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Freedom but at what price ?
Kaynos1972
Member Posts: 2,316
in Darkfall
Anyone else feels that this game will be a HUGE nerf fest ? I mean whenever this game will be released, they claiming we will be able to do anything and everything. This is too good to be true. I'm afraid this game will turn into a huge nerf fest. Do you agree ?
Comments
That is why they're taking a long time to develop it. Balancing.
Yeah their spending alot of time on this game. They have alot of stuff they have to work out on their own becuase no one else has done it or they have done it wrong.
In WoW it wouldent work with sandbox and player freedom.
DF is developed from day one to have it. Thats why it wont become any nerf business
no I dont agree there are game designers out there that really understand PVP. And next, its called a SKILL BASED system. Any power someone else has that you want- you can train it too. If they nerf a power, we ALL GET NERFed. seriously you need to go play a skill based game so it will become clearer to you. there is no big thing to nerf. there are no classes that we know of (well besides prestige Classes)
On the other hand, DarkFall is a game without Classes and it is designed around PvP. This game could potentially be the most balanced PvP game that there is.
When you only have skills there is no balance issue. Certain skill combinations might be more powerful, but you have the freedom to make a character specifically for that type of character. It is more of an ebb and flow then a stark balance issue. They might have to tune up/down some skills but it should be pretty obvious.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
btw I should learn to be more patient (I'm going to attach this to my post above). Anyway the big problem with skill based systems- they are truly perfect for PVP. We can have even 1v1 battles. they allow raw player skill to come out. Next, even in a duel you can gain experience. Yes thats right even in a duel. You gain experience using your favorite skills
So you know how those lame level based MMOs always rely on diminishing returns? You know like no rewards for duels and fake points for PVP? Well not needed here. You train up your favorite skills with use.
This is why even the game design experts say Skill based systems ideal for Sandbox games. Crafters really become better at crafting doing what they want to do.
It is not a perfect system however. There may be a perfect build that everyone min/max to achieve. In UO this was Tank/Mage. In DF you cant Tank_Mage. but something else might popup sure
But the key is we can all min/max for the ideal build if one pops up. That means even 1v1 and then its just a test of pure skill
Thats the worse and best case scenarios. Its a win/win for PVP
From the first day i read up on DF, the sandbox and freedom sounded 100% safe.
The thing is that too many have WoW as their first MMO, and the sandbox cant be understood.
In DF you can have/get/learn anything as everyone else can. That mean the player have to take responiblity for the chartacter, you cant say "shit, my chartacter is to weak for PvP".....well you have "build it that way.
And the gameplay is too complex for just one playstyle. You might have to learn to use your skills for all situations....maybe even learn how to become a "damage dealer", "tank" or "spellcaster" by the use of tactics and terrain.
i'm reallylooking forward to this game!
i think it is going to be a revalution on mmorpgs, i really love the skill based system, so you can use everything you can pick up instead of just using one thing ( cloth, leather, plate, polearms, swords ect. )
really looking forward to it!
Someone know how long they are in the working progress?
What Happend to Sex, Drugs And Rock'n'Roll?
Now we only have Aids, Crak and Techno
The best guess we have is beta this winter....but some say its vaporware....so we dont know.
Still the developers are aiming for beta this winter
i'm really looking forward to this game..
but i've heard that it first will be releashed in 2010 :O
or at least a homepage is saying that
What Happend to Sex, Drugs And Rock'n'Roll?
Now we only have Aids, Crak and Techno
I am hoping this game is as good as it says. And yes with a skill based game there is no nerfing to be had. Everyone is what they want to be and can learn what ever they wish. Skill base games rock, Eve for one is a damn good game that is skill based. I am pretty much sick of the lvl capped games when you reach the cap there isn't anymore to do but grind, grind, grind, and they seem to be getting easier to reach the cap. I remember in EQ when it took a long time to cap out now the games only take a month for me and I am what most would call a casual player. Nothing better than a good skill based game to bring out the true RPG players. Most MMO's now I feel are not RPGs any longer, just grind fests. Even the PvP in most games now suck and are not challenging, zerg fests is not PvP.
...Don't listen to this guy, thats complete bulls**t.
Developers have no offical statements of DF beta for this winter. Its just as same as last summer was (this years).
Ah above you and somone else said skill based systems cant be nerfed? then you say this, making me think you played UO.. We all know what happened to tank mages right? they got nerfed. Archery got nerfed.. tonnes of things got nerfed.. im pretty sure UO and its amazing skill system is where nerfing came into existence. Now if you really think this game will be spared of nerfing, then you are pretty naive. No dev can perfectly balance a game to the liking off all he people who will play it, and if they try, it will take 20 years to come out, and the ystill wont succeed. players are incredibly innovative and can come up with things devs never dream of.. prime example of that is FFXI's 2nd best tank was meant to be a debuffing dps, and players turned it into a tank.. sorry to get off topic there.. but yeah, things in this game will get hit by the ol' nerf bat
...Don't listen to this guy, thats complete bulls**t.
Developers have no offical statements of DF beta for this winter. Its just as same as last summer was (this years).
Ehh? They posted it this summer...twice.
I bet you dont think a Forumfaller would just make something like that up
saying that nerfs wont affect anyone because its a skill based system is stupid. If you have build your char around bow and bow damage get nerfed, then it surely will affect you alot, and you have to spend loads of time training up an alternative skill if you can't live with the nerf.
Anyways to answer the question, what price we will have to pay for the freedom DF plan to provide us. I don't think we have to pay any price. Maybe that you won't be able to run around looking like a x-mas tree from all the epix you are wearing? I don't really see that as a price one would have to pay, more like a relief.
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
What you mean with the bow skill?? That is just one skill, you will probely be able to have 50+ skills.
And the only price i can see is this: You dont know what will happen when you login. What will have changed? Is it safe to do some "quests", gather wood or try to hunt down a deer?. So you cant plan exactly what to do, much as it can be in real life.
And thats a "price" im willing to pay to get rid of that WoW static #"*¤
true, but I wil give this last example. There is a player named Timmy in a skill based title:
what if Timmy just purely trained in bows and that got nerfed now Timmy is screwed. but if you ask me Timmy was stupid for not cross training melee skills to fight a warrior that gets too close and silly for not training magery for healing and rezzing. Think bout it- Timmy would be an idiot yes? Why in God's Green Earth would Timmy skip out on all the great skills in this game that he could learn? okay, so maybe Timmy has a good reason. Maybe he's a PVE'er not there to fight. Well guess what worse case scenario Timmy can fix it. Timmy can learn new skills to maybe make archery path doable or just switch skills. lost time sure- but he doesnt have to reroll. Skill based systems are very flexible hence why some call it FoTM. Cause it empowers players to fix the stupid crap developers do
Cases:
1) Let's say if bows was only skill in the game. Well guess what Timmy is still competitive with his peers. even the worse case scenario Timmy can still pwn cause everyone else will suck too
2) Let's skip to best case. bows got nerfed to oblivion. But Timmy still has magery, fighting, and everything else at his disposal. The big picture? Timmy can still pwn. That is all that matters, long term, the big picture.
3) Let's skip to a realistic scenario. Bows got nerfed and now its -onpar- with other skills. But Timmy has found out if he learns magery he can buff his arrows with fire. What happened? Well the developer forced to Timmy to be more diverse. He cant just pwn everyone with bows anymore! They enrfed bows sure- but they also forced Timmy into trying out magery so now he really has a good use for something he never needed before. Sure, short term Timmy might be pissed true. But l;ong term? Timmy might bless the Developers for forcing him to innovate and discover new methods.
the best in skill based games will always cross train the best skills available. you can pretty much read any debate in the blogsphere and most posters will always point out Tank_Mage builds are what people will strive for if they can reach it
This is a win/win for PVP you cant spin it into anything else. I've seen it work in skill based titles. I've seen it work in FPS (instead of hundreds of spells in rainbow 6: vegas we have countless guns, grenades, and devices)
Now take WoW. Let's say I have a Warrior. my Warrior gets nerfed hard. I'm screwed for eternity. I cant fix it. I have to reroll or just deal with it.
Nerfs hit Class based games way harder due to their heavily confined nature. one day you're on top, then you get nerfed, how you're a joke
Hehe, hundreds of skills all with levels and dependencies don't kid yourself that their arent levels and dependencies within skills because there will be. They are just available to everyone. More variety but the grind will exist. They will cap the total skill point if they don't it will be 10000 clones in one instance, if they do well think about that one you have UO. So lets hope they have a level/skillconcept.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
While skills do have levels it wont be the one with the higher level who wins. Sure you can call it grind but anything can be considered a grind. Yes there will be a cap but its a soft cap. Sure a mage could where heavy armor but his casting time will take a hit signifigantlly.
Hehe, hundreds of skills all with levels and dependencies don't kid yourself that their arent levels and dependencies within skills because there will be. They are just available to everyone. More variety but the grind will exist. They will cap the total skill point if they don't it will be 10000 clones in one instance, if they do well think about that one you have UO. So lets hope they have a level/skillconcept.
im not sure what you mean all skill based games I've ever seen have a cap (100%) and each skill is leveled individually (Oblivion, UO, EVE, Crackdown, Wurm, etc)
edit - maybe you need to clarify your post more I never said there was no 'grind' in any of my posts ever. Although I do feel skill based systems make the grind way less because you are not forced to hit a 'max level' to compete against your fellow man. To state it simply.
Yes I agree. There FAQ sounds great and grand-but also too good too be true. Not to mention kind of unprofessional. Reminds me of Vanguard-everything was going to be great blah blah it will have this and that etc. Launch came and was nothing but bugs,unfinished work and totally lame. Plus this sounds like they are going to need A LOT of money to pull this one through, Sigil couldn't even do it on their own so can these people? who have never made a mmo before?(i am saying that without actually looking up their history
Sounds to me like one of those games that will either
A) Be stopped due to no funds
B)Released too soon(probably due to no funds)
C) Sold to $oe and given the old "Upgrades or Enhancements or Revision"
I wonder what on earth people saw in Vanguard in the first place it was just another watered down EQ-clone too me. yet another game that pushed PVP to the curve and got what was coming to them. dont be mad at DF because you picked a bomb. I was telling the vanguard fanbois their game was gonna tank months ago look me up in those old topics lol
B. No they have taken their time and is expecting to start closed beta very soon
C. haha yea right.
wow your right, you predict Everything! Omg why didnt i see it before, your like G-O-D dude!