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Why all the SOE hate?
Panthersn
Member Posts: 25
Can someone please tell me why all the SOE hate? Please provide a detailed response not just usual SOE$$$. I started playing EQ around the time of Planes of Power and never really had any complaints with customer service or the product. I started playing EQII at release and again had no problems with customer service. I'm just curious why everyone posts that SOE has ruined whatever games they get involved with, and that they will never play a SOE product. If the game is good......they will come
Other games played:
WOW: no complaints, played for 6 months
DAOC: some problems getting account canceled
Guild Wars: no complaints, played for 4 months
COH: no complaints, played on and off for a year.
D&D online: played for a month, got billed for two months after canellation of account.
LOTR still playing, no problems with Turbine so far on this game.
Comments
"Their PS3 is a complete failure as of right now."
lol, i am not trying to start nothing or anything but Sony Online Entertainment has a lot to do with what Sony Computer Entertainment does, same company as a whole, but different division of the company. totally different things they both work on, think about what you say before you post there bud!
Most of the hate that people feel for SoE is linked to their treatment of customers and what they did to SWG. I am not going to go into detail on it as you only need to head over to the SWG board on this site for in depth discussions. In a nutshell however they completely ignored the feelings of the players and the feedback from the testers when first, they brought in the Cu ( combat upgrade) and then a short time later the NGE ( new game experience).
These two updates, especially the NGE completely changed trhe game. Players who had spent two years or more unlocking and building a Jedi suddenly found all their work thrown out of the window. The creature handlers and bio-engineers were thrown out completely and no longer existed etc. I myself had a master creature handler / master BE and overnight he vanished up SoE's orrifice. The guy in charge of DAoC at a game day conference even called this the biggest shaft of a player base ever and he was right.
Veteran players left the game in droves but SoE didn't care. Instead they took the stance that ne4w players would replace them and this is no way to treat your loyal fanbase that have supported you over many years. There are other things with SoE as well but the incidents with SWG started it all and showed up the Sony men in suits for what they were.
I still hate SOE over the SWG:NGE disaster, but I don't judge the Sony corporation as a whole since on their other products I do trust, and have no problem from their other divisions (electronics, PS2, etc...). The only one I have problem is SOE. Also this is a forum about MMORPG, and this thread is about SOE, not Sony as a whole. So get that through before mumbling stuff that make you sound like an idiot. You can have your opinion, but keep it within the general focus of the thread (SOE, not Sony).
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Anyway, SOE is a division of Sony Corporation, and is in no way representing the whole corporation (SOE represent the Online gaming side of the Sony Corporation, not the other way around). So if your PS3 is broken, do you call SOE to fix it? No, because they are a different division handling different focus. So if you are talking about one aspect of the focus (in this case the MMORPG part), you focus on SOE, not Sony.
Do you know how a corporation is run? Do you run a corporation yourself? Not every corporations runs the same way, and not all corporations would have a tight grip on all its division. It gets harder when the corporations grow bigger.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
I agree to the points in bold although Lucas Arts have a huge role to play in the screw up that SWG became, Lucas had control over direction and releases, SOE merely did their bidding and should have worked harder to stop Lucas having their way. I know nothing about Planetside and the PS3 is a Sony product and not an SOE product and although its not a complete failure it certainly hasn't done what Sony would have liked it to have done.
I beleive that we will see SOE publishing games more and more often, they have the deals in place with vendors for shelf space and the ability to package software for sale well and that takes a big financial burden off developers.
Yep, the ruined star wars galaxies -- and they admit as much. But, they're working to make the nge people happy.
I know nothing about Planetside.
It's unfortunate you've had a bad experience(s) with their customer service and they should strive to be perfect. Still, plenty of people seem to have no problems with SOE customer service and even those complaints filed with the Better Business Bureau have been resolved.
As far as releasing an expansion to get money and then changing the game.....you seem to have your history wrong. Yes, in fact the NGE was launched shortly after Trials of Obi-Wan was released BUT they refunded everyone's money for purchasing ToOW who did not want to play the NGE.
Don't care about the fan base? meh, it can be argued they are far more attentive to the fan's wishes and to quality control than they have been in the past. We can praise the SWG refugees as their sacrifice was not for naught.
Thanks for the honest answers. I havent played SWG so I was unaware of the problems, was the game released unfinished similar to Vanguard? With Lucas Arts leaving a mess for SOE to clean up? My only dealings with SOE have been with EQ & EQII, so I want to be optimistic about Gods and Heroes. The game titles I have been competly disapointed in were, D&D online, Dark and Light, & Irth. I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater............yet
SWG was indeed released buggy and unfinished. I left after the second month that's how disappointed I was with the game but that only makes me anti-SWG, not Anti-NGE/Anti-Sony. SOE eventually conducted 2 large scale revamps to the entire SWG game, most notably compacting 32 classes into something like 9 and making jedi a starting profession. Combat was dumbed down, etc. Many people who still loved SWG with all its bugs and lack of content were horrified, offended and so traumatically scarred that they still cry "bring back pre-cu servers", foaming at the mouth as they post anti-SOE rhetoric. Mind you, NGE has been here for almost 2 years now....
<Mod edit>I think it's you who need to think before saying anything. Not all Sony products are bad. You may have bad experiences with some of the products, but you can't say because of your experiences, that Sony is a bad company as a whole. There are millions of people who would agree with you, and there are millions of people who will disagree with you, and that's just based on their own opinion and experience.
I still hate SOE over the SWG:NGE disaster, but I don't judge the Sony corporation as a whole since on their other products I do trust, and have no problem from their other divisions (electronics, PS2, etc...). The only one I have problem is SOE. Also this is a forum about MMORPG, and this thread is about SOE, not Sony as a whole. So get that through before mumbling stuff that make you sound like an idiot. You can have your opinion, but keep it within the general focus of the thread (SOE, not Sony).
lol......the post that i was replying to which i didnt use a quote for which i should of was deleted, it was the one right above mine by "A55kicka" so my post makes no sense anymore so i can see how you took it as a flame to sony as a company as a whole, A55kicka said this to the op as to why all the soe hate "Their PS3 is a complete failure as of right now." i was trying to say that people dont hate soe because the ps3 is "a *complete* failure" according to "A55kicka". because soe has nothing to do with the ps3.......no, i love sony as a comany, i have a ps3 and play it more than my 360 now that it is getting some good games out for it that i want to play. and i wasnt pissed about the swg sisuation because i wasnt playing at the time that it happened.....i have played pre-nge and post-nge and i like both games....even though i perfer pre-nge.........but i dont hate any part of sony......so that is my bad man....sorry about that........lol!!!!!
I will agree with others that the one single incident that forever changed the way SoE is viewed as a gaming entity was the SWG fiasco. It was wrong, they know it and knew it at the time yet here it is today left in place as a living testiment to over confidence in their skewed market analysis of what "people want" in a game. I am sure if they could turn back the clocks it wouldn't have gone down that way. On the other hand it has made a great example to other companies of what not to do.
Why all the SOE hate?
Well it's because they don't really have that great of a track record with online games.
EQ1 - was a poorly implemented game, in that you would find a group and go stand in one spot for 4-6 hours killing the same mobs and spawn over and over.... talk about a waste of your life and time. It was probably the worst gaming mechanism in plkace for exping I've ever seen in an mmo ever.
SWG - well need I say anything?
Vanguard - need I say anything?
The Matrix Online - a disaster
EQ2 - a success - actually a decent game.
So as you can see SOE has more of a history of misses than hits. They really don't know what their doing, they don't care what customers want, they just make a game and assume people will play it.
I have to admit their new spy game looks like their actually going to make a good solid game. SOE may actually put out a winner despite themselves.
EQ1, I strongly disagree.
SWG - I agree somewhat, I also give at least 50% of this mess to LA.
Vanguard - Not developed by SoE
Matrix Online - Not Developed by SoE.
EQ2 - agree
So I think they have a decent record of hits vs misses based on games they developed.
EQ1, I strongly disagree.
SWG - I agree somewhat, I also give at least 50% of this mess to LA.
Vanguard - Not developed by SoE
Matrix Online - Not Developed by SoE.
EQ2 - agree
So I think they have a decent record of hits vs misses based on games they developed.
How can you strongly disagree about EQ1?
If you ever leveled up in the game you would know that the basic grouping strategy of EQ1 was to get a group, move to a zone, find an exp spot, get a puller, pull mobs to that spot and kill them. and then pull and kill again. In fact in many zones you just couldn't exp any other way or you would wipe.
Were there different elements of game play, yes, but that was the defacto lvling up strategy, unless you were a strong solo class like a necro or beastlord - but even then if you wanted to raid it was back to "farming" for gear, 40-60 people hoping that a nice item would drop, with raids lasting literally for hours in to the wee hours of the morning.
And far as Vanguard and the Matrix not being developed by SOE, well perception is reality, and although they didn't develop the games they were "involved" with the games.
I'm only answering the OP's original question, which is why all the SOE hate, well it seems as though whatever SOE gets "involved" with they just don't seem to have all that good of a track record.
EQ1, I strongly disagree.
SWG - I agree somewhat, I also give at least 50% of this mess to LA.
Vanguard - Not developed by SoE
Matrix Online - Not Developed by SoE.
EQ2 - agree
So I think they have a decent record of hits vs misses based on games they developed.
How can you strongly disagree about EQ1?
If you ever leveled up in the game you would know that the basic grouping strategy of EQ1 was to get a group, move to a zone, find an exp spot, get a puller, pull mobs to that spot and kill them. and then pull and kill again. In fact in many zones you just couldn't't exp any other way or you would wipe.
Were there different elements of game play, yes, but that was the defacto lvling up strategy, unless you were a strong solo class like a necro or beastlord - but even then if you wanted to raid it was back to "farming" for gear, 40-60 people hoping that a nice item would drop, with raids lasting literally for hours in to the wee hours of the morning.
And far as Vanguard and the Matrix not being developed by SOE, well perception is reality, and although they didn't develop the games they were "involved" with the games.
I'm only answering the OP's original question, which is why all the SOE hate, well it seems as though whatever SOE gets "involved" with they just don't seem to have all that good of a track record.
You obviously are young and haven't played many games to really appreciate them. EQ1 was a HUGE turning point for all mmorpgs. Before EQ1 Ultima Online was probably the biggest MMO out. EQ revolutionized the way we play games. You claim all EQ1 was, get a group, find a spot, get a puller and you were done. Maybe that might be the case for people low level but as far as I recall it was the FIRST game the started raiding and actually interactive quests. Take ANY game out there now and you will find some part of it taken from EQ1. Even games such as WOW in which people think is the greatest game ever. More then half of its elements were taken from EQ1. Grouping, it was designed in EQ1, Raiding was designed in EQ1, Epic Quests was designed in EQ1, ZONES were designed in EQ1 to create larger areas to play in before we had new technology and hardware which could rune non zoned games, Spell casting bars, and much much more. The game had problems at release yes, BUT what game hasn't and what game had more right to have a screw up then the first true 3D MMORPG. Please don't post lame remarks about SOE, yes they have had their faults but they have done far better then most.
I strongly agree that EQ1 as an MMORPG started them all but the concept of grouping and quests did not start in EQ1, they were started in old Sinlgeplayer games such as the first Might and Magics that implemented the party system and Quests. EQ1 just brought it to a more multiplayer interactive aspect.
EQ1, I strongly disagree.
SWG - I agree somewhat, I also give at least 50% of this mess to LA.
Vanguard - Not developed by SoE
Matrix Online - Not Developed by SoE.
EQ2 - agree
So I think they have a decent record of hits vs misses based on games they developed.
How can you strongly disagree about EQ1?
If you ever leveled up in the game you would know that the basic grouping strategy of EQ1 was to get a group, move to a zone, find an exp spot, get a puller, pull mobs to that spot and kill them. and then pull and kill again. In fact in many zones you just couldn't't exp any other way or you would wipe.
Were there different elements of game play, yes, but that was the defacto lvling up strategy, unless you were a strong solo class like a necro or beastlord - but even then if you wanted to raid it was back to "farming" for gear, 40-60 people hoping that a nice item would drop, with raids lasting literally for hours in to the wee hours of the morning.
And far as Vanguard and the Matrix not being developed by SOE, well perception is reality, and although they didn't develop the games they were "involved" with the games.
I'm only answering the OP's original question, which is why all the SOE hate, well it seems as though whatever SOE gets "involved" with they just don't seem to have all that good of a track record.
You obviously are young and haven't played many games to really appreciate them. EQ1 was a HUGE turning point for all mmorpgs. Before EQ1 Ultima Online was probably the biggest MMO out. EQ revolutionized the way we play games. You claim all EQ1 was, get a group, find a spot, get a puller and you were done. Maybe that might be the case for people low level but as far as I recall it was the FIRST game the started raiding and actually interactive quests. Take ANY game out there now and you will find some part of it taken from EQ1. Even games such as WOW in which people think is the greatest game ever. More then half of its elements were taken from EQ1. Grouping, it was designed in EQ1, Raiding was designed in EQ1, Epic Quests was designed in EQ1, ZONES were designed in EQ1 to create larger areas to play in before we had new technology and hardware which could rune non zoned games, Spell casting bars, and much much more. The game had problems at release yes, BUT what game hasn't and what game had more right to have a screw up then the first true 3D MMORPG. Please don't post lame remarks about SOE, yes they have had their faults but they have done far better then most.
Actually I played EQ1 for 4 years and was in a very large raiding guild.
I remember killing Frost Giants for 5-6 hours, night after night, waiting for some stupid rare to drop. There would be 40 of us standing in a spot waiting for the monk to bring us a mob to kill. If we wiped the rogue would go in and drag our bodies out.
Later when POK was introduced we would.... gee do the same thing.... only with different mobs and in a different zone.
Some zones and raids were set up differently, but the majority of the time whether exping in Highpass Hold, Lower Gulk, Dreadlands or Bastion of Thunder it is and was as I described it, unless you were a good solo class like a Necro or a Beastlord. But even those classes can not raid alone and would have to go to the default set up. Find a spot and pull to it, hour after hour until you geared up for the next tier of content.
So yah I do know what I am talking about.