Wow....They may use a lower end graphical engine than other games out there...but how they make it work so well is beyond me. Simply beautiful I've gotta say.
Hi! My name is paper. Nerf scissors, rock is fine. MMORPG = Mostly Men Online Roleplaying Girls http://www.MichaelLuckhardt.com
Would have been nicer if they used more newly designed textures. Most of the screens show textures already created and used in other parts off the world. With the exception of a few buildings. I just wonder how many new mobs they design, Blizz has a habit of rinse and repeating everything.
LOL.. how some of you can consider that art up to date is beyond me, but not all of you are artists so you probably don't nitpick the hell out of it as I do.
Hand painted textures are nice and all, but you don't get the realism that other works can do to give you much better immersion into the world of an MMO. Saddly some games that have great textures screw it up by overdoing their stupid bloom effects (EQ2 anyone?).
You can clearly see the polys of an object. Most objects in-game whenI played I could probably guess the poly count of every object about 95% accuracy. You shouldn't be able to do as such. The models should appear seamless, but they don't. There's to many jagged polys, which just destroys immersion for me. There is to high a poly count, but this also goes to say there can be to low poly count. They are pushing it with their counts. They could have atleast bumpmapped some crap so it doesn't look so dang awful, but that's their choice. Never fully explored the game, but it doesn't look like they even used normals. Just looks like poly to texture conversion. Lighting is also hardly even used if at all. Dynamic lighting sure as hell isn't present. If they did use all these features.. they clearly arn't visible. I doubt they did anyway and not sure why they didn't. I assume they did this for a purpose, but to me.. that's just dumb.. new technology is available for a reason.. use it people.. stop making games for people living in 1999.. it's 2007.. update your Fing computer already.
While I can't be to harsh, because they went with a different style. I just don't see it fitting for todays technology and standards. So far not many MMOs have met my artistic expectations, but hey that's my problem not yours right?
Anyway.. I don't play WOW anymore, but the new expansion MAY have me interested a little bit. Thoughts of returning, but sold my WOW account and will have to do it all over again lol. Wouldn't matter.. I wanted to be horde, but ended up with 2 60 alliances lol.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
LOL.. how some of you can consider that art up to date is beyond me, but not all of you are artists so you probably don't nitpick the hell out of it as I do. Hand painted textures are nice and all, but you don't get the realism that other works can do to give you much better immersion into the world of an MMO. Saddly some games that have great textures screw it up by overdoing their stupid bloom effects (EQ2 anyone?). You can clearly see the polys of an object. Most objects in-game whenI played I could probably guess the poly count of every object about 95% accuracy. You shouldn't be able to do as such. The models should appear seamless, but they don't. There's to many jagged polys, which just destroys immersion for me. There is to high a poly count, but this also goes to say there can be to low poly count. They are pushing it with their counts. They could have atleast bumpmapped some crap so it doesn't look so dang awful, but that's their choice. Never fully explored the game, but it doesn't look like they even used normals. . While I can't be to harsh, because they went with a different style. I just don't see it fitting for todays technology and standards. So far not many MMOs have met my artistic expectations, but hey that's my problem not yours right?
You talk about being an artist but you seem more concerned with technology and graphic specs. And that's exactly what's wrong with 90% of the computer artists today, they think that high poly counts = good art. It doesn't.
You say that the art in most MMORPGs is disappointing, could you give an example of a game where the art didn't disappoint you so there can be a point of reference? MMORPGs are always going to be behind the curve compared to console and single player games, it's their nature.
Art is always a subjective thing. For example I know some people who think that EQ2's dead, lifeless and plastic looking models are great just because they look 'realistic'. But a cold, non-subjective fact is that MMORPGs do not have the technology to make realistic graphics at this point. The best they can manage is realistic-looking plastic. WoW at least understood the limitation of the medium and worked within in.
Maybe someday we'll see MMORPGs that look like Half Life 2 or Bioshock but it's not going to happen anytime soon.
As always, Blizzard artists showing that it's not the number of pixels, it's how you use them These guys can blow away most other artists desiging for more graphic intensive games. But who cares, I want more Starcraft 2 info!!
You sound like one of my friends. He can't get enough information on SC2.
High poly count doesn't mean a good artist. I never said that. You assumed it.
A good artist can intergrate his skill into new technology. Enterwining them together to make a perfect image. That's a good artist. You can't take a poly and slap a texture on it then call it art. That's pathetic childs play. A good artist can combine proper mapping, materials, texture work, lighting, rendering, and engine power to create great works of art.
WoW is just this, polys with textures slapped on. They could have atleast normalized the enitre frikin thing or hell bumpmapped it so crap didn't look so polyised.
MMOs can easily make photorealistic graphics. It just is time consuming.. thus expensive.. 2 things MMO companies don't like. Game features that promote longitivity is what they are focused on, because that's what makes them money. Get you hooked on bored tediums and milk you for every penny.
Regular games don't have to do this, beceause they make profit in 1 punch. Their goals are different thus they aim for the high end of the spectrum.
EQ2 graphics are good, but if you read what I said you'd see that I explained how some companies over do bloom effects and lighting. That's exactly what they did. They over did post processing effects. It happens saddly.
To be honest i'm not quite sure what MMO has good graphics anymore. Seams technology for them is going in reverse.. pathetic companies.. very sad.. focusing on tediums instead of visual appeal and functional enjoyable game play.. like I said.. they'd rather keep you for as long as possible and milk it for as much as possible. It's sad.. really.. it is.
I've seen some vids of AoC.. looks good, but I won't know untill i've stressed it to my liking on my system. Vanguard had potential with the Unreal engine, but they didn't quite get it right. They had highquality of somethings then poor of others.. immersion killed. If these companies can't balance it properly then stop churning these damn games out their arses.. it's getting old seeing every stinking company known to man trying to make a dang MMO.. so many disappointments.. Maybe the future will weave a new web and we'll see something worth the time of day, but maybe not.. we'll see.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
LOL.. how some of you can consider that art up to date is beyond me, but not all of you are artists so you probably don't nitpick the hell out of it as I do. Hand painted textures are nice and all, but you don't get the realism that other works can do to give you much better immersion into the world of an MMO. Saddly some games that have great textures screw it up by overdoing their stupid bloom effects (EQ2 anyone?). You can clearly see the polys of an object. Most objects in-game whenI played I could probably guess the poly count of every object about 95% accuracy. You shouldn't be able to do as such. The models should appear seamless, but they don't. There's to many jagged polys, which just destroys immersion for me. There is to high a poly count, but this also goes to say there can be to low poly count. They are pushing it with their counts. They could have atleast bumpmapped some crap so it doesn't look so dang awful, but that's their choice. Never fully explored the game, but it doesn't look like they even used normals. . While I can't be to harsh, because they went with a different style. I just don't see it fitting for todays technology and standards. So far not many MMOs have met my artistic expectations, but hey that's my problem not yours right?
You talk about being an artist but you seem more concerned with technology and graphic specs. And that's exactly what's wrong with 90% of the computer artists today, they think that high poly counts = good art. It doesn't.
You say that the art in most MMORPGs is disappointing, could you give an example of a game where the art didn't disappoint you so there can be a point of reference? MMORPGs are always going to be behind the curve compared to console and single player games, it's their nature.
Art is always a subjective thing. For example I know some people who think that EQ2's dead, lifeless and plastic looking models are great just because they look 'realistic'. But a cold, non-subjective fact is that MMORPGs do not have the technology to make realistic graphics at this point. The best they can manage is realistic-looking plastic. WoW at least understood the limitation of the medium and worked within in.
Maybe someday we'll see MMORPGs that look like Half Life 2 or Bioshock but it's not going to happen anytime soon.
Agreed. Photorealism does not equate to "good." If photorealism is the ultimate goal, then the concept of "art" seems useless - it becomes only about technology and "capturing." The artists of WoW definitely created a consistent visual langauge that becomes "believable" because the characters fit so well in the environments. And, seems an awful lot of people dig comic book art - so why is that art style suddenly lacking when it's in an MMO? I won't name specific games, but clearly there's some "realistic" modeling in some newer MMOs that falls far short due to the lack of vision of the artists.
Just to say, I think you misunderstood what Krileon was saying entirely about the polygon count, it wasn't the amount of polygons, it was the fact that you can actually SEE them without much effort on the actual surface of the objects, in any good art you have to make sure your polygons can't be seen otherwise the objects will look blocky and shapeless, don't be so quick to go throwing the flames at someone who's just telling it how it is. As for the 3D engine comment, sounds like a load of bollocks to me, MMORPG's like Huxley, Tabula Rasa and heck even Gods and Heroes all look reasonably okay to me, it doesn't matter what kind of engine your given it's the actual artists ability, a game engine only renders everything the artists have put together into one package such as sounds, animation and models.
Just noticed now that he posted pretty much what I'm arguing for, but anyway, the point still stands, WoW has blocky and uninspired art, if you have a problem with that, then don't pay attention to us, but for crying out loud don't act like you know everything.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
You don't need photorealism. I agree with that part. I do agree that the immersion you can get from WoW is fantastic *IF* you don't mind the style.
I've got nothing against the textures. For that aspect they are absolutely fantastic.
My problem is the models themselves. They're poor quality and the artists should be embarassed their hardwork is plastered on those piles of crap. They could have bumpped the models so they looked smoother while MAYBE doubling the render needs of players, but doubtful. You'd still be able to run on max settings with medium end machines easily. A rectangle arm is just sad. When you can tell a fist is a square it's pathetic. Shafts of weapons as rectangles.. etc.
So my focus isn't on the visual aspect of texture quality. It's model quality. Just wanted to clear that up before you guys start argueing with me some more.
If you don't agree the model quality is poor then don't call your self a 3D artist.. ever.. untill you come to a realisation the quality is not there. Nor is the technology. A company like that should -EASILY- be able to to intergrate the technology, but chose not to. On purpose maybe? I don't know. What I do know is it Fing sucks.
*NOTE* Just for you slow people. I am talking about the MODELS. Not the textures (the pretty skins you see on crap). I am refering to grayscale models. Let this be understood before you deside to argue with me.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
IT's amazing cause it looks tons better than any bland game like EQ2 or Vanguard and thats because it actually has lovely art. The ice is going to be the best looking thing, although theres no pictures up atm it looks sooo good.
-----------------------------
SWG - PrePub9 Jedi mastered all professions - June 26th 2003 > Nov 15th 2005 EVE Online - 24 million SP - May 6th 2003 > Early 2005 PlanetSide - BR20 CR5 - May 23rd 2003 > Sept 2003
You don't need photorealism. I agree with that part. I do agree that the immersion you can get from WoW is fantastic *IF* you don't mind the style. I've got nothing against the textures. For that aspect they are absolutely fantastic. My problem is the models themselves. They're poor quality and the artists should be embarassed their hardwork is plastered on those piles of crap. They could have bumpped the models so they looked smoother while MAYBE doubling the render needs of players, but doubtful. You'd still be able to run on max settings with medium end machines easily. A rectangle arm is just sad. When you can tell a fist is a square it's pathetic. Shafts of weapons as rectangles.. etc. So my focus isn't on the visual aspect of texture quality. It's model quality. Just wanted to clear that up before you guys start argueing with me some more. If you don't agree the model quality is poor then don't call your self a 3D artist.. ever.. untill you come to a realisation the quality is not there. Nor is the technology. A company like that should -EASILY- be able to to intergrate the technology, but chose not to. On purpose maybe? I don't know. What I do know is it Fing sucks. *NOTE* Just for you slow people. I am talking about the MODELS. Not the textures (the pretty skins you see on crap). I am refering to grayscale models. Let this be understood before you deside to argue with me.
Wow I can smell the wannabe columbian art snob in you from a mile away. Well I guess you can't just embrace what's eye catching and simple can you?
Comments
Wow....They may use a lower end graphical engine than other games out there...but how they make it work so well is beyond me. Simply beautiful I've gotta say.
Hi! My name is paper. Nerf scissors, rock is fine.
MMORPG = Mostly Men Online Roleplaying Girls
http://www.MichaelLuckhardt.com
As always, Blizzard artists showing that it's not the number of pixels, it's how you use them
These guys can blow away most other artists desiging for more graphic intensive games.
But who cares, I want more Starcraft 2 info!!
Would have been nicer if they used more newly designed textures. Most of the screens show textures already created and used in other parts off the world. With the exception of a few buildings. I just wonder how many new mobs they design, Blizz has a habit of rinse and repeating everything.
---
LOL.. how some of you can consider that art up to date is beyond me, but not all of you are artists so you probably don't nitpick the hell out of it as I do.
Hand painted textures are nice and all, but you don't get the realism that other works can do to give you much better immersion into the world of an MMO. Saddly some games that have great textures screw it up by overdoing their stupid bloom effects (EQ2 anyone?).
You can clearly see the polys of an object. Most objects in-game whenI played I could probably guess the poly count of every object about 95% accuracy. You shouldn't be able to do as such. The models should appear seamless, but they don't. There's to many jagged polys, which just destroys immersion for me. There is to high a poly count, but this also goes to say there can be to low poly count. They are pushing it with their counts. They could have atleast bumpmapped some crap so it doesn't look so dang awful, but that's their choice. Never fully explored the game, but it doesn't look like they even used normals. Just looks like poly to texture conversion. Lighting is also hardly even used if at all. Dynamic lighting sure as hell isn't present. If they did use all these features.. they clearly arn't visible. I doubt they did anyway and not sure why they didn't. I assume they did this for a purpose, but to me.. that's just dumb.. new technology is available for a reason.. use it people.. stop making games for people living in 1999.. it's 2007.. update your Fing computer already.
While I can't be to harsh, because they went with a different style. I just don't see it fitting for todays technology and standards. So far not many MMOs have met my artistic expectations, but hey that's my problem not yours right?
Anyway.. I don't play WOW anymore, but the new expansion MAY have me interested a little bit. Thoughts of returning, but sold my WOW account and will have to do it all over again lol. Wouldn't matter.. I wanted to be horde, but ended up with 2 60 alliances lol.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
You talk about being an artist but you seem more concerned with technology and graphic specs. And that's exactly what's wrong with 90% of the computer artists today, they think that high poly counts = good art. It doesn't.
You say that the art in most MMORPGs is disappointing, could you give an example of a game where the art didn't disappoint you so there can be a point of reference? MMORPGs are always going to be behind the curve compared to console and single player games, it's their nature.
Art is always a subjective thing. For example I know some people who think that EQ2's dead, lifeless and plastic looking models are great just because they look 'realistic'. But a cold, non-subjective fact is that MMORPGs do not have the technology to make realistic graphics at this point. The best they can manage is realistic-looking plastic. WoW at least understood the limitation of the medium and worked within in.
Maybe someday we'll see MMORPGs that look like Half Life 2 or Bioshock but it's not going to happen anytime soon.
You sound like one of my friends. He can't get enough information on SC2.
High poly count doesn't mean a good artist. I never said that. You assumed it.
A good artist can intergrate his skill into new technology. Enterwining them together to make a perfect image. That's a good artist. You can't take a poly and slap a texture on it then call it art. That's pathetic childs play. A good artist can combine proper mapping, materials, texture work, lighting, rendering, and engine power to create great works of art.
WoW is just this, polys with textures slapped on. They could have atleast normalized the enitre frikin thing or hell bumpmapped it so crap didn't look so polyised.
MMOs can easily make photorealistic graphics. It just is time consuming.. thus expensive.. 2 things MMO companies don't like. Game features that promote longitivity is what they are focused on, because that's what makes them money. Get you hooked on bored tediums and milk you for every penny.
Regular games don't have to do this, beceause they make profit in 1 punch. Their goals are different thus they aim for the high end of the spectrum.
EQ2 graphics are good, but if you read what I said you'd see that I explained how some companies over do bloom effects and lighting. That's exactly what they did. They over did post processing effects. It happens saddly.
To be honest i'm not quite sure what MMO has good graphics anymore. Seams technology for them is going in reverse.. pathetic companies.. very sad.. focusing on tediums instead of visual appeal and functional enjoyable game play.. like I said.. they'd rather keep you for as long as possible and milk it for as much as possible. It's sad.. really.. it is.
I've seen some vids of AoC.. looks good, but I won't know untill i've stressed it to my liking on my system. Vanguard had potential with the Unreal engine, but they didn't quite get it right. They had highquality of somethings then poor of others.. immersion killed. If these companies can't balance it properly then stop churning these damn games out their arses.. it's getting old seeing every stinking company known to man trying to make a dang MMO.. so many disappointments.. Maybe the future will weave a new web and we'll see something worth the time of day, but maybe not.. we'll see.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
WoW looks grate on screens but whenever I log in and see those graphics from closer view I'm really dissapointed =/
You talk about being an artist but you seem more concerned with technology and graphic specs. And that's exactly what's wrong with 90% of the computer artists today, they think that high poly counts = good art. It doesn't.
You say that the art in most MMORPGs is disappointing, could you give an example of a game where the art didn't disappoint you so there can be a point of reference? MMORPGs are always going to be behind the curve compared to console and single player games, it's their nature.
Art is always a subjective thing. For example I know some people who think that EQ2's dead, lifeless and plastic looking models are great just because they look 'realistic'. But a cold, non-subjective fact is that MMORPGs do not have the technology to make realistic graphics at this point. The best they can manage is realistic-looking plastic. WoW at least understood the limitation of the medium and worked within in.
Maybe someday we'll see MMORPGs that look like Half Life 2 or Bioshock but it's not going to happen anytime soon.
Agreed. Photorealism does not equate to "good." If photorealism is the ultimate goal, then the concept of "art" seems useless - it becomes only about technology and "capturing." The artists of WoW definitely created a consistent visual langauge that becomes "believable" because the characters fit so well in the environments. And, seems an awful lot of people dig comic book art - so why is that art style suddenly lacking when it's in an MMO? I won't name specific games, but clearly there's some "realistic" modeling in some newer MMOs that falls far short due to the lack of vision of the artists.
Just to say, I think you misunderstood what Krileon was saying entirely about the polygon count, it wasn't the amount of polygons, it was the fact that you can actually SEE them without much effort on the actual surface of the objects, in any good art you have to make sure your polygons can't be seen otherwise the objects will look blocky and shapeless, don't be so quick to go throwing the flames at someone who's just telling it how it is. As for the 3D engine comment, sounds like a load of bollocks to me, MMORPG's like Huxley, Tabula Rasa and heck even Gods and Heroes all look reasonably okay to me, it doesn't matter what kind of engine your given it's the actual artists ability, a game engine only renders everything the artists have put together into one package such as sounds, animation and models.
Just noticed now that he posted pretty much what I'm arguing for, but anyway, the point still stands, WoW has blocky and uninspired art, if you have a problem with that, then don't pay attention to us, but for crying out loud don't act like you know everything.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
You don't need photorealism. I agree with that part. I do agree that the immersion you can get from WoW is fantastic *IF* you don't mind the style.
I've got nothing against the textures. For that aspect they are absolutely fantastic.
My problem is the models themselves. They're poor quality and the artists should be embarassed their hardwork is plastered on those piles of crap. They could have bumpped the models so they looked smoother while MAYBE doubling the render needs of players, but doubtful. You'd still be able to run on max settings with medium end machines easily. A rectangle arm is just sad. When you can tell a fist is a square it's pathetic. Shafts of weapons as rectangles.. etc.
So my focus isn't on the visual aspect of texture quality. It's model quality. Just wanted to clear that up before you guys start argueing with me some more.
If you don't agree the model quality is poor then don't call your self a 3D artist.. ever.. untill you come to a realisation the quality is not there. Nor is the technology. A company like that should -EASILY- be able to to intergrate the technology, but chose not to. On purpose maybe? I don't know. What I do know is it Fing sucks.
*NOTE* Just for you slow people. I am talking about the MODELS. Not the textures (the pretty skins you see on crap). I am refering to grayscale models. Let this be understood before you deside to argue with me.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
game comes out 11-03-08
IT's amazing cause it looks tons better than any bland game like EQ2 or Vanguard and thats because it actually has lovely art. The ice is going to be the best looking thing, although theres no pictures up atm it looks sooo good.
-----------------------------
SWG - PrePub9 Jedi mastered all professions - June 26th 2003 > Nov 15th 2005
EVE Online - 24 million SP - May 6th 2003 > Early 2005
PlanetSide - BR20 CR5 - May 23rd 2003 > Sept 2003
Wow I can smell the wannabe columbian art snob in you from a mile away. Well I guess you can't just embrace what's eye catching and simple can you?