't believe anything that person had to say ever again--much like the devs of SWG.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
My life mission goes a bit deeper than anything to do with an online game; I am merely sharing my thoughts, and you can't seem to be able to handle that, so much that you need to accuse me of being brainwashed. At any rate, thanks for the input, for what it's worth.
Sad stuff indeed...
fishermage.blogspot.com
Being a CEO is not as easy as it sounds. I don't envy the guy's position at all; I never have. It's worse for him that he's a CEO of an entire gaming development/deployment branch as the work for smaller companies is pretty overwhelming on it's own.
The problem with being a CEO is that everyone takes his word as the word of God (metaphorically speaking, they're not far off). CEOs are primarily salesmen, so if they sell something wrong they still need to stand by the product. It looks worse for a salesman to sell a defective product and then turn around and say it is defective, rather than stand by the product to the bitter end.
I know, it sounds ass backwards -- and it is -- but that's how the capitalist world works. It's why good ole Smed still has a job.
The truth here can be seen in the backlash the CU and NGE received, and throughout the debacles he made a lot of crass assumptions that were ultimately turned against him. His word is used as "law" to prove things went bad and how bad they went (neglect of players, etc) and rarely in the good sense. Very few folks, if any, agree openly that the NGE was the best option for the game.
That said, an apology would really do nothing but "vindicate" everyone who's been against him. He's made attempts at apologies in the past, admitting that the NGE was more or less a mistake, but he can't really come out and say that he felt players were mistreated since that sets precedence for a lot more backlash. The most he can do is try to appease the vets in more subtle ways -- through these incremental reversions we've been seeing in the latest chapter(s) of SWG, listening to players, giving the development team(s) more room to operate with their specifications, etc.
The only true and acceptable apology -- the one that will practically forgive all sins -- is a classic server or two. I don't see it happening, but it really is all that simple. Hey, it worked for Mythic... and look where they are now.
A great many good CEOs have apologized to the public as part of a program to renew their company or a project their company screwed up and was trying to get back on track. There was an age of 'never apologize," but that's given way in this transparent society in which we now live. CEOs used to be able to hide behind corporate walls, but no longer. Information flies way to fast and cuts way to deep for that.
Admitting the NGE was a mistake is a coward's apology, not an apology -- it is being to proud to actually apologize, and makes him look weak. That is why I advocate a real apology, an addition to continuing to bring things back to the game that vets like. There are ways to apologize that don't set you up for backlash -- you just have to be smart about it.
I agree I would prefer a classic server, but what it a classic server was always doomed to operate at a loss? What if the game we loved was never profitable? I'm not saying that was the case, but it certainly seems feasable. When they talk about it being "impossible" that's what that always meant to me.
In that case an apology would be all that's left. I've said many times that it's not necessary (at least for me), but it would be a GOOD move, a smart move, as Jack Welch and other smart CEO's who know they messed up can attest to.
fishermage.blogspot.com