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DDO and whats wrong with it?
Berndr
Member Posts: 185
I just was reading some posts in this forum on DDO Subject, and Can’t believe how many people have wrong impression or idea about this game...
Many guys complained that they cant solo, game is unbalanced etc and compare it with eq,, for god sakes its D&D .... a game that was played with friends under candlelight , a social game we role-played , yes I said social, like a poker not something like solitaire some unsocial weirdo plays on his own ...... this game was never meant to be anything like eq and thanks good for that ,,, if i want to solo, i ll just play oblivion. Whole idea of mmo is that people play it together.
In DDO you are not meant walk into Dungeon on your own ,and be able to do it all , disable traps , lift heavy doors, turn undead and throw fireballs ..You are not meant to be so powerful in every skill that for challenge will be lost , the whole idea is that you depend on your skills and skills of others ,and whole quest depends on how something was done, was door smashed by barbarian and made noise attracting attention of monsters on us ,or was it silently unlocked by rogue ..
SO WHATS WRONG WITH THIS GAME ?????
Well game is fine, I truly think its one of the best ones out there and original in many ways ,which other game has got real time fighting where you can jump away to avoid being hit, roll or duck etc , yet sadly again it fails on so many other levels ….and feels me with mixed feelings
Quests are great interesting with a great storyline, dungeon were beautifully crafted and atmospheric, but yes that is the problem because that was all that there was ..
It failed on character development and general role-playing outside the quests, on a level that there was very little reasons for your character to exist, but to do and keep repeating series of quests ,,, your character could not get a house, venture into the world , craft , and have a higher goal but those related to questing….. people could not identify with a character that was trapped in confined city , with no way out … adventuring and exploring was lost to them , not to speak of lack of content ,, that there were not enough quests to do
Discovering a dungeon should have been a treat, not a a street full of doors with dungeon one next to the other ,,, it felt as if someone was feeding you with your favourite meal every day constantly till you feel sick of it and you get feel that if you seen one dungeon you seen them all ….
I always looked forward in MMo discovering a dungeon with such excitement , but here that was all that there was , outside instant areas were done badly and fail to deliver the feel of an outside world ..
But I haven’t played DDO since module 2 and heard that there were many new feature coming.
As I am concerned this game still might become one great mmo ,for Devs seem to be improving it and bringing in all of those missing features ,, so I will definitely come back to check on it
Just think of EQ2 and how bad it was when it went live and look at it now after more then 2 years ,its polished GEM
Comments
I played DDO for quite some time, and the main thing that made me stopped was the "amusement park" feeling.
The whole city of stormreach feels like an amusement park, each door in the city is an "attraction", and you have a guy in front of it saying a speach over and over again : "Come here my little adventurers, explore the deepest reach of my dungeons haha", seriously it reminds me of the pirate lair or whatever in Disneyland...
Then once inside the dungeon it is worst, everything really feels "uncoherent", like it was all setup for your amusement, again, like an haunted house in an amusement park...to make thing even "funnier", they even have some live events like the one where an NPC was giving items in exchanges of "coin thingy" found in the chests. Seriously...how is that immersive, does that guy went to see the supposedly "bad guy" in every dungeon and asked them "Please may I put my coins inside your chest so that adventurers can find them and trade them back to me for some cake and surprises!"... What the fu..^^ Is that a "treasure" hunt setup by some 10 years old people?
The fact that you keep doing the same mission over and over gain, makes that "amusement park" feeling even worse, like when in disneyland you do the Railroad once, and then tell your friends "Hey guys, wanna do it again? it was fun!! and we can get more coin to trade them for cakes!!"
Really, I never ever pictured D&D like that to myself, where is the exploration, where is the feeling of finding a dungeon deep into the jungle or some catacombs... Here it is just "Oh noo, I lost my magical necklace, could you please cross the street and enter my house to find it please?" what surprises you have when you find that the house has a 4 floors caves with multiples trap and danger. Man, they sure like to have BIG caves in that amusement park, errr city I mean ^^
Of course they also butchered the D&D ruleset and added the horrible traits thingy, just so that they could break the game balance of a 20 years ruleset even more. I won't even talk about the itemisation and how the rewards are acquired, again that amusement park feeling...and the really really bad random generation of items.
Oh well, I sure hope one day a real D&D MMO will be done, as there is a LOT of potential, and by the way, fu...Eberron for true, Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance are like 100 times better and that's an understatment.
Laura
PS: On the bright side though, the combat mechanics and graphical engine are both really really nice.
I hear alot of people complain about having to re-play quests. Well if you don't want to, don't do it. The only reason why I would ever replay a quest would be to help a new friend. Otherwise I have never replayed a quest because I HAD TO. Besides, how many times have people re-rolled toons in other MMO's only to do the same damn quests over and over, just in a different skin, or class. The fact is the game was made to be played like DnD, not like your generic, run of the mill MMO. I think way to many people were expecting a game that played like EQ, with a large open world, tons of static quests, classes, blah blah.... but with a DnD IP scheme. When they didn't get what they expected, they considered the game crap. Despite what most people think, it breaks the mold, and allows me to play just as I would play PnP.
Login - Group with friends - Tackle a quest - RP - Logout.
Go to DM's House - Tackle the quests - RP - Go home.
I play DDO just the same as I did when I was doing PnP, and am having a great time. I'm not rushing the content, I RP 1/2 the time (like we did PnP), and we play on a regular weekly schedule. The quests are setup in a way where a group can get together quickly, get to the quest and do it, no waiting, no pointless running around. Why? Because most people I play with have limited amounts of time to spend playing video games. So we can spend more time playing, less time doing rediculous tasks to get to the meat of the quest. Does it break immersion, sure its not what you'd expect from typical MMO's.....but there are many a MMO out there that break immersion just as bad if not worse (like rats dropping armor or gold). Now as far as mechanics go, there is no way anyone can accuratly recreate the ruleset in an online game period. They did a great job though of trying to bring that same feel to an MMO, and its the closest I have played to any other online game out there.
As I said before so many times, DDO is not your typical MMO, and it will not play as one. If you want something unique, with a good representation of DnD rules, dynamic action based combat, quick play sessions, play DDO. If you want something better with the same criteria, then I'd suggest you make it yourself and see if you can do any better. I'd be interested in seeing what you'd come up with.
If you want a game that plays like WoW, play WoW. If you want a game that plays as close to DnD, play DDO.I hear alot of people complain about having to re-play quests. Well if you don't want to, don't do it. The only reason why I would ever replay a quest would be to help a new friend. Otherwise I have never replayed a quest because I HAD TO. Besides, how many times have people re-rolled toons in other MMO's only to do the same damn quests over and over, just in a different skin, or class. The fact is the game was made to be played like DnD, not like your generic, run of the mill MMO. I think way to many people were expecting a game that played like EQ, with a large open world, tons of static quests, classes, blah blah.... but with a DnD IP scheme. When they didn't get what they expected, they considered the game crap. Despite what most people think, it breaks the mold, and allows me to play just as I would play PnP.
Login - Group with friends - Tackle a quest - RP - Logout.
Go to DM's House - Tackle the quests - RP - Go home.
I play DDO just the same as I did when I was doing PnP, and am having a great time. I'm not rushing the content, I RP 1/2 the time (like we did PnP), and we play on a regular weekly schedule. The quests are setup in a way where a group can get together quickly, get to the quest and do it, no waiting, no pointless running around. Why? Because most people I play with have limited amounts of time to spend playing video games. So we can spend more time playing, less time doing rediculous tasks to get to the meat of the quest. Does it break immersion, sure its not what you'd expect from typical MMO's.....but there are many a MMO out there that break immersion just as bad if not worse (like rats dropping armor or gold). Now as far as mechanics go, there is no way anyone can accuratly recreate the ruleset in an online game period. They did a great job though of trying to bring that same feel to an MMO, and its the closest I have played to any other online game out there.
As I said before so many times, DDO is not your typical MMO, and it will not play as one. If you want something unique, with a good representation of DnD rules, dynamic action based combat, quick play sessions, play DDO. If you want something better with the same criteria, then I'd suggest you make it yourself and see if you can do any better. I'd be interested in seeing what you'd come up with.
Souvec all the thing you said , made my hair stood on an end ,,,for thats how i feel as well , and there is a lots of truth in what you are saying ...i mean ,,, i also hated the idea of doors with npc selling tickets for a ride just like in a kids world adventure ...
Laura , regarding to rats and other animal droping gold is usually explained , that those creatures feed on their pray ,and will also consume their personal possesion
Sorry, but I don't like WoW either
How can you say you are going to RP in such uncoherent universe like DDO? every doors in this city is a dungeon or a shop, how can you RP "Ohhh I found some "happy coins" in the archlich chest yay, I ll trade them for cakes" (I know I am insisting on that point, but that really killed me when I was playing DDO)
How dare you say DDO is a good adaptation of the ruleset? It is the worst I have EVER seen, from baldur's gate 1 to Neverwinter, or even Temple of elemental evil, every recent adaptation of the DnD ruleset have been better than DDO. They plain and simply butchered it.
I played and still play a lot of pen and paper DnD, and I never played a scenario where I was in a city and that the dungeon was in front of the tavern...what kind of GM would do that? There is always a part of exploration, a part of dialog and mystery, where you travel (a bit more than just going accross the street) with your friends.
As for not playing the same dungeons over and over again, I seriously wonder how you are doing that, maybe it is doable today with the module they released because at first there was simply not enough content to level from 1 to 10 without redoing quests, no to mention the fact that if you want some specifics fixed reward you have to redo the questline a certain numbers of times, or even to increase your favor you have to play in the harder difficulty if you want to have the highest favor. Are you doing all the quests on hard first try?
I DO like the fact that you can play for short sessions and have fun with friends and it is not a grind feast MMO like the others, and that's what kept me playing DDO from level 1 to 12 at that time, but in the end, it doesn't excuse the major level design flaws and that "amusement park" feeling, the butchering of the ruleset and some of the classes, as well as the really not sexy Eberron setting (but that must have been pushed by Wizard of the coast and I m sure it was a pain for the people working on the project too).
I hope I can do that one day believe me
as I am working as a lead game designer right now, unfortunately it is not for a Massively Multiplayer Game though.
Oh well anyway, I just wanted to give my opinion onto what make me stopped playing DDO and what I felt was "wrong with it", as it was the subject of the topic, I wonder what you are doing answering in a Topic like that besides trying to pick fight with people?
If you still like DDO, by all means, play it, really I quite perfectly understand that some people may like it, here I am only saying why I didn't like it and what I felt was wrong with it. Nothing more than a personnal opinion.
I think you are messing my quote with Souvec quote
As I am the one saying DDO feels like an amusement park, I really don't care if rats drop gold or even a 2 handed sword bigger than themselves 
I think you are messing my quote with Souvec quote
As I am the one saying DDO feels like an amusement park, I really don't care if rats drop gold or even a 2 handed sword bigger than themselves 
Oh Sorry honey you are right i did mees it up , the first part with an amusement park was ment for you ,, and yes i do agree with u i feel the same way
hey I am also an animator and game designer , but sadly i work in film industry
While I'm right up there with wishing I could have a real world to explore, no one has yet ever shown how it can be done in your typical DikuMUD-based MMORPG. No one. The classes aren't balanced, and the ruleset would have you resting more than anything else. The D&D rules would have to be completely thrown out the window to accomplish it, which would just further piss off all the PnP purists.
As for butchering the rules, Turbine can't do anything in DDO without it being approved by Wizards of the Coast first, so obviously they gave the green light to any "butchering" which in turn makes it at least officially alternative rules.
My opinion: DDO is the perfect game for the middlecore gamer -- the former hardcore who no longer has the time to do the long raids but has the skill and desire to. DDO lets him login, grab his group, and do some RPGA-esque dungeons and raids.
Gamers such as myself who love the exploration, etc. (which is why I'm enjoying LOTRO so much) either have to have an open mind that all MMOs are not required to be like every other MMO and adapt ourselves to the new environment, or leave and go back to any other of the gazillion DikuMUD MMOs.
I think the main thing that's "wrong" with DDO is that it's set in a rather boring city, and most of the game's action (at least when I played last), takes place in that city, in basically a very confined area. The city doesn't feel at all "real", very much unlike the cities of the P&P game, which, under any decent GM, feel very real, and very much like places that exist without the player.
Even in other fairly primitive MMOs, even EQ1, cities were made to feel a lot more "real" than Stormreach (love the name, hate the place). So I don't think that's really an excusable failure.
This very unreal, almost claustrophobic city combines with the, dull, violent, linear nature of the dungeons/quests to give this extreme "amusement park" feel, which is really a degredation of the P&P game, not some wonderful extension of it. The idea that the quests in DDO are "RPGA-esque" is an insult to the good ol' RPGA, frankly. Many key elements of D&D are just completely absent from DDO, and what we're left with is a slightly dull MMO that has rules vaguely resembling D&D, but doesn't actually play like it at all.
I mean, for me, here's what's wrong with DDO, in list form:
1) Lack of exploration/genuine outdoor areas - In D&D, this is a lot of the game, ESPECIALLY at low levels. One very often explores desolate towns (Terrible Trouble at Tragidor, anyone?), wilderness areas, haunted, half-ruined castles, and so on. In DDO, as far as I played, there was very little of this. Not none, but very little, and unexcitingly implemented.
2) Horrible choice of setting. - I'm certain this it's WotC's fault, not Turbine's but, still, come on, a "made-up" city in a "made-up" corner of a new and not-very-popular setting? If they'd used the Forgotten Realms, this game would be significantly more popular, even with the few who'd stay away specifically because it was the dull, overused, FR. Even Dragonlance or Oerth would have attracted more people.
3) Dungeons, dungeons, dungeons, dungeons. I'm sorry, I played AD&D/D&D for what, nearly twenty years. Most game sessions, we didn't even see a dungeon or something that could easily be classed as one. This was hardly unusual. Yet in DDO, from the beginning of the game, it's one dungeon after another.
4) Claustrophobic, lifeless city. Seriously. Stormreach is dead, dull, lacks any kind of consistent atmopshere. It's not a fun place to be.
People saying things like "Go play WoW LOLZ!" seriously need their heads adjusting. Someone complaining about a game being too "theme-park-like" is hardly going to want to play WoW, now, are they?! A lot of us would just have liked a D&D game that actually resembled D&D, rather than this hyper-structured dungeon-fest. Still, the biggest failing is probably just choosing so poorly on setting/city. I like Eberron a lot, but this take on it, missing most of Eberron's distinctiveness and coming across as "D&D meets Final Fantasy and has an ugly lovechild" was not the way to go.
D&D when it was released changed the way people looked at RPGs, and unfortunately many people expected DDO to do the same. I played the game for a time and I enjoyed it. I came in expecting the "Party" experience, and I got it. But it did in truth fail to live up to expectations. It's a good game, on the whole, but it suffers from many flaws, and I agree that it has a semi "amusement park feel." The concept of D&D... is incapturable. How can we turn a game that has so much uniqueness, and so much adaptability into a MMO. Today's technology just isn't cut out to do it. I think that the try was good, and they came up with a good game. Thank heavens they placed it in Ebberon. Can you imagine the damage that would have been done if they had placed it in The Forgotten Realms?
Maybe someday we will have an adaptability protocol that can contend with DDO, but until then... This is what we have. For those who like it enjoy. For those who don't, there's many other games out there, and there's always PnP.
Formerly known as Souvec....long story.
My intentions are not to cause any arguements, as I can see we all see things differently. Don't get me wrong, I have had my share of issues with DDO as well, but from every game I have played, I found it to suit my lifestyle best. But to all of you who have issues with DDO, let me ask you not what those issues are, but what would you have done differently? How would you have built the DnD MMO?
Setting?
Ruleset?
Character Imbalance?
Freedom?.... etc.
Now disregard any thought or previous MMO game you have ever played, and think solely on the fact that the game was made from PnP DnD. Think, what would you do different that would not conflict in the way we would traditionally play DnD.
D&D rules prohibit exploration in the way we are used to it in other games. It just won't work. In PnP the exploration was all in your imaginations while the "world" was controlled by the DM and tailored to your group. You didn't have to worry about respawning mobs and other nastiness since your health and mana won't regenerate at all and you have to go rest to reset them. There are plenty of other reasons the pure D&D ruleset cannot work in an open-world MMORPG. Unfortunate, but true.
And I don't feel it's the least bit insulting to say the DDO experience is RPGA-esque. Of course, I made that original statement, so I guess I should feel that way. RPGA you were time limited by other events. Sit down, make your introductions, and get to the action. And action was primarily what it was, since loads of true RP takes up more time. Wham, bam, thank ya, ma'am, next event. DDO is pretty similar -- login, get your guild or pickup group, do the adventure, next.
And yes, WotC forced Eberron on Turbine as part of the licensing agreement. Eberron or nothing. Bioware has the rights to Forgotten Realms games, and Dragonlance is no longer part of the D&D catalog.
This is why I still feel for what Turbine was given as the challenge, did as best as they could. It's not the true ruleset, as mentioned above, because it could never be to work fully in a MMO setting. DDO is very RPGA-esque, but it doesn't have to be. I tend to log in quite a bit just to RP with my Lightstorm friends, not even setting foot in a dunegeon. Then when we do quest, we actually make it a point to stop after each battle to RP a little along the way. You'd be surprised how much this makes a difference than just doing PUG after PUG.
But not everyone likes to RP like I do, or play like I play.
I've struggled with the fact that I played DDO too, because I am a veteran of the paper and pencil rpg, and found it lacking....I think you summarized very nicely what's wrong with the game. It really fails in the exploration and storytelling, and Eberron just doesn't quite cut it in terms of setting. Plus, the D20 rules for 3rd edition are buff enough without all the adds that make the game so ridiculously Monty Haulish.....anyway, kudos to your asessment!
Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)
Yes, I think there is that sense of being spoon-fed every step of the way in DDO, which just isn't what MMORPGers are used to in this day and age. I still think this wouldn't be a bad game to play with a built-in bunch of friends who you used to pen-and-paper with as an excuse to socialize online, shoot the shit, and hack-and-slash, but otherwise, there's other games that are just way more expansive and less restrictive than this one. I just never got that sense of exploration and discovery of new worlds that I've gotten with other MMORPGs I've played.
I hear alot of people complain about having to re-play quests. Well if you don't want to, don't do it. The only reason why I would ever replay a quest would be to help a new friend. Otherwise I have never replayed a quest because I HAD TO. Besides, how many times have people re-rolled toons in other MMO's only to do the same damn quests over and over, just in a different skin, or class. The fact is the game was made to be played like DnD, not like your generic, run of the mill MMO. I think way to many people were expecting a game that played like EQ, with a large open world, tons of static quests, classes, blah blah.... but with a DnD IP scheme. When they didn't get what they expected, they considered the game crap. Despite what most people think, it breaks the mold, and allows me to play just as I would play PnP.
Login - Group with friends - Tackle a quest - RP - Logout.
Go to DM's House - Tackle the quests - RP - Go home.
I play DDO just the same as I did when I was doing PnP, and am having a great time. I'm not rushing the content, I RP 1/2 the time (like we did PnP), and we play on a regular weekly schedule. The quests are setup in a way where a group can get together quickly, get to the quest and do it, no waiting, no pointless running around. Why? Because most people I play with have limited amounts of time to spend playing video games. So we can spend more time playing, less time doing rediculous tasks to get to the meat of the quest. Does it break immersion, sure its not what you'd expect from typical MMO's.....but there are many a MMO out there that break immersion just as bad if not worse (like rats dropping armor or gold). Now as far as mechanics go, there is no way anyone can accuratly recreate the ruleset in an online game period. They did a great job though of trying to bring that same feel to an MMO, and its the closest I have played to any other online game out there.
As I said before so many times, DDO is not your typical MMO, and it will not play as one. If you want something unique, with a good representation of DnD rules, dynamic action based combat, quick play sessions, play DDO. If you want something better with the same criteria, then I'd suggest you make it yourself and see if you can do any better. I'd be interested in seeing what you'd come up with.
/agree
I'ts a GREAT game, it really is. I think it's a lot of fun, and it irks me when people compare it to other MMOs out there because it shouldn't be.
DDO sux because it doesn't deserve a monthly pay. There, I answered your questions
DDO is very fun when you just start playing. Grouping for a dungeon is fun. Yet.....DDO is NOT a mmorpg. It bascially has the same style as diablo1/2 or guildwars. You gather your group in town and go to an instance that only fits 7 people to play. why would someone pay monthly fee to a game that isn't even a true mmorpg. I know some people will say DDO is a mmo... if that is still the case then you should answer this, when is the last time that you can play in a d ungeon that has more than 7 live players.. or 8... I forgot since i didn't play for a w hile
that is why i cancel my ddo account
I'm not going to argue if DDO is a mmorpg or not I don't really care. I'm assuming I pay for DDO because it updates new content monthly, tries to atleast. I don't know if GuildWars does monthly content updates or not. Either way I enjoy DDO I just wish Turbine would offer a all games pass like SOE.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
I actually liked ddo..for a couple weeks. I would play it if it was like GW, because in essence..the only difference between a game like gw and ddo is that gw has pvp and is free after you buy the box, while ddo has no pvp, and you pay $15 a month for it.
I would play it without the $15 a month fee. I just can't pay a monthly fee for a game with no crafting, no pvp, no doing anything other than jump into an instance...no open world anything....
It works for guild wars, but you don't pay every month for that.
D.
I dont want to make a huge list, cause its already been mentioned, but heres a few gripes I have with the game:
Lack of Spells and feats. D&D has so many spells, and this game has truncated them way too much. The ebberon setting is just bad. The environement is just way too instanced, and the lack of quests hits you VERY early on. The weapons are out fo whack. I am lvl 1, and I find a +1 longsword? What?! +1 is VERY valuable, and for me just killing a few kobolds on a starter quests, and my reward is 200gold and a +1 longsword, is just flabbergasting.
Hopefully another company will make a real D&D mmo with a true world feel to it.
I say just toss up adds on the load screens and make it f2p. Then it would be worth it.
They went overkill with the instances. The first time through, all the quests were fun..that lasted all of about 2 weeks for me..and I"m a casual player. I'm sure there is tons more content now..but all the quests look the same after awhile..and what is your goal? You never own a house, you can't pvp(well..not good pvp) you can't craft...all there is to do is quests...bleh.
D.
There's absolutely no way a casual player, or even a ridiculous hardcore gamer, could go through the content of this game in 2 weeks at this point. Could you hit the level cap? Maybe, but that's not playing the content that's powerlevelling and skipping 80% of what there is to do.
Guild housing and crafting are both coming within the next few months, btw, but again...DDO isn't every other MMO on the market. It's intended to offer something different than PVP, crafting grind, and decorate your house stuff that other MMOs offer...thank god!
ok just few things off the top of my head
1: Ebberon is a HUGE world..it may not be popular beacuse of some misunderstandings( mostly aboput the artwork if you read the forums..) But it is certanly intresting. Unfortunatly the game takes place on an island so perilous is not recomended for anyone under lvl 13..(Xendrick is home to dragons ogres and altering portals to other dimenssions. So the Place NOT the setting was a major goof.
2: Ebberon has some unique races such as the Khalastar, Shifters,And Changelings (names of races may be wrong been a minute since ive opeed my book) as well as the Warforged (the most gimped race in the whole danged book btw) And none of these were implemented nor was the fact that alignment pretty much doesnt matter in Ebberon ie, Good tribes of orcs and goblins..etc
3: No druid or Monk.....ok wtf two of the core classes are missing? And in my experience two of the MOST played classes at that..um earth to turbine..DUH!
4: if the seting is gonna be confined totally to a city can we at least have a massive city to explore? Honestly they should have based the game in Sharn...A city many miles wide and deep with massive floating towers where every race known to Man ( and some unknown to man) Gathers..the possibilitys would be almost endless not to mention the surounding country side is enourmous and could provide enough Exploration to make just about anyone happy.
Anyways just my two cents *puts on his fireproof undies* LET THE FLAMES BEGIN!!!! *ducks and covers*
Its hard to do anything at all witout a healer in this game is what I remeber after playing it.
"or was the fact that alignment pretty much doesnt matter in Ebberon ie, Good tribes of orcs and goblins..etc"
Um...Tangleroot Gorge?
"No druid or Monk.....ok wtf two of the core classes are missing? And in my experience two of the MOST played classes at that..um earth to turbine..DUH!"
Within the next 6 months for both it sounds like coming out of Gencon. I agree on monks, think they should have been there from the start, but understand the issue with druids because of shapeshifting (and I also don't really think they're all that popular anyways). This also applies to Shifters and Changelings as races btw.
Kalashtar serve absolutely no purpose in this setting, as they opted to go without psionics (good choice I think too, btw).