Originally posted by kinido So first off, if your gonna down EQ play it recently ... >.>
Out of the mouths of new members!
True you prolly can't do serious group content without a healer - however, clerics are not the only healing class in the game. Druids and Shamans can both heal > AND heal well enough to group in Valdeholm.
Show ME the 1 or 2 button class so I can play one! Please.
Mana regen times have been changed. 45 seconds of non-combat = full mana regen (Note: We haven't had to look at the spell book while medding since 2000)!
My main is an SK. What do you mean, underpowered? I can tank group content, off tank raid content and kite with any Necro - so what if I can't make EE stones?! /flex (Note: the exp hybrid thing was taken out of the game somewhen around the release of PoP)!
Graphics are as good as ANY game on the market! <lol> I've been dragged down this road before. I've been shown the weak graphics (Old) in the original world (old content), I've seen the new graphics and the upgraded graphics. I've also seen what DAoC, WoW, EQ2, AC, UO have to offer, I'm not seeing alot of difference.
Is EQ for everyone? No. Is EQ as casual friendly as WoW? No.
---------------------------------------- My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
You guys do know that they tried a classic server?
Progression servers were basically there way of making a Classic Server.. and the population is SOO low... that they only have one now -_-
so i dunno..
The progression sevrers were IMMENSELY populat when they were in the classic period. Now they have moved on post-PoP they are empty... what does that tell you?
Originally posted by Tithrielle The progression sevrers were IMMENSELY populat when they were in the classic period. Now they have moved on post-PoP they are empty... what does that tell you?
No, the question should be, "What does that tell SoE?".
SoE is looking for repeat business. They like your 1 month accounts, sure - money is money. But the point of a MMO (from their point of view) is subscription sales, not box sales.
They just do not (apparently) see any long term interest in a static game. According to SoE and their business model, if they don't provide the player base with new content, then you won't stay the distance!
I can play on a truely classic server, any time I wish, just by loggin and selecting where I will play today. My account is active, is yours?
---------------------------------------- My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
You know, everyone here is mentioning The Combine Progression Server, but I was on The Sleeper. Frankly, we regularly beat the raid guilds on The Combine to content and kills and there was only one real end-game guild on The Sleeper unlike the Combine that that two half-arsed ones.
The point to all this, though, is that on The Sleeper I and about 45 other people in the guild leveled to max (50) in ten days and had the first three bosses of EQ down on the evening of the 10th night.
Assuming that you didn't play as hardcore as we did, that still suggests that a casual gamer would/could level to 50 in about two months on a true "Classic" server and then there'd be nothing to do. Phinny and the rest of the original raid bosses were pushovers. Even the next few sets (Fear and Hate) were jokes to an organized raiding guild.
I had fun on the Progression server. It was awesome for raiders. What they SHOULD have done was make a raid competition ladder similar to the Legends server. Instead, we had people complaining that we were turning their "Classic" server upside down because we were raiding too fast.
One of the above posters said it best. Paraphrased: What we loved best about Classic EQ was that it was the first time we had done any of the stuff.
We can never recapture our EQ virginity. We can never do it again for the very first time. The truth is, we wouldn't really want to if we could. The Classic days of Everquest were an innocent time of exploration. Now that we've explored the frontier, we want bigger and more interesting things. Hence websites like this.
So no, I wouldn't play on a Classic server. Even if I played incredibly casually, I'd be bored in two months when there was nothing left to do.
I can play on a truely classic server, any time I wish, just by loggin and selecting where I will play today. My account is active, is yours?
No, you cannot. That is complete and total nonsense, and we both know that. You cannot log-in and "pretend" a current server is a classic server, and any suggestion of so is asinine.
Technology has liberated the consumer. Companies are successful when they provide what consumers want (surprise, surprise).
In the case of the Progression servers, they temporarily provided what consumers want. However, SOE made the concept and focus of progression servers an effort of zerg raiding to rapidly open new expansions. SOE, HEAR THEE: people joined progression servers to slowly progress and enjoy the old world. There is a wo/man or wo/men who are dedicated at SOE to ensuring that consumers do not receive what they want. Yes. They provided a progression server, but this was satisfactory for the majority for a few months at best and maybe nine months or so at best for zerg raiders (even they get burnt out in 2007!).
And that is precisely the problem right there. The vast, overwhelming majority of this market that wants a progression server or a classic server are not these "extreme" raiders. The market have jobs, participate in competitive educational programs, and many even have families to attend to. Nevertheless, they want to give *money* to SOE for a classic or semi-classic server with a modified ruleset that prevents zerg-guilds and griefers from controlling access to content; adjusts the spawn times; and perhaps even introduces an instance system to some dungeons. You could even market it as an EQ 3 for 2007 and beyond. People would play on it.
The problem is that the Progression Servers failed so badly and left both a favor and bad taste in people's mouths, I wonder how much of an impact that will have on the above described server.
Why is SOE not listening to or providing for this market? I wish I knew that answer. It makes no sense to me. As for myself, I would probably sign-up for the hell of it.
There is a wo/man or wo/men who are dedicated at SOE to ensuring that consumers do not receive what they want.
It does seem that way too often.
Unfortunetely, I think it is bigger than one person. It's the whole attitude that they (SOE management and maybe many employees) know what consumers want more then the consumers themselves do. While I do not deny that may be true when it comes to individual details, it certainly is not true when talking about the what consumer's want in the big picture.
I would like a server just after the Kunark release, including Odus. The game was at its peak and best fun then. How many folks didn't find moments of fun on Overthere's ledge? At the Fort? Kern's Tower? Or on trying to jump the boats between Kunark and the mainland (especially as an Iksar).
Plus the old world (classic sides) were still happening, crowded and fun. Mistmoore, fun with barbarians and constant gnoll trains , The Hole, Rathe Mountains, so many great zones.
I think all they need is the population to go with them.
Heck, while I am dreaming, I actually think it would be fun that once folks reach max level they can restart as level 1 (but with an increasingly better title to celebrate their past accomplishment(s)). That way you might encourage a continual climb and keep the entire server active -- not just the highest zones / uber guilds.
This is kinda a silly arguement ... simply because EQ always has... and always will be about Raiding. One expansion was for casual groups.. and that was never again repeated.. and the rewards were no where near the raiding stuff.. and took months and months of running the same crap for one decent piece. So this didn't really suprise me that their progression servers would just cater to raiders once again.
This is kinda a silly arguement ... simply because EQ always has... and always will be about Raiding.
I think mainly because the developers but not the market wanted that. Developers are obsessed with raiding, in my view. I think it is because it is a cost-efficient way to keep people grinding levels to attain a level to repeatedly raid the same mob(s) and dungeon(s). Developers lack the creativity required to provide a deeper, broader, and even more engaging experience.
The model that raid gear must be the "best" gear is also short-sighted. Raiding, faction grinds, and so forth are simplistic ways to keep people playing (paying their money) without really experiencing a world of adventure. It is more or less a job at that point and not a game, and people who have committed so many hours heretofore to their characters will not easily give them up even if the game is lacking.
It does seem that way too often. I would like a server just after the Kunark release, including Odus. The game was at its peak and best fun then. How many folks didn't find moments of fun on Overthere's ledge? At the Fort? Kern's Tower? Or on trying to jump the boats between Kunark and the mainland (especially as an Iksar).
Yes. Indeed.
Do you think it is a matter of pride for SOE because to limit expansions to, say, Luclin would by implication admit that all the expansions thereafter were failures? And, let's note, all the expansions thereafter made raiding the focus of the game.
Do you think it is a matter of pride for SOE because to limit expansions to, say, Luclin would by implication admit that all the expansions thereafter were failures? And, let's note, all the expansions thereafter made raiding the focus of the game.
I've had similar thoughts. It wouldn't be surprising that is an element.
The other is I think they fear supporting two paths. I did not play the progression servers, but I suspect that while features were added in stages it was exactly the same game that played on the remainder of the servers. They just added flags in the code to turn on/off sets of functions. This flagged code probably resides on all servers, just the state of the switches differs.
Progression servers are fairly certain to advance at some predictable rate that they weren't risking a situation where a needed balancing action or fix or enhancement to one of the 'progressed' servers would be likely in the elapsing time (or my guess is they would just make the change to the progression server regardless if it unbalanced other items knowing that it was only a period of time that would be required before folks got back to the normal server balances.)
If you were to put a server that is essentially frozen in time (and preferrably one that rolled back a lot of changes made after those releases -- not just switched features / zones off), then you are far more likely one day to need seperate development paths.
Last, but actually the most obvious element is that by setting aside a server (that will be frozen) you are removing folks from the list of expected customers that will make future expansion pack purchases. That is probably the biggest fear of all.
Originally posted by healz4u No, you cannot. That is complete and total nonsense, and we both know that. You cannot log-in and "pretend" a current server is a classic server, and any suggestion of so is asinine.
Yes. I can. While you and many others may not have the fortitude and will to limit yourselves to certain content within a game - I can.
Classic EQ: Anything Pre-Luclin (for me and in my opinion) This is easy enough to do. You can take two routes; 1) Tutorial > Your racial starting area 2) Straight to your racial starting area
Either path, puts you in the game, pre-luclin, in a newbie area with a newb toon. Refuse to use the PoK books. Refuse to use the bazaar (or choose to use the bazaar only for things pre-luclin)
Just be refusing to use the PoK books - that alone seperates you from the masses and grants you many of the issues of the "classic" game.
Refuse to use the Guild summon and port tools - now you even have to do your own CR's.
Run everwhere or ask a player to port you - another win for the classic system.
Whats the problem? I can do this - just because YOU can't is no reason to believe that others can't! I don't require some dev to build a world that locks me down to specific things, I'm capable of defining my own limits and barriers.
---------------------------------------- My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
The biggest problem for me personally with pretending to be on a classic server is the population. You can not find people to play with and truly experience the classic zones in the ways you original did. Also even if you ignore the books, or any gear that is past velious (which would be very odd to make sure you didnt get anything from newer content), others would not and you would never really feel immersed in the classic period. If you got a cool item that would be great if everyone was on a classic server.. it would probably be much less impressive and there would be that constant nagging to cheat if you need to.
A classic server wouldn't completely recapture that first time, but it would be like watching a movie of it or something... could still be fun on areal classic server.
No, you cannot. That is complete and total nonsense, and we both know that. You cannot log-in and "pretend" a current server is a classic server, and any suggestion of so is asinine.
Yes. I can.
Odenathus, I swear to GOD I do not know if you're being facetious or serious. I HONESTLY think you are pretty much joking.
It is not a bad joke, per se, but some of us would love a classic server. The concept of "go run out, buy the game, sign up, and pretend it is classic" is both outrageous and amusing.
Last, but actually the most obvious element is that by setting aside a server (that will be frozen) you are removing folks from the list of expected customers that will make future expansion pack purchases. That is probably the biggest fear of all.
Actually, I never thought of that.
EQ 1's strategy, today and yesterday, was to make money from expansion packs. However, a classic server would remove that element. The progression servers eventually went through the expansions. Interestingly, on some of my EQ 1 accounts, I still did not have the expansions past Gates of Discord (worst expansion in history). Zones such as Vex Thal and things changed the game from a group-based community oriented world to a zerg-guild effort for "uber/phat gear."
Many of us want to return, reexperience (relive) the world of EQ 1 that we cherish so much.
Originally posted by kalade The biggest problem for me personally with pretending to be on a classic server is the population. You can not find people to play with and truly experience the classic zones in the ways you original did.
Kalade, this is true. I agree, the server population would not and does not support this play style. Again, it's something you would have to enforce for yourselves and hope that others in your group would also... You can never go back. If you truely want a classic server, then you should be able to recruit friends and build one - set your game limits, rules and expectations. Stick to them, with at least THIS character! What you do with your other characters, in the dark, is your secret :-D
Someone started a classic server guild. Both Good and Evil. They recruited for appx 4 weeks prior to guild creation date. They did not get enough players to even create a guild, much less two guilds.
I just don't see a "classic" server as a viable EQ ruleset.
---------------------------------------- My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
I just don't see a "classic" server as a viable EQ ruleset.
I'm not advocating a classic server as I don't want that. But as a "viable EQ ruleset", I'm going to say it is completely viable. You see the progression servers as examples of this, you see on the forums a load of demand for the classic servers. Admittedly there is a problem when people get to the endgame and then theres a question what they do next when they have a lack of content and nothing to advance towards. This is in a way why a progression server is quite possibly better.
Originally posted by healz4u In the case of the Progression servers, they temporarily provided what consumers want. However, SOE made the concept and focus of progression servers an effort of zerg raiding to rapidly open new expansions. SOE, HEAR THEE: people joined progression servers to slowly progress and enjoy the old world. There is a wo/man or wo/men who are dedicated at SOE to ensuring that consumers do not receive what they want. Yes. They provided a progression server, but this was satisfactory for the majority for a few months at best and maybe nine months or so at best for zerg raiders (even they get burnt out in 2007!).
There are two points I'd like to make.
First, on the The Sleeper, Insidious Vision did not zerg or death-rush. I know, I was there. I won't comment on the faux-FoH on The Combine. I have real world friends who were in the original FoH - they were ashamed of what was going on over there in the name of FoH. Nuff said on that. So please, please, not all of us who really enjoy raiding and progression were mindless zergers. Some of us worked our butts off. Many IV members specifically took their yearly vacations to coincide with the release of the progression server so that we could focus on being the first to conquer the world bosses and events. Many of us were/are married, have children, and have real lives. We just play hard and LIKE to game and raid. If you can track 'em down, chat with some other original IV members. We worked at Progression, had a ton of fun, but caught so much crud from the other players for "ruining" their Classic server.
Again, I contend that SOE could make bank again if once again they opened a Legends style laddered server. Force the raiders to progress from start to finish through all the raid content and they'll be happy. Meanwhile "Classic" players who really don't want to advance to the new gear and content can ignore the raid progression and enjoy their "Classic" feel without ever being disturbed by the raiders and their nightly quests for loot and fame.
I played EQ pre-Kunark. It lasted a few days on my computer before I was bored to tears. We've come a long way since those days. On the whole, I think it's been a change for the better.
All this said, I'll never give $OE any money ever again. If someone out there has a private EQ Classic server, I might consider it. But $OE's not getting my business ever again.
Originally posted by healz4u Originally posted by Thor_Leifson First, on the The Sleeper, Insidious Vision did not zerg or death-rush.
First, yes, they did. I know. I was there.
The first person whose account I got either suspended or removed was a Druid named "browndiaperz" in Insidious Vision.
The guild was notorious for hacking, as were all the others.
Yeah, I heard complaints like that. But then, I was in the guild and participated in our raids. We didn't have to hack. Dunno what to tell you about Brown, he was still level 55 a month after release. Pretty sad if he was a hacker seeing as how the rest of us were already 60. I don't remember him, I had to go look him up on our conquest details.
Anyway, no, Zugbuk and the rest of the core raiders at the beginning didn't hack, cheat, and we all had lives. Nor did we zerg or death-rush. It's been over a year, but I think we wiped once on Gore or Ragefire, and that was it. On Lady Vox someone in ASF screwed with the first raid and pulled the zone on us. Cazic, Inny, and the rest went down like clockwork on our first tries.
And before you start in, you can check our actual numbers over on the progression chart at: http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/prog_flash.vm?sid=153. Now the faux-FoH on Combine, we had video of their Naggy death-bind rush. That was sad.
The point, though, is that hate and jealousy are just silly.
Anyway, the topic here is Classic EQ servers and why it really won't work in the long term. Focus, Daniel-san. Classic is boring. There's nothing to do after 10 days for raiders and nothing to do after 60 days for non-raiders. Classic EQ was enjoyable at the time, but we expect so so much more out of our games today.
The first person whose account I got either suspended or removed was a Druid named "browndiaperz" in Insidious Vision.
Yeah, I heard complaints like that. But then, I was in the guild and participated in our raids. We didn't have to hack. Dunno what to tell you about Brown, he was still level 55 a month after release. Pretty sad if he was a hacker seeing as how the rest of us were already 60. I don't remember him, I had to go look him up on our conquest details.
Classic is boring. There's nothing to do after 10 days for raiders and nothing to do after 60 days for non-raiders. Classic EQ was enjoyable at the time, but we expect so so much more out of our games today.
I have asked around about him, months ago after his suspension or removal. No one seems to have heard from him after he tried to kill-steal from my friends and I. The GM assured me I would never have to worry about him again. [For a while in the progression server, it was truly classic.]
Anyway, the fact you think classic would be boring proves the point many of us were making about the necessity of a modified rule set. As you did with IV on Sleeper, you will want to zerg-rush through all the content if they had a classic server. I understand how you would think it were boring because you have a completely different interest and perspective. You like to log-in or meet-up at 7:00 p.m. EST with 50 other people to zerg-rush content. I think the point many of us make about a classic server, especially with a modified rule set, is to get away from that. To restore the greatness of what was classic EQ 1: the community oriented game in a fantasy world.
Many of us have no intention to zerg-rush through anything. In fact, the vast and overwhelming majority of players on the progression servers just wanted to relive and reexperience the game from Classic to around Luclin or PoP.
Yeah, I would play again, but I agree with the folks saying that adjustments would need to be made, and a few 'non-classic' elements kept, for it to work. Most importantly, SoE would need to control the rate of expansion release. Putting this in the hands of the ubr raid guilds was stupid in the first place and was what put me off going back to try the Progressions. I guess my cynicism was justified on that.
Lets be honest, SoE have made their money more then a few times over on EQ. I am sure that if they made it F2P the extra subs and new expansion sales (when they eventually went live) to those that don't have them would give them a decent enough revenue to make it worth their while.
I think a classic or slow progression server (one expansion every 6 months up to PoP) would be a great idea and would definitely pay to play it, spite its 'outdated' gameplay elements. EverQuest up till PoP was the best gaming experience I've ever had and it would be awesome to relive that experience with as much people that played the game as before.
Relating to the F2P element, it would be an interesting idea considering the fact that SOE has explored into the F2P market with The Agency probably being their first, however, I just can't see EQ going F2P...ever.
SOE (Or the Company that runs EQ) will NEVER do this - b/c they are MORONS. However there is something cool going on that these 'moderators' will not allow me to talk about here B/c they are against what is in the TOS (which includes EMIU's)
Comments
True you prolly can't do serious group content without a healer - however, clerics are not the only healing class in the game. Druids and Shamans can both heal > AND heal well enough to group in Valdeholm.
Show ME the 1 or 2 button class so I can play one! Please.
Mana regen times have been changed. 45 seconds of non-combat = full mana regen (Note: We haven't had to look at the spell book while medding since 2000)!
My main is an SK. What do you mean, underpowered? I can tank group content, off tank raid content and kite with any Necro - so what if I can't make EE stones?! /flex (Note: the exp hybrid thing was taken out of the game somewhen around the release of PoP)!
Graphics are as good as ANY game on the market! <lol> I've been dragged down this road before. I've been shown the weak graphics (Old) in the original world (old content), I've seen the new graphics and the upgraded graphics. I've also seen what DAoC, WoW, EQ2, AC, UO have to offer, I'm not seeing alot of difference.
Is EQ for everyone? No.
Is EQ as casual friendly as WoW? No.
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My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
You guys do know that they tried a classic server?
Progression servers were basically there way of making a Classic Server..
and the population is SOO low... that they only have one now -_-
so i dunno..
PS - All mammals have nipples.
Get over it already.
The progression sevrers were IMMENSELY populat when they were in the classic period. Now they have moved on post-PoP they are empty... what does that tell you?
SoE is looking for repeat business. They like your 1 month accounts, sure - money is money. But the point of a MMO (from their point of view) is subscription sales, not box sales.
They just do not (apparently) see any long term interest in a static game. According to SoE and their business model, if they don't provide the player base with new content, then you won't stay the distance!
I can play on a truely classic server, any time I wish, just by loggin and selecting where I will play today. My account is active, is yours?
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My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
You know, everyone here is mentioning The Combine Progression Server, but I was on The Sleeper. Frankly, we regularly beat the raid guilds on The Combine to content and kills and there was only one real end-game guild on The Sleeper unlike the Combine that that two half-arsed ones.
The point to all this, though, is that on The Sleeper I and about 45 other people in the guild leveled to max (50) in ten days and had the first three bosses of EQ down on the evening of the 10th night.
Assuming that you didn't play as hardcore as we did, that still suggests that a casual gamer would/could level to 50 in about two months on a true "Classic" server and then there'd be nothing to do. Phinny and the rest of the original raid bosses were pushovers. Even the next few sets (Fear and Hate) were jokes to an organized raiding guild.
I had fun on the Progression server. It was awesome for raiders. What they SHOULD have done was make a raid competition ladder similar to the Legends server. Instead, we had people complaining that we were turning their "Classic" server upside down because we were raiding too fast.
One of the above posters said it best. Paraphrased: What we loved best about Classic EQ was that it was the first time we had done any of the stuff.
We can never recapture our EQ virginity. We can never do it again for the very first time. The truth is, we wouldn't really want to if we could. The Classic days of Everquest were an innocent time of exploration. Now that we've explored the frontier, we want bigger and more interesting things. Hence websites like this.
So no, I wouldn't play on a Classic server. Even if I played incredibly casually, I'd be bored in two months when there was nothing left to do.
No, you cannot. That is complete and total nonsense, and we both know that. You cannot log-in and "pretend" a current server is a classic server, and any suggestion of so is asinine.
Technology has liberated the consumer. Companies are successful when they provide what consumers want (surprise, surprise).
In the case of the Progression servers, they temporarily provided what consumers want. However, SOE made the concept and focus of progression servers an effort of zerg raiding to rapidly open new expansions. SOE, HEAR THEE: people joined progression servers to slowly progress and enjoy the old world. There is a wo/man or wo/men who are dedicated at SOE to ensuring that consumers do not receive what they want. Yes. They provided a progression server, but this was satisfactory for the majority for a few months at best and maybe nine months or so at best for zerg raiders (even they get burnt out in 2007!).
And that is precisely the problem right there. The vast, overwhelming majority of this market that wants a progression server or a classic server are not these "extreme" raiders. The market have jobs, participate in competitive educational programs, and many even have families to attend to. Nevertheless, they want to give *money* to SOE for a classic or semi-classic server with a modified ruleset that prevents zerg-guilds and griefers from controlling access to content; adjusts the spawn times; and perhaps even introduces an instance system to some dungeons. You could even market it as an EQ 3 for 2007 and beyond. People would play on it.
The problem is that the Progression Servers failed so badly and left both a favor and bad taste in people's mouths, I wonder how much of an impact that will have on the above described server.
Why is SOE not listening to or providing for this market? I wish I knew that answer. It makes no sense to me. As for myself, I would probably sign-up for the hell of it.
Unfortunetely, I think it is bigger than one person. It's the whole attitude that they (SOE management and maybe many employees) know what consumers want more then the consumers themselves do. While I do not deny that may be true when it comes to individual details, it certainly is not true when talking about the what consumer's want in the big picture.
I would like a server just after the Kunark release, including Odus. The game was at its peak and best fun then. How many folks didn't find moments of fun on Overthere's ledge? At the Fort? Kern's Tower? Or on trying to jump the boats between Kunark and the mainland (especially as an Iksar).
Plus the old world (classic sides) were still happening, crowded and fun. Mistmoore, fun with barbarians and constant gnoll trains , The Hole, Rathe Mountains, so many great zones.
I think all they need is the population to go with them.
Heck, while I am dreaming, I actually think it would be fun that once folks reach max level they can restart as level 1 (but with an increasingly better title to celebrate their past accomplishment(s)). That way you might encourage a continual climb and keep the entire server active -- not just the highest zones / uber guilds.
This is kinda a silly arguement ... simply because EQ always has... and always will be about Raiding. One expansion was for casual groups.. and that was never again repeated.. and the rewards were no where near the raiding stuff.. and took months and months of running the same crap for one decent piece. So this didn't really suprise me that their progression servers would just cater to raiders once again.
I think mainly because the developers but not the market wanted that. Developers are obsessed with raiding, in my view. I think it is because it is a cost-efficient way to keep people grinding levels to attain a level to repeatedly raid the same mob(s) and dungeon(s). Developers lack the creativity required to provide a deeper, broader, and even more engaging experience.
The model that raid gear must be the "best" gear is also short-sighted. Raiding, faction grinds, and so forth are simplistic ways to keep people playing (paying their money) without really experiencing a world of adventure. It is more or less a job at that point and not a game, and people who have committed so many hours heretofore to their characters will not easily give them up even if the game is lacking.
Yes. Indeed.
Do you think it is a matter of pride for SOE because to limit expansions to, say, Luclin would by implication admit that all the expansions thereafter were failures? And, let's note, all the expansions thereafter made raiding the focus of the game.
The other is I think they fear supporting two paths. I did not play the progression servers, but I suspect that while features were added in stages it was exactly the same game that played on the remainder of the servers. They just added flags in the code to turn on/off sets of functions. This flagged code probably resides on all servers, just the state of the switches differs.
Progression servers are fairly certain to advance at some predictable rate that they weren't risking a situation where a needed balancing action or fix or enhancement to one of the 'progressed' servers would be likely in the elapsing time (or my guess is they would just make the change to the progression server regardless if it unbalanced other items knowing that it was only a period of time that would be required before folks got back to the normal server balances.)
If you were to put a server that is essentially frozen in time (and preferrably one that rolled back a lot of changes made after those releases -- not just switched features / zones off), then you are far more likely one day to need seperate development paths.
Last, but actually the most obvious element is that by setting aside a server (that will be frozen) you are removing folks from the list of expected customers that will make future expansion pack purchases. That is probably the biggest fear of all.
Classic EQ: Anything Pre-Luclin (for me and in my opinion)
This is easy enough to do. You can take two routes;
1) Tutorial > Your racial starting area
2) Straight to your racial starting area
Either path, puts you in the game, pre-luclin, in a newbie area with a newb toon.
Refuse to use the PoK books.
Refuse to use the bazaar (or choose to use the bazaar only for things pre-luclin)
Just be refusing to use the PoK books - that alone seperates you from the masses and grants you many of the issues of the "classic" game.
Refuse to use the Guild summon and port tools - now you even have to do your own CR's.
Run everwhere or ask a player to port you - another win for the classic system.
Whats the problem? I can do this - just because YOU can't is no reason to believe that others can't! I don't require some dev to build a world that locks me down to specific things, I'm capable of defining my own limits and barriers.
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My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
Odenathus-
The biggest problem for me personally with pretending to be on a classic server is the population. You can not find people to play with and truly experience the classic zones in the ways you original did. Also even if you ignore the books, or any gear that is past velious (which would be very odd to make sure you didnt get anything from newer content), others would not and you would never really feel immersed in the classic period. If you got a cool item that would be great if everyone was on a classic server.. it would probably be much less impressive and there would be that constant nagging to cheat if you need to.
A classic server wouldn't completely recapture that first time, but it would be like watching a movie of it or something... could still be fun on areal classic server.
Odenathus, I swear to GOD I do not know if you're being facetious or serious. I HONESTLY think you are pretty much joking.
It is not a bad joke, per se, but some of us would love a classic server. The concept of "go run out, buy the game, sign up, and pretend it is classic" is both outrageous and amusing.
Actually, I never thought of that.
EQ 1's strategy, today and yesterday, was to make money from expansion packs. However, a classic server would remove that element. The progression servers eventually went through the expansions. Interestingly, on some of my EQ 1 accounts, I still did not have the expansions past Gates of Discord (worst expansion in history). Zones such as Vex Thal and things changed the game from a group-based community oriented world to a zerg-guild effort for "uber/phat gear."
Many of us want to return, reexperience (relive) the world of EQ 1 that we cherish so much.
Someone started a classic server guild. Both Good and Evil. They recruited for appx 4 weeks prior to guild creation date. They did not get enough players to even create a guild, much less two guilds.
I just don't see a "classic" server as a viable EQ ruleset.
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My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
There are two points I'd like to make.
First, on the The Sleeper, Insidious Vision did not zerg or death-rush. I know, I was there. I won't comment on the faux-FoH on The Combine. I have real world friends who were in the original FoH - they were ashamed of what was going on over there in the name of FoH. Nuff said on that. So please, please, not all of us who really enjoy raiding and progression were mindless zergers. Some of us worked our butts off. Many IV members specifically took their yearly vacations to coincide with the release of the progression server so that we could focus on being the first to conquer the world bosses and events. Many of us were/are married, have children, and have real lives. We just play hard and LIKE to game and raid. If you can track 'em down, chat with some other original IV members. We worked at Progression, had a ton of fun, but caught so much crud from the other players for "ruining" their Classic server.
Again, I contend that SOE could make bank again if once again they opened a Legends style laddered server. Force the raiders to progress from start to finish through all the raid content and they'll be happy. Meanwhile "Classic" players who really don't want to advance to the new gear and content can ignore the raid progression and enjoy their "Classic" feel without ever being disturbed by the raiders and their nightly quests for loot and fame.
I played EQ pre-Kunark. It lasted a few days on my computer before I was bored to tears. We've come a long way since those days. On the whole, I think it's been a change for the better.
All this said, I'll never give $OE any money ever again. If someone out there has a private EQ Classic server, I might consider it. But $OE's not getting my business ever again.
First, yes, they did. I know. I was there.
The first person whose account I got either suspended or removed was a Druid named "browndiaperz" in Insidious Vision.
The guild was notorious for hacking, as were all the others.
The first person whose account I got either suspended or removed was a Druid named "browndiaperz" in Insidious Vision.
The guild was notorious for hacking, as were all the others.
Yeah, I heard complaints like that. But then, I was in the guild and participated in our raids. We didn't have to hack. Dunno what to tell you about Brown, he was still level 55 a month after release. Pretty sad if he was a hacker seeing as how the rest of us were already 60. I don't remember him, I had to go look him up on our conquest details.
Anyway, no, Zugbuk and the rest of the core raiders at the beginning didn't hack, cheat, and we all had lives. Nor did we zerg or death-rush. It's been over a year, but I think we wiped once on Gore or Ragefire, and that was it. On Lady Vox someone in ASF screwed with the first raid and pulled the zone on us. Cazic, Inny, and the rest went down like clockwork on our first tries.
And before you start in, you can check our actual numbers over on the progression chart at: http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/prog_flash.vm?sid=153. Now the faux-FoH on Combine, we had video of their Naggy death-bind rush. That was sad.
The point, though, is that hate and jealousy are just silly.
Anyway, the topic here is Classic EQ servers and why it really won't work in the long term. Focus, Daniel-san. Classic is boring. There's nothing to do after 10 days for raiders and nothing to do after 60 days for non-raiders. Classic EQ was enjoyable at the time, but we expect so so much more out of our games today.
Yeah, I heard complaints like that. But then, I was in the guild and participated in our raids. We didn't have to hack. Dunno what to tell you about Brown, he was still level 55 a month after release. Pretty sad if he was a hacker seeing as how the rest of us were already 60. I don't remember him, I had to go look him up on our conquest details.
Classic is boring. There's nothing to do after 10 days for raiders and nothing to do after 60 days for non-raiders. Classic EQ was enjoyable at the time, but we expect so so much more out of our games today.
I have asked around about him, months ago after his suspension or removal. No one seems to have heard from him after he tried to kill-steal from my friends and I. The GM assured me I would never have to worry about him again. [For a while in the progression server, it was truly classic.]
Anyway, the fact you think classic would be boring proves the point many of us were making about the necessity of a modified rule set. As you did with IV on Sleeper, you will want to zerg-rush through all the content if they had a classic server. I understand how you would think it were boring because you have a completely different interest and perspective. You like to log-in or meet-up at 7:00 p.m. EST with 50 other people to zerg-rush content. I think the point many of us make about a classic server, especially with a modified rule set, is to get away from that. To restore the greatness of what was classic EQ 1: the community oriented game in a fantasy world.
Many of us have no intention to zerg-rush through anything. In fact, the vast and overwhelming majority of players on the progression servers just wanted to relive and reexperience the game from Classic to around Luclin or PoP.
Yeah, I would play again, but I agree with the folks saying that adjustments would need to be made, and a few 'non-classic' elements kept, for it to work. Most importantly, SoE would need to control the rate of expansion release. Putting this in the hands of the ubr raid guilds was stupid in the first place and was what put me off going back to try the Progressions. I guess my cynicism was justified on that.
Lets be honest, SoE have made their money more then a few times over on EQ. I am sure that if they made it F2P the extra subs and new expansion sales (when they eventually went live) to those that don't have them would give them a decent enough revenue to make it worth their while.
I think a classic or slow progression server (one expansion every 6 months up to PoP) would be a great idea and would definitely pay to play it, spite its 'outdated' gameplay elements. EverQuest up till PoP was the best gaming experience I've ever had and it would be awesome to relive that experience with as much people that played the game as before.
Relating to the F2P element, it would be an interesting idea considering the fact that SOE has explored into the F2P market with The Agency probably being their first, however, I just can't see EQ going F2P...ever.
SOE (Or the Company that runs EQ) will NEVER do this - b/c they are MORONS. However there is something cool going on that these 'moderators' will not allow me to talk about here B/c they are against what is in the TOS (which includes EMIU's)