I like quality quests also, classic EQ1 had many, but you pursued them for the possible item rewards and satisfaction of solving them as well as the lore experience. They rarely were designed as experience pursuits. Combat oriented experience systems allow more freedom of where to hunt and what to hunt since there are usually a great variety of mobs available. Every group is a new experience because of the different classes and skills of each character and the individual players themselves. The problem with the WoW, LOTRO, GnH task oriented quest system is that it becomes very linear and boring. They are tasks, not quests, because they require no problemsolving skills and funnel players from lower tiered zones to the next. You have NPCs with unrealistic icons floating over their heads showing you exactly who to see and minimaps with arrows directing you exactly where to go. Its like being led around by your nose without any freedom to explore and adventure. These newer games treat players like dummies, or is it that the newer gamers are just too stupid?
if you like being able to group up and go off to hunt mobs,theres lots of free korean grind games available to you.
So called "free" Korean games are not really free. They are microtransaction driven item shop games and I refuse to play them because an essential core element for any MMOG is that all players have equal access to content and items for one flat fee as in a monthly subscription. There is no point in playing a MMOG where you compete by paying more and more for items or content.
Originally posted by Samuraisword So called "free" Korean games are not really free. They are microtransaction driven item shop games and I refuse to play them because an essential core element for any MMOG is that all players have equal access to content and items for one flat fee as in a monthly subscription. There is no point in playing a MMOG where you compete by paying more and more for items or content.
So called "free" Korean games are not really free. They are microtransaction driven item shop games and I refuse to play them because an essential core element for any MMOG is that all players have equal access to content and items for one flat fee as in a monthly subscription. There is no point in playing a MMOG where you compete by paying more and more for items or content.
So "Dungeon Runners"?
Free to test, 5$/month for full game.
Way too much instancing, might as well play a single box game. NCSoft loves instancing and I dislike it.
Guild Wars, CoX, and Dungeon Runners are mostly instanced and that defeats the purpose of playing a MMOG.
soloing wasn't rare in eq in fact I pretty much soloed my necro all the way up if I remember correctly.
Right. But try that with a warrior or rogue. Either impossible or slow as HELL without twink items. Anyway if you any of you played EQ you might understand what the OP is getting at. Quests, while fun, can be a major distraction that inspires people to solo rather than group up in a multiplayer game. But the days of EQ are dead, so I fully expect this to be a quest driven solo-to-max level game...just like WoW.
Have the Devs said anything about exp deriving mostly or soley from quests?
It would be nice to see a game with a happy medium where you had the option between soloing on quests or grinding. At the end of the day its all about the end game anyway.
I'm with Demorlay - is this a thread from some alternate universe that sprang up in ours? People complainng about the boredom of quests vs. the excitement of grinding? Of course, it all depends, doesn't it - what kind of quest, exactly? Grinding quests (Kill 10 mobs; collect 20 boar stomachs) are old hat. Fun in an FPS kind of way, but not much more. I like more the goal-oriented quest, which you see a lot of in Oblivion/Morrowind. Go get the artifact -- and there are multiple ways to get: Fight you way through the mobs, sneak around and steal it, hire a merc to get it for you, make a replica -- and you get to choose the strategy that works best for you. Or maybe even more wide open quests: Become the lord of the village, either through violence, or bribing everyone in town, or whatever it takes.
Yeah i miss the days of grouping and chatting and getting to know people and then comming across some people you met earlier in another group. Thats how you used to make friends in the older games.
Nowadays you have to wait till cap lvl before you start making friends you really group with.
Though i did love EQ1 back then i dont think i can go back to the grind even though i have great memories of it. It'll be to boring to wait for a spot in a group at that great grind area. Then sit there for hours killing the same mobs.
However the good side of those old days grouping were working together as a team. You alawys had to work together as a team and know your class well. Thats what i miss alot in games nowadays.
I loved grinding xp in dark age of camelot too. It was great fun and there were also a nice amount of quests every lvl for nice item rewards. That was a very balanced game in my opinion. You met up with friends or new people who became your friend after a grind and other days you would just go do some of the new quests available.
In those old combat xp games you'd be apreciated if you did well in a group. It was a nice feeling to get reinvited for that reason. You felt like you were a good player controlling your class well. You dont really get that feeling anymore nowadays. Even LOTRO which brought back the need for grouping which i loved didnt give back the old feeling of being apreciated for knowing your class well like in the old grind games. Simply coz you would just meet up for 1 single quest, finish quest and move on solo again. It wasnt the same though much better then all those solo games out there. To bad LOTRO simply had way to many quests, actually so many quests that i felt to forced, not having enough feeling of freedom, and i left the game coz of that.
I also think old combat games had way more variety in zones and monsters ? Nowadays with quest driven games they can steer you any way they like and therefor can pack way more contact in 1 zone meaning they basically need less zones to fill. Also this cuts down on exploration big time since quests usually point you to every corner of a zone anyway.Though WoW did this well with its quest driven system. You always had just enough quests to gain a lvl, after clearing all quests in the same zone, and then had to look for new places to go quests.
Nowadays new games go overboard with quests, like LOTRO's mistake, and seem to think the more quests the better and in doing so taking away people's feeling of freedom. In LOTRO's case this meant if you cleared one zone of all its quest you missed out on another zone since that zone also had 100 quests waiting while you already were to high lvl. Monster killing gave no xp so whats the point of doing the zone ? Running around checking out scenery ?
All those MMORPG studdies nowadays, after the succes of WoW, come to the same conclusing. The Casual player is the target, hardcore players do not count anymore. It doesnt matter if a hardcore player reaches cap lvl in 3 weeks. The casual player wants a rewarding experience in a short amount of time. This means being able to solo till cap lvl. Casual players want speed lvling and loads of content along the way and things should not be to complex.
This saddens me coz im no casual player and mmorpgs will just get easier and easier tll they reach a point where it all collapses.
Btw spellborn is quest driven and even though im really looking forward to the game the bad news is that a developer in an interview said that killing mobs will hardly give you xp, itll all be quest xp. This is a mistake in my eyes.
yeah i guess thats the thing with the quest xp system. Now instead of farming the same mobs for hours in 1 mmorpg. You do the same quests allllllllways in alllllll mmorpgs. Makes you wonder which is the worse grind ?
At least in different mmorpgs you grind different mobs. Now with the quests you basically kill the same mobs, by grinding the same quests with a different story, wherever you go over and over again in all mmorpgs. It makes you feel like "wtf i thought i was in a new mmorpg ? How come im doing the same quests all over again that i did in my last mmorpg ?"
When you think about it this type of quest/task system wont have that long to live. It will get old way way faster then simply grinding mobs for xp.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by reggie
yeah i guess thats the thing with the quest xp system. Now instead of farming the same mobs for hours in 1 mmorpg. You do the same quests allllllllways in alllllll mmorpgs. Makes you wonder which is the worse grind ?
Not neccessarily true. Quest driven mmo's can be a great deviation from mob grind. Mob grind is the worst type of grind.
I dunno why people presume its basic 6 year old quest driven storylines (the collecting quest)
Quests that can further your involvement with the general scheme of things in a game are the best types. Situations, objectives and goals that develop your character are the way to go.
Meaningfull quests with purpose aren't hard to do, it just takes someone with good imagination and an understanding of the game concept. Quite a few games are going this way these days and a few are soon to be released ^ ^
The best types of quests are the ones that eliminate exp, but offer new rewards instead, open up new areas, continue the character in the world in which its played.
Take AoC for example, its crafting is supposed to be not exp based, but quests further your ability to produce and make and learn new things, in a continuing story arc applicable to the type of character you play. Of course you still need the materials to craft things, but the basis is an excellent concept and takes you away from mob grind in a fashion that hopefully won't be tedious to the other extreme.
Oh i agree that quests are cool just usually mmorpgs come with how many.. 1000 quests ? It takes to much work to even make half of them fun quests to do. Coz usually all they have to work with are mobs and npc's already in the zone. To make many quests true quests would take inmense development time so thats not gonna happen. My guess that maybe some over 25% of them are fun quests and the rest is usually kill 10 of this or fetch this or escort that quests. Always the same stuff.
WoW did it the right way. Just enough quests but not to many and if you wanted you could simply opt for grinding mobs. Ofcourse wow had the same boring quests plenty often only they were the first to truely adopt casual gaming with a full quest system. Other mmorpg's repeat it and it becomes boring fast then since its same old same old again.
Older mmorpgs did the same but there it wasnt a full quest based xp system.
Newer mmorpgs that adopt the quest system usually leave no room for grinding mobs because they have to many quests. They cannot have to many quests Plus good xp from killing mobs, unless they cut all xp by half, including quest xp but since they base all xp on quests there's no room left for xp from mobs. If both would give good xp with to many quests people would cap way to fast since usually for the quests you have to kill mobs. They seem to forget WoW always had just enough quests, only at lvl 55+ where there plenty quests to lvl to 60 easily.
soloing wasn't rare in eq in fact I pretty much soloed my necro all the way up if I remember correctly.
No, soloing wasnt rare for certain classes like Necs, Mages, and Druids. With my warrior I soloed til about 15 before it became pointless, and then grouped all the way up to lvl 50 pre kunark.
Im level 10 in the game now and at last count I had done 63 quests and have another 20 or so in my log.
The point is that doing so many so quickly they lose thier meaning. I dont even read anything but the handy little summary at the bottom now telling you exactly what to do.
Yes of course I could take the time to read the full text, which I did for the first 10 or so but its really not that interesting. How could it be when they are churning out so many ?
What is needed is 1/10 the number of quests, quests with multiple ways to solve, doesnt have to be lots of ways, just 2 or 3 paths. Quests that take a bit longer and require you to both think AND read the quest details. Quests where you feel something has been accomplished EVERY time you finish one.
Even Vanguard does quests better, I do at least read the text for those.
Unless something radical happens content wise over the next 20 levels I think ill be missing this one at release.
Comments
So called "free" Korean games are not really free. They are microtransaction driven item shop games and I refuse to play them because an essential core element for any MMOG is that all players have equal access to content and items for one flat fee as in a monthly subscription. There is no point in playing a MMOG where you compete by paying more and more for items or content.
Free to test, 5$/month for full game.
Free to test, 5$/month for full game.
Way too much instancing, might as well play a single box game. NCSoft loves instancing and I dislike it.
Guild Wars, CoX, and Dungeon Runners are mostly instanced and that defeats the purpose of playing a MMOG.
Right. But try that with a warrior or rogue. Either impossible or slow as HELL without twink items. Anyway if you any of you played EQ you might understand what the OP is getting at. Quests, while fun, can be a major distraction that inspires people to solo rather than group up in a multiplayer game. But the days of EQ are dead, so I fully expect this to be a quest driven solo-to-max level game...just like WoW.
I may have missed something.
Have the Devs said anything about exp deriving mostly or soley from quests?
It would be nice to see a game with a happy medium where you had the option between soloing on quests or grinding. At the end of the day its all about the end game anyway.
I'm with Demorlay - is this a thread from some alternate universe that sprang up in ours? People complainng about the boredom of quests vs. the excitement of grinding? Of course, it all depends, doesn't it - what kind of quest, exactly? Grinding quests (Kill 10 mobs; collect 20 boar stomachs) are old hat. Fun in an FPS kind of way, but not much more. I like more the goal-oriented quest, which you see a lot of in Oblivion/Morrowind. Go get the artifact -- and there are multiple ways to get: Fight you way through the mobs, sneak around and steal it, hire a merc to get it for you, make a replica -- and you get to choose the strategy that works best for you. Or maybe even more wide open quests: Become the lord of the village, either through violence, or bribing everyone in town, or whatever it takes.
Yeah i miss the days of grouping and chatting and getting to know people and then comming across some people you met earlier in another group. Thats how you used to make friends in the older games.
Nowadays you have to wait till cap lvl before you start making friends you really group with.
Though i did love EQ1 back then i dont think i can go back to the grind even though i have great memories of it. It'll be to boring to wait for a spot in a group at that great grind area. Then sit there for hours killing the same mobs.
However the good side of those old days grouping were working together as a team. You alawys had to work together as a team and know your class well. Thats what i miss alot in games nowadays.
I loved grinding xp in dark age of camelot too. It was great fun and there were also a nice amount of quests every lvl for nice item rewards. That was a very balanced game in my opinion. You met up with friends or new people who became your friend after a grind and other days you would just go do some of the new quests available.
In those old combat xp games you'd be apreciated if you did well in a group. It was a nice feeling to get reinvited for that reason. You felt like you were a good player controlling your class well. You dont really get that feeling anymore nowadays. Even LOTRO which brought back the need for grouping which i loved didnt give back the old feeling of being apreciated for knowing your class well like in the old grind games. Simply coz you would just meet up for 1 single quest, finish quest and move on solo again. It wasnt the same though much better then all those solo games out there. To bad LOTRO simply had way to many quests, actually so many quests that i felt to forced, not having enough feeling of freedom, and i left the game coz of that.
I also think old combat games had way more variety in zones and monsters ? Nowadays with quest driven games they can steer you any way they like and therefor can pack way more contact in 1 zone meaning they basically need less zones to fill. Also this cuts down on exploration big time since quests usually point you to every corner of a zone anyway.Though WoW did this well with its quest driven system. You always had just enough quests to gain a lvl, after clearing all quests in the same zone, and then had to look for new places to go quests.
Nowadays new games go overboard with quests, like LOTRO's mistake, and seem to think the more quests the better and in doing so taking away people's feeling of freedom. In LOTRO's case this meant if you cleared one zone of all its quest you missed out on another zone since that zone also had 100 quests waiting while you already were to high lvl. Monster killing gave no xp so whats the point of doing the zone ? Running around checking out scenery ?
All those MMORPG studdies nowadays, after the succes of WoW, come to the same conclusing. The Casual player is the target, hardcore players do not count anymore. It doesnt matter if a hardcore player reaches cap lvl in 3 weeks. The casual player wants a rewarding experience in a short amount of time. This means being able to solo till cap lvl. Casual players want speed lvling and loads of content along the way and things should not be to complex.
This saddens me coz im no casual player and mmorpgs will just get easier and easier tll they reach a point where it all collapses.
Btw spellborn is quest driven and even though im really looking forward to the game the bad news is that a developer in an interview said that killing mobs will hardly give you xp, itll all be quest xp. This is a mistake in my eyes.
I know i'm really, really tired of the go kill 10 wolfs kinda quests. Another game full of these type of quests, sound boring already.
yeah i guess thats the thing with the quest xp system. Now instead of farming the same mobs for hours in 1 mmorpg. You do the same quests allllllllways in alllllll mmorpgs. Makes you wonder which is the worse grind ?
At least in different mmorpgs you grind different mobs. Now with the quests you basically kill the same mobs, by grinding the same quests with a different story, wherever you go over and over again in all mmorpgs. It makes you feel like "wtf i thought i was in a new mmorpg ? How come im doing the same quests all over again that i did in my last mmorpg ?"
When you think about it this type of quest/task system wont have that long to live. It will get old way way faster then simply grinding mobs for xp.
Not neccessarily true. Quest driven mmo's can be a great deviation from mob grind. Mob grind is the worst type of grind.
I dunno why people presume its basic 6 year old quest driven storylines (the collecting quest)
Quests that can further your involvement with the general scheme of things in a game are the best types. Situations, objectives and goals that develop your character are the way to go.
Meaningfull quests with purpose aren't hard to do, it just takes someone with good imagination and an understanding of the game concept. Quite a few games are going this way these days and a few are soon to be released ^ ^
The best types of quests are the ones that eliminate exp, but offer new rewards instead, open up new areas, continue the character in the world in which its played.
Take AoC for example, its crafting is supposed to be not exp based, but quests further your ability to produce and make and learn new things, in a continuing story arc applicable to the type of character you play. Of course you still need the materials to craft things, but the basis is an excellent concept and takes you away from mob grind in a fashion that hopefully won't be tedious to the other extreme.
Oh i agree that quests are cool just usually mmorpgs come with how many.. 1000 quests ? It takes to much work to even make half of them fun quests to do. Coz usually all they have to work with are mobs and npc's already in the zone. To make many quests true quests would take inmense development time so thats not gonna happen. My guess that maybe some over 25% of them are fun quests and the rest is usually kill 10 of this or fetch this or escort that quests. Always the same stuff.
WoW did it the right way. Just enough quests but not to many and if you wanted you could simply opt for grinding mobs. Ofcourse wow had the same boring quests plenty often only they were the first to truely adopt casual gaming with a full quest system. Other mmorpg's repeat it and it becomes boring fast then since its same old same old again.
Older mmorpgs did the same but there it wasnt a full quest based xp system.
Newer mmorpgs that adopt the quest system usually leave no room for grinding mobs because they have to many quests. They cannot have to many quests Plus good xp from killing mobs, unless they cut all xp by half, including quest xp but since they base all xp on quests there's no room left for xp from mobs. If both would give good xp with to many quests people would cap way to fast since usually for the quests you have to kill mobs. They seem to forget WoW always had just enough quests, only at lvl 55+ where there plenty quests to lvl to 60 easily.
No, soloing wasnt rare for certain classes like Necs, Mages, and Druids. With my warrior I soloed til about 15 before it became pointless, and then grouped all the way up to lvl 50 pre kunark.
Im level 10 in the game now and at last count I had done 63 quests and have another 20 or so in my log.
The point is that doing so many so quickly they lose thier meaning. I dont even read anything but the handy little summary at the bottom now telling you exactly what to do.
Yes of course I could take the time to read the full text, which I did for the first 10 or so but its really not that interesting. How could it be when they are churning out so many ?
What is needed is 1/10 the number of quests, quests with multiple ways to solve, doesnt have to be lots of ways, just 2 or 3 paths. Quests that take a bit longer and require you to both think AND read the quest details. Quests where you feel something has been accomplished EVERY time you finish one.
Even Vanguard does quests better, I do at least read the text for those.
Unless something radical happens content wise over the next 20 levels I think ill be missing this one at release.
Not only is it a quest driven game, it is a "fetch quest" driven game.
The quest suck, they are not fun and they are just like every other MMO.
lol you can solo in eq1 easy if you know how nerco and druids also beastlords too best for soloing
god know what your all on about eq1 was not just a group/raid game
you did what u liked