in no way am i saying permadeath sucks. i just dont think it will be a good idea. here is the way i think of it. what is the point of having a persistant world with everyone dying and starting over? you level up with a buddy and he dies. now you guys cant play together anymore cause he has to start over. your pvpin and someone calls you. you answer it and when you come back your guy dies. now you have tostart all over because you just answered your phone. see my point? in order to have a permadeath you would have to have no life and play a computer game too serious. if you seriously want this why not just delete your character every time you die?
The only way I see this working for the masses is if gear has no meaning at all (strictly looks or status), and there is no levels. Instead of upgrading gear players can get buffs for living through a fight. Also, I doubt there should be a monthly fee for a game like this, since it functions like a FPS.
The problem with including it in mmos is that its not even very common in single player games, so why would it be successful? I think the best way to incorporate it would be as an individual server set and make it not one strike and you're out, but have a % chance that upon death that the player can no longer revive. Or something like this.
in no way am i saying permadeath sucks yes you are lol . i just dont think it will be a good idea. here is the way i think of it. what is the point of having a persistant world with everyone dying and starting over? you level up with a buddy and he dies. now you guys cant play together anymore cause he has to start over no reason he cant look you up after charecter creation . your pvpin and someone calls you. you answer it and when you come back your guy dies. now you have tostart all over because you just answered your phone Well then you deserved to die then lol . see my point? no in order to have a permadeath you would have to have no life and play a computer game too serious. if you seriously want this why not just delete your character every time you die?
You seem to operate under the assumption that in a permadeath game you will ahve levels and suchwhat like in WoW or everquest. Somehow if a permadeath game was made then i think they would do things differently.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Perma death is interesting, in that, it brings a game closer to real life. It allows, or would allow if it were done, game developers to engineer a game that mimics real life situations. Do you charge into that group of players and attempt to kill them, or run for your only life? Do you really trust the people you are with? Would you pay good money to have a couple of body guards protecting you? Your guild is about to make war against another guild. Do you trust your guild leaders plan? Do you betray your guild and help the other guys? Do you hide because you fear death? I like that...
And yes, I know that many people wouldn't want a game with the anxiety of real life. But some would play it.
Balance would be extremely important (*poof* my rogue appears behind you and instantly kills you! Start over!). A grind would be impossible (how many people die due to lag, mob respawn, or a bad pull?). I see perma-death as a skill based system, players make twenty characters that they can float around to (not putting all your eggs in one basket kinda thing), and it may suck to lose a character, but that character had a history that may or may not live on through stories, and through the stories of the guy/gal who beat you.
Perma-death is something that you use as a foundation for a game, not something you add in as an afterthought.
Well, that's my opinion. I just think it would be cool to have that Wild Bill moment when everyone wants a crack at your success and you always have to watch your back... and that one time you don't...
I'm fine either way. I do want a permadeath-lite / harsh death penalty. this will discourage immortal zerging whereas people die, respawn, and come right back like their GODS! trust me I used to be like the OP. I didnt want punishment. I'm a nextgen MMO'er but after I saw how weak and pointless open pvp is in absence of death penalty I changed. and boy did I change hehe
Here's some good benefits if we went all the way (if someone could develop a nice PD game)
1) Bounty system has a point. IF I set a bounty on someone to die, if PD is in effect then they go away forever. my problems are solved lol
2) Will mean something to reach max cap cause u might be one of a kind.
3) When u die it means something. can put a grave forever where u died. you're a real hero for having the balls to risk death. You made an impact. you're a legend now- like in that movie Troy Achilles wanted to be an immortal
4) Stops economic grip of power. Imagine if a guild is running the server. You kill them one by one now they ceased to exist. PD can help curve economic grip
5) Farmers cant make a good living. problem is now the questers and 'legit' loot whores are now getting killed too. Farmer = PVE'er (I'm a PVE/PVP person so im a greedy sob as well so not pointing fingers I like to amass wealth)
We all know the bads so I wont list those. I'd play a PD game or a game with death penalty. a penalty that hirts ya no matter what level / skill cap etc u are. something hardcore like old EQ penalties is a move in right direction or EVE or Asheron Call 1 Darktide or old school tough UO rules where u cant rez easily
ima write a blog proposing hardcore death penalties I suppose (pro death penalty like EQ 1,EVE,UO,Asheron Call 1 Darktide, Wurm Online, Starport, and yes even Mainstream GUILD WARS baby has a good penalty). for research guys checkout PAragus Blog here on MMORPG he wrote a good point of view. ill try to post mine maybe after i get a chance to really test out AC1 darktide one day
also please checkout Richard Bartle's "MMOs Are For Newbies". It explains why the good stuff like PD- well industtry has found out its all about the newbies for MMOs (well his point of view). from what ive seen i think hes right
Death in some fantasy settings ought to be permanent, but very hard to achieve. For example, consider the fact you get your character's head smashed in a low magic setting, it's pretty logical that your healer won't be able to save you. But at the same time such situations ought to be very rare in occurring in the first place. This means that combat systems would have to change, which is hard to do, but not impossible. If a developer QQs over such a challenge, then they're not real programmers since they don't have a pair to even do it on their free time as part of a project. Then again, there's nothing wrong with folks wanting to eat too.
btw my exposure to Permadeath was in Starport (indie MMO). it was open PVP but no pvper could make you PD (you did sweat in battles tho due to tough death penalties tho). the entire universe on a 'rebang' server is on a timer. Its so cool (too me). Basically everyone is all nice and stuff in the beginning. I'm not lying I did not die. but as we got closer to 'rebang' man everyone turned into sharks yo and turned on each other. Was all out murder.
what I like about PD is that you all start out together. you have friends. all equal. sure, some will grind more and amass more wealth and gain an advantage but the game was fairly linear and amassing wealth really just made u go #1
after the 'reset' I think all you have left is memories and rank. the problem is u dont have an 'attachment' like u would in city of heroes and other PVE based games. starport is f2p so it works for them. but for subscription based games ya I dunno.
the devs did say they make more money off of the perma servers. but 'rebangs' are good to learn the ropes.
why not just make a game called iraq war or war on terror then? we are getting to life like in games if we do this. i not sure about you all but i play these games to do stuff i cant do in real life. i dont have to worry about real life scenarios where if i die im gone forevor or if i kill this guy the law will come after me. if you want to take games this serious then go right ahead as for me i play to enjoy them.
Comments
in no way am i saying permadeath sucks. i just dont think it will be a good idea. here is the way i think of it. what is the point of having a persistant world with everyone dying and starting over? you level up with a buddy and he dies. now you guys cant play together anymore cause he has to start over. your pvpin and someone calls you. you answer it and when you come back your guy dies. now you have tostart all over because you just answered your phone. see my point? in order to have a permadeath you would have to have no life and play a computer game too serious. if you seriously want this why not just delete your character every time you die?
There hasn't been any good ideas how to make perma death work.
To be honest I don't think its possible to make a good perma death system
The only way I see this working for the masses is if gear has no meaning at all (strictly looks or status), and there is no levels. Instead of upgrading gear players can get buffs for living through a fight. Also, I doubt there should be a monthly fee for a game like this, since it functions like a FPS.
simple compromise, make it if you die 3 times within a 12 or 24 hour period your character is locked out of the game for a few days/weeks.
The problem with including it in mmos is that its not even very common in single player games, so why would it be successful? I think the best way to incorporate it would be as an individual server set and make it not one strike and you're out, but have a % chance that upon death that the player can no longer revive. Or something like this.
You seem to operate under the assumption that in a permadeath game you will ahve levels and suchwhat like in WoW or everquest. Somehow if a permadeath game was made then i think they would do things differently.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
Perma death is interesting, in that, it brings a game closer to real life. It allows, or would allow if it were done, game developers to engineer a game that mimics real life situations. Do you charge into that group of players and attempt to kill them, or run for your only life? Do you really trust the people you are with? Would you pay good money to have a couple of body guards protecting you? Your guild is about to make war against another guild. Do you trust your guild leaders plan? Do you betray your guild and help the other guys? Do you hide because you fear death? I like that...
And yes, I know that many people wouldn't want a game with the anxiety of real life. But some would play it.
Balance would be extremely important (*poof* my rogue appears behind you and instantly kills you! Start over!). A grind would be impossible (how many people die due to lag, mob respawn, or a bad pull?). I see perma-death as a skill based system, players make twenty characters that they can float around to (not putting all your eggs in one basket kinda thing), and it may suck to lose a character, but that character had a history that may or may not live on through stories, and through the stories of the guy/gal who beat you.
Perma-death is something that you use as a foundation for a game, not something you add in as an afterthought.
Well, that's my opinion. I just think it would be cool to have that Wild Bill moment when everyone wants a crack at your success and you always have to watch your back... and that one time you don't...
- Mal
I'm fine either way. I do want a permadeath-lite / harsh death penalty. this will discourage immortal zerging whereas people die, respawn, and come right back like their GODS! trust me I used to be like the OP. I didnt want punishment. I'm a nextgen MMO'er but after I saw how weak and pointless open pvp is in absence of death penalty I changed. and boy did I change hehe
Here's some good benefits if we went all the way (if someone could develop a nice PD game)
1) Bounty system has a point. IF I set a bounty on someone to die, if PD is in effect then they go away forever. my problems are solved lol
2) Will mean something to reach max cap cause u might be one of a kind.
3) When u die it means something. can put a grave forever where u died. you're a real hero for having the balls to risk death. You made an impact. you're a legend now- like in that movie Troy Achilles wanted to be an immortal
4) Stops economic grip of power. Imagine if a guild is running the server. You kill them one by one now they ceased to exist. PD can help curve economic grip
5) Farmers cant make a good living. problem is now the questers and 'legit' loot whores are now getting killed too. Farmer = PVE'er (I'm a PVE/PVP person so im a greedy sob as well so not pointing fingers I like to amass wealth)
We all know the bads so I wont list those. I'd play a PD game or a game with death penalty. a penalty that hirts ya no matter what level / skill cap etc u are. something hardcore like old EQ penalties is a move in right direction or EVE or Asheron Call 1 Darktide or old school tough UO rules where u cant rez easily
ima write a blog proposing hardcore death penalties I suppose (pro death penalty like EQ 1,EVE,UO,Asheron Call 1 Darktide, Wurm Online, Starport, and yes even Mainstream GUILD WARS baby has a good penalty). for research guys checkout PAragus Blog here on MMORPG he wrote a good point of view. ill try to post mine maybe after i get a chance to really test out AC1 darktide one day
linky to paragus:
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/062007/57_Rant-Death-Penalties
also please checkout Richard Bartle's "MMOs Are For Newbies". It explains why the good stuff like PD- well industtry has found out its all about the newbies for MMOs (well his point of view). from what ive seen i think hes right
Death in some fantasy settings ought to be permanent, but very hard to achieve. For example, consider the fact you get your character's head smashed in a low magic setting, it's pretty logical that your healer won't be able to save you. But at the same time such situations ought to be very rare in occurring in the first place. This means that combat systems would have to change, which is hard to do, but not impossible. If a developer QQs over such a challenge, then they're not real programmers since they don't have a pair to even do it on their free time as part of a project. Then again, there's nothing wrong with folks wanting to eat too.
-- Brede
btw my exposure to Permadeath was in Starport (indie MMO). it was open PVP but no pvper could make you PD (you did sweat in battles tho due to tough death penalties tho). the entire universe on a 'rebang' server is on a timer. Its so cool (too me). Basically everyone is all nice and stuff in the beginning. I'm not lying I did not die. but as we got closer to 'rebang' man everyone turned into sharks yo and turned on each other. Was all out murder.
what I like about PD is that you all start out together. you have friends. all equal. sure, some will grind more and amass more wealth and gain an advantage but the game was fairly linear and amassing wealth really just made u go #1
after the 'reset' I think all you have left is memories and rank. the problem is u dont have an 'attachment' like u would in city of heroes and other PVE based games. starport is f2p so it works for them. but for subscription based games ya I dunno.
the devs did say they make more money off of the perma servers. but 'rebangs' are good to learn the ropes.
why not just make a game called iraq war or war on terror then? we are getting to life like in games if we do this. i not sure about you all but i play these games to do stuff i cant do in real life. i dont have to worry about real life scenarios where if i die im gone forevor or if i kill this guy the law will come after me. if you want to take games this serious then go right ahead as for me i play to enjoy them.
seriously. why in the world would you want this?
Go download and play this game. Beat it, and all will be answered.