I can c where problems would come from doing things like that, but that just depends on how much contriol the players get & what they do with it, so i think we should giv it a shot & c what happens, mabye it'll turn out good
I agree, it needs a chance before its condemned.
There are plenty of times when something that sounds like it'll fail succeeds, something that sounds like it'll succeed fails, and something that sounds like a good idea turns out to be Hitler's evil deeds and your people losing the war.
You never know how something will turn out until you give it a try. It could be the best or worst MMO in history, or somewhere in between.
Player run games are cool...if most people are grown up, mature, and not evil mean bastards.
The problem is...when people are behind a computer screen, and never REALLY have to pay any consequences for their actions..they are even more selfish, mean, petty, and straight AHOLES than they would ever consider being in real life.
With that being said..you have to put controls into place to keep those jerks from ruining your game for everyone else. If you don't have that in place, they will ruin your game when they make people miserable to the point that they quit.
So, in all honesty, people's freedom in games is restricted by a need to keep the jerks from ruining it for everyone.
Until you can assure that jerks get fragged permanently, no sane dev is going to expose his throat to these people.
I really cant see why anyone would want a linear MMO. Singleplayer/Multiplayer RPGs already do the linear thing, and they do it 10 times better than any MMO out there. I mean, it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole "massively multiplayer" part when everyone is just running around doing the exact same quest lines that dont effect anything. Why do you need thousands of other players to do that? Theyre not really populating the world, since the world is static. Theyre not filling any niches, since youre all doing the same static quests and since crafting and the economy are pointless. Theyre not helping you accomplish some epic task, since the world basically stays the same whether you go out and conquer those scripted instances or just sit on you a$$ and chat...
I guess the question is why havn't game companies created MMO's with Sandbox especially when from looking at this thread the majority prefer Player Run
Because they are lots harder to code and control. And first rule of business is less risk is sure money, even if it is less because we are not innovative.
UO was meant as such and failed terribly, so they had to introduce more rules and even more until they decided that a non pvp facet was their easiest solution.
We players are the games best assets and greatest dangers and developers are still looking for the magic formula as what you can allow players to do without sacrificing too much.
Shadowbane failed because of buggyness and too much freedom, sort of as UO at the start. But that is because the developers did not set any workable rules and future games might manage to provide such, that the games are fun and interesting for all to play.
where do people get this idea UO was always around 150k-200k on mmo charts. check wikipedia. sure their pop increased with Trammel. google around for "Ultima Online" and see how unpopular it is. check youtube too
oh and dont forget about Lineage series (in the millions). Even Lineage 1 was still doing well. Hell isnt AC1 Darktide still around? I was watching some fun pvp videos just made for that game in 2007 on yotube. so hell at the very least port your open PVP MMO to Asia and enjoy the millions you will sweep in
we have seen many cookie cutter MMOs live and die but yet the sandbox MMOs are *still kickin*. People seem to always gloss over that fact. perhaps they have more longetivity eh?
This definately has its pros and cons, it would bring a level of realism with the game but how much control over the game are we talking here, because some players could make things become lopsided for the clan or guild etc. while making everyone else in the game weaker by doing it, i believe too much power held in the hands of the players could destroy a mmo
Player run games are cool...if most people are grown up, mature, and not evil mean bastards. The problem is...when people are behind a computer screen, and never REALLY have to pay any consequences for their actions..they are even more selfish, mean, petty, and straight AHOLES than they would ever consider being in real life. With that being said..you have to put controls into place to keep those jerks from ruining your game for everyone else. If you don't have that in place, they will ruin your game when they make people miserable to the point that they quit. So, in all honesty, people's freedom in games is restricted by a need to keep the jerks from ruining it for everyone. Until you can assure that jerks get fragged permanently, no sane dev is going to expose his throat to these people. d.
Its not that bad games like EVE and Starport handle it pretty easily. EVE- give the newbs a little measure of security. once they join a corp they're free dibs
Starport- integrate player skill (like dodging) and watch even a weak newbie kill a vet and live to see another day
wait a second guys this isn't about "open PVP" you can have player run areas in almost any game I've seen it
players we can make our own fun. It doesnt have to be "open PVP everywhere". technically no game does that anyway full blown (edit- okay there are some but those are rare and you get my point). in UO old rule set you fairly safe in towns. so anyway, even in a game like City of Heroes jkust guess where we had our player run events? Always in the FFA areas (Arenas can team with anyone) and Warburg (players even invented Capture-The-Flag the developers were AMAZED)
give us our own little player run areas and we can create our own fun, our own events. even just a little area. Even in WoW at Stranglethorn Vale I remember my guyild holding fun events there. every man going for what they knew. wasnt well done though because they didnt allow you to team with *anyone*. In city of heroes in Arenas you could allowing us players to fix bad developer mistakes and imbalances in PVP
In AC1 Darktide can watch the youtube films. Players ran FFA contests. real matches like you'd see in Unreal Tournament (deathmatch). and because risk vs reward is always in effect on Darktide guess what- the winner *automatically* got rewarded with armor and riches.
This is just a little thing but the more open you go- the more player run craziness you'll see. In EVE they even had "pod racing" to get into a ship (I didnt do that but others told me bout it)
we're talking *player run* - the more tools you give us the more wonderful content we can create. It doesnt have to be full blown open PVP I have just realized people are thinking in-0the-box here. No man, I'm talking just give players areas. but the bigger and full featured it is the more fun we create for ourselves
Cryptic did a few things right with City of Heroes. They gave us a Test Server to test new patches. They gave us Arena. The devs were amazed to see us players go to test and hold our player run events. Last Man Standing, etc.
This really has nothing to do with open PVP we're talking something way bigger then this.
edit- hm, this one would make a good blog going into more detail. I've read a lot of misconceptions here.
Comments
I agree, it needs a chance before its condemned.
There are plenty of times when something that sounds like it'll fail succeeds, something that sounds like it'll succeed fails, and something that sounds like a good idea turns out to be Hitler's evil deeds and your people losing the war.
You never know how something will turn out until you give it a try. It could be the best or worst MMO in history, or somewhere in between.
---------------------
-----------
Player run games are cool...if most people are grown up, mature, and not evil mean bastards.
The problem is...when people are behind a computer screen, and never REALLY have to pay any consequences for their actions..they are even more selfish, mean, petty, and straight AHOLES than they would ever consider being in real life.
With that being said..you have to put controls into place to keep those jerks from ruining your game for everyone else. If you don't have that in place, they will ruin your game when they make people miserable to the point that they quit.
So, in all honesty, people's freedom in games is restricted by a need to keep the jerks from ruining it for everyone.
Until you can assure that jerks get fragged permanently, no sane dev is going to expose his throat to these people.
d.
hey: someone's got to run the bad guys; right?
and it helps if the bad guys are relly; truly despicable;
which i think pretty well covers the folks u were referring to.
I really cant see why anyone would want a linear MMO. Singleplayer/Multiplayer RPGs already do the linear thing, and they do it 10 times better than any MMO out there. I mean, it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole "massively multiplayer" part when everyone is just running around doing the exact same quest lines that dont effect anything. Why do you need thousands of other players to do that? Theyre not really populating the world, since the world is static. Theyre not filling any niches, since youre all doing the same static quests and since crafting and the economy are pointless. Theyre not helping you accomplish some epic task, since the world basically stays the same whether you go out and conquer those scripted instances or just sit on you a$$ and chat...
Applauding.
Because they are lots harder to code and control. And first rule of business is less risk is sure money, even if it is less because we are not innovative.
UO was meant as such and failed terribly, so they had to introduce more rules and even more until they decided that a non pvp facet was their easiest solution.
We players are the games best assets and greatest dangers and developers are still looking for the magic formula as what you can allow players to do without sacrificing too much.
Shadowbane failed because of buggyness and too much freedom, sort of as UO at the start. But that is because the developers did not set any workable rules and future games might manage to provide such, that the games are fun and interesting for all to play.
where do people get this idea UO was always around 150k-200k on mmo charts. check wikipedia. sure their pop increased with Trammel. google around for "Ultima Online" and see how unpopular it is. check youtube too
oh and dont forget about Lineage series (in the millions). Even Lineage 1 was still doing well. Hell isnt AC1 Darktide still around? I was watching some fun pvp videos just made for that game in 2007 on yotube. so hell at the very least port your open PVP MMO to Asia and enjoy the millions you will sweep in
we have seen many cookie cutter MMOs live and die but yet the sandbox MMOs are *still kickin*. People seem to always gloss over that fact. perhaps they have more longetivity eh?
May the force be with you
Its not that bad games like EVE and Starport handle it pretty easily. EVE- give the newbs a little measure of security. once they join a corp they're free dibs
Starport- integrate player skill (like dodging) and watch even a weak newbie kill a vet and live to see another day
wait a second guys this isn't about "open PVP" you can have player run areas in almost any game I've seen it
players we can make our own fun. It doesnt have to be "open PVP everywhere". technically no game does that anyway full blown (edit- okay there are some but those are rare and you get my point). in UO old rule set you fairly safe in towns. so anyway, even in a game like City of Heroes jkust guess where we had our player run events? Always in the FFA areas (Arenas can team with anyone) and Warburg (players even invented Capture-The-Flag the developers were AMAZED)
give us our own little player run areas and we can create our own fun, our own events. even just a little area. Even in WoW at Stranglethorn Vale I remember my guyild holding fun events there. every man going for what they knew. wasnt well done though because they didnt allow you to team with *anyone*. In city of heroes in Arenas you could allowing us players to fix bad developer mistakes and imbalances in PVP
In AC1 Darktide can watch the youtube films. Players ran FFA contests. real matches like you'd see in Unreal Tournament (deathmatch). and because risk vs reward is always in effect on Darktide guess what- the winner *automatically* got rewarded with armor and riches.
This is just a little thing but the more open you go- the more player run craziness you'll see. In EVE they even had "pod racing" to get into a ship (I didnt do that but others told me bout it)
we're talking *player run* - the more tools you give us the more wonderful content we can create. It doesnt have to be full blown open PVP I have just realized people are thinking in-0the-box here. No man, I'm talking just give players areas. but the bigger and full featured it is the more fun we create for ourselves
Cryptic did a few things right with City of Heroes. They gave us a Test Server to test new patches. They gave us Arena. The devs were amazed to see us players go to test and hold our player run events. Last Man Standing, etc.
This really has nothing to do with open PVP we're talking something way bigger then this.
edit- hm, this one would make a good blog going into more detail. I've read a lot of misconceptions here.