As a fan of table top D&D I really enjoyed my 2 runs through the trial of DDO. Forming a party and completing an instanced dungeon was tons of fun! I regret that I have been too involved with other games and haven't been able to see too far into the game, but I was able to get further than most were able in my second trial run. I hope the games player base has not advanced to far for me to enjoy this game when I finally come around. But I guess like table top you eventually try a new class / character for a different roleplay style!
Nah there is plenty of people even on lower levels, its easy to find a party at any time on EU servers.
Ok well I have been playing the game since alpha and I have had seven level 14 chars. Currently I am considered the best cleric on the gal server. But… this game sucks… it sucks from level 1 to 4 and it sucks from level 4 to 14. the only reason I am still playing is that I have friends that play. If all of my friends leave the game I have no reason at all to keep this going. Now the game does have some good points but when you look at other mmos that don’t charge as much as ddo there is nothing special about it at all. Now some people have said they like ddo kuz it doesn’t have the grind that other mmos have… well those people need to remember that after level 14 all you do is run prison of the planes over and over and over and over or you are running one of the raids. That’s it… the game has nothing other than that. Then if you look at the dev posts they don’t have any plans to change it. All of the updates that are coming are just to keep people from using current exploits in the game… that’s it… the next module was pushed back and the recent server merge pissed off so many people that server populations continue to drop. If you like the game that’s good… but soon… if things keep going the way they are going now the game will end due to no one playing.
"Now the game does have some good points but when you look at other mmos that don’t charge as much as ddo there is nothing special about it at all"
What MMO's charge less than DDO? They are all pretty much 15 bucks a month or so from what I've seen. Here's a shortlist of what's special btw:
1. Character customization. No other MMO on the market today is even close due to multiclassing and no set roles. Clerics don't have to be healbots, rangers don't have to range, etc. and all still be extremely viable characters.
2. Active Combat System. No other MMO has anything close to the combat system in DDO...period. Age of Conan may, we'll see, but right now if you watch the gameplay videos...it doesn't.
3. All instanced. I dont' have to stand around with 20 other schmucks waiting for the Vorpal Bunny can show up and one of us can kill it for the special item we all need.
4. Actual quests. Sorry, I don't consider "hey, go kill 50 wolves and bring back their hides" a quest. Even the simplest of DDO quests have an actual story and an instanced dungeon attached to it.
"well those people need to remember that after level 14 all you do is run prison of the planes over and over and over and over or you are running one of the raids"
No, that's what you choose to do. Many people I know start a new character or work on favor or do a dozen other things. Crafting is coming, there's another time sink for you, but what exactly do you think the endgame of WoW or virtually other MMO is??? Guess what...grinding raids.
"All of the updates that are coming are just to keep people from using current exploits in the game… that’s it… the next module was pushed back and the recent server merge pissed off so many people that server populations continue to drop"
This is so ridiculous I almost ignored it...but won't. The next update (that does also include anti exploit fixes) also includes 7 or 8 new monsters, a huge outdoor area the size of gianthold, 11 new quests, a new raid, etc. The release after that is said to include the same amount of new content, as well as possibly a new class or race. They've had 2 updates pushed back by QA in almost 2 years of montly releases...hardly a catastrophe, and the server merge has made many people very happy and I've seen our guild grow by about 20% from new players...not server merge players...new ones.
"if things keep going the way they are going now the game will end due to no one playing."
OH NOES! Yeah, been hearing this since launch. NWN 2 will kill DDO. Vanguard will kill DDO. The new enhancements will kill DDO. PVP will kill DDO. Not having PVP will kill DDO. LOTRO will kill DDO. The server merge will kill DDO. blah...blah...blah.
Sorry man, but if you actually are still playing and paying for a game after 2 years that you think sucks, your entire credibility falls into question for simple intelligence.
i probably would have played this game past teh trial if it was based in forgotten realms and had a regular lvl system but noo it had to be different and take away what i love about D&D
No offense man, but Forgotten Realms has been done to death. My first impression of Eberron was probably similar, wasn't into flying machines and robots...but then I read about it a bit and learned some of the mythos of it, and it's frankly a very cool setting with a huge opportunity for growth.
So how much does turbine pay for gorilla marketing these days? You know… you shouldn’t use turbine marketing buzz words or direct quotes from the DDO forums in posts if you want to stay creditable. Also in some of your posts you talk about game updates that have not been announced yet… by the way you can thank brian from your design team for selling you out. So why am I still playing the game… just like most people waiting for Age Of Conan to come out. The one aspect of DDO that I have to give credit to turbine for is that it let people make some better friendships in the game. DDO has the feel of a bunch of friends getting around a table and gamming all night way more than a lot of other mmos out their.
1. There's no such thing as "gorilla marketing" unless you're either using primates to advertise or advertising to them. It's guerilla marketing.
2. What updates haven't been announced? I can tell you which ones have...and give you the link to the producer's post about it if you like. Half elves, Half orcs, Monks, Druids, Crafting, Guild Housing.
Oh yes, I know...Age of Conan is now the "DDO Killer"...well thankfully the release has been delayed 6 months LOL!
Good luck with that (read "enjoy Vanguard part 2")
sothorn you are totaly right... its not D&D its an MMO and for all the pissing and moaning i do about this game not being real D&D it still holds my interest some fo the time. i think the thing that really upsets me the most is that turbine really doesnt seem to care about the game as much as some of us did in the begining. its like they put it out there then forgot abotu it. now i know the turbine marketing guy is going to come back and say but they released updates every three months or so since day one... and yea they did... but just about all of them had been very lame updates. nothing compaired to what was avalable day one. like look at storm cleave, that is about one of the best DDO dungeons out. it has everything you would see in a pen and paper module. but since the release of DDO not one dungeon has come close to it. but like you said its an MMO... i need to get over it... and let the marketing guy keep trying to get new players to come to the game...
1. AD&D was released in the 70's...it hasn't been an updated D&D ruleset in 30 years. You want to play it, great...but no one is going to make games based on it.
2. Sorry, but I immediately pull credibility from someone criticizing DDO if they're currently playing WoW.
As for the goth guy...they released MONTHLY updates, not quarterly updates since release. Are you sure you actually play this game? As far as the "next stormcleave"...no thanks. Crucible, Relic, the Stormreaver 6 man, Wiz King, Invaders, and on and on have all been a helluva lot better quests than Stormcleave. If you want another stormcleave, go run around the adventure areas and kill all the unique spawns and go for slayer and explorer, it's about the same.
Sorry, but the majority of your arguments aren't just lame...they're utterly false. "DDO is more expensive than most MMO's"=false. "DDO has an update every three months"=false. I mean, at least try to stay factual in slamming the game you've dumped your money into every month for two years (supposedly) and still do.
EDIT: btw, there's been 2 delayed updates, both by about a month...which even for those two would be every two months, preceeded by every month for 16 months.
Dude give it up you are such a dumbass its not even funny… vincenz go back to some other kind of marketing… really… your quoting from the damn ddo forums again. DDO is more expensive than most MMOs yes if you take into account how much content DDO has vrs other MMOs even after a year on the market DDO does not have as much content as LOTR the other turbine game, how is that marketing guy? Do I slam DDO? hell yes I do mostly because if you try and slam them on crap that they pull on the DDO forums they will delete your post… hmm… sound like the Nazis… yea a bit… people need to get both sides of the coin, the good and the bad and that is what forums are for. I have my views and you marketing guys have yours. But the reality is that everyone needs to make up their own damn mind about the game. I encourage everyone to run a 10 day on just about every game even wow. To find what game you like to play… and yes I play the game and have since release… why… because I have friends that play. Now I know you marketing guys not have friends… you know… kuz your all buttheads… but some of us do and I like to hang out with my friends and game with them… and if they like to play DDO than that is where I am stuck gaming myself. Now when they leave I will leave and have no problems with that but don’t come on here and say that I am wrong kuz of what I think that just makes you look like an ass yourself. Now you have your opinion and that is good… but by trying to say that others can have one too just makes you look like the butthole that you are. So if I write a post about things that are bad in the game you go and write one about the good points. Shhhh don’t tell anyone but that’s how these things work…
Originally posted by Vincenz 1. Character customization. No other MMO on the market today is even close due to multiclassing and no set roles. Clerics don't have to be healbots, rangers don't have to range, etc. and all still be extremely viable characters.
No offense, but you'd have to have a pretty short memory to completely forget about Turbine's very first MMO, Asheron's Call (which, coincidentally, is still in the market).
There is simply no MMO on the market today which approaches anything like the freedom of the character builds in Asheron's Call. None. Certainly not DDO.
2. Active Combat System. No other MMO has anything close to the combat system in DDO...period. Age of Conan may, we'll see, but right now if you watch the gameplay videos...it doesn't.
Which for many customers simply wasn't a plus. D&D revolves around character development in a way which allowed the player to quantify the effects of their choices, i.e., if you chose weapon specializations, etc., you knew the immediate impact that choice would have. The combat system in DDO makes many of those choices pretty opaque. That skill you worked for may or may not have an effect, depending on whether you actually hit your target in a clicking frenzy.
Sorry, but for my part, I'm playing a character based on a set of rules that does not rely on my ability to chase something around. The active combat system is a negative in my book. It further reduces my choices based on my ability to physically target and hit something, rather than on the abilities I've chosen for my character, and then it adds in a random hit/miss ratio. Ugh.
3. All instanced. I dont' have to stand around with 20 other schmucks waiting for the Vorpal Bunny can show up and one of us can kill it for the special item we all need. 4. Actual quests. Sorry, I don't consider "hey, go kill 50 wolves and bring back their hides" a quest. Even the simplest of DDO quests have an actual story and an instanced dungeon attached to it.
This would be a huge plus IF the DDO world did not completely revolve around one large city supported by instances only. Random encounters were always a huge part of PnP D&D, especially when traveling from one point to another. In addition, the manner in which DDO has their world set up leaves practically no feeling of discovery. You simply get a task, move to the instance location and do the instance. The next time you go in, it's exactly the same.
If the instances had been dynamic (changing from entry to entry) that would at least have been a plus. As a thief player on this forum posted, when you go in, your party members pretty much point out exactly where the traps are, etc. For my part, knowing what was going to happen simply wasn't fun.
"well those people need to remember that after level 14 all you do is run prison of the planes over and over and over and over or you are running one of the raids" No, that's what you choose to do. Many people I know start a new character or work on favor or do a dozen other things. Crafting is coming, there's another time sink for you, but what exactly do you think the endgame of WoW or virtually other MMO is??? Guess what...grinding raids.
Crafting should have been in the game from the get go. As I've pointed out before, where in the heck did "Melf's Acid Arrow" come from? A wizard named Melf, that's where! So how exactly is it that every new adventurer has no idea how to create new items? Did all of the races simply forget how to craft?
Of course they didn't.
For those who seem to think that crafting isn't that important, think about it for a minute; if there were no crafting in fantasy fiction or gaming, we wouldn't have Sting, Mournblade, Stormbringer, Glamdring, the One Ring, Melf's Acid Arrow (or any other spell named after its creator), etc.
The problem with crafting is when it is approached as a time sink rather than as a unique, interesting and vital part of the game. The other major issue is the fact that no crafting system that I have seen allows you to create a truly unique, one-of-a-kind item.
If any game ever begged for a system of this type, it would be DDO. There simply cannot be two Stormbringers, etc. Part of the system should include the ability to make completely unique items.
As far as raiding, it's unfortunate that many studios seem to think players want only large raids as end-game content. There is plenty of room for robust, small-scale content at the higher levels that doesn't require hordes of players to accomplish. For that matter, there is plenty of room throughout any MMO for scalable content that is tailored to present a challenge based on the actual group size. This is one thing that CoX did very well.
"if things keep going the way they are going now the game will end due to no one playing." OH NOES! Yeah, been hearing this since launch. NWN 2 will kill DDO. Vanguard will kill DDO. The new enhancements will kill DDO. PVP will kill DDO. Not having PVP will kill DDO. LOTRO will kill DDO. The server merge will kill DDO. blah...blah...blah. Sorry man, but if you actually are still playing and paying for a game after 2 years that you think sucks, your entire credibility falls into question for simple intelligence.
I agree that DDO has succeeded in staying afloat, but I would hardly call it a success in any way. Not only do I personally consider it a less-than-successful adaptation of PnP D&D, I consider it mediocre in simple game design.
It more closely approximates a single player PC game with multi-player elements than a true multi-player. While I understand Turbine's stated motivation for this design decision, to give DDO that feeling of a small party on an adventure, the content simply isn't dynamic enough. Like Guild Wars, once played through there are no real surprises until a new patch comes out.
Unlike Guild Wars, you are paying continuously for content you haven't yet received, which is what has prompted many to wonder why DDO hasn't simply changed to a free to play system with paid expansions, or at least a significantly reduced subscription with paid expansions.
Again, it isn't the case that DDO is a bad game. Far from it. It simply isn't a great game and it failed to meet the expectations of a huge portion of its target audience, the vast majority of which are still sitting at a table somewhere spinning tales of adventure and rolling dice on their kitchen table rather than playing DDO.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq Adnihilo Beorn Judge's Edge Somnulus Perfect Black ---------------------- Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2 Everquest / Everquest 2 Anarchy Online Shadowbane Dark Age of Camelot Star Wars Galaxies Matrix Online World of Warcraft Guild Wars City of Heroes
Well I played the game and maxed out in two weeks. Than it got boring but the game set up was very good. I loved how they did rogues in the game. Not a DPS class!!! But this game needed more and still needs alot more to ever get me to go back.
"DDO is more expensive than most MMOs yes if you take into account how much content DDO has vrs other MMOs even after a year on the market DDO does not have as much content as LOTR the other turbine game"
AHHH...so now it's not more expensive, it's more expensive based on content? Please, at least pick a story and stick with it. Regardless, after the dozen updates or more, I'd say DDO content is right on track with most MMO's that are at the 2 year or less mark, if not further. LOTRO content holds zero interest for me, as most of it is "go kill 20 bears and bring their hides back".
"hell yes I do mostly because if you try and slam them on crap that they pull on the DDO forums they will delete your post"
Um, no they don't. The official forums are full of complaints just like every MMO. They do pull your posts if you call people idiots and nazis and buttheads, as you've done here though. Try speaking like a grownup and you'll get a lot further, regardless if you're still in your teens.
I have no problem with you posting negative aspects of the game from your experience Goth, just lies I have a problem with (like more expensive and 3 months per update).
For Somnulus, I've had a very different experience than you on several fronts. The active combat, I think is sensational myself...not so twitch based that it's an FPS, but a helluva lot more than target bad guy...hit special attack key...wait.
Although I agree that more randomizing in the quests would be a plus, and hope they continue to strive for this, I also think every game on the planet has the "replay" factor where you know what to do...not just DDO. I'd still prefer an immersing, instanced quest to the dominant variety of "quests" in most of the other MMO's on the market today though, even if I know the quest well.
Crafting? Eh...not that interesting to me, but I do hope it's done well. Unfortunately, the games that seem to have nailed crafting didn't find enough of an audience to maintain it and it was dumbed down almost every time.
Regardless, many of the things you talk about: Repetition, content, end game, etc....are complained about in literally every MMO on the market today. I've played many of them and wouldn't dream of resubscribing to any of them because none of them presented what I get in DDO.
EDIT Btw, for the last poster..."maxing out" has absolutely nothing to do with actually experiencing the game. Powerlevelling and rushing to cap you'll hate most games.
Vincenz maybe you don’t pay attention… or you could be blind… but DDO is on module 4 right now… that’s is lets count together… one… two… three… four updates in a year and a half. Now they have put out a smaller updates to try and keep people interested but not all of them have had additional content. We had some small content updates but not what people are looking for. People where expecting UPDATES not content revisions (like the new enhancement system). When turbine said we will be putting out updates every month huge additions to content is what was expected… but never delivered. As for the cost dude look around they are charging a premium rate for ddo. The same rate as the major games like you mentioned in your other post. DDO is not comparable to those. No one wants to pay a lease on a pinto at a cadillac rate. As for deleting posts I have had 5 deleted and talking to other people I play with they have had posts deleted as well. One of them was for calling a moderator crazy for thinking that our party didn’t get screwed in a dungeon when we got to the end but the last guy didn’t spawn and after the GM respawned him we couldn’t talk to him there for couldn’t finish the dungeon. The GM told us that… get this… he couldn’t give us the XP for the dungeon because we didn’t complete it so we would have to restart it. But we where already sitting at the end of the dungeon… so vincenz how many mmorpg.com accounts do you have?
Um...yeah. First of all, many of the releases that aren't "mods" have been quite meaty (take BAM, Invaders, Spawn of Whisperdoom, etc.) and more than ANY other MMO has released for free. Those releases are just that...new content.
There's the release notes for one of those "no content" releases.
Sorry, btw, I don't buy your story about post deletions in the slightest. You've shown ridiculous manners here, so I'm sure they were just as apparent there. Childish insults and namecalling gets posts deleted, not negative thoughts on DDO.
And yes, DDO is listed with all those other games...for the same reason 90% of the critiques here are comparing them to those other games.
If you like, we can start comparing DDO to Sims Online though, and I can then agree that it costs more...however it will also then be the best...game...ever.
Sorry guy, your comments are based in falsehoods from start to finish and you clearly have an axe to grind...my guess is, it's for acting like a 10 year old on the main forums and being banned for it.
Ah always someone that has to come along and feels it is their duty to rake the coals over a game they don't like or did them wrong. Rather than just moving on they gotta flame anyone who enjoys the game.
I'm sorry your time in DDO wasn't fun. I however enjoy DDO very much. As a casual gamer due to school I enjoy the fact I can log in find a group real fast and do a few dungeons. It doesn't bother me one bit it is instanced and I like it because of no campers.
I think the content and updates are sufficient. You talk about doing the same dungeons over and over again. I did the exact same in COH working on badges, did it in EQ2 when lock out timers were up, LOTRO in CD for quests and loot. I mean you do it over and over and over, big deal. In DDO I like the fact that you set how hard you want it. So you did it on normal and this time you try it on elite. Well that requires a whole different playstyle because the mobs and the dungeon are a lot harder. To me that is a different dungeon.
I'm not convinced crafting belongs in DDO at all, and player housing sure as hell does not.
I'm big on crafting in other MMO's -- whether I actually do it myself or not -- but one thing about D&D was adventuring and finding or questing for magical weapons and armor. Not picking up random crap off a dungeon floor to make it myself.
But who would make Melf's Magic Arrow? The NPC named Melf, that's who. Not the player character named Melf. It's not like we get to design these uber items and they get implemented into the game and named after us. D&D, and DDO, have so many (perhaps too many) items already, there's just no need. So all we'd wind up doing is gathering random crap and crafting a Melf's Magic Arrow rather than simply buying one from the wands shop. /yawn
Originally posted by Talyn I'm not convinced crafting belongs in DDO at all, and player housing sure as hell does not. I'm big on crafting in other MMO's -- whether I actually do it myself or not -- but one thing about D&D was adventuring and finding or questing for magical weapons and armor. Not picking up random crap off a dungeon floor to make it myself. But who would make Melf's Magic Arrow? The NPC named Melf, that's who. Not the player character named Melf. It's not like we get to design these uber items and they get implemented into the game and named after us. D&D, and DDO, have so many (perhaps too many) items already, there's just no need. So all we'd wind up doing is gathering random crap and crafting a Melf's Magic Arrow rather than simply buying one from the wands shop. /yawn
I can understand your attitude about crafting, although I strongly disagree with the mentality behind your reasoning, which is the root of what crafting should not be. Crafting shouldn't be about making duplicates of existing spells, items, weapons, armor, etc. It should be about creating something unique.
In my PnP D&D sessions, a huge part of the fun for me as a wizard was making new spells. I made some truly unique ones once I gained enough levels that defined my character further and added to our group lore.
It adds to the lore if there is an actual player in the game world capable of making unique, new items; that's part of creating a legend. There is nothing stopping the implementation of a robust crafting system that allows the player to create unique items, name them and sell or trade them. Once they've done that, that unique item (spell, magic item, weapon, armor, etc) becomes part of the game world, regardless of how many times it is sold from then on.
Again, that is one of the things that is flawed in DDO. Even in the absence of crafting, how many rare, one-of-a-kind artifacts are there in the game? None, to the best of my knowledge. Not one.
So besides the fact that there is no crafting and no personalization of the game for the players as far as equipment, etc., every player in the game is capable of having any item that any other player possesses. That is one thing that should have been unique about DDO.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq Adnihilo Beorn Judge's Edge Somnulus Perfect Black ---------------------- Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2 Everquest / Everquest 2 Anarchy Online Shadowbane Dark Age of Camelot Star Wars Galaxies Matrix Online World of Warcraft Guild Wars City of Heroes
Well Som, even though I would agree about unique artifacts being cool...
The outrage on the forums from 90% of the player base who can't get the single shiny that someone else gets would be overwhelming. Yep, I think it would be cool...Nope, I don't think it will ever happen in an MMO.
Hell just look at all the attention the fabled Ashbringer used to get in WoW. Had it actually existed back then as a player-acquirable item, it had the potential of being a truly unique item as well -- only one player on each server could have one. No idea if Blizz would have actually taken it that far, but the potential was there.
In LOTRO, Turbine allows the players to name certain items that received a "critical" during the crafting process and wound up being a better item than what you tried to make initially. But the item itself is not unique, only the name. It's a start down that path at least.
In fantasy fiction, most "uber gear" has lore behind it, some epic story of its use to save the world, and was created millenia ago using high magic that has since been lost, and thus cannot be replicated. I don't mind that lore aspect either. It's a lose-lose situation because if you give ONE player per server a unique item, everyone else gets pissed and complains. If you give every single player an exact copy of that "unique item of lore" there's nothing unique or special about it anymore.
In DDO we can't even reach the D&D level cap yet, much less go beyond that to craft some uber unique item.
I'm all for a game where the players eventually make the best gear, hands-down, and allowing said gear to be more unique in nature. But I just don't see DDO as being that type of game.
Originally posted by Vincenz Well Som, even though I would agree about unique artifacts being cool... The outrage on the forums from 90% of the player base who can't get the single shiny that someone else gets would be overwhelming. Yep, I think it would be cool...Nope, I don't think it will ever happen in an MMO. Don't believe me? Take one look at SWG and jedi.
Certainly, there would be disappointment from some. The best way to resolve the situation would be to ensure that there are many uniques and not just a single one and to create circumstances that allow every player the ability to attempt to gain the items.
This is where robust and dynamic quest / game design actually comes into play, where the designer gets to tell a story and create a challenge that isn't simply physical.
Scattering clues to unique items throughout the world in background mythos and making the challenges to gain these uniques a series of puzzles, physical challenges, exploration and item gathering rather than just a "go here and kill the giant one-eyed ogre of doom and loot him" would make it so that although players may complain that they don't have the item, their only real excuse for not getting it is because they didn't gather the clues or complete the trials. It is a unique, not just a standard piece of equipment.
Plus, with player crafting including the ability to create uniques, that means that there is the possibility that any player would still be able to gain an item of comparable value, just not exactly the same item.
Not only does this give players something to strive for as far as quest/exploration, it also motivates the crafters because what they create has an actual impact on the world, rather than just being another "+3 sword of hacking". It keeps the economy invigorated through the pursuit/use of materials.
Crafters would also be able to create items with specific assets, which would allow players to gain items designed to compliment their character that would not necessarily have to be completely unique.
Originally posted by Talyn In fantasy fiction, most "uber gear" has lore behind it, some epic story of its use to save the world, and was created millenia ago using high magic that has since been lost, and thus cannot be replicated. I don't mind that lore aspect either. It's a lose-lose situation because if you give ONE player per server a unique item, everyone else gets pissed and complains. If you give every single player an exact copy of that "unique item of lore" there's nothing unique or special about it anymore.
Right, Talyn, that is one aspect of "uber gear" or artifacts. That's why it is important to balance the game with a good number of varied artifacts and to ensure that crafters are capable also of creating unique items.
In DDO we can't even reach the D&D level cap yet, much less go beyond that to craft some uber unique item.I'm all for a game where the players eventually make the best gear, hands-down, and allowing said gear to be more unique in nature. But I just don't see DDO as being that type of game.
In its current form, I agree. Which is why I pointed out the gap because if any MMO-IP adaptation deserved this type of system, it was Dungeons and Dragons.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq Adnihilo Beorn Judge's Edge Somnulus Perfect Black ---------------------- Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2 Everquest / Everquest 2 Anarchy Online Shadowbane Dark Age of Camelot Star Wars Galaxies Matrix Online World of Warcraft Guild Wars City of Heroes
Well Som, you're preaching to the choir with me because I'd love to have unique items.
Sadly though, in an MMO world, the outrage over someone having something that everyone can't have outweighs the coolness factor and becomes impractical.
"I don't want to find out the top secret way to become jedi, I want my glowstick!"
OK, we'll give you a hint by giving you a holocron for christmas.
"dammit, a lot of people have enough holocrons and grinded it and are jedi...but not me...I want my glowstick"
OK, we'll change it so that all you have to do is complete a series of quests and even tell you where they are to be a jedi
"BAH, I wanted to just buy the game and get my glowstick...lots of people have them but not me"
Comments
PLEASE don't insult us "old AD&D lovers" like that.
DD0 is the worst D&D game ever and possibly the worst MMO to date and that includes AO at release.
It's not D&D and it's not a MMO.
Thank you for your opinion, it's been noted, now please go back to WoW forums.
REALITY CHECK
Nah there is plenty of people even on lower levels, its easy to find a party at any time on EU servers.
REALITY CHECK
Ok well I have been playing the game since alpha and I have had seven level 14 chars. Currently I am considered the best cleric on the gal server. But… this game sucks… it sucks from level 1 to 4 and it sucks from level 4 to 14. the only reason I am still playing is that I have friends that play. If all of my friends leave the game I have no reason at all to keep this going. Now the game does have some good points but when you look at other mmos that don’t charge as much as ddo there is nothing special about it at all. Now some people have said they like ddo kuz it doesn’t have the grind that other mmos have… well those people need to remember that after level 14 all you do is run prison of the planes over and over and over and over or you are running one of the raids. That’s it… the game has nothing other than that. Then if you look at the dev posts they don’t have any plans to change it. All of the updates that are coming are just to keep people from using current exploits in the game… that’s it… the next module was pushed back and the recent server merge pissed off so many people that server populations continue to drop. If you like the game that’s good… but soon… if things keep going the way they are going now the game will end due to no one playing.
"Now the game does have some good points but when you look at other mmos that don’t charge as much as ddo there is nothing special about it at all"
What MMO's charge less than DDO? They are all pretty much 15 bucks a month or so from what I've seen. Here's a shortlist of what's special btw:
1. Character customization. No other MMO on the market today is even close due to multiclassing and no set roles. Clerics don't have to be healbots, rangers don't have to range, etc. and all still be extremely viable characters.
2. Active Combat System. No other MMO has anything close to the combat system in DDO...period. Age of Conan may, we'll see, but right now if you watch the gameplay videos...it doesn't.
3. All instanced. I dont' have to stand around with 20 other schmucks waiting for the Vorpal Bunny can show up and one of us can kill it for the special item we all need.
4. Actual quests. Sorry, I don't consider "hey, go kill 50 wolves and bring back their hides" a quest. Even the simplest of DDO quests have an actual story and an instanced dungeon attached to it.
"well those people need to remember that after level 14 all you do is run prison of the planes over and over and over and over or you are running one of the raids"
No, that's what you choose to do. Many people I know start a new character or work on favor or do a dozen other things. Crafting is coming, there's another time sink for you, but what exactly do you think the endgame of WoW or virtually other MMO is??? Guess what...grinding raids.
"All of the updates that are coming are just to keep people from using current exploits in the game… that’s it… the next module was pushed back and the recent server merge pissed off so many people that server populations continue to drop"
This is so ridiculous I almost ignored it...but won't. The next update (that does also include anti exploit fixes) also includes 7 or 8 new monsters, a huge outdoor area the size of gianthold, 11 new quests, a new raid, etc. The release after that is said to include the same amount of new content, as well as possibly a new class or race. They've had 2 updates pushed back by QA in almost 2 years of montly releases...hardly a catastrophe, and the server merge has made many people very happy and I've seen our guild grow by about 20% from new players...not server merge players...new ones.
"if things keep going the way they are going now the game will end due to no one playing."
OH NOES! Yeah, been hearing this since launch. NWN 2 will kill DDO. Vanguard will kill DDO. The new enhancements will kill DDO. PVP will kill DDO. Not having PVP will kill DDO. LOTRO will kill DDO. The server merge will kill DDO. blah...blah...blah.
Sorry man, but if you actually are still playing and paying for a game after 2 years that you think sucks, your entire credibility falls into question for simple intelligence.
i probably would have played this game past teh trial if it was based in forgotten realms and had a regular lvl system but noo it had to be different and take away what i love about D&D
genius inside insanity
No offense man, but Forgotten Realms has been done to death. My first impression of Eberron was probably similar, wasn't into flying machines and robots...but then I read about it a bit and learned some of the mythos of it, and it's frankly a very cool setting with a huge opportunity for growth.
So how much does turbine pay for gorilla marketing these days? You know… you shouldn’t use turbine marketing buzz words or direct quotes from the DDO forums in posts if you want to stay creditable. Also in some of your posts you talk about game updates that have not been announced yet… by the way you can thank brian from your design team for selling you out. So why am I still playing the game… just like most people waiting for Age Of Conan to come out. The one aspect of DDO that I have to give credit to turbine for is that it let people make some better friendships in the game. DDO has the feel of a bunch of friends getting around a table and gamming all night way more than a lot of other mmos out their.
1. There's no such thing as "gorilla marketing" unless you're either using primates to advertise or advertising to them. It's guerilla marketing.
2. What updates haven't been announced? I can tell you which ones have...and give you the link to the producer's post about it if you like. Half elves, Half orcs, Monks, Druids, Crafting, Guild Housing.
Oh yes, I know...Age of Conan is now the "DDO Killer"...well thankfully the release has been delayed 6 months LOL!
Good luck with that (read "enjoy Vanguard part 2")
Wrong quote
PLEASE don't insult us "old AD&D lovers" like that.
DD0 is the worst D&D game ever and possibly the worst MMO to date and that includes AO at release.
It's not D&D and it's not a MMO.
How right you are! I lump it in with the Dungeons and Dragons movie... stuff that had the name, but the people behind it had no clue about the IP.
sothorn you are totaly right... its not D&D its an MMO and for all the pissing and moaning i do about this game not being real D&D it still holds my interest some fo the time. i think the thing that really upsets me the most is that turbine really doesnt seem to care about the game as much as some of us did in the begining. its like they put it out there then forgot abotu it. now i know the turbine marketing guy is going to come back and say but they released updates every three months or so since day one... and yea they did... but just about all of them had been very lame updates. nothing compaired to what was avalable day one. like look at storm cleave, that is about one of the best DDO dungeons out. it has everything you would see in a pen and paper module. but since the release of DDO not one dungeon has come close to it. but like you said its an MMO... i need to get over it... and let the marketing guy keep trying to get new players to come to the game...
1. AD&D was released in the 70's...it hasn't been an updated D&D ruleset in 30 years. You want to play it, great...but no one is going to make games based on it.
2. Sorry, but I immediately pull credibility from someone criticizing DDO if they're currently playing WoW.
As for the goth guy...they released MONTHLY updates, not quarterly updates since release. Are you sure you actually play this game? As far as the "next stormcleave"...no thanks. Crucible, Relic, the Stormreaver 6 man, Wiz King, Invaders, and on and on have all been a helluva lot better quests than Stormcleave. If you want another stormcleave, go run around the adventure areas and kill all the unique spawns and go for slayer and explorer, it's about the same.
Sorry, but the majority of your arguments aren't just lame...they're utterly false. "DDO is more expensive than most MMO's"=false. "DDO has an update every three months"=false. I mean, at least try to stay factual in slamming the game you've dumped your money into every month for two years (supposedly) and still do.
EDIT: btw, there's been 2 delayed updates, both by about a month...which even for those two would be every two months, preceeded by every month for 16 months.
Dude give it up you are such a dumbass its not even funny… vincenz go back to some other kind of marketing… really… your quoting from the damn ddo forums again. DDO is more expensive than most MMOs yes if you take into account how much content DDO has vrs other MMOs even after a year on the market DDO does not have as much content as LOTR the other turbine game, how is that marketing guy? Do I slam DDO? hell yes I do mostly because if you try and slam them on crap that they pull on the DDO forums they will delete your post… hmm… sound like the Nazis… yea a bit… people need to get both sides of the coin, the good and the bad and that is what forums are for. I have my views and you marketing guys have yours. But the reality is that everyone needs to make up their own damn mind about the game. I encourage everyone to run a 10 day on just about every game even wow. To find what game you like to play… and yes I play the game and have since release… why… because I have friends that play. Now I know you marketing guys not have friends… you know… kuz your all buttheads… but some of us do and I like to hang out with my friends and game with them… and if they like to play DDO than that is where I am stuck gaming myself. Now when they leave I will leave and have no problems with that but don’t come on here and say that I am wrong kuz of what I think that just makes you look like an ass yourself. Now you have your opinion and that is good… but by trying to say that others can have one too just makes you look like the butthole that you are. So if I write a post about things that are bad in the game you go and write one about the good points. Shhhh don’t tell anyone but that’s how these things work…
No offense, but you'd have to have a pretty short memory to completely forget about Turbine's very first MMO, Asheron's Call (which, coincidentally, is still in the market).
There is simply no MMO on the market today which approaches anything like the freedom of the character builds in Asheron's Call. None. Certainly not DDO.
Which for many customers simply wasn't a plus. D&D revolves around character development in a way which allowed the player to quantify the effects of their choices, i.e., if you chose weapon specializations, etc., you knew the immediate impact that choice would have. The combat system in DDO makes many of those choices pretty opaque. That skill you worked for may or may not have an effect, depending on whether you actually hit your target in a clicking frenzy.
Sorry, but for my part, I'm playing a character based on a set of rules that does not rely on my ability to chase something around. The active combat system is a negative in my book. It further reduces my choices based on my ability to physically target and hit something, rather than on the abilities I've chosen for my character, and then it adds in a random hit/miss ratio. Ugh.
This would be a huge plus IF the DDO world did not completely revolve around one large city supported by instances only. Random encounters were always a huge part of PnP D&D, especially when traveling from one point to another. In addition, the manner in which DDO has their world set up leaves practically no feeling of discovery. You simply get a task, move to the instance location and do the instance. The next time you go in, it's exactly the same.
If the instances had been dynamic (changing from entry to entry) that would at least have been a plus. As a thief player on this forum posted, when you go in, your party members pretty much point out exactly where the traps are, etc. For my part, knowing what was going to happen simply wasn't fun.
Crafting should have been in the game from the get go. As I've pointed out before, where in the heck did "Melf's Acid Arrow" come from? A wizard named Melf, that's where! So how exactly is it that every new adventurer has no idea how to create new items? Did all of the races simply forget how to craft?
Of course they didn't.
For those who seem to think that crafting isn't that important, think about it for a minute; if there were no crafting in fantasy fiction or gaming, we wouldn't have Sting, Mournblade, Stormbringer, Glamdring, the One Ring, Melf's Acid Arrow (or any other spell named after its creator), etc.
The problem with crafting is when it is approached as a time sink rather than as a unique, interesting and vital part of the game. The other major issue is the fact that no crafting system that I have seen allows you to create a truly unique, one-of-a-kind item.
If any game ever begged for a system of this type, it would be DDO. There simply cannot be two Stormbringers, etc. Part of the system should include the ability to make completely unique items.
As far as raiding, it's unfortunate that many studios seem to think players want only large raids as end-game content. There is plenty of room for robust, small-scale content at the higher levels that doesn't require hordes of players to accomplish. For that matter, there is plenty of room throughout any MMO for scalable content that is tailored to present a challenge based on the actual group size. This is one thing that CoX did very well.
I agree that DDO has succeeded in staying afloat, but I would hardly call it a success in any way. Not only do I personally consider it a less-than-successful adaptation of PnP D&D, I consider it mediocre in simple game design.
It more closely approximates a single player PC game with multi-player elements than a true multi-player. While I understand Turbine's stated motivation for this design decision, to give DDO that feeling of a small party on an adventure, the content simply isn't dynamic enough. Like Guild Wars, once played through there are no real surprises until a new patch comes out.
Unlike Guild Wars, you are paying continuously for content you haven't yet received, which is what has prompted many to wonder why DDO hasn't simply changed to a free to play system with paid expansions, or at least a significantly reduced subscription with paid expansions.
Again, it isn't the case that DDO is a bad game. Far from it. It simply isn't a great game and it failed to meet the expectations of a huge portion of its target audience, the vast majority of which are still sitting at a table somewhere spinning tales of adventure and rolling dice on their kitchen table rather than playing DDO.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Well I played the game and maxed out in two weeks. Than it got boring but the game set up was very good. I loved how they did rogues in the game. Not a DPS class!!! But this game needed more and still needs alot more to ever get me to go back.
"DDO is more expensive than most MMOs yes if you take into account how much content DDO has vrs other MMOs even after a year on the market DDO does not have as much content as LOTR the other turbine game"
AHHH...so now it's not more expensive, it's more expensive based on content? Please, at least pick a story and stick with it. Regardless, after the dozen updates or more, I'd say DDO content is right on track with most MMO's that are at the 2 year or less mark, if not further. LOTRO content holds zero interest for me, as most of it is "go kill 20 bears and bring their hides back".
"hell yes I do mostly because if you try and slam them on crap that they pull on the DDO forums they will delete your post"
Um, no they don't. The official forums are full of complaints just like every MMO. They do pull your posts if you call people idiots and nazis and buttheads, as you've done here though. Try speaking like a grownup and you'll get a lot further, regardless if you're still in your teens.
I have no problem with you posting negative aspects of the game from your experience Goth, just lies I have a problem with (like more expensive and 3 months per update).
For Somnulus, I've had a very different experience than you on several fronts. The active combat, I think is sensational myself...not so twitch based that it's an FPS, but a helluva lot more than target bad guy...hit special attack key...wait.
Although I agree that more randomizing in the quests would be a plus, and hope they continue to strive for this, I also think every game on the planet has the "replay" factor where you know what to do...not just DDO. I'd still prefer an immersing, instanced quest to the dominant variety of "quests" in most of the other MMO's on the market today though, even if I know the quest well.
Crafting? Eh...not that interesting to me, but I do hope it's done well. Unfortunately, the games that seem to have nailed crafting didn't find enough of an audience to maintain it and it was dumbed down almost every time.
Regardless, many of the things you talk about: Repetition, content, end game, etc....are complained about in literally every MMO on the market today. I've played many of them and wouldn't dream of resubscribing to any of them because none of them presented what I get in DDO.
EDIT Btw, for the last poster..."maxing out" has absolutely nothing to do with actually experiencing the game. Powerlevelling and rushing to cap you'll hate most games.
Vincenz maybe you don’t pay attention… or you could be blind… but DDO is on module 4 right now… that’s is lets count together… one… two… three… four updates in a year and a half. Now they have put out a smaller updates to try and keep people interested but not all of them have had additional content. We had some small content updates but not what people are looking for. People where expecting UPDATES not content revisions (like the new enhancement system). When turbine said we will be putting out updates every month huge additions to content is what was expected… but never delivered. As for the cost dude look around they are charging a premium rate for ddo. The same rate as the major games like you mentioned in your other post. DDO is not comparable to those. No one wants to pay a lease on a pinto at a cadillac rate. As for deleting posts I have had 5 deleted and talking to other people I play with they have had posts deleted as well. One of them was for calling a moderator crazy for thinking that our party didn’t get screwed in a dungeon when we got to the end but the last guy didn’t spawn and after the GM respawned him we couldn’t talk to him there for couldn’t finish the dungeon. The GM told us that… get this… he couldn’t give us the XP for the dungeon because we didn’t complete it so we would have to restart it. But we where already sitting at the end of the dungeon… so vincenz how many mmorpg.com accounts do you have?
Um...yeah. First of all, many of the releases that aren't "mods" have been quite meaty (take BAM, Invaders, Spawn of Whisperdoom, etc.) and more than ANY other MMO has released for free. Those releases are just that...new content.
http://www.ddo.com/article/581
There's the release notes for one of those "no content" releases.
Sorry, btw, I don't buy your story about post deletions in the slightest. You've shown ridiculous manners here, so I'm sure they were just as apparent there. Childish insults and namecalling gets posts deleted, not negative thoughts on DDO.
And yes, DDO is listed with all those other games...for the same reason 90% of the critiques here are comparing them to those other games.
If you like, we can start comparing DDO to Sims Online though, and I can then agree that it costs more...however it will also then be the best...game...ever.
Sorry guy, your comments are based in falsehoods from start to finish and you clearly have an axe to grind...my guess is, it's for acting like a 10 year old on the main forums and being banned for it.
Ah always someone that has to come along and feels it is their duty to rake the coals over a game they don't like or did them wrong. Rather than just moving on they gotta flame anyone who enjoys the game.
I'm sorry your time in DDO wasn't fun. I however enjoy DDO very much. As a casual gamer due to school I enjoy the fact I can log in find a group real fast and do a few dungeons. It doesn't bother me one bit it is instanced and I like it because of no campers.
I think the content and updates are sufficient. You talk about doing the same dungeons over and over again. I did the exact same in COH working on badges, did it in EQ2 when lock out timers were up, LOTRO in CD for quests and loot. I mean you do it over and over and over, big deal. In DDO I like the fact that you set how hard you want it. So you did it on normal and this time you try it on elite. Well that requires a whole different playstyle because the mobs and the dungeon are a lot harder. To me that is a different dungeon.
Hope you find a game you enjoy.
.. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
I'm not convinced crafting belongs in DDO at all, and player housing sure as hell does not.
I'm big on crafting in other MMO's -- whether I actually do it myself or not -- but one thing about D&D was adventuring and finding or questing for magical weapons and armor. Not picking up random crap off a dungeon floor to make it myself.
But who would make Melf's Magic Arrow? The NPC named Melf, that's who. Not the player character named Melf. It's not like we get to design these uber items and they get implemented into the game and named after us. D&D, and DDO, have so many (perhaps too many) items already, there's just no need. So all we'd wind up doing is gathering random crap and crafting a Melf's Magic Arrow rather than simply buying one from the wands shop. /yawn
I can understand your attitude about crafting, although I strongly disagree with the mentality behind your reasoning, which is the root of what crafting should not be. Crafting shouldn't be about making duplicates of existing spells, items, weapons, armor, etc. It should be about creating something unique.
In my PnP D&D sessions, a huge part of the fun for me as a wizard was making new spells. I made some truly unique ones once I gained enough levels that defined my character further and added to our group lore.
It adds to the lore if there is an actual player in the game world capable of making unique, new items; that's part of creating a legend. There is nothing stopping the implementation of a robust crafting system that allows the player to create unique items, name them and sell or trade them. Once they've done that, that unique item (spell, magic item, weapon, armor, etc) becomes part of the game world, regardless of how many times it is sold from then on.
Again, that is one of the things that is flawed in DDO. Even in the absence of crafting, how many rare, one-of-a-kind artifacts are there in the game? None, to the best of my knowledge. Not one.
So besides the fact that there is no crafting and no personalization of the game for the players as far as equipment, etc., every player in the game is capable of having any item that any other player possesses. That is one thing that should have been unique about DDO.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Well Som, even though I would agree about unique artifacts being cool...
The outrage on the forums from 90% of the player base who can't get the single shiny that someone else gets would be overwhelming. Yep, I think it would be cool...Nope, I don't think it will ever happen in an MMO.
Don't believe me? Take one look at SWG and jedi.
Hell just look at all the attention the fabled Ashbringer used to get in WoW. Had it actually existed back then as a player-acquirable item, it had the potential of being a truly unique item as well -- only one player on each server could have one. No idea if Blizz would have actually taken it that far, but the potential was there.
In LOTRO, Turbine allows the players to name certain items that received a "critical" during the crafting process and wound up being a better item than what you tried to make initially. But the item itself is not unique, only the name. It's a start down that path at least.
In fantasy fiction, most "uber gear" has lore behind it, some epic story of its use to save the world, and was created millenia ago using high magic that has since been lost, and thus cannot be replicated. I don't mind that lore aspect either. It's a lose-lose situation because if you give ONE player per server a unique item, everyone else gets pissed and complains. If you give every single player an exact copy of that "unique item of lore" there's nothing unique or special about it anymore.
In DDO we can't even reach the D&D level cap yet, much less go beyond that to craft some uber unique item.
I'm all for a game where the players eventually make the best gear, hands-down, and allowing said gear to be more unique in nature. But I just don't see DDO as being that type of game.
Certainly, there would be disappointment from some. The best way to resolve the situation would be to ensure that there are many uniques and not just a single one and to create circumstances that allow every player the ability to attempt to gain the items.
This is where robust and dynamic quest / game design actually comes into play, where the designer gets to tell a story and create a challenge that isn't simply physical.
Scattering clues to unique items throughout the world in background mythos and making the challenges to gain these uniques a series of puzzles, physical challenges, exploration and item gathering rather than just a "go here and kill the giant one-eyed ogre of doom and loot him" would make it so that although players may complain that they don't have the item, their only real excuse for not getting it is because they didn't gather the clues or complete the trials. It is a unique, not just a standard piece of equipment.
Plus, with player crafting including the ability to create uniques, that means that there is the possibility that any player would still be able to gain an item of comparable value, just not exactly the same item.
Not only does this give players something to strive for as far as quest/exploration, it also motivates the crafters because what they create has an actual impact on the world, rather than just being another "+3 sword of hacking". It keeps the economy invigorated through the pursuit/use of materials.
Crafters would also be able to create items with specific assets, which would allow players to gain items designed to compliment their character that would not necessarily have to be completely unique.
Right, Talyn, that is one aspect of "uber gear" or artifacts. That's why it is important to balance the game with a good number of varied artifacts and to ensure that crafters are capable also of creating unique items.
In its current form, I agree. Which is why I pointed out the gap because if any MMO-IP adaptation deserved this type of system, it was Dungeons and Dragons.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Well Som, you're preaching to the choir with me because I'd love to have unique items.
Sadly though, in an MMO world, the outrage over someone having something that everyone can't have outweighs the coolness factor and becomes impractical.
"I don't want to find out the top secret way to become jedi, I want my glowstick!"
OK, we'll give you a hint by giving you a holocron for christmas.
"dammit, a lot of people have enough holocrons and grinded it and are jedi...but not me...I want my glowstick"
OK, we'll change it so that all you have to do is complete a series of quests and even tell you where they are to be a jedi
"BAH, I wanted to just buy the game and get my glowstick...lots of people have them but not me"
OK, you can be a jedi for god's sake.