Less than they will spend on this next turd of a publish... FAR less. All they have to do to bring back Pre-CU is:
1. Clear off server
2. Restore backup tape
3. Hook it up to the network
It's a LITTLE more complicated than that, but not much. They spend more money on bagels at SOE Austin than it would cost to bring up classic servers. I also don't buy the "devs cant support it" line either. Every time they do ANYTHING (including their crappy Village revamp they are doing for the next publish) they are working with Pre-CU code. It's all still there, it's just dormant. Most of the game's underlying code is still pre-CU.
So there isn't even an argument that it can't be done. They just don't want to do it. Not even the "we need permission from LEC" argument flies, all they have to do is go to LEC, tell them that they want to open X classic servers that they think will get Y number of new subscribers that will make them Z amount of money. LEC would turn them down only IF they really do want to see SWG die.
The effect of doing classic would be phenomenal. For one thing, it's give SOE an answer to all the haters that couldn't be refuted.
BTW, At 16K subs we'd then be talking about nearly 6 million a year.
Perhaps, but what you and so many conveniently ignore are the costs associated with a return to preCU.
Those costs include switching back to preCU, to be added on top of the cost of switching to the NGE in the first place. There is also the cost of preCU servers and code, which was more expensive to maintain than NGE. And don't forget miscellaneous cost, such as company overhead, SWG must bear for before any profit can be claimed. SWG must demonstrate a payback schedule for a game already four years old that maybe has – at best- another two or three years of life.
Notice I’m not providing any hypothetical numbers to argue over. I have no guess what these costs are any more than you do. But all the supposing on how profitable a preCU server would be always ignores these facts. Instead, the claim is “$14.95 x hypothetical returning players = mucho money SOE is too stupid or stubborn to go after.”
So what of your hypothetical numbers? Will you get 16k for a year or 16k for a month? Remember, preCU was loosing subscriptions. This was stated by SOE but you don’t believe them. Do you believe your own friends list? If you were there, then you know it was true. 16k might return, but what makes you think they will stay? I submit your $6 million a year would be substantially less. I’ll concede you an average of $3 million a year, making $9 million over three years.
Given all this- and from a business, not emotional, perspective - do you still believe a return to preCu is justified at this point in time?
As I've already said SOE can use the same "season tickets" system that sports teams use. Sell a minimum amount of 1 year subs before they can activate a server for 1 year.
That way there is no "hypothetical" numbers. They have the minimum set out to pay for the server for 1 year.
BTW, At 16K subs we'd then be talking about nearly 6 million a year.
Perhaps, but what you and so many conveniently ignore are the costs associated with a return to preCU.
Those costs include switching back to preCU, to be added on top of the cost of switching to the NGE in the first place. There is also the cost of preCU servers and code, which was more expensive to maintain than NGE. And don't forget miscellaneous cost, such as company overhead, SWG must bear for before any profit can be claimed. SWG must demonstrate a payback schedule for a game already four years old that maybe has – at best- another two or three years of life.
Notice I’m not providing any hypothetical numbers to argue over. I have no guess what these costs are any more than you do. But all the supposing on how profitable a preCU server would be always ignores these facts. Instead, the claim is “$14.95 x hypothetical returning players = mucho money SOE is too stupid or stubborn to go after.”
So what of your hypothetical numbers? Will you get 16k for a year or 16k for a month? Remember, preCU was loosing subscriptions. This was stated by SOE but you don’t believe them. Do you believe your own friends list? If you were there, then you know it was true. 16k might return, but what makes you think they will stay? I submit your $6 million a year would be substantially less. I’ll concede you an average of $3 million a year, making $9 million over three years.
Given all this- and from a business, not emotional, perspective - do you still believe a return to preCu is justified at this point in time?
As I've already said SOE can use the same "season tickets" system that sports teams use. Sell a minimum amount of 1 year subs before they can activate a server for 1 year.
That way there is no "hypothetical" numbers. They have the minimum set out to pay for the server for 1 year.
It so amazingly simply.
Tbh I've been frequently mystified by the decision making process connected with SWG. At a number of critical decision points over the history of the game, it seems painfully clear that exactly the wrong decisions were made. I realize that my comment is based in large part on hindsight bias. It's easier to see now what should have been done, then it was to see at the time, but I still think SOE/LA should review this decision making history to see what could be learned:
-Players really liked the pre-cu version of the game, BUT the game had a lot of bugs, some important imbalances, and some people wanted additional content. Along with this, Day 1 players (Day 2 I understand really due to server stability issues) played a game that was missing some key elements. These players, I'm told, were promised combat balancing and bug fixes in something people refer to as the CURB. This would have left the original game mechanics intact, yet addressed bug and balance issues. Instead of following through on this project, SOE/LA introduced the CU (combat upgrade). The CURB which had been worked on collaboratively between players and devs was scrapped in favour of the CU, which was a top down, unwanted change to some core game mechanics. At this point, why did SOE/LA scrap the CURB in favour of the CU? Did they consider the longer term ramifications of unwanted changes to game mechanics? Did they consider the longer term ramifications of abandoning the collaborative process, and not following through on all the hard work put in by Devs and players on the CURB? Did the "wowification principle" obscure clear thinking and good decision making?
-With the CU, people began immediately posting how it had affected their professions. I remember especially how this affected crafting of armour. Decay rates that were functional in the Pre-cu were not functional in the CU. Specifically, every 2 or 3 times you got in a fire-fight, your pants would be blown off. Funny yes, in a way, but also a costly pain in the butt (pardon the pun). I'm trying to remember which major game change left me standing in my gotchies in the middle of nowhere because I was now no longer able to equip my gear, but that was also a major pain. Gear was expensive and took some time and effort to acquire/purchase etc. The CU also started with ridiculous graphic effects everytime you mounted your speeder or pet (SWOOSH) lol, and there was a brilliant blinding light graphic for something in combat that made it impossible to see anything at all on the screen. Slowly (it was so painfully slowly) it seemed that some the new problems with the CU were getting addressed. The SWOOSH was gone, the blinding light was gone and professions that were borked were getting revamps. Some people were so royally burned by the CU that they wouldn't be back, and I can understand that. Others, like me, were thinking, "hmm maybe this CU thing is going to be okay if they keep working on it the way they have been lately."
-Then came the Trials of Obiwan. At long last, high level new game content. When this came out, my entire guild (with few exceptions) pre-ordered. Wow, the lava planet really looked cool, and there were sooo many new quests given out by a ton of new contacts at the mining station on Mustafar. In-game items for pre-order were very popular as well. A lot of the loot items were very cool and specifically tailored to some of the many existing professions at the time. This would be a good time to see if the CU was going to work out after all....
-or...maybe not. The NGE was announced I think the day after our VISA payments for the ToOW were deemed "final". Another critical decision point: stick with the CU that we've been working so hard to de-bug and balance and see how it fares with the new content, OR change game mechanics so completely that the CU would look like a minor adjustment. This would, as we all know, include deletion of dozens of professions, skills, animations, quest content etc. etc., and it would break key game mechanics including chat, movement and combat (what else is there??)
-How anyone decided to go with the NGE instead of sticking with the CU for the new expansion I may never understand, but this was indeed a key decision point. It was also a key decision to with-hold information about the upcoming changes and to market the new exapansion as if it was made for professions that would soon be deleted. Did SOE/LA not see how people would be impacted by their communication strategy? Did they not realize how people would feel about such widespread deletion? Did they fail to consider the impact of broken chat, movement and combat systems? Did they see that they gave players the new expansion under the CU, and people were loving it, and then they took it away right after it was paid for?
-Now people, of course, were asking for a rollback to a functional system that people were enjoying, and later the rollback cries changed to requests for classic servers. Rollback and classic servers are again key decision points. SOE/LA, as we know, offered neither. They chose instead to keep the core NGE mechanics and slowly re-introduce features that had been stripped from the game by the NGE. They say that classic servers aren't a good idea,
BUT WHY AT THIS POINT WOULD THEY STILL HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE IN THEIR DECISION MAKERS OR THEIR DECISION MAKING PROCESS?
(ingredients for disaster: WoW envy, group think, confirmation bias, not understanding strengths and weaknesses of your own product, not listening to those that do understand, setting aside ethical principles for "the greater good" (which of course is really just a rationalization for acting on WoW envy)
My favorite subject. I want everyone to know that since the launch of the NGE and the debacle surrounding that (Trials of Obi Wan etc), I have made every concerted effort not to buy anything put out by LA or Sony. Games (PotBS), TV's, anything. If anyone knows how I can let them know that, that would be cool. A silent boycott is not nearly effective. I don't even need them to bring back the pre-cu. I just want a letter of their acknowledgment that the way they treated their customers was abhorrent. I want an apology.
My favorite subject. I want everyone to know that since the launch of the NGE and the debacle surrounding that (Trials of Obi Wan etc), I have made every concerted effort not to buy anything put out by LA or Sony. Games (PotBS), TV's, anything. If anyone knows how I can let them know that, that would be cool. A silent boycott is not nearly effective. I don't even need them to bring back the pre-cu. I just want a letter of their acknowledgment that the way they treated their customers was abhorrent. I want an apology.
T
You know what? At this point, that's all I would want as well. A good, heartfelt apology for all the misdirection/dishonesty especially, for releasing things that simply didn't work in key areas, and for deleting so many accomplishments and dismantling the game's community. I'd like them to acknowledge and apologize for doing these things, and for the impact these actions had on their gaming community. One dev made an attempt at an apology, but it was very watered down and included a comment about being proud to be in a company that is willing to try new things. I understand why he had to say it that way for the sake of his career probably, but it wasn't nearly as helpful as it could have been. I'd like an apology more than anything, and an end to the mind-games and spin-doctoring SOE has engaged in to try to improve its tarnished image. Honesty and contrition would go much further for image building and for healing.
The confidence level in the decision makers at SOE/LEC is beyond zero confidence. It's down to about -6 by now. EVERY decision they've made post JTL has been the wrong one.
I'd bet that a retro server would be quite a bit more successful then some people would like to admit for the simple fact that 2 years of "crying" for it would have generated a lot of curiousity from people who have heard of it but never had the chance to try it.
There does not seem to be an MMO forum that has not had it mentioned on several occasions. I'm sure most people who are active in MMO's have undoubtedly heard of pre-CU SWG by now.
I'd bet if there was a retro server available we'd see many new faces that have never played pre-CU before.
I just had a thought. I'd bet that a retro server would be quite a bit more successful then some people would like to admit for the simple fact that 2 years of "crying" for it would have generated a lot of curiosity from people who have heard of it but never had the chance to try it. There does not seem to be an MMO forum that has not had it mentioned on several occasions. I'm sure most people who are active in MMO's have undoubtedly heard of pre-CU SWG by now. I'd bet if there was a retro server available we'd see many new faces that have never played pre-CU before.
This is true. I started playing EU because of all the talk about skill boxes and sand box from this forum. I never played Pre-CU or even CU but have had enough players / forum members tell me about it so the curiosity was there. And, several SWG players, who also never played the be fores have came over to EU for the same reason. SO far, all have liked it. We have had 2, 1 from SWG beta and another day 1 vet come over to EU too.
As good as EU is, it's still not Star Wars. The IP along with these features would defiantly be a draw. I know that when EMU is completed, I'll be there also.
I just had a thought. I'd bet that a retro server would be quite a bit more successful then some people would like to admit for the simple fact that 2 years of "crying" for it would have generated a lot of curiosity from people who have heard of it but never had the chance to try it. There does not seem to be an MMO forum that has not had it mentioned on several occasions. I'm sure most people who are active in MMO's have undoubtedly heard of pre-CU SWG by now. I'd bet if there was a retro server available we'd see many new faces that have never played pre-CU before.
This is true. I started playing EU because of all the talk about skill boxes and sand box from this forum. I never played Pre-CU or even CU but have had enough players / forum members tell me about it so the curiosity was there. And, several SWG players, who also never played the be fores have came over to EU for the same reason. SO far, all have liked it. We have had 2, 1 from SWG beta and another day 1 vet come over to EU too.
As good as EU is, it's still not Star Wars. The IP along with these features would defiantly be a draw. I know that when EMU is completed, I'll be there also.
First yes i 2 would like a pre-cu server to be added, wouldn't play it but really would love to see one coming.
EU i have tried after our last ....."discussion" .....as you pointed out this awesome game you found. So i tried it, saw it was made with the CryEngine2 so had visualy high hopes, aswell seeing their website. In game i must admit it felt somewhat strange, knowing what the Cryengine can do with scenery i was sort of disappointed, especialy character movement. But..... i continue'd, met some nice people, one was offering me mentorship which i accepted but told i was only in to get a feel about the game, and that was alright with "her" i think it was a her she looked like one. Anyway after she gave me some guidens about "sweat" i rushed of to explore the surroundings, and in time i sort of became impressed, as i notice'd i just had to get use to the scenery and not think to much what i should expect from the cryengine, so like i said became somewhat impressed with the buildings and options. Now the movement i still experiance'd as bad, did some tuning with me key's but its just the movement that sort of set me of.
The game has every ingridient i really like in it but the real thing i absolutly do not like is pay rl cash for just about everything, that is if you want to progress, sure can try and collect sweat or atleast put in a little bit of rl cash in it which i would normaly do for a subfee. But something about the way one pay's for items ingame i just do not feel comferteble doing so....not just yet + I know myself in a mmorpg so i know its best to not go into games like EU. At first one might spend something like what we spend on subfee each month but i bet most of us mmorpg players will soon feel its not enough and we always want more, that the challenge feel we get from a game, and well that challenge to get these items sort of disappears as you don't have to earn the cash by playing the game you just deposit money into hte game and take what ever you want (if skill alowed afcourse)
I'm glad you enjoy it and i'm sure it's a fine game for those who want to play under those conditions, like we mostly say each his own
I just had a thought. I'd bet that a retro server would be quite a bit more successful then some people would like to admit for the simple fact that 2 years of "crying" for it would have generated a lot of curiosity from people who have heard of it but never had the chance to try it. There does not seem to be an MMO forum that has not had it mentioned on several occasions. I'm sure most people who are active in MMO's have undoubtedly heard of pre-CU SWG by now. I'd bet if there was a retro server available we'd see many new faces that have never played pre-CU before.
This is true. I started playing EU because of all the talk about skill boxes and sand box from this forum. I never played Pre-CU or even CU but have had enough players / forum members tell me about it so the curiosity was there. And, several SWG players, who also never played the be fores have came over to EU for the same reason. SO far, all have liked it. We have had 2, 1 from SWG beta and another day 1 vet come over to EU too.
As good as EU is, it's still not Star Wars. The IP along with these features would defiantly be a draw. I know that when EMU is completed, I'll be there also.
First yes i 2 would like a pre-cu server to be added, wouldn't play it but really would love to see one coming.
EU i have tried after our last ....."discussion" .....as you pointed out this awesome game you found. So i tried it, saw it was made with the CryEngine2 so had visualy high hopes, aswell seeing their website. In game i must admit it felt somewhat strange, knowing what the Cryengine can do with scenery i was sort of disappointed, especialy character movement. But..... i continue'd, met some nice people, one was offering me mentorship which i accepted but told i was only in to get a feel about the game, and that was alright with "her" i think it was a her she looked like one. Anyway after she gave me some guidens about "sweat" i rushed of to explore the surroundings, and in time i sort of became impressed, as i notice'd i just had to get use to the scenery and not think to much what i should expect from the cryengine, so like i said became somewhat impressed with the buildings and options. Now the movement i still experiance'd as bad, did some tuning with me key's but its just the movement that sort of set me of.
The game has every ingridient i really like in it but the real thing i absolutly do not like is pay rl cash for just about everything, that is if you want to progress, sure can try and collect sweat or atleast put in a little bit of rl cash in it which i would normaly do for a subfee. But something about the way one pay's for items ingame i just do not feel comferteble doing so....not just yet + I know myself in a mmorpg so i know its best to not go into games like EU. At first one might spend something like what we spend on subfee each month but i bet most of us mmorpg players will soon feel its not enough and we always want more, that the challenge feel we get from a game, and well that challenge to get these items sort of disappears as you don't have to earn the cash by playing the game you just deposit money into hte game and take what ever you want (if skill alowed afcourse)
I'm glad you enjoy it and i'm sure it's a fine game for those who want to play under those conditions, like we mostly say each his own
This, of couce, is the drawback of a real cash ecomony. And your right the temptation to become uber overnight is the way Mind Ark makes their $. We got 1 guy, who had a uber jedi on SWG, who now wants to put in $50, right now, to get some of the stuff he wants. But................ The large drawback to that is decay. Everything (EVERYTHING) decays in this game and if you do not have the skills built to use the item your getting, the decay makes it impossible to keep going with that item/weapon until u do build your skills. The skills seems to go a bit slow also. LOL I have went from newb, inept, poor, weak, mediocre, to beginner in the skill boxes. I am bringing up my sweat ability and can get almost 2K sweat a night now, (all in a little over a week) So I'm getting about 12 PED a night plus building my melee skill in looting the 1s who attack while sweating, I can almost offset the decay now on my sword. All with only depositing $15 (just what I would have paid SOE for a month). And I still have almost 100 PED of that left (spent a little over 50 so far).
And what they do not say, really, is the cry-engine will be implimented sometime in the near future. I have heard from players that its coming in Dec along with vehicles, helicopters, etc etc. The trailer that they have on their website is the future advancement. I figured that when they get it into the game, I'll actually be preogressed enough to get out of the newb area and enjoy it. LOL
I think u have to go into a game like this with a mindset of moderation, just like RL. I can see now that I'll get the items that I had in SWG, only no where as fast. You really need to think about the economy just about every secound in game. I'm not killing the harder creatures that take about 10 blows of the sword due to decay. The return is not there yet. But I am progressing. Last night I figured out my skills have progressed so I can kill a different creature, now, which has a more loot chance, thereby increasing, the $ I can make in game to the next small level.
Look me up, and I'll give you the few pointers that I have figured out so far. Like, you can drown most of the attacking animals to get them off of you. Oemore is the toon name. Good to have you in game. Just remember, it's free to play so you can take your time.
<snip> BUT WHY AT THIS POINT WOULD THEY STILL HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE IN THEIR DECISION MAKERS OR THEIR DECISION MAKING PROCESS? (ingredients for disaster: WoW envy, group think, confirmation bias, not understanding strengths and weaknesses of your own product, not listening to those that do understand, setting aside ethical principles for "the greater good" (which of course is really just a rationalization for acting on WoW envy)
I've said before I would love to know the decision-making process that went into greenlighting the NGE. What data were they using and how was it obtained? What were the true goals? What were the discussions? Who objected, who concurred?
We know the results were horrible, but was the decision truly "wrong?" Was it a good decision that simply failed miserably?
<snip> BUT WHY AT THIS POINT WOULD THEY STILL HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE IN THEIR DECISION MAKERS OR THEIR DECISION MAKING PROCESS? (ingredients for disaster: WoW envy, group think, confirmation bias, not understanding strengths and weaknesses of your own product, not listening to those that do understand, setting aside ethical principles for "the greater good" (which of course is really just a rationalization for acting on WoW envy)
I've said before I would love to know the decision-making process that went into greenlighting the NGE. What data were they using and how was it obtained? What were the true goals? What were the discussions? Who objected, who concurred?
We know the results were horrible, but was the decision truly "wrong?" Was it a good decision that simply failed miserably?
Someday, we will know.
I've thought about what their thought process must have been, and, being a logical person, I can't really think of any rational process that led to the NGE. If they'd given it one thought they HAD to know what the reaction would be. Hell, they had a GOOD taste of it in the 3 weeks between the NGE announcement and NGE going live.
Probably the closest thing to what they were thinking that we know of comes from the posts by Jeff Freeman (Dundee) from this board.
Jeff Freeman, for those of you who don't know, is regarded as the "father of the NGE" (although a year later, after the NGE had obviously failed beyond any doubt and there was real fear on his part that his involvement would harm his career, he came here to try to weasel out of major involvement). The main concepts were his, including the crappy clickfest Benny Hill combat system.
Freeman stated that the vets "were NOT taken into consideration" with respect to the NGE. So, the NGE was created with the Devs and Producers deliberately ignoring what their EXISTING player base wanted to play. Which numbered in excess of 225,000 at that time, a number that is at least 3x higher than any sub number they've had since 75% of everyone quit soon after the NGE.
At that point, had anyone even approaching rudimentary competence of management been around, ALARM BELLS should have been going off... But SOE and LEC have always been the perfect synergy of inept management. They decided to cast aside the "couple hundred thousand geeks" they had playing for a vastly larger, simpler, less demanding player base who were causual Star Wars fans. The geeks, they though, would piss, moan, scream, then come back, they rationalized, because they'd done the same with the CU...
Add to this the most insulting, incompetent PR and marketing effort in the history of the industry (Nancy McIntyre's "uncle owen" and "reading is bad" comments), the Devs hostility towards those pissed off about the changes, and you had a recipe not only for failure, but for spectacular, catastropic, PUBLIC FAILURE.
The NGE got more press than even WOW got. And for the worst reasons possible, and in the worst light possible.
The problem with the NGE vs the CU is that, despite how major the CU alterations were, the game was STILL identifiably the same game. The NGE was literally a completely different game playing on the same graphics engine with the same locations of the old game. Which believe it or not, made it worse, because you could still see, feel, and almost touch what was, but got smacked down by what is. Add to this, the IMMENSE and unprecedented anti-marketing, with appearances on CBS News, and in the New York Times (by a writer who was a pre-CU vet with multiple accounts) there was ZERO chance of attracting any new players at all.
And it did enough to make SOE infamous as the MMO publisher, "that will screw you over without any lube without batting an eye". A reputation that they maintain to this day, as evidenced by the fact that they have to issue pre-emptive "we won't NGE this" statements with every project they get involved in or acquire, and their (foolish) partners have to rush to claim that "SOE won't have any control in gameplay". Yeah, that speaks volumes about the Industry Leader in bad reputation doesn't it? And it's not gotten any better for them even as we approach 2 years since the NGE. Not only has SWG lost most of it's subscriber base, EQ/EQ2 also have eroded.... There are emu shards that have more players than Planetside and MXO...
Simply put, they will have periods like CH6 where a portion of us get desperate enough to go back long enough to get pissed off and quit again. But that's the best they have to hope for.
Unless they did classic servers. The only reason why they don't isn't technical or legal, or even logistical, it's because the same inept moron managers who made all the wrong moves in 2005 are STILL there and in charge, and feel that doing this would be career ending for them.
Serious question: What has John Smedley accomplished in the last 3 years that makes it clear he's the best man for the job or running SOE? Ditto that with Jim Ward at LEC... LEC in many ways is worse. For years they've been used to slapping "Star Wars" on any piece of crap game and having it sell. Lately this is becoming less true.
If they brought back pre-cu it would make a profit. As for pre-cu losing sub: Of course it was every game loses them. (wow probably loses more a month than some games have.) Pre-cu also gained subs each month as well. I don't think they will bring back pre-cu servers simply because of what they did with the NGE. SOE knows they screwed their customers and they do not want to do that again even if their current customer base is half of what it was pre-nge.( I use half only as a number they may have more or less than half the pre-nge number of subscribers)
I know that many people will say why not open one or two pre-cu servers? Well that would king of be like Burger King openning one or two McDonalds. Sure both would have customers and both would turn a profit but compotion with yoursel is not a good thing.
However, if SoE ever did open pre-cu servers I would reopen my five accounts.
I've thought about what their thought process must have been, and, being a logical person, I can't really think of any rational process that led to the NGE. If they'd given it one thought they HAD to know what the reaction would be. Hell, they had a GOOD taste of it in the 3 weeks between the NGE announcement and NGE going live. You and I can’t imagine the rational process because we don’t know the other side of the story. But who knows, maybe they were all just plain insane. Probably the closest thing to what they were thinking that we know of comes from the posts by Jeff Freeman (Dundee) from this board. Jeff Freeman, for those of you who don't know, is regarded as the "father of the NGE" (although a year later, after the NGE had obviously failed beyond any doubt and there was real fear on his part that his involvement would harm his career, he came here to try to weasel out of major involvement). The main concepts were his, including the crappy clickfest Benny Hill combat system. Freeman stated that the vets "were NOT taken into consideration" with respect to the NGE. So, the NGE was created with the Devs and Producers deliberately ignoring what their EXISTING player base wanted to play. Which numbered in excess of 225,000 at that time, a number that is at least 3x higher than any sub number they've had since 75% of everyone quit soon after the NGE. True, the vets were completely discounted. It just isn't possible to believe that was anything other than jaw-droppingly foolish. I want to know what led them to believe they could do that. I can’t believe one day Smed or Torres or whoever simply crawled out of bed, lit a cigarette, scratched his package and said “Frack the vets. Let’s do something wild.” Something led them down this road. I just want to understand, which is why I look forward to the day when full disclosure is possible. Everyone is still tongue-tied by NDAs or loyalty to the job. <snip. Great summary> Simply put, they will have periods like CH6 where a portion of us get desperate enough to go back long enough to get pissed off and quit again. But that's the best they have to hope for. Ha ha! So true. Unless they did classic servers. The only reason why they don't isn't technical or legal, or even logistical, it's because the same inept moron managers who made all the wrong moves in 2005 are STILL there and in charge, and feel that doing this would be career ending for them. This is where you and I greatly disagree. You assume Smed or whoever manages by ego. I assume, because it is more logical, given a publicly traded company that must answer to stockholders, that he manages by numbers. If the bottom line showed a classic server as being profitable, it would happen- especially given the floundering SWG is doing right now. Even given ego, wouldn’t going back and showing profit be better than going forward and coming up empty? SWG will remain -regardless- until SWG2 comes online. Isn't it better if it made money? We will never know for sure until full disclosure is possible. But if you turn out to be correct and Smed and his bosses missed a chance to make SWG profitable - or more profitable - because their egos got in the way, there will be hell to pay from the stockholders, including possible legal action for failure to fulfill fiduciary duty. Serious question: What has John Smedley accomplished in the last 3 years that makes it clear he's the best man for the job or running SOE? Ditto that with Jim Ward at LEC... LEC in many ways is worse. For years they've been used to slapping "Star Wars" on any piece of crap game and having it sell. Lately this is becoming less true. Executives of Smed’s and Ward’s level (did Ward replace Torres? Must have missed the memo . . .) have a contract that spells out conditions of their employment and grounds for dismissal. Sure, they fumbled SWG, but that is probably just a blip on the total of their tenure. I doubt this debacle is enough to relieve either of them.
From what I gather LucasArts had the biggest hand in the CU and NGE, perhaps it is they that should be a target of all the bitching and not SOE.
Then you gather like a starving tribesman, because there's virtual reams of posts from all involved that the nge and the CU were all about the $OE. That LA never had a hand in any of the design, and at most told them to "Fix the game".
$OE treated SWG like Lenny did to all his furry friends. No matter how many times you told Lenny not to pet the creature so hard, he still ends up needing a new pet.
The only theory that might hold water is that LA doesn't want two versions of the game out there at the same time. While that may be true, $OE doesn't want to spend one thin dime on creating any more SWG servers, no matter what code is on it. They want to eliminate at least half the servers, many say down to 3.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Then you gather like a starving tribesman, because there's virtual reams of posts from all involved that the nge and the CU were all about the $OE. That LA never had a hand in any of the design, and at most told them to "Fix the game". $OE treated SWG like Lenny did to all his furry friends. No matter how many times you told Lenny not to pet the creature so hard, he still ends up needing a new pet. The only theory that might hold water is that LA doesn't want two versions of the game out there at the same time. While that may be true, $OE doesn't want to spend one thin dime on creating any more SWG servers, no matter what code is on it. They want to eliminate at least half the servers, many say down to 3.
Pre-CU is coming back whether SOE wants it to or not. They aren't smart enough to bring it back themselves. It would solve many of their problems. Indeed, as I said, if they offered classic, it'd give haters of SOE (I don't hate SWG... I DO hate SOE) nowhere to go. It'd give them an answer to every accusation. We didn't start the fire. Smed did. But I will be throwing gasoline on it as long as I have to.
Hahahah at todays gas prices your gonna go broke long before LA does and LA is the one calling the SWG pre-cu shots (or did anyway). If there ever was gonna be one don't you think it would have happened by now? or are you figuring they are just waiting for some grand 10 year aniversery?
No offense intended really but you are a funny funny guy
Pre-CU is coming back whether SOE wants it to or not. They aren't smart enough to bring it back themselves. It would solve many of their problems. Indeed, as I said, if they offered classic, it'd give haters of SOE (I don't hate SWG... I DO hate SOE) nowhere to go. It'd give them an answer to every accusation. We didn't start the fire. Smed did. But I will be throwing gasoline on it as long as I have to.
Hahahah at todays gas prices your gonna go broke long before LA does and LA is the one calling the SWG pre-cu shots (or did anyway). If there ever was gonna be one don't you think it would have happened by now? or are you figuring they are just waiting for some grand 10 year aniversery?
No offense intended really but you are a funny funny guy
SOE is obviously NOT brining back Pre-cu... not sure why people keep hanong on to their glory year of gaming. . . pre-cu was slow and had boring combat
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You do know you didn't have to be buffed to do combat right?
Besides, an MMO should have much more to it then just combat.
Yeah, I always have to laugh when people bitch that pre-CU combat was "slow and boring" when you could make combat fast and exciting by not buffing up and not putting on armor. Fighting "naked".
Combat was significantly different if you wore armor but did not buff up your secondary stats. You'd soon find yourself in a world of hurt, particularly against multiple PvE opponents. Wade into a nest of Narglatchs (one of the funnest things to do as a TKM) unbuffed and see how frantic things could be.
Buffing up the secondaries made combat prolonged, mainly because your ability to use specials wasn't subject to action depletion because your secondaries refreshed your main pools almost instantly. All three of them.
We had a lot of player events on Ahazi where the rules were: Only use CDEFs, no buffs, no armor. You know, the way the game was played right after launch. Combat was fast, exciting, and fun.
NGE combat can be every bit as slow and boring as pre CU combat is. All you have to do is watch the Jedi asshats duelling in Theed to confirm this. One on one PvP is every bit as tedious and drawn out as it was before. There are just fewer buttons to mash. Fewer options to make a breakthrough.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Hell, you were lucky if you could wear a complete set because of the encumbrance.
Regardless, combat was incredible fast, exciting, and challenging when played without buffs. It was an absolutely superb system of which no other MMO has even come close to IMO.
Significantly different if you wore armor? Hell, you were lucky if you could wear a complete set because of the encumbrance. Regardless, combat was incredible fast, exciting, and challenging when played without buffs. It was an absolutely superb system of which no other MMO has even come close to IMO.
I did like to fight either unbuffed with armour (you had to get those type of armour tailored for you, since 99% of the armour wasn't crafted with encumbrance in mind, but if you did, they was very good unbuffed too), or buffed without armour. It was fun.
Comments
Costs associated with bringing back Pre-CU?
Less than they will spend on this next turd of a publish... FAR less. All they have to do to bring back Pre-CU is:
1. Clear off server
2. Restore backup tape
3. Hook it up to the network
It's a LITTLE more complicated than that, but not much. They spend more money on bagels at SOE Austin than it would cost to bring up classic servers. I also don't buy the "devs cant support it" line either. Every time they do ANYTHING (including their crappy Village revamp they are doing for the next publish) they are working with Pre-CU code. It's all still there, it's just dormant. Most of the game's underlying code is still pre-CU.
So there isn't even an argument that it can't be done. They just don't want to do it. Not even the "we need permission from LEC" argument flies, all they have to do is go to LEC, tell them that they want to open X classic servers that they think will get Y number of new subscribers that will make them Z amount of money. LEC would turn them down only IF they really do want to see SWG die.
The effect of doing classic would be phenomenal. For one thing, it's give SOE an answer to all the haters that couldn't be refuted.
Perhaps, but what you and so many conveniently ignore are the costs associated with a return to preCU.
Those costs include switching back to preCU, to be added on top of the cost of switching to the NGE in the first place. There is also the cost of preCU servers and code, which was more expensive to maintain than NGE. And don't forget miscellaneous cost, such as company overhead, SWG must bear for before any profit can be claimed. SWG must demonstrate a payback schedule for a game already four years old that maybe has – at best- another two or three years of life.
Notice I’m not providing any hypothetical numbers to argue over. I have no guess what these costs are any more than you do. But all the supposing on how profitable a preCU server would be always ignores these facts. Instead, the claim is “$14.95 x hypothetical returning players = mucho money SOE is too stupid or stubborn to go after.”
So what of your hypothetical numbers? Will you get 16k for a year or 16k for a month? Remember, preCU was loosing subscriptions. This was stated by SOE but you don’t believe them. Do you believe your own friends list? If you were there, then you know it was true. 16k might return, but what makes you think they will stay? I submit your $6 million a year would be substantially less. I’ll concede you an average of $3 million a year, making $9 million over three years.
Given all this- and from a business, not emotional, perspective - do you still believe a return to preCu is justified at this point in time?
As I've already said SOE can use the same "season tickets" system that sports teams use. Sell a minimum amount of 1 year subs before they can activate a server for 1 year.
That way there is no "hypothetical" numbers. They have the minimum set out to pay for the server for 1 year.
It so amazingly simply.
Perhaps, but what you and so many conveniently ignore are the costs associated with a return to preCU.
Those costs include switching back to preCU, to be added on top of the cost of switching to the NGE in the first place. There is also the cost of preCU servers and code, which was more expensive to maintain than NGE. And don't forget miscellaneous cost, such as company overhead, SWG must bear for before any profit can be claimed. SWG must demonstrate a payback schedule for a game already four years old that maybe has – at best- another two or three years of life.
Notice I’m not providing any hypothetical numbers to argue over. I have no guess what these costs are any more than you do. But all the supposing on how profitable a preCU server would be always ignores these facts. Instead, the claim is “$14.95 x hypothetical returning players = mucho money SOE is too stupid or stubborn to go after.”
So what of your hypothetical numbers? Will you get 16k for a year or 16k for a month? Remember, preCU was loosing subscriptions. This was stated by SOE but you don’t believe them. Do you believe your own friends list? If you were there, then you know it was true. 16k might return, but what makes you think they will stay? I submit your $6 million a year would be substantially less. I’ll concede you an average of $3 million a year, making $9 million over three years.
Given all this- and from a business, not emotional, perspective - do you still believe a return to preCu is justified at this point in time?
As I've already said SOE can use the same "season tickets" system that sports teams use. Sell a minimum amount of 1 year subs before they can activate a server for 1 year.
That way there is no "hypothetical" numbers. They have the minimum set out to pay for the server for 1 year.
It so amazingly simply.
Tbh I've been frequently mystified by the decision making process connected with SWG. At a number of critical decision points over the history of the game, it seems painfully clear that exactly the wrong decisions were made. I realize that my comment is based in large part on hindsight bias. It's easier to see now what should have been done, then it was to see at the time, but I still think SOE/LA should review this decision making history to see what could be learned:
-Players really liked the pre-cu version of the game, BUT the game had a lot of bugs, some important imbalances, and some people wanted additional content. Along with this, Day 1 players (Day 2 I understand really due to server stability issues) played a game that was missing some key elements. These players, I'm told, were promised combat balancing and bug fixes in something people refer to as the CURB. This would have left the original game mechanics intact, yet addressed bug and balance issues. Instead of following through on this project, SOE/LA introduced the CU (combat upgrade). The CURB which had been worked on collaboratively between players and devs was scrapped in favour of the CU, which was a top down, unwanted change to some core game mechanics. At this point, why did SOE/LA scrap the CURB in favour of the CU? Did they consider the longer term ramifications of unwanted changes to game mechanics? Did they consider the longer term ramifications of abandoning the collaborative process, and not following through on all the hard work put in by Devs and players on the CURB? Did the "wowification principle" obscure clear thinking and good decision making?
-With the CU, people began immediately posting how it had affected their professions. I remember especially how this affected crafting of armour. Decay rates that were functional in the Pre-cu were not functional in the CU. Specifically, every 2 or 3 times you got in a fire-fight, your pants would be blown off. Funny yes, in a way, but also a costly pain in the butt (pardon the pun). I'm trying to remember which major game change left me standing in my gotchies in the middle of nowhere because I was now no longer able to equip my gear, but that was also a major pain. Gear was expensive and took some time and effort to acquire/purchase etc. The CU also started with ridiculous graphic effects everytime you mounted your speeder or pet (SWOOSH) lol, and there was a brilliant blinding light graphic for something in combat that made it impossible to see anything at all on the screen. Slowly (it was so painfully slowly) it seemed that some the new problems with the CU were getting addressed. The SWOOSH was gone, the blinding light was gone and professions that were borked were getting revamps. Some people were so royally burned by the CU that they wouldn't be back, and I can understand that. Others, like me, were thinking, "hmm maybe this CU thing is going to be okay if they keep working on it the way they have been lately."
-Then came the Trials of Obiwan. At long last, high level new game content. When this came out, my entire guild (with few exceptions) pre-ordered. Wow, the lava planet really looked cool, and there were sooo many new quests given out by a ton of new contacts at the mining station on Mustafar. In-game items for pre-order were very popular as well. A lot of the loot items were very cool and specifically tailored to some of the many existing professions at the time. This would be a good time to see if the CU was going to work out after all....
-or...maybe not. The NGE was announced I think the day after our VISA payments for the ToOW were deemed "final". Another critical decision point: stick with the CU that we've been working so hard to de-bug and balance and see how it fares with the new content, OR change game mechanics so completely that the CU would look like a minor adjustment. This would, as we all know, include deletion of dozens of professions, skills, animations, quest content etc. etc., and it would break key game mechanics including chat, movement and combat (what else is there??)
-How anyone decided to go with the NGE instead of sticking with the CU for the new expansion I may never understand, but this was indeed a key decision point. It was also a key decision to with-hold information about the upcoming changes and to market the new exapansion as if it was made for professions that would soon be deleted. Did SOE/LA not see how people would be impacted by their communication strategy? Did they not realize how people would feel about such widespread deletion? Did they fail to consider the impact of broken chat, movement and combat systems? Did they see that they gave players the new expansion under the CU, and people were loving it, and then they took it away right after it was paid for?
-Now people, of course, were asking for a rollback to a functional system that people were enjoying, and later the rollback cries changed to requests for classic servers. Rollback and classic servers are again key decision points. SOE/LA, as we know, offered neither. They chose instead to keep the core NGE mechanics and slowly re-introduce features that had been stripped from the game by the NGE. They say that classic servers aren't a good idea,
BUT WHY AT THIS POINT WOULD THEY STILL HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE IN THEIR DECISION MAKERS OR THEIR DECISION MAKING PROCESS?
(ingredients for disaster: WoW envy, group think, confirmation bias, not understanding strengths and weaknesses of your own product, not listening to those that do understand, setting aside ethical principles for "the greater good" (which of course is really just a rationalization for acting on WoW envy)
My favorite subject. I want everyone to know that since the launch of the NGE and the debacle surrounding that (Trials of Obi Wan etc), I have made every concerted effort not to buy anything put out by LA or Sony. Games (PotBS), TV's, anything. If anyone knows how I can let them know that, that would be cool. A silent boycott is not nearly effective. I don't even need them to bring back the pre-cu. I just want a letter of their acknowledgment that the way they treated their customers was abhorrent. I want an apology.
T
You know what? At this point, that's all I would want as well. A good, heartfelt apology for all the misdirection/dishonesty especially, for releasing things that simply didn't work in key areas, and for deleting so many accomplishments and dismantling the game's community. I'd like them to acknowledge and apologize for doing these things, and for the impact these actions had on their gaming community. One dev made an attempt at an apology, but it was very watered down and included a comment about being proud to be in a company that is willing to try new things. I understand why he had to say it that way for the sake of his career probably, but it wasn't nearly as helpful as it could have been. I'd like an apology more than anything, and an end to the mind-games and spin-doctoring SOE has engaged in to try to improve its tarnished image. Honesty and contrition would go much further for image building and for healing.
The confidence level in the decision makers at SOE/LEC is beyond zero confidence. It's down to about -6 by now. EVERY decision they've made post JTL has been the wrong one.
I just had a thought.
I'd bet that a retro server would be quite a bit more successful then some people would like to admit for the simple fact that 2 years of "crying" for it would have generated a lot of curiousity from people who have heard of it but never had the chance to try it.
There does not seem to be an MMO forum that has not had it mentioned on several occasions. I'm sure most people who are active in MMO's have undoubtedly heard of pre-CU SWG by now.
I'd bet if there was a retro server available we'd see many new faces that have never played pre-CU before.
This is true. I started playing EU because of all the talk about skill boxes and sand box from this forum. I never played Pre-CU or even CU but have had enough players / forum members tell me about it so the curiosity was there. And, several SWG players, who also never played the be fores have came over to EU for the same reason. SO far, all have liked it. We have had 2, 1 from SWG beta and another day 1 vet come over to EU too.
As good as EU is, it's still not Star Wars. The IP along with these features would defiantly be a draw. I know that when EMU is completed, I'll be there also.
This is true. I started playing EU because of all the talk about skill boxes and sand box from this forum. I never played Pre-CU or even CU but have had enough players / forum members tell me about it so the curiosity was there. And, several SWG players, who also never played the be fores have came over to EU for the same reason. SO far, all have liked it. We have had 2, 1 from SWG beta and another day 1 vet come over to EU too.
As good as EU is, it's still not Star Wars. The IP along with these features would defiantly be a draw. I know that when EMU is completed, I'll be there also.
First yes i 2 would like a pre-cu server to be added, wouldn't play it but really would love to see one coming.
EU i have tried after our last ....."discussion" .....as you pointed out this awesome game you found. So i tried it, saw it was made with the CryEngine2 so had visualy high hopes, aswell seeing their website. In game i must admit it felt somewhat strange, knowing what the Cryengine can do with scenery i was sort of disappointed, especialy character movement. But..... i continue'd, met some nice people, one was offering me mentorship which i accepted but told i was only in to get a feel about the game, and that was alright with "her" i think it was a her
she looked like one. Anyway after she gave me some guidens about "sweat" i rushed of to explore the surroundings, and in time i sort of became impressed, as i notice'd i just had to get use to the scenery and not think to much what i should expect from the cryengine, so like i said became somewhat impressed with the buildings and options. Now the movement i still experiance'd as bad, did some tuning with me key's but its just the movement that sort of set me of.
The game has every ingridient i really like in it but the real thing i absolutly do not like is pay rl cash for just about everything, that is if you want to progress, sure can try and collect sweat or atleast put in a little bit of rl cash in it which i would normaly do for a subfee. But something about the way one pay's for items ingame i just do not feel comferteble doing so....not just yet + I know myself in a mmorpg so i know its best to not go into games like EU. At first one might spend something like what we spend on subfee each month but i bet most of us mmorpg players will soon feel its not enough and we always want more, that the challenge feel we get from a game, and well that challenge to get these items sort of disappears as you don't have to earn the cash by playing the game you just deposit money into hte game and take what ever you want (if skill alowed afcourse)
I'm glad you enjoy it and i'm sure it's a fine game for those who want to play under those conditions, like we mostly say each his own
This is true. I started playing EU because of all the talk about skill boxes and sand box from this forum. I never played Pre-CU or even CU but have had enough players / forum members tell me about it so the curiosity was there. And, several SWG players, who also never played the be fores have came over to EU for the same reason. SO far, all have liked it. We have had 2, 1 from SWG beta and another day 1 vet come over to EU too.
As good as EU is, it's still not Star Wars. The IP along with these features would defiantly be a draw. I know that when EMU is completed, I'll be there also.
First yes i 2 would like a pre-cu server to be added, wouldn't play it but really would love to see one coming.
EU i have tried after our last ....."discussion" .....as you pointed out this awesome game you found. So i tried it, saw it was made with the CryEngine2 so had visualy high hopes, aswell seeing their website. In game i must admit it felt somewhat strange, knowing what the Cryengine can do with scenery i was sort of disappointed, especialy character movement. But..... i continue'd, met some nice people, one was offering me mentorship which i accepted but told i was only in to get a feel about the game, and that was alright with "her" i think it was a her
she looked like one. Anyway after she gave me some guidens about "sweat" i rushed of to explore the surroundings, and in time i sort of became impressed, as i notice'd i just had to get use to the scenery and not think to much what i should expect from the cryengine, so like i said became somewhat impressed with the buildings and options. Now the movement i still experiance'd as bad, did some tuning with me key's but its just the movement that sort of set me of.
The game has every ingridient i really like in it but the real thing i absolutly do not like is pay rl cash for just about everything, that is if you want to progress, sure can try and collect sweat or atleast put in a little bit of rl cash in it which i would normaly do for a subfee. But something about the way one pay's for items ingame i just do not feel comferteble doing so....not just yet + I know myself in a mmorpg so i know its best to not go into games like EU. At first one might spend something like what we spend on subfee each month but i bet most of us mmorpg players will soon feel its not enough and we always want more, that the challenge feel we get from a game, and well that challenge to get these items sort of disappears as you don't have to earn the cash by playing the game you just deposit money into hte game and take what ever you want (if skill alowed afcourse)
I'm glad you enjoy it and i'm sure it's a fine game for those who want to play under those conditions, like we mostly say each his own
This, of couce, is the drawback of a real cash ecomony. And your right the temptation to become uber overnight is the way Mind Ark makes their $. We got 1 guy, who had a uber jedi on SWG, who now wants to put in $50, right now, to get some of the stuff he wants. But................ The large drawback to that is decay. Everything (EVERYTHING) decays in this game and if you do not have the skills built to use the item your getting, the decay makes it impossible to keep going with that item/weapon until u do build your skills. The skills seems to go a bit slow also. LOL I have went from newb, inept, poor, weak, mediocre, to beginner in the skill boxes. I am bringing up my sweat ability and can get almost 2K sweat a night now, (all in a little over a week) So I'm getting about 12 PED a night plus building my melee skill in looting the 1s who attack while sweating, I can almost offset the decay now on my sword. All with only depositing $15 (just what I would have paid SOE for a month). And I still have almost 100 PED of that left (spent a little over 50 so far).
And what they do not say, really, is the cry-engine will be implimented sometime in the near future. I have heard from players that its coming in Dec along with vehicles, helicopters, etc etc. The trailer that they have on their website is the future advancement. I figured that when they get it into the game, I'll actually be preogressed enough to get out of the newb area and enjoy it. LOL
I think u have to go into a game like this with a mindset of moderation, just like RL. I can see now that I'll get the items that I had in SWG, only no where as fast. You really need to think about the economy just about every secound in game. I'm not killing the harder creatures that take about 10 blows of the sword due to decay. The return is not there yet. But I am progressing. Last night I figured out my skills have progressed so I can kill a different creature, now, which has a more loot chance, thereby increasing, the $ I can make in game to the next small level.
Look me up, and I'll give you the few pointers that I have figured out so far. Like, you can drown most of the attacking animals to get them off of you. Oemore is the toon name. Good to have you in game. Just remember, it's free to play so you can take your time.
I've said before I would love to know the decision-making process that went into greenlighting the NGE. What data were they using and how was it obtained? What were the true goals? What were the discussions? Who objected, who concurred?
We know the results were horrible, but was the decision truly "wrong?" Was it a good decision that simply failed miserably?
Someday, we will know.
What is EU?
T
I've said before I would love to know the decision-making process that went into greenlighting the NGE. What data were they using and how was it obtained? What were the true goals? What were the discussions? Who objected, who concurred?
We know the results were horrible, but was the decision truly "wrong?" Was it a good decision that simply failed miserably?
Someday, we will know.
I've thought about what their thought process must have been, and, being a logical person, I can't really think of any rational process that led to the NGE. If they'd given it one thought they HAD to know what the reaction would be. Hell, they had a GOOD taste of it in the 3 weeks between the NGE announcement and NGE going live.
Probably the closest thing to what they were thinking that we know of comes from the posts by Jeff Freeman (Dundee) from this board.
Jeff Freeman, for those of you who don't know, is regarded as the "father of the NGE" (although a year later, after the NGE had obviously failed beyond any doubt and there was real fear on his part that his involvement would harm his career, he came here to try to weasel out of major involvement). The main concepts were his, including the crappy clickfest Benny Hill combat system.
Freeman stated that the vets "were NOT taken into consideration" with respect to the NGE. So, the NGE was created with the Devs and Producers deliberately ignoring what their EXISTING player base wanted to play. Which numbered in excess of 225,000 at that time, a number that is at least 3x higher than any sub number they've had since 75% of everyone quit soon after the NGE.
At that point, had anyone even approaching rudimentary competence of management been around, ALARM BELLS should have been going off... But SOE and LEC have always been the perfect synergy of inept management. They decided to cast aside the "couple hundred thousand geeks" they had playing for a vastly larger, simpler, less demanding player base who were causual Star Wars fans. The geeks, they though, would piss, moan, scream, then come back, they rationalized, because they'd done the same with the CU...
Add to this the most insulting, incompetent PR and marketing effort in the history of the industry (Nancy McIntyre's "uncle owen" and "reading is bad" comments), the Devs hostility towards those pissed off about the changes, and you had a recipe not only for failure, but for spectacular, catastropic, PUBLIC FAILURE.
The NGE got more press than even WOW got. And for the worst reasons possible, and in the worst light possible.
The problem with the NGE vs the CU is that, despite how major the CU alterations were, the game was STILL identifiably the same game. The NGE was literally a completely different game playing on the same graphics engine with the same locations of the old game. Which believe it or not, made it worse, because you could still see, feel, and almost touch what was, but got smacked down by what is. Add to this, the IMMENSE and unprecedented anti-marketing, with appearances on CBS News, and in the New York Times (by a writer who was a pre-CU vet with multiple accounts) there was ZERO chance of attracting any new players at all.
And it did enough to make SOE infamous as the MMO publisher, "that will screw you over without any lube without batting an eye". A reputation that they maintain to this day, as evidenced by the fact that they have to issue pre-emptive "we won't NGE this" statements with every project they get involved in or acquire, and their (foolish) partners have to rush to claim that "SOE won't have any control in gameplay". Yeah, that speaks volumes about the Industry Leader in bad reputation doesn't it? And it's not gotten any better for them even as we approach 2 years since the NGE. Not only has SWG lost most of it's subscriber base, EQ/EQ2 also have eroded.... There are emu shards that have more players than Planetside and MXO...
Simply put, they will have periods like CH6 where a portion of us get desperate enough to go back long enough to get pissed off and quit again. But that's the best they have to hope for.
Unless they did classic servers. The only reason why they don't isn't technical or legal, or even logistical, it's because the same inept moron managers who made all the wrong moves in 2005 are STILL there and in charge, and feel that doing this would be career ending for them.
Serious question: What has John Smedley accomplished in the last 3 years that makes it clear he's the best man for the job or running SOE? Ditto that with Jim Ward at LEC... LEC in many ways is worse. For years they've been used to slapping "Star Wars" on any piece of crap game and having it sell. Lately this is becoming less true.
If they brought back pre-cu it would make a profit. As for pre-cu losing sub: Of course it was every game loses them. (wow probably loses more a month than some games have.) Pre-cu also gained subs each month as well. I don't think they will bring back pre-cu servers simply because of what they did with the NGE. SOE knows they screwed their customers and they do not want to do that again even if their current customer base is half of what it was pre-nge.( I use half only as a number they may have more or less than half the pre-nge number of subscribers)
I know that many people will say why not open one or two pre-cu servers? Well that would king of be like Burger King openning one or two McDonalds. Sure both would have customers and both would turn a profit but compotion with yoursel is not a good thing.
However, if SoE ever did open pre-cu servers I would reopen my five accounts.
I don't claim to be right, I'm just posting.
http://www.entropiauniverse.com/index.var
Then you gather like a starving tribesman, because there's virtual reams of posts from all involved that the nge and the CU were all about the $OE. That LA never had a hand in any of the design, and at most told them to "Fix the game".
$OE treated SWG like Lenny did to all his furry friends. No matter how many times you told Lenny not to pet the creature so hard, he still ends up needing a new pet.
The only theory that might hold water is that LA doesn't want two versions of the game out there at the same time. While that may be true, $OE doesn't want to spend one thin dime on creating any more SWG servers, no matter what code is on it. They want to eliminate at least half the servers, many say down to 3.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Points for clever literary simile. Steinbeck FTW.
wait wait... you played the original game for 67 days and your STILL Pissed about the NGE?! rofl...
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No offense intended really but you are a funny funny guy
No offense intended really but you are a funny funny guy
SOE is obviously NOT brining back Pre-cu... not sure why people keep hanong on to their glory year of gaming. . . pre-cu was slow and had boring combat
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Besides, an MMO should have much more to it then just combat.
Besides, an MMO should have much more to it then just combat.
Yeah, I always have to laugh when people bitch that pre-CU combat was "slow and boring" when you could make combat fast and exciting by not buffing up and not putting on armor. Fighting "naked".
Combat was significantly different if you wore armor but did not buff up your secondary stats. You'd soon find yourself in a world of hurt, particularly against multiple PvE opponents. Wade into a nest of Narglatchs (one of the funnest things to do as a TKM) unbuffed and see how frantic things could be.
Buffing up the secondaries made combat prolonged, mainly because your ability to use specials wasn't subject to action depletion because your secondaries refreshed your main pools almost instantly. All three of them.
We had a lot of player events on Ahazi where the rules were: Only use CDEFs, no buffs, no armor. You know, the way the game was played right after launch. Combat was fast, exciting, and fun.
NGE combat can be every bit as slow and boring as pre CU combat is. All you have to do is watch the Jedi asshats duelling in Theed to confirm this. One on one PvP is every bit as tedious and drawn out as it was before. There are just fewer buttons to mash. Fewer options to make a breakthrough.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Significantly different if you wore armor?
Hell, you were lucky if you could wear a complete set because of the encumbrance.
Regardless, combat was incredible fast, exciting, and challenging when played without buffs. It was an absolutely superb system of which no other MMO has even come close to IMO.
I did like to fight either unbuffed with armour (you had to get those type of armour tailored for you, since 99% of the armour wasn't crafted with encumbrance in mind, but if you did, they was very good unbuffed too), or buffed without armour. It was fun.
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Leemeg.