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Nothing more than an experiment in the MMO market for LEC? or SOE wants to Nickel and dime us?
Tiller
Member LegendaryPosts: 11,489
......read this again.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001698964
I re-read this article and all seems more clear 2 years later. Note they have changed their trial model 3 or 4 times since then, toying with the way players can buy/play the game, which means digital only titles for the future? Remember the DD expansion ToW and the question on the LEC survey 2 years ago “is it important for you to own a box?” Do you enjoy going to the store to purchase your game titles?” ect.
Think about, it took one year to become a considerable failure. LEC not being the company to sit on the fence over it started re-strategizing their approach to the MMO market almost immediately. Maybe the reason it seemed SOE hasn’t really cared about how well SWG did was because it was now to serve as live test bed for future products. Maybe the license rumors you heard of where more to do with whether SOE would be the publisher or developer of the next title. Either way it’s obvious LEC has sought SOE’s advise on the MMO market, otherwise it wouldn’t have been mentioned in the article.
| Quote: |
"Not all games are set up around the buying and selling of items, which would make it very difficult to take a game like 'Star Wars Galaxies' and make that transition," she says. But, she adds, when "Star Wars Galaxies 2" is developed -- perhaps in 2008 or 2009 -- things will be different. "If we were starting to build 'Star Wars Galaxies' today, we would absolutely consider building it from the ground up with premium services." |
Note Nancy mentioned “SWG 2” 2008/2009. She didn’t say “If”, she said “when” Many of the things mentioned in the article are now happening. Like the switch to micro-transaction game titles which SOE is launching (because it wouldn’t work with the existing title of SWG) But experimenting with “story driven” quests ect does. We can almost see how everything they have done with SWG will most likely exist in the next. Levels, combat roles, no player cities, looted good sales, no player crafting economy (those models don’t work because SOE/LEC won’t be able to control it)
| Quote: |
"We're calling it the 'velvet rope' approach," says John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment (SOE). "The core game will be free, but there will be certain services that you can get for a small fee. Basically, we think we can monetize the game that way and reach a much broader audience." |
| Quote: |
"The goal here is to just give the game away, invite the gamers in, and get them playing," he explains. "And then, as they get further and further into the game, start saying things like, 'Hey, here's something you can buy if you'd like. Interested?" |
| Quote: |
For example, he says, a game that appeals to a younger demographic -- which typically doesn't have their own credit cards -- will benefit from the "free model"; their parents will be much more receptive to buying premium content that sells for just pennies. "A game that charges a $15 monthly subscription fee is going to scare that audience off," Smedley adds. |
Free Realms? The Agency, D.C. Comics Online? I assume the titles that they are publisher only for will continue use the pay per month model as well as some of the old titles, so really that have tapped all areas of the market that way.
Looks like I’m right to think the next SW MMO won’t be for me. I challenge you to reread this article and discover what other things have been happening in the MMO market since this article. This was good insight into the future and it’s to bad I didn’t pay much attention to what it all meant until now.
Things are picking up around there (SWG development team), but only in preparation for the announcement of the next SW title which I fear SOE will be more involved in then we will ever know.
The whole thing with “chapters” in Star Wars Galaxies may take on a different form in the next SW MMO.
Chapters being the chapters of a “story driven” quest which you can purchase to expand your content in the game.
You may pay for each new published chapter in the story of your choosing (kinda like the adventure packs in EQ2)
I’m wondering if they will offer things like one year worth of chapters for purchase in their Station Store, or x amount of chapters for x amount of dollars. I also see “Station Gear” cards with prepaid amounts to be used in the store, ingame ect, that will be available for purchase at retail store like Bestbuy.
You don’t have to pay for the game, you can come and go as you choose, but to advance you will be tempted to make purchases. Many things will be digital only, “linked” “no trade”. You won’t have to use money on any goods in the game except to travel ect so it could potentially eliminate gold farmers.
What’s this all mean? That SOE will nickel and dime you like they have in the past, but on a grander scale. Free in this case is completely misleading.
-Vanive
Comments
nancy is a c*&t seriously, wtf is up with the younger audience, one of the main reasons i liked SWG was because of ther mature community. If i could go back in time i would shoot my computer and tell myself not to touch MMOs till i was 14, They consumed so much of my childhood i wish i could have it back, but that was my choice, and my regret. And people wonder why kids are obese, i was one of the fortunate more talented kids who played baseball and stayed in shape. SOE is going towards a Runescape type of payment option, i guarantee they would make more money with 15$ a month. Yeah kids dont have credit cards, but they can get one from their parents, its the perfect way for the parents to monitor the kids playtime, cut them off at the source, the money.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I do not understand the objection to this model for MMOs. Placing well-founded distrust of SOE aside, why is the business model of paying for content upgrades so objectionable?
Many of you remember PnP D&D. Remember the new monster manual or player manual every few months? 2nd and 3rd edition rules, which required new investment in materials and "content?" Same thing.
Many of you are into card games, Heroclix and the like. A new card or hero comes out- guess what? Pay for added content.
How many upgrade their car stereos from factory grade? Pay extra for a nicer hotel room? Slip the maitre D' a $20 for a better table at a fancy restaraunt?
Hell, go to the movies and guess what? You pay extra for popcorn and soda. An "upgrade" to your viewing experience. Essentially no difference.
There are plenty of examples of this very type of model in many other services that you use everyday without objection. Why should MMOs be any different? I see nothing wrong with the model. In fact, welcome it for many reasons. Paying $15 dollars a month, expecting some upgrade or bug cleanup, only to have have your game gutted? I'll pass. But pay $10 for access to a new dungoen or $5 for a killer weapon I don't have to fight off campers for, in an otherwise free game? Sounds decent. As a casual player, content is now available that I might otherwise be locked out of due to lack of time and commitment.
As I said on another thread about this, the deciding factor is whether the content is worth the price being changed. the model itself is not objectionable.
Like I said, if you could buy a card at any store that allowed you to make all the purchase you needed then why would you have to ask your parents? All digital media releases, no disks to print, cards for everything. Kids are their target.
SOE once did a little skit showing how easy it is to pick up a pre-paid credit card at your local store (it was directed at teens that play their games). I expect they have no respect for a parents wishes so yeah, why not show kids how to buy the ticket to feed their need behnd parents backs. Is it convenience? Or just the Junkie maker showing you another one of his products?
i would really rather pay 15$ a month then get this shit everytime i want to advance in a game..... because eventually you quit following how much money your actually giving them, and then people with more money get more advantages .... there would be huge balancing issues. along side another list of issues. regular P2P is easy, balanced, and no complications.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Wanna know why I think it’s dumb? Because it completely kills the immersion of a game for me and makes the game no more than one giant nickel arcade game. No one takes it seriously; people rarely stick around long enough to form those tight community bonds we all remember in SWG, and if a story sucks, you’re stuck with the bill. I call it “Toll Bridge game play” To get to this side, it’ll be $10 please” only people feel so obligated to pay it because there is no long way around. Pay or you can’t get through, if you don’t like what’s on the other side you can’t get your money back because you already crossed over it.
I agree, this new approach seems disturbing. It will be free to get, but once you get far along in the game per say...how much will it cost you? Sounds like real life to much.
Toll Bridge game play.. I like that term. Well done.
The idea behind the item shop and this kind of "free game but perks with cash" is an interesting one. I'd love to see financial data from companies with the standard P2P (pay to play) model compared to successful games with an item shop.
I think in P2P games the players expect a great deal more from the developer, which (hopefully) will motivate the developer to give the players more.
However the F2P (free to play) model with optional item shop does give rise to a generally larger player base, but I'd also be interested to see how many players overall in a F2P game actually use the item shop. I bet it's only those at the very top tier of gameplay. Those looking for a competitive edge.
Again, I would be very interested to see their financial data....
Star Wars Galaxies 2 in 2008/09? Errr... maybe 2010/11
But that will be a game not of Star Wars, example:
Player: I want to be a Jedi, but it takes way too long to make Lightsabers. Really, one week to build a cool saber, that's too long. I want one now!
Candyman: Psst, come over here kid to my mall. I have lots of sabers for you to choose from. And they only cost $2 each, $5 for the really cool most awesome ones. What do you say?
Player: That's real money?
Candyman: Of course, but you get it right now. Beat the grind man.
Player: I don't know, seems like cheapening the game.
Candyman: Oh come on, all the cool kids are doing it. Tell you what, since you seem to be a smart kid, this first saber is free.
Player: Really?
Candyman: Yeah, on me. Take it out and tell me what you think. I believe you will love it and I have a lot more gear in the mall here for you to pawn all others.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
But as to your "toll bridge" analogy, we have that now with expansions. If the expansion sucks, you can't get your money back and you've probably dropped much more.
Paying more in the middle of a quest would be a deal breaker, granted. But paying to go on to higher levels - got that today, in EQ, EQ2 and, to a lesser degree, SWG. Try getting to level 90 without ROTW and ToOW.
Let me ask you this: If the pricing scheme was such that you could get all the content peicemeal you needed to keep you happy every month for that same $15 you would have paid in a lump sum, what would be the problem? What if you came out $15 one month and $10 the nextt?
Balance issues- Ah, there's the rub. As I said on the other thread, nerfing an item for which players hold a receipt will be a major issue not easily addressed by a generic ELUA. Tread lightly here.
Got a point there... Imagine how some things are done today or was done in SWG, such as with the Combat Upgrade and NGE, which turned a lot of items into junk. Paid items that become useless...
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Paying more in the middle of a quest would be a deal breaker, granted. But paying to go on to higher levels - got that today, in EQ, EQ2 and, to a lesser degree, SWG. Try getting to level 90 without ROTW and ToOW.
Let me ask you this: If the pricing scheme was such that you could get all the content peicemeal you needed to keep you happy every month for that same $15 you would have paid in a lump sum, what would be the problem? What if you came out $15 one month and $10 the nextt?
Balance issues- Ah, there's the rub. As I said on the other thread, nerfing an item for which players hold a receipt will be a major issue not easily addressed by a generic ELUA. Tread lightly here.
i know theres paying to get to higher levels, but thats one payment and you usually get ALOT more content with it (WoW) and no the Toll bridge concept does not work with expansions .... if you dont like one part of an expansion thats understandable, but hateing and not useing ANY of the content you got from the expansion is not really realistic.....quests are different, also if you buy items that dont give you the bang for your buck your out of luck because you cant get a refund. Expansions and small content purchases have many differences. There is just more problems with this kind of payment option, no matter how you look at it, the payment option we have now is better, and should hopefully never become obsolete
EDIT: Also the same goes with your second paragraph .... if you pay 15$ one month, then 20$ the next, then 23$, 7$ there is so many places where this method could go wrong.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
As an adult with many responsibilities like a mortgage, car payment, monthly bills, etc... I need a consistent fee to be able to budget my lifestyle. I already have enough bills that fluctuate, I really don't want another.
Well the big turn off for people and MMO's has and will be the whole "I buy a game for $50 bucks and now have to drop $15 a month?"
However look at how somethings are turning out in gaming. Microsoft has offered downloadable content with Xbox Live for some of it's games. Crackdown (Also known as "The game with the Halo 3 Beta") has a few downloads that add in a few new Weapons and Cars. Battlefield 2 has it's two Booster Packs, both of those just offer a few new maps but sold well. And SOE is NOT the first one to do the whole pay a few bucks to get an item or the like....
Ultima Online has offered some items via it's Website for in game items for a few bucks. Now none of those items are 'game killing' but people did go out and buy them. And many of the overseas MMO's have been doing it longer.
Now really and I will get flack for this, we've been seeing this with Games for a good long time now. Dungeons and Dragons has it's settings like Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance that if the Player wanted them, he or she had to shell out another $20 to $40 bucks. Games like Shadowrun have had little books and the like that add in new Items or settings for the Players. Really this is not a new thing in gaming.
Exactly! This is not some new concept SOE developed in their Evil Lab. They are just planning to expand it considerably.
What I've read on this thread is not objections to the model itself but to the perceived implementation, extended from suspicion of SOE. I believe if another company other than SOE had spearheaded this, there would not be as much debate. I'm on record as liking the concept and will hold further judgement until I see the implementation plan and payment schedule.
You know what would be cool for this? If you could make deposits to an account of some kind from which your content payments were drawn. Then you could setup your own "consistent fee" every month to feed the account.
If the game company did not provide this feature, you could always set up your own game-only bank account to handle this.
My first thought on this is (and has nothing at all to do with SOE or LA):
...so not only would these games continue with the horrible level-based player segregation mechanisms, but they would become even worse by adding new fiscal-based segregations. I just don't see how adding MORE hurdles (which prevents the playerbase from playing together) is a good thing.
Perhaps the powers that be in the MMO industry should take quick glance at a little feature that's worked wonders for the NFL (for those outside North America, this is the "league" for our type of football): it's called a salary cap. The prime motivation with a salary cap is to ensure that one team does not possess a competitive edge merely due to the size of the market in which they dwell.
I don't want to get ganked by George Steinbrenner who's only uber only because he's willing to spend 200$ a month to that end. I just want to play for a few hours every other night on a level playing field against others.
I made the same point in another thread. I agree completely with this, particularly with so many MMO's available and the player base becoming so widespread that the effects of this will be even worse.
Player segregation is an interesting idea I had not considered. Something to think about.
"Salary cap." Nice idea.
But what is the real difference between being ganked by someone willing to spend $200 a month to buy the ubergoodies or someone willing (and able) to spend 200 hours a month collecting the ubergoodies? Would it be fair to impose a "salary cap" when there has never been a cap on grind hours?
This goes to the belief that you shouldn't "buy" your goodies, but "earn" them. Is grinding 24/7 "earning" them any more than working a fulltime job and using the proceeds to "buy" them? This is recreation, after all. Is buying a fully rigged RC airplane any "less" than building one from scratch, if all you really want to do is fly the thing?
Someone will always have some advantage in someway, whether they have an abundance of time for grinding or an abundance of extra cash for buying.
Wow you guys just refuse to let go... I'm a Pre-CU vet too, and guess what? SWG wasn't the end-all, be-all. Really, it wasn't. I miss the people in my old guild, first and foremost. (Actually, I recently learned most are still playing!) Second, I miss the sandboxy feel and crafting. But SWG did not feel Star Warsy at all once you got past the music and sound effects. But I digress...
This article is nearly two years old. Some things are still valid, many have changed.
No, she didn't. If you read the article, the "when" was author's, he wasn't quoting Nancy directly with the word "when." Nitpicking perhaps, but that is what is written. In fact, the only part of that sentence in quotes is "Star Wars Galaxies 2," nothing more.
Ok seriously, you Immersion People are really stretching the context of the word too far. It will break your precious "immersion" if you buy content or items from an offical online shop, but buying a boxed expansion in a store does not?
A recent episode of the VirginWorlds podcast was recorded at the SOE Fan Faire and Smedley was talking about Free Realms. He said, in that game anyway, the current plan is to sell extra items such as clothing, pets, whatever. Casual or RP items. But not uber items that would give paying customers a combat advantage over the non-paying customers.