Meh, yeah I played Horde on my time in WoW and Horde was alot more mature than Alliance overall, and we usually were alittle better xoordinated in PvP. But did it really change my expierience in WoW all that much? Ehhh....I dont think so. I didnt really notice a change, if any. I dont think this is a real problem especially for Mythic since theyve been dealing with faction imbalances in DAOC. However form what Ive been seeing the evil races in WAR seem to be much more popular than the good, so we may see a switch in WAR. We'll have to wait and see, really.
Ppl keep saying "good versus evil". This game is Chaos vs. Order. Your Chosen Of Chaos is running around dismembering ppl, but at the same time your Witchhunter is locking ppl into the cowfeeders, and burning heritics at the stake.
Im thinking that the cute/sexy thng may not be as much of an issue in WAR as in WoW, i think a more serious issue will be the exclusion of female toons from some class choices. This will cause girl gamers (they do exsist, ive seen them!) to side more with Order which could skew the population balance.
I think it will be hard to predict, because in WoW you chose race and then class, race is the most important factor there, however in Warhammer online you can´t, for example have a Orc Witchhunter. Meaning the class choise will matter much more.
If you are looking at just Chaos it is a no brainer to say that Chosen will be much more popular than Marauder, in the table top game chosen is far more powerful unit, and even if isn´t true in the online version, this will be hard thing let go.
If Order turns out to be much more popular, not unlikely since High Elfs and Empire is the most played races in table top version, further expansion could help out a lot. Expanding Chaos with Khorne for example, or introduce Skaven. Both very popular choises.
I hope they don´t introduce Wood Elfs though.... the game will not survive that many Legolases
What will be a nightmare with this kind of pvp game though is how to balance it, if it draws a huge crowd of ex-WoWsers there will be no end of nerf-overpowered etc, posts in forums. Could be nice to have forums that you actually enjoy to read instead of being the arena of crybabies like WoW forums is today.
Since both sides have pretty races, im going to have to go with destruction, people would rather play evil pretty than good pretty, i think the balance wont be like it was first in WoW w hich was like 4 alliance to 1 horde, but more like 4 destruction to 3 order, i think then the side diffrence will change when the most overpowered classes are found out
Neither side is suppose to be good or evil. It's just about fighting.
Yeah killing folks and chopping up their bodies to throw into a portal is good.
Sorry, I don't buy into the whole "not good or evil". Chaos is obviously the bad guys and very evil.
Yes so the Empire who burn down and kill the entire population of a village just to weed out one single hint of corruption makes them instantly "good".
Neither side is suppose to be good or evil. It's just about fighting.
Yeah killing folks and chopping up their bodies to throw into a portal is good.
Sorry, I don't buy into the whole "not good or evil". Chaos is obviously the bad guys and very evil.
Yes so the Empire who burn down and kill the entire population of a village just to weed out one single hint of corruption makes them instantly "good".
Thats the whole thing about Warhammer, none of the races are good. They are all bad but like most people see themselves as good.
Here is the thing, In WoW also the Horde are not supposed to be 'bad' the Orcs are neutral on the verge of being good, the Tauren are goodie goodie tree huggers in general. the trolls don't really care and do whatever it takes to survive. The two 'evil races" are not even all that evil, they are either completly misunderstood and twisted, or addicts who will do anything to get a fix or cure their addiction.
And the alliance are in general a bunch of racist who think their way and their religion is the right way.
Sound familiar?
The problem is that when you have casual players, particularily those who don't know the franchise, they gravitate to the side that looks and sounds like the 'good guys'
In WAR that side is Order; Yes they are racist bastards who crave to punish all those who don't comform to their standards. But they follow the pattern of 'good guys' in that they have knights and priest ect. ect. and the fact that they follow "order"
While we here know that there is no good side in the Warhammer Universe, it is easier to see the lesser of two evils, and gravitate towards that. Im sorry but Chaos has tenticals, believes in sacrificing, enslaves, and kills for the sake of killing. And they dont't do this for some high ideal or philosoply, they do it just because, or because its fun.
So yes i believe people will gravitate to the ORDER side, mostly because its the lesser of two evils. You can say there is no good side in WAR but to those who come in new to the lore, ORDER seems a heck of a lot more herioc than CHAOS
Fion is correct. RvR games, and faction vs faction pvp based games will always have army imbalances.
You do not have to look at it this way though, you could look at is as playing on the more mature or skilled side. Or, you can look at it as you are the underdog who has more targets to aim at than the other faction. Simple solution.
Is good doomed to have well-meaning hero aspirants by the dozen who lack skill be crushed by evil, who seems to draw more mature, more skilled, yet fewer players? What is the reason for this, anyway? Why do people who tend to play on the side of evil also tend to be better?
children and 'people who get offended at the possibility of anyone anywhere in the world possibly passing gas ever' are the answers to your questions.
the kids are too busy making nakie elves dance and being kids in general. the offended are too busy looking for things to report to be any good to their team. the handful that are left are just sorta out of luck.
more mature types don't have to have a purrrty toon in order to play it. a pretty girl willing to play an ugly overweight monster toon is gong to be one hardcore pvper that'll beat the muffins out of 9/10s of her opponents.
true story.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Play whatever race/class you want, whatever seems most interesting to you, and actively seek out players of like minded maturity, skill, and involvement. Afterall, the true make/break point of a game is very personal, we all have different tastes and like/dislikes. The reason younger gamers like to play on the "winning" side, the side with far more people (Alliance for WoW) is a very deep seeded psychological issue... part of the failing social structure that has turned many of the generation into the kind of players we all complain about on forums... They've been raised with Gold stars and being 'special' and 'unique' and just can't stand the idea of losing, of not being special and the best... they never got a good whoop'n as kids, they started playing video games during the noob-friendly movement as I like to call it, with save points every 3 feet and infinite lives and 30 progressively easier difficulty settings... It's sad really... The MMORPG.com staff writer said it best though, the more "old school" gamers who played the 'evil' races in DaoC and WoW etc will mostly roll Destruction while the WoW transfers and EQ / LOTR kids will mostly roll Order, and Order will outnumber Destruction 2 to 1 at best. But it's ok, I like those odds. Just more stunties for me to kill.
QFT, honestly the demographic for all races/sides/classes/etc will even out. Just play what YOU want. I don't understand why people are analyzing and over-analyzing polls and previous statistics from WoW and think they will apply here? The game will play different from WoW and god can we not get off the subject of WoW? I don't care if WoW players come to this game or not...can we just please stop comparing the two to each other regardless of what is or isn't similar. It's just getting annoying at this point.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
Well you'll probably find that all the races in Warhammer are racist, as in the all view their race as being superior to all others. You call Order racists but are they any more racist than Green Skin's or Dark Elves?.... No not really.
The Orcs in this game are not racist, a racist believes he is superior to another based on his racial make up.
The orcs here could care less about what they fight.
They just want to fight your butt so that they can be "Da strongest orkz", and if no one else is around to fight, they fight themselves...alot, thats why the chaos dwarves bred the Blackrock Orks, to have a ork that would not fight at the drop of the hat and had a bit of disipline.
The Chaos troops are also not racist, they dont't care if humans are better than the other races, they just want to kill everyone for selfish and evil reasons "Blood for the blood deity" and all that rot. If the Orderside is ever defeated Chaos will immeadiately turn on its allies and itself, because its freaking chaos, and they will kill there grandma (and she them) if the idea popped into their head.
The only really bigoted race on the Chaos side is the Dark Elves. If they win the war they will enslave or kill all the other races, and then live in happy hedonism and degenerate morality for pretty much the rest of eternity. Secure in their superiority.
But that was not the point, the point of my post was not to say one side was racist and one was not.
It was to state that in Warhammer there is no truly 'good' side" but there is the LESSER OF TWO EVILS.
And people will gravitate to the side they consider more herioc: Yes order are bigoted uptight xenophobes, who by trying to root out evil are becoming just as bad as the evil they are trying to quall....but they are fighting for their survival agaist those who would slaughter them for the sake of slaughter.
Their is a good side and an evil side in Warhammer, the good side is not all that good but its better than chaos. And casual gamers and those new to a franchise will tend to gravitate to that side when the game begins.
If you want a game where their actually is no GOOD race or even a lesser of evils, Go play Warhammer 40k. those guys are out to get everyone. And the humans started the whole mess....
Again not my point... but then you did not read my post very carefully, I stated clearly, that on the chaos side the Dark Elves were the most obviously racist and considered racist ( I'm going by the little lore I have read and it seems the orcs will fight themselves as much as the other races)
And I already said repeatedly that the Order side was bigoted and why. I know the Dwarves think they are better than the other order races, that the humans do the same, and the elves think they are above everbody period.
Which i stated (in a general way)
And again my point was that even though order, in comparison to chaos, are a bunch of bigots with no sense of proportion, they are still the good guys because they are fighting for survival and were attacked first by hostile forces and are merely trying to defend themselves at this point.
And people in general tend to gravitate to the hero's or even anti hero's.
Think about it: Most people would rather be John Maclain "The cop above the law", than Scarface.
While Scarface is cooler and tougher, and a hell of a lot crazier, part of you is still repulsed by his lifestyle. And if its not...please stay the hell away from me!!
1) As you said all those 'wrongs' happened in the past. The elves in this game were going 'la de da" and leaving the Dark elves to there own devices. The Witch king saw weak point in the High elves defenses and decided to 'right' past wrongs. THAT DOES NOT IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM MEAN HE SHOULD HAVE.
If you put in the name Osama Bin Ladin instead of the witch king, you would have the same thing, someone doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons to avenge past or percieved wrongs.
the elves had plenty of reasons to persecute the dark elves but left them alone. (at least in this version of the lore) That makes them the 'good guys' in this scenario
If the Native americans suddenly rose up as one, Somehow sucesfully seceded from America and then decided to takeover/enslave the rest of the United states for past wrongs, would that make them the good guys? Or what they are trying to attempt any less 'evil'?
2) You nitpicking, I was speaking in completely general terms and your looking for specific instances to refute me.
The orcs fight anyone anytime including themselves. Which is why the Chaos Dwarves bred the Blackrock orcs to stop the infighting between differing tribes of orcs.
Yes there is infighting among the Dark Elves but it is VERY SPECIFIC and not constant. Sure there is spying and murder and the odd fight in the streets or between the entire cities. BUT THATS TRUE FOR EVERY NATION EVERY WHERE INCLUDING ENGLAND AND AMERICA !1
ITS CALLED POLITICS! So your point is moot there because I was speaking in general. If you want to argue the point then please tell me that Britain,where you come from by the away, has only one politcal party and that they never argue among themselves. No country anywhere is immune, neither is any race
I myself am lightskinned and get picked on by darker skinned african Americans, including my own family, that in no way means that my entire race will fight each other at the drop of a hat, which the orcs do, constantly and so do Chaos in general.
3)None of the above matters:
My point which keeps getting dismissed or ignored for some reason is for the last time.
IN GENERAL THE ORDER SIDE WILL LOOK LIKE THE MORE HERIOC SIDE.
Despite their past offenses, order was leaving everyone alone, they got attacked out of the blue for ancient wrongs that really should have been left alone. But one side just could not get over the past and wanted to correct past grievances.
Heck the same scenerio has occured here in America: We attacked Iraq (so not going into the reasons) thinking we were the good guys.... And now we are one of the most hated countries on the planet and are in general looked down upon. The reasons for the attack don't matter, we are still looked at as the bad guys, because we were the aggressors.
And in GENERAL the same thing will happen in WARHAMMER ONLINE. On top of that EA/mythic's Paul has stated repeatedly that the Chaos side was 'bad/evil" and cool
Argue with me all you want but if the developer says they are evil, then all the lore in the world wont change that.
And again my point is that people tend to gravitate to the side that LOOKS more herioc, even if their side is not actually more heroic, heck you even made that choice yourself unconciously
"If you count the Tau"
The Tau have a "your with us or we kill you" policy, that by no means makes them good but compared to the other races they look a lot more Heroic than the Empires "Kill the mutant, the heritic, and the xeno.". or the "We are better than you and your in the way so die now" Policy of the Eldar.
The Tau are very popular for that very same reason because when looking at the other races they seem more GOOD than the others. For the greater good is a great policy.... we have it ourselves, its called communism.... And Im pretty sure being blue skinned communist does not make you a good guy in 40k
To sum up this long arse post; People will gravitate to the side that looks the most herioc. In Warhammer Online thats the Order side. In this game there is a delination of good/evil even if its not supposed to be there in the tabletop game
And people will gravitate to the good side in my opinion. And Mr. Harg if you don't agree with me please give me reasons why you disagree instead of trying to lore lawyer me.
To put it easily these are my impressions on alliance vs horde, order vs destruction.
WoW:
Horde Players: These are the people who are claimed to be more mature but couldn't be further from the truth. They are the majority, min-maxers, epeening e-fame glory hogs. These are the type of people who will be playing in an arcade room, kick butt in a round and look around to see if anyone noticed how leet he was. These are the type of people who when they couldn't beat mike tysons punch out, section Z, metal gear, contra... they put in the game genie.
Alliance Players: The working class and college class. People who like to usually play for fun and don't throw a fit when they lose in the battlegrounds and roll horde. These are the people who had patience with the lame escort quests while the hordies were blowing them by in levels with their simplistic, min-maxed kill quests.
I have played both sides and have been well guilded on both sides. My impression on maturity when it comes to (GAMING) is how you enjoy the game. If you have to sit there and make sure you win each round, pick a class that is " most powerful" with the " most powerful race" with your first character, then you are not mature. You are whiney min/maxer who will never play games for fun, but for character building and "winning". Sadly, you already lost you just don't know it yet. I couldn't stand the horde players as a majority. Most of them were so serious and drab to talk to over voice chat with their constant spec talks ( even after 2 years of playing), which is better, omg this gives 2% more, etc, etc...
I classify the above people as "wowdead". They play nothing else but wow, they do nothing else but wow, they talk about nothing else but wow and the horde, as a majority, have a MASSIVE amount of people just like this.
My alliance experience has always been so much better. Out of the guilds I have been in, yes, I do come across some younger people, but YOUNGER does not mean less MATURE. These people knew how to have fun. They didn't sit there and crunch numbers they jump in and had a blast, because when it comes down to it... ITS...JUST...A...GAME...
I think Order/Dest will be relatively similar. You can see it already, all the destruction guilds showing up with the same mentality, "FEAR US" and such. It gets old and if you ask me, it is much less mature since they will carry that elitist mentality with them in the game. I don't think it will be as bad as WoW because WAR seems to bring in the regiments together and hopefully will put an end to the stupid GUILD vs GUILD BS that we see in other games, even among people in the SAME( you know, TEAM) faction.
To put it easily these are my impressions on alliance vs horde, order vs destruction. WoW: Horde Players: These are the people who are claimed to be more mature but couldn't be further from the truth. They are the majority, min-maxers, epeening e-fame glory hogs. These are the type of people who will be playing in an arcade room, kick butt in a round and look around to see if anyone noticed how leet he was. These are the type of people who when they couldn't beat mike tysons punch out, section Z, metal gear, contra... they put in the game genie.
Alliance Players: The working class and college class. People who like to usually play for fun and don't throw a fit when they lose in the battlegrounds and roll horde. These are the people who had patience with the lame escort quests while the hordies were blowing them by in levels with their simplistic, min-maxed kill quests.
I have played both sides and have been well guilded on both sides. My impression on maturity when it comes to (GAMING) is how you enjoy the game. If you have to sit there and make sure you win each round, pick a class that is " most powerful" with the " most powerful race" with your first character, then you are not mature. You are whiney min/maxer who will never play games for fun, but for character building and "winning". Sadly, you already lost you just don't know it yet. I couldn't stand the horde players as a majority. Most of them were so serious and drab to talk to over voice chat with their constant spec talks ( even after 2 years of playing), which is better, omg this gives 2% more, etc, etc...
I classify the above people as "wowdead". They play nothing else but wow, they do nothing else but wow, they talk about nothing else but wow and the horde, as a majority, have a MASSIVE amount of people just like this. My alliance experience has always been so much better. Out of the guilds I have been in, yes, I do come across some younger people, but YOUNGER does not mean less MATURE. These people knew how to have fun. They didn't sit there and crunch numbers they jump in and had a blast, because when it comes down to it... ITS...JUST...A...GAME...
I think Order/Dest will be relatively similar. You can see it already, all the destruction guilds showing up with the same mentality, "FEAR US" and such. It gets old and if you ask me, it is much less mature since they will carry that elitist mentality with them in the game. I don't think it will be as bad as WoW because WAR seems to bring in the regiments together and hopefully will put an end to the stupid GUILD vs GUILD BS that we see in other games, even among people in the SAME( you know, TEAM) faction.
A man (Im making an assumption, lets hope its right) after my own heart. I started off on horde and enjoyed it for a while, until I got declined from a guild because I couldn't put in, and this is no joke, 40 hours a week. It just got more and more crazy from there. I couldn't enjoy the game on horde side because of the constant curseing and whining of these so called more mature players.
After switching to alliance, I got accepted into a small, but nice, guild. Guess what? about 10x as much fun, and we did complete almost all of the end game content pre BC (we were about half way through the necropolis). We teamed up with other guilds and accomplished allot. I even enjoyed PvP more, and I do remember a time when Alliance lost in av almost every time.
age =/= maturity.
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
cut and dry, people who usually choose the evil side for a reason, for probably the same reason they obsess about being supreme and killing things in a game mercilessly gives the happy feeling the law in the real world prevents them from. I've also noticed military people tend to play evil. this is a broad based generalization but it could be what makes a noticable difference in the two sides.
people who play the good side generally have less repressed hostility or aggression most likely.
cut and dry, people who usually choose the evil side for a reason, for probably the same reason they obsess about being supreme and killing things in a game mercilessly gives the happy feeling the law in the real world prevents them from. I've also noticed military people tend to play evil. this is a broad based generalization but it could be what makes a noticable difference in the two sides. people who play the good side generally have less repressed hostility or aggression most likely.
Im in the Navy, and I play good. My best friends a Marine, and he plays good. Generalizations indeed sir.
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
Comments
Meh, yeah I played Horde on my time in WoW and Horde was alot more mature than Alliance overall, and we usually were alittle better xoordinated in PvP. But did it really change my expierience in WoW all that much? Ehhh....I dont think so. I didnt really notice a change, if any. I dont think this is a real problem especially for Mythic since theyve been dealing with faction imbalances in DAOC. However form what Ive been seeing the evil races in WAR seem to be much more popular than the good, so we may see a switch in WAR. We'll have to wait and see, really.
Ppl keep saying "good versus evil". This game is Chaos vs. Order. Your Chosen Of Chaos is running around dismembering ppl, but at the same time your Witchhunter is locking ppl into the cowfeeders, and burning heritics at the stake.
Im thinking that the cute/sexy thng may not be as much of an issue in WAR as in WoW, i think a more serious issue will be the exclusion of female toons from some class choices. This will cause girl gamers (they do exsist, ive seen them!) to side more with Order which could skew the population balance.
Currently playing: EVE
Have played: CoH and WoW
I think it will be hard to predict, because in WoW you chose race and then class, race is the most important factor there, however in Warhammer online you can´t, for example have a Orc Witchhunter. Meaning the class choise will matter much more.
If you are looking at just Chaos it is a no brainer to say that Chosen will be much more popular than Marauder, in the table top game chosen is far more powerful unit, and even if isn´t true in the online version, this will be hard thing let go.
If Order turns out to be much more popular, not unlikely since High Elfs and Empire is the most played races in table top version, further expansion could help out a lot. Expanding Chaos with Khorne for example, or introduce Skaven. Both very popular choises.
I hope they don´t introduce Wood Elfs though.... the game will not survive that many Legolases
What will be a nightmare with this kind of pvp game though is how to balance it, if it draws a huge crowd of ex-WoWsers there will be no end of nerf-overpowered etc, posts in forums.
Could be nice to have forums that you actually enjoy to read instead of being the arena of crybabies like WoW forums is today.
Since both sides have pretty races, im going to have to go with destruction, people would rather play evil pretty than good pretty, i think the balance wont be like it was first in WoW w hich was like 4 alliance to 1 horde, but more like 4 destruction to 3 order, i think then the side diffrence will change when the most overpowered classes are found out
Yeah killing folks and chopping up their bodies to throw into a portal is good.
Sorry, I don't buy into the whole "not good or evil". Chaos is obviously the bad guys and very evil.
Yes so the Empire who burn down and kill the entire population of a village just to weed out one single hint of corruption makes them instantly "good".
Bollocks!
Yeah killing folks and chopping up their bodies to throw into a portal is good.
Sorry, I don't buy into the whole "not good or evil". Chaos is obviously the bad guys and very evil.
Yes so the Empire who burn down and kill the entire population of a village just to weed out one single hint of corruption makes them instantly "good".
Thats the whole thing about Warhammer, none of the races are good. They are all bad but like most people see themselves as good.
Here is the thing, In WoW also the Horde are not supposed to be 'bad' the Orcs are neutral on the verge of being good, the Tauren are goodie goodie tree huggers in general. the trolls don't really care and do whatever it takes to survive. The two 'evil races" are not even all that evil, they are either completly misunderstood and twisted, or addicts who will do anything to get a fix or cure their addiction.And the alliance are in general a bunch of racist who think their way and their religion is the right way.
Sound familiar?
The problem is that when you have casual players, particularily those who don't know the franchise, they gravitate to the side that looks and sounds like the 'good guys'
In WAR that side is Order; Yes they are racist bastards who crave to punish all those who don't comform to their standards. But they follow the pattern of 'good guys' in that they have knights and priest ect. ect. and the fact that they follow "order"
While we here know that there is no good side in the Warhammer Universe, it is easier to see the lesser of two evils, and gravitate towards that. Im sorry but Chaos has tenticals, believes in sacrificing, enslaves, and kills for the sake of killing. And they dont't do this for some high ideal or philosoply, they do it just because, or because its fun.
So yes i believe people will gravitate to the ORDER side, mostly because its the lesser of two evils. You can say there is no good side in WAR but to those who come in new to the lore, ORDER seems a heck of a lot more herioc than CHAOS
Fion is correct. RvR games, and faction vs faction pvp based games will always have army imbalances.
You do not have to look at it this way though, you could look at is as playing on the more mature or skilled side. Or, you can look at it as you are the underdog who has more targets to aim at than the other faction. Simple solution.
children and 'people who get offended at the possibility of anyone anywhere in the world possibly passing gas ever' are the answers to your questions.
the kids are too busy making nakie elves dance and being kids in general. the offended are too busy looking for things to report to be any good to their team. the handful that are left are just sorta out of luck.
more mature types don't have to have a purrrty toon in order to play it. a pretty girl willing to play an ugly overweight monster toon is gong to be one hardcore pvper that'll beat the muffins out of 9/10s of her opponents.
true story.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
QFT, honestly the demographic for all races/sides/classes/etc will even out. Just play what YOU want. I don't understand why people are analyzing and over-analyzing polls and previous statistics from WoW and think they will apply here? The game will play different from WoW and god can we not get off the subject of WoW? I don't care if WoW players come to this game or not...can we just please stop comparing the two to each other regardless of what is or isn't similar. It's just getting annoying at this point.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
The Orcs in this game are not racist, a racist believes he is superior to another based on his racial make up.
The orcs here could care less about what they fight.
They just want to fight your butt so that they can be "Da strongest orkz", and if no one else is around to fight, they fight themselves...alot, thats why the chaos dwarves bred the Blackrock Orks, to have a ork that would not fight at the drop of the hat and had a bit of disipline.
The Chaos troops are also not racist, they dont't care if humans are better than the other races, they just want to kill everyone for selfish and evil reasons "Blood for the blood deity" and all that rot. If the Orderside is ever defeated Chaos will immeadiately turn on its allies and itself, because its freaking chaos, and they will kill there grandma (and she them) if the idea popped into their head.
The only really bigoted race on the Chaos side is the Dark Elves. If they win the war they will enslave or kill all the other races, and then live in happy hedonism and degenerate morality for pretty much the rest of eternity. Secure in their superiority.
But that was not the point, the point of my post was not to say one side was racist and one was not.
It was to state that in Warhammer there is no truly 'good' side" but there is the LESSER OF TWO EVILS.
And people will gravitate to the side they consider more herioc: Yes order are bigoted uptight xenophobes, who by trying to root out evil are becoming just as bad as the evil they are trying to quall....but they are fighting for their survival agaist those who would slaughter them for the sake of slaughter.
Their is a good side and an evil side in Warhammer, the good side is not all that good but its better than chaos. And casual gamers and those new to a franchise will tend to gravitate to that side when the game begins.
If you want a game where their actually is no GOOD race or even a lesser of evils, Go play Warhammer 40k. those guys are out to get everyone. And the humans started the whole mess....
Again not my point... but then you did not read my post very carefully, I stated clearly, that on the chaos side the Dark Elves were the most obviously racist and considered racist ( I'm going by the little lore I have read and it seems the orcs will fight themselves as much as the other races)
And I already said repeatedly that the Order side was bigoted and why. I know the Dwarves think they are better than the other order races, that the humans do the same, and the elves think they are above everbody period.
Which i stated (in a general way)
And again my point was that even though order, in comparison to chaos, are a bunch of bigots with no sense of proportion, they are still the good guys because they are fighting for survival and were attacked first by hostile forces and are merely trying to defend themselves at this point.
And people in general tend to gravitate to the hero's or even anti hero's.
Think about it: Most people would rather be John Maclain "The cop above the law", than Scarface.
While Scarface is cooler and tougher, and a hell of a lot crazier, part of you is still repulsed by his lifestyle. And if its not...please stay the hell away from me!!
*sigh* You don't get it.
1) As you said all those 'wrongs' happened in the past. The elves in this game were going 'la de da" and leaving the Dark elves to there own devices. The Witch king saw weak point in the High elves defenses and decided to 'right' past wrongs. THAT DOES NOT IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM MEAN HE SHOULD HAVE.
If you put in the name Osama Bin Ladin instead of the witch king, you would have the same thing, someone doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons to avenge past or percieved wrongs.
the elves had plenty of reasons to persecute the dark elves but left them alone. (at least in this version of the lore) That makes them the 'good guys' in this scenario
If the Native americans suddenly rose up as one, Somehow sucesfully seceded from America and then decided to takeover/enslave the rest of the United states for past wrongs, would that make them the good guys? Or what they are trying to attempt any less 'evil'?
2) You nitpicking, I was speaking in completely general terms and your looking for specific instances to refute me.
The orcs fight anyone anytime including themselves. Which is why the Chaos Dwarves bred the Blackrock orcs to stop the infighting between differing tribes of orcs.
Yes there is infighting among the Dark Elves but it is VERY SPECIFIC and not constant. Sure there is spying and murder and the odd fight in the streets or between the entire cities. BUT THATS TRUE FOR EVERY NATION EVERY WHERE INCLUDING ENGLAND AND AMERICA !1
ITS CALLED POLITICS! So your point is moot there because I was speaking in general. If you want to argue the point then please tell me that Britain,where you come from by the away, has only one politcal party and that they never argue among themselves. No country anywhere is immune, neither is any race
I myself am lightskinned and get picked on by darker skinned african Americans, including my own family, that in no way means that my entire race will fight each other at the drop of a hat, which the orcs do, constantly and so do Chaos in general.
3)None of the above matters:
My point which keeps getting dismissed or ignored for some reason is for the last time.
IN GENERAL THE ORDER SIDE WILL LOOK LIKE THE MORE HERIOC SIDE.
Despite their past offenses, order was leaving everyone alone, they got attacked out of the blue for ancient wrongs that really should have been left alone. But one side just could not get over the past and wanted to correct past grievances.
Heck the same scenerio has occured here in America: We attacked Iraq (so not going into the reasons) thinking we were the good guys.... And now we are one of the most hated countries on the planet and are in general looked down upon. The reasons for the attack don't matter, we are still looked at as the bad guys, because we were the aggressors.
And in GENERAL the same thing will happen in WARHAMMER ONLINE. On top of that EA/mythic's Paul has stated repeatedly that the Chaos side was 'bad/evil" and cool
Argue with me all you want but if the developer says they are evil, then all the lore in the world wont change that.
And again my point is that people tend to gravitate to the side that LOOKS more herioc, even if their side is not actually more heroic, heck you even made that choice yourself unconciously
"If you count the Tau"
The Tau have a "your with us or we kill you" policy, that by no means makes them good but compared to the other races they look a lot more Heroic than the Empires "Kill the mutant, the heritic, and the xeno.". or the "We are better than you and your in the way so die now" Policy of the Eldar.
The Tau are very popular for that very same reason because when looking at the other races they seem more GOOD than the others. For the greater good is a great policy.... we have it ourselves, its called communism.... And Im pretty sure being blue skinned communist does not make you a good guy in 40k
To sum up this long arse post; People will gravitate to the side that looks the most herioc. In Warhammer Online thats the Order side. In this game there is a delination of good/evil even if its not supposed to be there in the tabletop game
And people will gravitate to the good side in my opinion. And Mr. Harg if you don't agree with me please give me reasons why you disagree instead of trying to lore lawyer me.
To put it easily these are my impressions on alliance vs horde, order vs destruction.
WoW:
Horde Players: These are the people who are claimed to be more mature but couldn't be further from the truth. They are the majority, min-maxers, epeening e-fame glory hogs. These are the type of people who will be playing in an arcade room, kick butt in a round and look around to see if anyone noticed how leet he was. These are the type of people who when they couldn't beat mike tysons punch out, section Z, metal gear, contra... they put in the game genie.
Alliance Players: The working class and college class. People who like to usually play for fun and don't throw a fit when they lose in the battlegrounds and roll horde. These are the people who had patience with the lame escort quests while the hordies were blowing them by in levels with their simplistic, min-maxed kill quests.
I have played both sides and have been well guilded on both sides. My impression on maturity when it comes to (GAMING) is how you enjoy the game. If you have to sit there and make sure you win each round, pick a class that is " most powerful" with the " most powerful race" with your first character, then you are not mature. You are whiney min/maxer who will never play games for fun, but for character building and "winning". Sadly, you already lost you just don't know it yet. I couldn't stand the horde players as a majority. Most of them were so serious and drab to talk to over voice chat with their constant spec talks ( even after 2 years of playing), which is better, omg this gives 2% more, etc, etc...
I classify the above people as "wowdead". They play nothing else but wow, they do nothing else but wow, they talk about nothing else but wow and the horde, as a majority, have a MASSIVE amount of people just like this.
My alliance experience has always been so much better. Out of the guilds I have been in, yes, I do come across some younger people, but YOUNGER does not mean less MATURE. These people knew how to have fun. They didn't sit there and crunch numbers they jump in and had a blast, because when it comes down to it... ITS...JUST...A...GAME...
I think Order/Dest will be relatively similar. You can see it already, all the destruction guilds showing up with the same mentality, "FEAR US" and such. It gets old and if you ask me, it is much less mature since they will carry that elitist mentality with them in the game. I don't think it will be as bad as WoW because WAR seems to bring in the regiments together and hopefully will put an end to the stupid GUILD vs GUILD BS that we see in other games, even among people in the SAME( you know, TEAM) faction.
Deleted message, was superfluous and continued an argument, that should not be continued.
I soo disagree with the above poster though....
The alliance may have more casual gamers but they are by no means more casual about the play style.
After switching to alliance, I got accepted into a small, but nice, guild. Guess what? about 10x as much fun, and we did complete almost all of the end game content pre BC (we were about half way through the necropolis). We teamed up with other guilds and accomplished allot. I even enjoyed PvP more, and I do remember a time when Alliance lost in av almost every time.
age =/= maturity.
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
cut and dry, people who usually choose the evil side for a reason, for probably the same reason they obsess about being supreme and killing things in a game mercilessly gives the happy feeling the law in the real world prevents them from. I've also noticed military people tend to play evil. this is a broad based generalization but it could be what makes a noticable difference in the two sides.
people who play the good side generally have less repressed hostility or aggression most likely.
Im in the Navy, and I play good. My best friends a Marine, and he plays good. Generalizations indeed sir.
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.