This is comming from a person with multiple Level 75 jobs in FFXI; who's even capped his Parrying Skill at an A rating.
I can enjoy the grinds, the parties, the hours of solo combat skilling, craft failures, and dynamis item debauchery in FFXI.
However, put me in Lineage 2 and I'll point/click my way to tears vs Keltic Hounds in 170seconds flat. They don't move, they don't call help, they don't run, you don't skill up anything, you just ding and run to the next stationary exp donor. Painful.
i cant remember what version of Ultime Online I played but i'd rate that #1. so hard when u die you gotta look for the angel and could get stripped butt naked by anyone even yer best friend
next up would be EQ2 at launch before it got noobified. was so crazy if your teammate died *you* got penalized for it. and it was a long run to yer corpse. and crafting pristine items was a b!tch. and boy----- if you died somewhere bad. oh boy- if you died in a tough place oh man that was rough yo.
I'm not entirely sure. Leaving it up to the opinion of the replier for now.
oh for hard + complex then ya EVE. I'm playing that right now and each day im like ---wow--- I learn something huge everyday. steep, steep learning curve
Personally I don't think there are very many newer MMOs that are "hard" or "complex" (whoever said LotR.....)
Hard as in difficult depends on the player I guess. Lineage 2 has the most difficult grind out there. FFXI also has a grind from hell so if you mean hard as in leveling it would be one of those. But is grind really a difficulty element? There is really nothing difficult about hitting the same sequence of buttons for hundreds of hours.
Complex...sorry to say, I agree with most of the posters, EVE has gotta be one of the more "complex" games out there but not really over the top difficult or "hard" but probably one of the most challenging MMOs out there right now because it requires you to actually think about what you are going to do.
Most new MMOs are designed so that a retarded houseplant could figure them out in about 15 minutes, especially since the "WoW era" were accessibility became more important then challenge. Its the MMO era of "tick tac toe" over "chess".
IMHO the older the MMO, the more difficult and complex they were. Character creation and management in AC or UO are completely superior to anything new out there for example.
call me crazy but i thought Old school DAOC (pre-toa) was pretty damn tough (and even after toa, before catacombs). The Level grind was pretty insane, you had to stick to yellows/blues, OJs were exrtremely hard (these mobs were a lil above ya). Once you got up to 40+, it was group or face a almost impossible grind. It was godly for one to get in those "Insta Fins" groups, which there were actually hand made lists of people waiting to get in for, and even then, your xp bar moved kinda slow.
Not to mention some of the 1v1/ non crowd control combat, with some of the classes that depended absolutely on openers / reactionary styles (off of parrys, evades, whatever).
but then again, the DAOC thats now currently available is quite ez to lvl in now.
Originally posted by Scriar If you want a hard and complex game you are in the wrong genre. mmos are anything but hard and complex developers seem to associate difficulty as time spent, not actual challenge of the game.
How would you make a game hard, without it being time spent?
Hardest: no idea, but EVE seems to be a favourite here. I'm guessing a game that is (almost) purely PvP will be the hardest, as it's all players you're up against.
It really depends how you categorize a game as hard, some could say hack and slash are the only difficult types of rpg; that and mmofps as they are the only game types that require something other than mathcraft.
Comments
This is comming from a person with multiple Level 75 jobs in FFXI; who's even capped his Parrying Skill at an A rating.
I can enjoy the grinds, the parties, the hours of solo combat skilling, craft failures, and dynamis item debauchery in FFXI.
However, put me in Lineage 2 and I'll point/click my way to tears vs Keltic Hounds in 170seconds flat. They don't move, they don't call help, they don't run, you don't skill up anything, you just ding and run to the next stationary exp donor. Painful.
Since when does horrible grind equal hard? Psh.
Eve Online without a doubt. It can be hell due to the actual loss and you really need to know your stuff to be good at pvp.
Eve isn't hard, its boring.
EQ was a very challenging, engrossing and detailed game.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
i cant remember what version of Ultime Online I played but i'd rate that #1. so hard when u die you gotta look for the angel and could get stripped butt naked by anyone even yer best friend
next up would be EQ2 at launch before it got noobified. was so crazy if your teammate died *you* got penalized for it. and it was a long run to yer corpse. and crafting pristine items was a b!tch. and boy----- if you died somewhere bad. oh boy- if you died in a tough place oh man that was rough yo.
oh for hard + complex then ya EVE. I'm playing that right now and each day im like ---wow--- I learn something huge everyday. steep, steep learning curve
Thats an interesting question.
Personally I don't think there are very many newer MMOs that are "hard" or "complex" (whoever said LotR.....
)
Hard as in difficult depends on the player I guess. Lineage 2 has the most difficult grind out there. FFXI also has a grind from hell so if you mean hard as in leveling it would be one of those. But is grind really a difficulty element? There is really nothing difficult about hitting the same sequence of buttons for hundreds of hours.
Complex...sorry to say, I agree with most of the posters, EVE has gotta be one of the more "complex" games out there but not really over the top difficult or "hard" but probably one of the most challenging MMOs out there right now because it requires you to actually think about what you are going to do.
Most new MMOs are designed so that a retarded houseplant could figure them out in about 15 minutes, especially since the "WoW era" were accessibility became more important then challenge. Its the MMO era of "tick tac toe" over "chess".
IMHO the older the MMO, the more difficult and complex they were. Character creation and management in AC or UO are completely superior to anything new out there for example.
call me crazy but i thought Old school DAOC (pre-toa) was pretty damn tough (and even after toa, before catacombs). The Level grind was pretty insane, you had to stick to yellows/blues, OJs were exrtremely hard (these mobs were a lil above ya). Once you got up to 40+, it was group or face a almost impossible grind. It was godly for one to get in those "Insta Fins" groups, which there were actually hand made lists of people waiting to get in for, and even then, your xp bar moved kinda slow.
Not to mention some of the 1v1/ non crowd control combat, with some of the classes that depended absolutely on openers / reactionary styles (off of parrys, evades, whatever).
but then again, the DAOC thats now currently available is quite ez to lvl in now.
FFXI, hands down.
shadowbane if you wanted to oppose the rulers of the server you were on.
If you want a hard and complex game you are in the wrong genre.
mmos are anything but hard and complex developers seem to associate difficulty as time spent, not actual challenge of the game.
How would you make a game hard, without it being time spent?
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
Most complex: Anarchy Online
Hardest: no idea, but EVE seems to be a favourite here. I'm guessing a game that is (almost) purely PvP will be the hardest, as it's all players you're up against.
It really depends how you categorize a game as hard, some could say hack and slash are the only difficult types of rpg; that and mmofps as they are the only game types that require something other than mathcraft.