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Economic question..
nubadak
Member Posts: 150
I have seen may videos on the excitment and action of POTBS (and i luv em) I was wondering if there is one that adresses the economic side of the game.
As an example: I understand the players will be supplying ships and cannons for the combat players to buy but who will supply the wood and stone? Another question is who will make the swords and guns for the players?
The game looks great ans I'll buy the box set as soon as it his the shelves!
I'll be on this like a salty dog to booty!
ty in advance for any ideas or answers that ypu all have.
Cheers!
CptCanada
Comments
players players and players.
If you buy anything in this game it was made by a player
Reading this devlog makes my loins tingle:
http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.php?pageKey=news/article&article_id=10253
Basically, crafting is a *must* for the players. Otherwise we'll all be sailing around in a one man boat throwing rocks at each other.
Quoting the important parts of the dev logs in case you're too lazy to read
[quote]
The basic principles of the economy, then, came down to three things. One: Players, not game systems, should determine the value of an object. Items should be worth what players are willing to pay for them, not worth what A_Bag_Merchant_01 is willing to pay for them. Two: All players should be participants in the economy. This is inevitably true anyway; I just wanted to make it explicit. If you want goods, with only a few exceptions you buy them from another player. Every item in the world, again with a few exceptions, is in the world because another player made it—from wood planks to ships of the line, from loaves of bread to architectural plans. (And everything I just mentioned is actually in the current version of the game, and can be produced by players.) Three: PvP should determine control of vital resources, and strongly impact the economy, but in a way that does not destroy the mercantile gameplay of a PvE merchant. If a foreign power takes over your home port, I want you to still be able to play, but I want you to be sending strongly-worded letters to your local uberguild, demanding they retake the port.
Having set the stage, I’ll briefly outline how the economy actually works. Every player has a finite number of lots—right now that number is 10, but it might be larger or smaller in the final release. Lots are an abstraction of how much property you can own, and are tracked on an account-wide basis. They’re not tied to any specific port, but instead represent a global amount of real estate you can own and manage. Players build structures in their lots. Structures are things like logging camps, mines, and plantations; they also include things like forges, lumber mills, weavers, and shipyards. Most structures use 1 lot, but some huge structures, like the largest shipyards, can use 2 or more. Structures are located in specific ports—if you build an iron mine in Tampico, your mine is actually located in Tampico. To use it, you have to be in Tampico.
[/quote]
There are many levels of production in the economy. There are structures that harvest raw materials and produce logs, stone, etc. There are structures that take these and produce finished goods (hull patches, canonballs, etc). There are structures that take one set of intermediate goods and produce another. At the top of the chain live shipyards, which take huge amounts of intermediate goods and produce ships. It's a vast interconnected web of production, and all the structures are owned and run by players. You can choose to occupy any niche you want, buying and selling on the AH.
Rick
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
When I craft in this game do I have to stand at some location and physically do the crafting for hours on end as in other MMOS or can I click a button to begin a production line then go about my business?
Ah NVM I read the article on the website sounds fantastic - no more craft grinding YAY!!!!
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I will say this is definately one thing that has really tweaked my interest and the more I am reading about it the more interested I have become.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
Yeah, the time accumulates in real time whether you are online or off, up to 3 Days of labor per structure. You can then "spend" this labor instantly to make stuff, effectively decided then what they've been doing while you've been gone. So no, you don't have to wait in real time while a bar fills up on your screen and you get up to get a drink.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
/agree,When I 1st heard of the game I was already very intrested but the more I hear about the crafting and how the whole ingame is basically player made the more I cant wait to be a proud sub of PotBS...
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
looks like a mix between EVE (supply and demand)
and old SWG (placing harversters in lots)
fantastic!
==========================
There are similarities, but our resources don't move around every patch like in SWG. Nor do you have to search all over for them in the landscape. If a resource is available at a port, you can land there and do your business without trekking about the island surveying. Our resources are commodities, so all oak logs are the same, no matter who harvests them. We don't have the 6 billion randomly generated varieties of ore that SWG had (I have no clue if they still do, I left way pre NGE). Given that all these resource appear on the AH, having a bazillion varieties would really make it a pain.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Quick question about the whole crafting aspect.
Will every player be able to make every item if they choose? Or will we have to pick a certain path in crafting and stick with it?
I guess what I'm asking is...If every player can make every item, then how is the economy going to survive? Why would I pay someone else for something that I can make myself?
Sorry if that sounds stupid, but from what I've read about the crafting, I haven't really seen this particular topic addressed.
"$OE - We Put The "FU" in Fun."
You only have a limited number of lots (10) where you can produce things, which will take a little effort and cost to change. So although you could in theory make everything you needed, it would involve an almost constant changing of lots and wouldn't be very efficient time or cost wise.
There are similarities, but our resources don't move around every patch like in SWG. Nor do you have to search all over for them in the landscape. If a resource is available at a port, you can land there and do your business without trekking about the island surveying. Our resources are commodities, so all oak logs are the same, no matter who harvests them. We don't have the 6 billion randomly generated varieties of ore that SWG had (I have no clue if they still do, I left way pre NGE). Given that all these resource appear on the AH, having a bazillion varieties would really make it a pain.
Good to know, back in the old SWG days it was a very tedious task to try and keep up with the different spawns of materials and there qualities. Thanks for taking that pain out of the economy and I am sure will make the crafting and gathering much more enjoyableThough the game itself looks very nice and cant wait to play it, the whole concept of the economy and crafting is what has me hooked right now and I will definately be pre-ordering the game
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
Thanks for all the great responses everyone..wow top post for a few days. I'v played just about every mmorpg but Ultima online and this one looks very well rounded. I am happy to see the free market idea of the game and the fact that production will be tied to a physical location.
Again thanks for all the responses and wow...hatz off to Mr. Ricksaada! Keep this ball rolling it's a big part of the game.
Cheers!
CptCanada
This sounds almost like EVE (except for the lots).
The problem I keep finding with crafting in MMORPG is that if any player can produce X item with the same stats then there you have it. Nothing special about it. What made crafting different in SWG was that the resources determined the quality of the item. Yea I can make a food item with any old resource but the stats were severely diminished from top quality resources. This made crafting a profession all on its own which was great. The crafters who took their time finding the best resources or willing to pay top dollar saw the greatest reward monetarily.
You became famous in the server as a top crafter offering the best items. This sounds exactly like what happened with EVE. The items anyone could create just ended up eventually at sale at prices that were not even worth producing the item.
Until items become unique like they were in SWG (SOE's wisdom introduced non-decay loot gear...), I don't see crafting being a huge thing.
The one thing I did like about EVE is that items decayed... sort of. If you blew up your ship, kiss it good bye. It was gone and if you were lucky you would still have some of your equipment not destroyed. And yes, items that were extremely unique (as in maybe 1 or 2 given out for events) could be destroyed forever as well. It added an element of risk as well as a way to at least get some part of the economy constantly rolling.
Just my two cents I guess, still searching for something like SWG used to be in respect to crafting.
Afaik the economy in PotBS is centered around shipbuilding. Its not about getting quality items, but to get the 1 million things together from all parts of the world to finally construct a ship. Ships will get sunk, ship outfittings destroyed and ammo consumed, so this will be the motor of the economy: Get better and bigger ships+outfitting and replace them when lost. I really like the idea of being the manager of a shop and not doing the actual crafting myself!
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Life is too short to play bad games.