I was not aware they are attempting the sell ingame stuff and zones for money trick. That might work if they had a game that people would pay for those things but are you serious about thinking Codemasters is even in the black with Archlord at this point? It's going to take a whole lot of swords and orbs sales to make that up. This is what is known as damage control and nothing more, regardless of business model. The game is doomed by the looks of things but I will concede that perhaps Codemasters has and is willing to put resources into this in what I regard as a vain attempt to keep it afloat. There is also the possibility that for marketing reasons a company may care about consumer perceptions of trust for future releases. In other words, if something fails and the reaction were to outright kill it and shut down the servers, how likely would gamers be to trust the same company next time around with any pay for play game. Generally speaking there is a $50. commitment beyond free trials to purchase and play something further. If the company's last game sunk in just months how would that impact a future effort in terms of consumer's perception and willingness to spend money knowing last time they abandoned ship? I don't know they think that way of course but you have to wonder when you see examples like SOE keeping games like Planetside afloat. Then again, SOE actually purchased a failed game (Matrix) so who knows what thier business strategy is. Maybe they just wanted some low maintenence inconsequential and inexpensive filler for the "All Access" deal they promote and Matrix was a cheap addition, I can't imagine Planetside costs them much as they have done little to it for years now. It was clear early on that Auto Assault was not going to make it however they did keep it up for a year and I am inclined to think it was a mix of the reasons cited above and a sincere effort at first to make it work but it just didn't so they at least cut thier losses and ended it.
The game has been running on an item shop model in Korea and China for over a year now. In fact, its a quite popular game in China. If people are willing to pay for it there, I see no reason why people wouldn't pay for it here. As of now there has been no sign of the game closing down. Codemasters has never let a dying product continue just for the same of consumer perceptions. They had no problems with canceling Dragon Empire.
Iv been watching these forums recently, mainly to see how people would react to Archlord going totally free and to be honest im shocked at some of the idiocy. Why are people complaining ? Archlord was not fit to be P2P that is fair enough and i dont know what CM are thinking and this hasnt helped Archlords rep atall, but its really time to drop that now as they are trying to make up for there mistake so it seems. Now as for Archlords quality as a F2P game, well i think its pretty damn good, its definatly in the top 5 and i have played pretty much every single F2P mmo out there so far. It has great PVP, fair enough its a grinder (what F2P game isnt) but it does have atleast one unique feature and thats the Archlord system and one unique feature is better than ZERO that most other F2P games (and alot of P2P games) offer. Iv seen people comparing it to WoW and other P2P games, what the hell are you people thinking, a P2P game is bound to have more features (or should do, alot dont) just due to its funding. I saw some guy complaining about it not having an opening cinematic, i ask you, are you for real, iv not seen even ONE F2P game with an opening movie when you actually start the game up, infact most P2P MMOS dont have one either, again another person comparing it to WoW (thats what he actually said in his post to). Ok so its a typical Asian point and click grinder, so what, some people enjoy them. But Archlord is one of the best F2P asian point and click grinders out there. To all the haters, the game is actually starting to pick up now population wise and the game itself, but it still hasnt got the population it deserves. Look at Silkroad and some other F2P games, they are packed and i cant understand why this one isnt right now. I really do hope CM get a huge increase in players, the game most definatly does deserve it now. Thanks alot Garrik
"point and click grinder" pretty much says it all in terms of the game's perceived worthlessness and the community vote via thier wallets to the same effect. This is not a game that began its life as free. It became free when nobody would spend for it since the universal take on this was it was a train wreck of a game not worth a nickel. I'm sorry but the market has spoken and no amount of attempted justification or excuses for a substandard pay to play game which failed and thus became free, is going to help its cause. I'm glad you enjoy it for what it is worth, which is zero. There's nothing wrong with that but you cannot tell me the game has any redeeming value for me because it clearly does not. I'm not a "hater" or whatever. I simply want to have fun in my free time and in my view, this ain't fun.
Ok, well you dont like the game fair enough, atleast your not being totally unfair in your views like some. But i would have played AL in P2P if it had more players, unfortunatly it didnt get many but now it does, so to me it is now worth playing atleast until somthing better comes out that i havnt already tried.
People have been saying Archlord is going to shut down for ages now and it never has and some how i highly doubt its going to shut down now when it id doing better than it ever has done.
Oh just one point though, you said "I'm glad you enjoy it for what it is worth, which is zero" now are you referring to AL being worth zero, if so then fair enough, it is your opinion, but if your saying my opinion is worth zero, then hey get out of my thread, its your opinion that is worth zero here.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
Originally posted by Lyolas I forgot to add that is always amusing to see how people view the quality of a game depending on whether it is free or not. Quality is not measured by price. It either is or is not there but price doesn't make it any more or less. That said, I can understand fooling around with something that's free since at least it doesn't cost money. However, it does cost your valuable and finite time. Nobody gets out of here alive you know? Since life is far to short to waste, how can you justify time spent on something you would say sucked when it cost something to play and then say it is cool now because its free? Why would your playtime vary according to whether some steaming pile is free or not? lol
I missed this bit earlier.
Its like with anything, if the price is right people will buy it regardless, now IMO, AL wasnt upto par with P2P games and therefore wouldnt have been worth the retail price + the fact it had limited players. Now thats its free its up there with the other F2P games and been as that is what im currently playing (F2P only) due to the fact that im burnt out on all the cookie cutter P2P mmos out right now, i see Archlord as a great game to play whilst i wait for the next game i enjoy (could be a while) and many others will play it for the same reason.
Right now the MMO scene is in dire need of somthing new and somthing spectacular, because right now everything is pretty much identicle and the odd few unique MMOS around not doing so well mainly due to there age. Anyway, thats for a different topic all together.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
Sorry, I don't think your opinion is worth zero, just this particular game from what I know of it. Gamespot gave it a 2.7 and user reviews tend to agree with that. I am actually going to try it because I now want to see for myself for the fun of it.
In any case while it can be fun to talk about this shared interest we have and even the sometimes heated discussions can be funny if you look at them right, I don't think for a moment that I somehow am all knowing and the world is according to me.
The bottom line though I said it badly is, if this is fun for you that's good enough. I do think you could do better myself but then, the price is right on this one. I will give them that.
As for micro transactions, I hate them. Many people have expressed thier disdain for them. I can't predict the future anymore than anybody else but I am inclined to believe and certainly hope that this model fails because I see it as nickel and diming people for something they have already said isn't worth a normal game price to them in many cases.
I don't think attempts to milk customers for more money outside of software purchases and monthly fees will fly over the long haul but we'll see because they are already trying it and plan to do more of it. I am hoping the market has the sense to reject this.
Sorry, I don't think your opinion is worth zero, just this particular game from what I know of it. Gamespot gave it a 2.7 and user reviews tend to agree with that. I am actually going to try it because I now want to see for myself for the fun of it. In any case while it can be fun to talk about this shared interest we have and even the sometimes heated discussions can be funny if you look at them right, I don't think for a moment that I somehow am all knowing and the world is according to me. The bottom line though I said it badly is, if this is fun for you that's good enough. I do think you could do better myself but then, the price is right on this one. I will give them that. As for micro transactions, I hate them. Many people have expressed thier disdain for them. I can't predict the future anymore than anybody else but I am inclined to believe and certainly hope that this model fails because I see it as nickel and diming people for something they have already said isn't worth a normal game price to them in many cases. I don't think attempts to milk customers for more money outside of software purchases and monthly fees will fly over the long haul but we'll see because they are already trying it and plan to do more of it. I am hoping the market has the sense to reject this.
The model has already succeeded. Its the new norm in Asia and more and more games start using it. Games such as Silkroad and Maple Story are incredbly succesful with this payment method. In fact, Maple story is so successful, a Nintendo DS version of the game and an anime is under development. Sony Online Entertainment has decided to use the micro transaction model for its future games such as The Agency. Micro Transactions are becomming more and more popular.
About gamespot, I'm just going to point out one thing. Look at the screenshots. the ones that have the same date as the review are the screenshots the reviewer took. If you look at the screenshots you will notice that the highest level the character got was level 7. And No, I'm not kidding, I'm dead serious. The reviewer of Gamespot played till level 7, a level that you reach in 30 minutes of playtime, 5 to 10 minutes if you know what you're doing.
Thats the real problem with playing games like ArchLord, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online, etc. These are games that simply require time before they become fun and more open, they are based on the competive nature of pvp players, and the fact of the matter is that you're not competing at level 1. it takes some time. Reviewers clearly don't have the time to sit and spend weeks on 1 game, which is understandable, but it makes reviews like this a bit incorrect. For example, if you read some other reviews, you will find that some claim that PVP is all about who has the most potions. again, this is completely incorrect. In fact, I made a new alt some time ago,I did not transfer any cash or items. My character could easily outdamage potions by a lot more damage.
Comparisons of Asian and North American markets are moot. We are different cultures. We have already seen that sometimes what is popular there is not popular here, Lineage and Lineage II for example. What they like and are willing to accept is not neccessarily the same thing the rest of the world will embrace.
Screenshots don't prove he played to level seven, simply that he stopped taking them at that point. The reviewer made his case for his take on the game and it stands as such.
This is not rocket science. It does not take a huge investment of time to figure out from all means around you whether a game experience is for you or not and therefore if in your mind, it sucks or not.
In any case, no single review is Gospel but when the overall review scores averaged are abysmal its a fair indicator something went wrong. Even then, somebody could still like a game most hate but it doesn't change the majority view.
Comparisons of Asian and North American markets are moot. We are different cultures. We have already seen that sometimes what is popular there is not popular here, Lineage and Lineage II for example. What they like and are willing to accept is not neccessarily the same thing the rest of the world will embrace. Screenshots don't prove he played to level seven, simply that he stopped taking them at that point. The reviewer made his case for his take on the game and it stands as such. This is not rocket science. It does not take a huge investment of time to figure out from all means around you whether a game experience is for you or not and therefore if in your mind, it sucks or not. In any case, no single review is Gospel but when the overall review scores averaged are abysmal its a fair indicator something went wrong. Even then, somebody could still like a game most hate but it doesn't change the majority view.
If you haven't experienced a feature, you're just guessing. assuming. Take the Archlord review again, for example. The reviewer makes comments about the ArchLord system. The sad part is that the Archlord system was not even implanted at the time of the review.
If you're just guessing what a feature will be like instead of actually experiencing is..you're kinda defeating the point of a critical review.
Take Lineage and Lineage 2 for example. Both games that have received mediocre scores from western reviewers. If these games are such bad games, then how is it possible that these MMO's are some of the most popular MMORPG's in the world? In fact, Lineage 1 still has about 1 million subscribers almost 10 years after release! The reason these games get low scores is the same as ArchLord: Critics (and most western MMORPG players) can not be bothered to explore the whole game. They have a "I want my cookie and I want it NOW!" attitude.
Lyolas, i respect your opinion and its fair enough, so atleast good form to you for not being like the regular numbskulls around here.
Give the game a try though and play it until level 12 atleast and tell us what you think. if you still dislike it then no probs, but maybe you might enjoy it either way no harm done if you dont mind spending the time that is.
Oh and that gamespot review is absolutly abysmal, the writer should be shot, its just totally incorrect to give AL such a terrible score when they have given far worse games alot better and if you actually read the user reviews on gamespot alot of them disagree.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
Lyolas, i respect your opinion and its fair enough, so atleast good form to you for not being like the regular numbskulls around here. Give the game a try though and play it until level 12 atleast and tell us what you think. if you still dislike it then no probs, but maybe you might enjoy it either way no harm done if you dont mind spending the time that is. Oh and that gamespot review is absolutly abysmal, the writer should be shot, its just totally incorrect to give AL such a terrible score when they have given far worse games alot better and if you actually read the user reviews on gamespot alot of them disagree. Garrik
heh level 12? Pvp doesn't start until level 15.
I suggest getting to at least level 30 nowadays. Join a clan full of new players, and go fight other clans. There is also plenty of pvp to be found near tullan.
For a free to play mmorpg, Ive rather enjoyed AL. I have characters on both servers, one all orcs, the other a human knight and the two elf classes and Ive lvled up toons to the point where they are almost ready for pvp. I am not a big pvp fan though honestly, but the pve content remains a bit quirky as the text is translated from Korean and consists of mostly "go kill 10 of x mob and return to me." Then again, show me a mmorpg that does not do that kind of quest ;-)
I really like the idea of a bank vault sharable by all toons on the same server. Though limited, the character avatars are nicely rendered and the armour sets look quite good. The sense that this is a Korean mmorpg is clearly evident and gives the game a lot of character; but past a certain point it clearly becomes a rather intense grind, more so that I think most American gamers are going to want to invest their time in, especially since to truly achieve higher levels you are going to need to spend a great deal of real dollars.
Because honestly, AL isnt really free to play. My lvl 1 toon of all things got a plat treasure chest to drop, but if I had wanted to open it, I would have had to spend real dollars for a key. Ick. Each character has a very small ammount of inventory and the only way to expand it is to spend real dollars for more spaces. If you want to avoid perma xp loss you need to spend real dollars for special orbs. Etc. over and over the only real way to succeed past a certain point is to spend real dollars.
Now I understand CM needs to make money somehow, this game is not a charity drive. But I also understand why many players who try AL and quit do so because they sense a kind of bait and switch going on. AL is one of those games I will keep on my pc and play from time to time, but I never see myself paying dollars for a key, or for orbs. It might be fun to get to lvl 35 and get a mount, they look rather cool; but honestly if I am going to have to pay to play a game to it's fullest realization, then I am going to play a game like WoW or EQ2.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Garrik Lyolas, i respect your opinion and its fair enough, so atleast good form to you for not being like the regular numbskulls around here. Give the game a try though and play it until level 12 atleast and tell us what you think. if you still dislike it then no probs, but maybe you might enjoy it either way no harm done if you dont mind spending the time that is. Oh and that gamespot review is absolutly abysmal, the writer should be shot, its just totally incorrect to give AL such a terrible score when they have given far worse games alot better and if you actually read the user reviews on gamespot alot of them disagree. Garrik
heh level 12? Pvp doesn't start until level 15. I suggest getting to at least level 30 nowadays. Join a clan full of new players, and go fight other clans. There is also plenty of pvp to be found near tullan.
I wasnt meaning just for the PVP, i think by level 12 you are kind of set into the game, by that time you have your second armour set and weapon. You cant possibly expect everyone to go for level 30 although that would be better.
But yes, a clan is important =].
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
Comments
The game has been running on an item shop model in Korea and China for over a year now. In fact, its a quite popular game in China. If people are willing to pay for it there, I see no reason why people wouldn't pay for it here. As of now there has been no sign of the game closing down. Codemasters has never let a dying product continue just for the same of consumer perceptions. They had no problems with canceling Dragon Empire.
Ok, well you dont like the game fair enough, atleast your not being totally unfair in your views like some. But i would have played AL in P2P if it had more players, unfortunatly it didnt get many but now it does, so to me it is now worth playing atleast until somthing better comes out that i havnt already tried.
People have been saying Archlord is going to shut down for ages now and it never has and some how i highly doubt its going to shut down now when it id doing better than it ever has done.
Oh just one point though, you said "I'm glad you enjoy it for what it is worth, which is zero" now are you referring to AL being worth zero, if so then fair enough, it is your opinion, but if your saying my opinion is worth zero, then hey get out of my thread, its your opinion that is worth zero here.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
I missed this bit earlier.
Its like with anything, if the price is right people will buy it regardless, now IMO, AL wasnt upto par with P2P games and therefore wouldnt have been worth the retail price + the fact it had limited players. Now thats its free its up there with the other F2P games and been as that is what im currently playing (F2P only) due to the fact that im burnt out on all the cookie cutter P2P mmos out right now, i see Archlord as a great game to play whilst i wait for the next game i enjoy (could be a while) and many others will play it for the same reason.
Right now the MMO scene is in dire need of somthing new and somthing spectacular, because right now everything is pretty much identicle and the odd few unique MMOS around not doing so well mainly due to there age. Anyway, thats for a different topic all together.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
Sorry, I don't think your opinion is worth zero, just this particular game from what I know of it. Gamespot gave it a 2.7 and user reviews tend to agree with that. I am actually going to try it because I now want to see for myself for the fun of it.
In any case while it can be fun to talk about this shared interest we have and even the sometimes heated discussions can be funny if you look at them right, I don't think for a moment that I somehow am all knowing and the world is according to me.
The bottom line though I said it badly is, if this is fun for you that's good enough. I do think you could do better myself but then, the price is right on this one. I will give them that.
As for micro transactions, I hate them. Many people have expressed thier disdain for them. I can't predict the future anymore than anybody else but I am inclined to believe and certainly hope that this model fails because I see it as nickel and diming people for something they have already said isn't worth a normal game price to them in many cases.
I don't think attempts to milk customers for more money outside of software purchases and monthly fees will fly over the long haul but we'll see because they are already trying it and plan to do more of it. I am hoping the market has the sense to reject this.
He who hesitates is lost.
About gamespot, I'm just going to point out one thing. Look at the screenshots. the ones that have the same date as the review are the screenshots the reviewer took. If you look at the screenshots you will notice that the highest level the character got was level 7. And No, I'm not kidding, I'm dead serious. The reviewer of Gamespot played till level 7, a level that you reach in 30 minutes of playtime, 5 to 10 minutes if you know what you're doing.
Thats the real problem with playing games like ArchLord, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online, etc. These are games that simply require time before they become fun and more open, they are based on the competive nature of pvp players, and the fact of the matter is that you're not competing at level 1. it takes some time. Reviewers clearly don't have the time to sit and spend weeks on 1 game, which is understandable, but it makes reviews like this a bit incorrect. For example, if you read some other reviews, you will find that some claim that PVP is all about who has the most potions. again, this is completely incorrect. In fact, I made a new alt some time ago,I did not transfer any cash or items. My character could easily outdamage potions by a lot more damage.
Comparisons of Asian and North American markets are moot. We are different cultures. We have already seen that sometimes what is popular there is not popular here, Lineage and Lineage II for example. What they like and are willing to accept is not neccessarily the same thing the rest of the world will embrace.
Screenshots don't prove he played to level seven, simply that he stopped taking them at that point. The reviewer made his case for his take on the game and it stands as such.
This is not rocket science. It does not take a huge investment of time to figure out from all means around you whether a game experience is for you or not and therefore if in your mind, it sucks or not.
In any case, no single review is Gospel but when the overall review scores averaged are abysmal its a fair indicator something went wrong. Even then, somebody could still like a game most hate but it doesn't change the majority view.
He who hesitates is lost.
If you haven't experienced a feature, you're just guessing. assuming. Take the Archlord review again, for example. The reviewer makes comments about the ArchLord system. The sad part is that the Archlord system was not even implanted at the time of the review.
If you're just guessing what a feature will be like instead of actually experiencing is..you're kinda defeating the point of a critical review.
Take Lineage and Lineage 2 for example. Both games that have received mediocre scores from western reviewers. If these games are such bad games, then how is it possible that these MMO's are some of the most popular MMORPG's in the world? In fact, Lineage 1 still has about 1 million subscribers almost 10 years after release! The reason these games get low scores is the same as ArchLord: Critics (and most western MMORPG players) can not be bothered to explore the whole game. They have a "I want my cookie and I want it NOW!" attitude.
Archlord isn't too bad. its definitely only fit to be a free game with how simplistic it is and how many bugs it has.
Lyolas, i respect your opinion and its fair enough, so atleast good form to you for not being like the regular numbskulls around here.
Give the game a try though and play it until level 12 atleast and tell us what you think. if you still dislike it then no probs, but maybe you might enjoy it either way no harm done if you dont mind spending the time that is.
Oh and that gamespot review is absolutly abysmal, the writer should be shot, its just totally incorrect to give AL such a terrible score when they have given far worse games alot better and if you actually read the user reviews on gamespot alot of them disagree.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
I suggest getting to at least level 30 nowadays. Join a clan full of new players, and go fight other clans. There is also plenty of pvp to be found near tullan.
For a free to play mmorpg, Ive rather enjoyed AL. I have characters on both servers, one all orcs, the other a human knight and the two elf classes and Ive lvled up toons to the point where they are almost ready for pvp. I am not a big pvp fan though honestly, but the pve content remains a bit quirky as the text is translated from Korean and consists of mostly "go kill 10 of x mob and return to me." Then again, show me a mmorpg that does not do that kind of quest ;-)
I really like the idea of a bank vault sharable by all toons on the same server. Though limited, the character avatars are nicely rendered and the armour sets look quite good. The sense that this is a Korean mmorpg is clearly evident and gives the game a lot of character; but past a certain point it clearly becomes a rather intense grind, more so that I think most American gamers are going to want to invest their time in, especially since to truly achieve higher levels you are going to need to spend a great deal of real dollars.
Because honestly, AL isnt really free to play. My lvl 1 toon of all things got a plat treasure chest to drop, but if I had wanted to open it, I would have had to spend real dollars for a key. Ick. Each character has a very small ammount of inventory and the only way to expand it is to spend real dollars for more spaces. If you want to avoid perma xp loss you need to spend real dollars for special orbs. Etc. over and over the only real way to succeed past a certain point is to spend real dollars.
Now I understand CM needs to make money somehow, this game is not a charity drive. But I also understand why many players who try AL and quit do so because they sense a kind of bait and switch going on. AL is one of those games I will keep on my pc and play from time to time, but I never see myself paying dollars for a key, or for orbs. It might be fun to get to lvl 35 and get a mount, they look rather cool; but honestly if I am going to have to pay to play a game to it's fullest realization, then I am going to play a game like WoW or EQ2.
Peace now.
I suggest getting to at least level 30 nowadays. Join a clan full of new players, and go fight other clans. There is also plenty of pvp to be found near tullan.
I wasnt meaning just for the PVP, i think by level 12 you are kind of set into the game, by that time you have your second armour set and weapon. You cant possibly expect everyone to go for level 30 although that would be better.
But yes, a clan is important =].
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."