Whether an aspect of a game is "better" or "worse" than that of another game, is purely and utterly subjective. I'd prefer Horizon's or Ryzom's crafting, but I prefer LOTRO's storytelling, for instance. WoW's, Lotro's and EQ2's combat mechanics are not very different from each other at all tbh. Neocron - now THAT was different. Compared to that these 3 are identical triplets. BTW - I have never ever been killed by a mob which was alone and lower than +3 levels above my toon... how is that possible if you are not AFK? I wonder... (and I have 5 alts, all different classes.... I can handle 2 mobs in the same time if they are 1+ level above me, or 3 of them if they are one level lower....). The key is that you actualy learn how to play - true for all games and for all classes. DB
I agree the story is much better in LOTRO...but it has already been written in stone, and as well, we know how it ends. The sense of adventure is limited in the fact that your on a path to the ending...
As well, each classes quests all end up in the same place...the variety is limited...for now...at least until new expansions arrive...and hopefully new adventuring area's. But, having to go through the same instances and quests for each player or alt, gets boring after a couple of times..of course Guild Wars is also guilty of this...unless you buy the other packaged games..WoW and EQ2 each have unique area's to adventure in..
I have heard that Ryzom's crafting is top notch, but then has little to no content to back it up. So, the crafting feels empty. Even WoW's easy styled crafting is more rewarding than LOTRO.
As to the mob kills. It has nothing to do with AFK...it is the fact that the Bear's in the game (not all mob's, but one single silly mob) has the ability to bring you to your knee's compared to other wildlife....depending on your class as well. Minstrel...ok...heal like crazy, but have the dice rolls go wrong on a Captain or Ranger or the squishy Loremaster and your toast...this is shoddy balancing in my opinion.
But, your right...it is subjective, and by the multitude of posts here, I think that "subjective" leaning is toward people not being happy with various aspects of the game. This can be said of all games though. I got bored of WoW, so do a lot of people...I finally got done with GW due to it having an ending...thats ok..but, a lot of people here seem to be getting done with LOTRO a lot quicker (WoW is usually fun for 6 months to a year)..Lackluster is the main word I use to describe LOTRO...once you get past the pretty graphics, there is not a lot available for the long haul player...(yet)
Cheers!
(PS: I did notice no argument over the UI..I think that is pretty much a given that the UI is less than adequate, and has it's own issues...like locked in toolbar..no resolution dependent resizing, etc.)
Cheers! (PS: I did notice no argument over the UI..I think that is pretty much a given that the UI is less than adequate, and has it's own issues...like locked in toolbar..no resolution dependent resizing, etc.)
I did not change anything in the UI, as it was OK for me by default. I can get used to most UI's quickly, to be honest I never changed any UI in any game.
It is something that is totally irrelevant for me: the same can be told about character customization - i don't give a rusted penny about it either.
THIS is exactly why I am saying that all games are liked or disliked purely based on subjective experiences and opinions of _individuals_.
There is no such thing as better or worse in these senses, only people who will either like this or that, or both or none...
The only objective thing about games is stability and performance - again, these can (in a few cases) also depend on individual configs - but they are not subjective, at least
Also - subjective is not used against people who dislike this or any other game. My liking of lotro, for instance is also mostly subjective. Heck, it would be even tough for me to point my finger on what exactly I do like - besides the stories (and NO, you and me both perfectly know that we are NOT playing the fellowship story, but _parallell_ ones in the same times) and the atmosphere. How do you define atmoshphere? I guess you might see my point now. Each to his own taste. EQ2 and Lotro and WoW and Ryzom and Neocron and 9Dragons and Horizons and GW - they are all nice games and I like them all. Too bad there is no time to play all
Also I know lotro is not my last MMO to play, that is for sure.... for how long will it last- not sure. But at this moment it mostly gives me the best time that i can spend, so why not....
BTW bear debuff looks tough, but I don't think they are deadly at all. Also, my main is a "squishy" loremaster, but I soloed it to 44 so far, sometimes killing 3-4 mobs of close to my level in the same time - oh well, "March of the Ents" is a nice trait
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Basically speaking...my post is in answer to the OP, and as such, have stated opinions based on my experiences ("are YOU" in the OP's titlebeing the keyword here) and as well, what others have also noted...so sharing data for the OP to review.
Hopefully the OP is satisfied with the answers received, and it helps him or her make a decision for whatever they wished to know.
This may all be for naught as the OP may have their own opinion of the game, and just wanted to see how everyone else feels..
MY opinion is
LOTRO is a lackluster title using mechanics already done well in other games currently available.
I left LOTRO due to these lackluster mechanics. And will watch and wait to see if any advancements are made in these mechanics to make it shine compared to these other games which are already available..
I wouldn't leave LOTRO for another title, it's the best out right now..It's brand new so they still will be adding alot to it but I mean come on you got to give them some time
But if LOTRO shut down for some odd reason and I had to choose another...I would play EQ2 until the Re-Release of Vanguard at the end of the year, while I wait for one of the new titles in development to come out
I agree they will not shut it down...the game is not the rock bottom like some other MMO's (Vanguard...*cough*...which is also going)...but I also would not say it is the best...other games do things so much better..
Combat = Guild Wars, WoW or EQ2
Crafting = EQ2 hands down the best
UI = WoW or EQ2
Performance = WoW or Guild Wars...
And until I see housing...again that goes to EQ2...
So, until some new updates go in to add something new to the genre...LOTRO will just be a stepchild to all of the above titles.
Cheers!
Uses undefended subjective opinion to counter undefended subjective opinion...brilliant in its symmetry. Though sadly unoriginal for this board.
As for me, no I'm not going anywhere. Agree, the gold spammers are annoying. But I'm having tons of fun overall. Also really looking forward to the patch next month.
Why would these opinions be subjective...
You do understand the meanings of all the words that you strung together here?
Let's do a little excercise. Which of the following statements is least likely to piss off someone that likes game X? Which one is most likely?
A. I personally don't like game X. Features X, Y, and Z blow, imo.
B. I don't like game X at all. Features X, Y, and Z suck. You really should be playing games A or B.
C. Game X sucks because features X, Y, and Z suck. Game X is far inferior to games A, and B. This is not a subjective opinion, it is an objective fact.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Let's do a little excercise. Which of the following statements is least likely to piss off someone that likes game X? Which one is most likely?
So, your belief is that due to the fact I "pissed" someone off, my statements are subjective...
I am sorry if your feelings are hurt but, because I am on an LOTRO forum answering a post I now am suppose to pretend that this game is something it is not as that is the belief of some of the posters here?
It states in the definition for "Subjective" : QUOTE - They are unique to the person experiencing them...
So, for me to be subjective, then I would have to be the only one who believes my allegations
The opinions stated are my own, but also have been stated by others as well..even within this one post...
I can do what has been done before and post various other reviews and statements to the facts I have listed...so, it is not "subjective" as it would ONLY be my own opinion..it is not.
But, they are opinions, and you may take them or leave them..I have no qualms with this. Again, my post is strictly for the OP, and I hope it has given him an "open" minded thought on each various aspect of LOTRO...
Well, considering that I just started playing, im in no hurry to leave. Im only level 18 at the moment and having some pretty good fun with it.
The problem with people quitting games, is the fact that the same mmorpg formula is recycled through out 99% of the genre right now and people are getting bored. It's pretty much the same as playing a single player console rpg for instance. You are going to finish it once and move on to a new one. Sticking with one mmorpg for it's entire lifespan and not trying any of the other games out there boggles my mind, and I could never do it. I currenty subscribe to 3 mmorpg's so I can change up what I am playing all the time. I get so bloody bored playing the same one all the time, but I don't want to quit cause its still fun, when I want to come back to it later.
The 3 I am playing are:
Final Fantasy XI
Everquest 2
Lord of the Rings Online
I've tried pretty much every other mmo on the market and those 3 are the only ones worth my time. One thing that makes me play lotr over wow, is the quest system. Lotr's quest are soooooo much more interesting. WoW has waaaaay too many "go kill 10 of these and bring me back 10 of these" quests. It burned me out.
I quit a couple weeks ago although I hadnt logged in for probably 2 weeks before that. Overall, I had a very good experience playing. I did not read through this entire thread but I did see one guy/gal quit because there was too much solo. Thats actually, the exact opposite reason I quit. There were many, many group quests, including of course the Storyline quests.
Due to my limited and constantly changing play schedule, IE I dont have much free time, it was nearly impossible to get a lot of these quests done. Especially the chained ones, I would get lucky and see a group forming, or have time to form my own for one, then realize it goes into another, then another...I have to leave, then am stuck with a part left that most people just bang out in a chain and never look back.
I think I also just got a bit bored of the mechanics, which is just MMO burnout for me. I found myself playing online FPS games more and more as the matches are quick, I can find one in a matter of minutes, and if I need to leave in the middle, I dont screw over anyone at all.
I contemplated giving Vanguard another try, maybe EQII again, I even thought about downloading the trial for WoW as its been a couple years since I played, but everything came back to the same issues. In WoW you can do a lot with a limited schedule if you dont care about raiding, which I had more than my fair share of a couple years ago, but meh, my retail disks were destroyed in a flood a little while back and I didnt feel like buying it with the expansion pack knowing I would probably get sick of it again really quick.
In case anyone is actually reading this, of course the disks were not really destroyed by the water, but they were in the box with the manual and all that good stuff and well, the water did some pretty nasty things to the entire package before I got them out. It wasnt worth even trying to get the disks free of the cardboard at that point for fear of catching some mold virus, heh.
So...now I am waiting on Hellgate London which isnt a MMO really, but thats not really a bad thing right now, at least to me. Still watching Warhammer though, probably by then I will be out of my MMO burnout.
Let's do a little excercise. Which of the following statements is least likely to piss off someone that likes game X? Which one is most likely?
So, your belief is that due to the fact I "pissed" someone off, my statements are subjective...
I am sorry if your feelings are hurt but, because I am on an LOTRO forum answering a post I now am suppose to pretend that this game is something it is not as that is the belief of some of the posters here?
It states in the definition for "Subjective" : QUOTE - They are unique to the person experiencing them...
So, for me to be subjective, then I would have to be the only one who believes my allegations
The opinions stated are my own, but also have been stated by others as well..even within this one post...
I can do what has been done before and post various other reviews and statements to the facts I have listed...so, it is not "subjective" as it would ONLY be my own opinion..it is not.
But, they are opinions, and you may take them or leave them..I have no qualms with this. Again, my post is strictly for the OP, and I hope it has given him an "open" minded thought on each various aspect of LOTRO...
More like "Food for thought"...
Good luck...and cheers!
Actually my post had two points, which I admit were somewhat weakly connected (I can see this would cause some confusion). In any case you manged to miss both of them. I'm going to take it on faith that you are not simply being argumentative, and explain myself in a bit more detail
I'm not trying to say that you don't have the right to have an opinion different from mine or to express it, or that (?!?) an opinion is subjective or not depending on whether it upsets someone. My points were:
1. Opinions are by definition subjective. They express individual beliefs, which may or may not be shared with other individuals. Thus your statement was internally inconsistent.
2. If you state your opinions as if they are objective facts, you should not be surprised when those statements upset others that have different opinions. I'm not saying you don't have the right to do it, but don't be surprised when you get called out.
No you have never said directly "My opinion of LoTRO is fact" but statements like :
Originally posted by openedge1:
"Why would these opinions be subjective... each of these area's have been commented on hundreds of times by not just myself, but so many others as well."
are only a step removed from it.
I've been as clear as I know how to be. Have a good thread folks.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
2. If you state your opinions as if they are objective facts, you should not be surprised when those statements upset others that have different opinions. I'm not saying you don't have the right to do it, but don't be surprised when you get called out. No you have never said directly "My opinion of LoTRO is fact" but statements like : Originally posted by openedge1: "Why would these opinions be subjective... each of these area's have been commented on hundreds of times by not just myself, but so many others as well." are only a step removed from it.
I think that is the reason for the statement I make...
Subjective is mainly noted by this quote : QUOTE - They are unique to the person experiencing them...
These opinions are not unique...they have been stated by many various blogs..reviews, posts here...
So, like you, I am not trying to be argumentative, but make the note that these "opinions" are expressed by many. But, the fact that I reiterate them here, I am being "undefended" and "subjective" ...this is incorrect.
QUOTE: Undefended subjective opinion...
So, by your reasoning these "opinions" are not backed up by any type of data and are only my own...
Yes...my opinions, and opinions of others, which if we had a majority rule would be actually be fact...and would be objective...
For example, majority rules that the graphics look very good ...that is objective.
But, it was never stated they were "Facts", it was the opinion of many, and NOT undefended...and also not subjective if experienced by others...For example we could do the whole "Faith" vs "Science" discussion....and that will be argued as subjective or objective..
I am disappointed that these threads get derailed by these types of long tirades by each of us about what statements were made, why they are correct or incorrect. We are totally trying to answer the OP, each in our own way. And your opinion is one way (which I have not argued against) and my opinion another way (which you use condescending terms to mask my opinion)...what makes your opinion any better than my own?
So, lets be on our merry way...we have each stated our opinions here, and I will not quibble anymore over your use of opinion just as I would hope that you would show me the same respect.
I will officially leave this thread....and thank you for letting me have my own say in this matter.
I thought LotRO was an interesting and fun game. I was mostly surprised by the graphics which I really enjoyed. The questing and grinding my tailor became a bit boring as in most MMOs, but overall I liked the game.
I did quit but not because I hadn't liked the game anymore. I had an issue with customer service which I did not like their comments on (and I won't go into detail), so I chose to leave the game.
I was on Meneldor (sp?) and it was an ok server. Not to hard to get a group going. Mostly pleasant... although I did get a lot of gold spam.
I was a beta tester from early on in the closed beta, I bought the game the day it was released, I am a HUGE fan of Tolkien's, and I am a HUGE fan of MMO's so one would think that a LoTR MMO would be the end-all, be-all MMO for me right? Wrong!
To be perfectly honest I don't even know what, specifically, it was that caused me to grow bored with it. When I think about it I really enjoyed the game but over a relatively short amount of time I simply lost the urge to log-in and progress. I thought the Deed-Trait system of progression/character customization was really well thought-out and implemented, combat wasn't horrible, it wasn't great but it wasn't bad either, there were lots of quests which delved pretty deep into the world of Middle-Earth, and I got to explore a world that I had explored in my imagination so many time before, there was actually an over-arching story to the game which was nice, and it was based and built around the LoTR books so the game was steeped in some of my favorite lore ever. So what the hell was the problem
Well, I think that overall the game was just too similar to almost every other MMO I've ever played and didn't do enough to set itself apart from the crowd. It just didn't do enough to grab you and keep you, and that, I think, was due to a combination of the games pacing, and the fact that I had already been through the events of LoTR countless times through reading the books.
I liked the game, just not enough to stick with it for very long.
Originally posted by openedge1 So, lets be on our merry way...we have each stated our opinions here, and I will not quibble anymore over your use of opinion just as I would hope that you would show me the same respect.
Totally agreed. My apologies for any negativity I may have added to your day.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Almost everyone here is comparing a very YOUNG game (One that is growing by an entire land or two ever 2 months), to games that already have years, or multiple expansions to them.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
but make the note that these "opinions" are expressed by many. But, the fact that I reiterate them here, I am being "undefended" and "subjective" ...this is incorrect.
...
Yes...my opinions, and opinions of others, which if we had a majority rule would be actually be fact...and would be objective...
...
For example, majority rules that the graphics look very good ...that is objective.
You are confused as to the meaning of the term "objective". By definition, "objective" means something is true despite anyone's opinion on the matter. If a majority agrees on something, what you have is "consensus", which may or may not have any bearing on "objective truth".
For instance, the scientific community believed that the heavens revolved around the earth for 1400 years. Virtually every learned scholar agreed. That was "consensus", not "objectivity".
It is impossible to have an "objective" measure on matters of taste, such as what constitutes an enjoyable interface, and enjoyable storyline, and enjoyable combat system. Those are all issues of taste, and no matter how large the consensus, remain "subjective".
Reasonable people find it irritating when others argue their personal preferences as if they were objective fact. Your tastes do not equal objective truth. That a majority agrees with you does not make your tastes any more objective, just more popular.
I'm still playing LOTRO, and currently my wife and I find it acceptably enjoyable despite the various elements that are identical to other games, etc. As for myself, I have long grown weary of games such as EQ1, EQ2, WoW, LOTRO, and all the others that rely on the large group - raid paradigm employing the "Holy Trinity" (Tank/Healer/DPS) model.
It's old, it sucks, and the gamespace has changed. People want to play with their spouse, or their kid, or a couple good friends. It's not all about hanging around with 38 other strangers for six hours in a dungeon anymore. We aren't in High School anymore.
but make the note that these "opinions" are expressed by many. But, the fact that I reiterate them here, I am being "undefended" and "subjective" ...this is incorrect.
...
Yes...my opinions, and opinions of others, which if we had a majority rule would be actually be fact...and would be objective...
...
For example, majority rules that the graphics look very good ...that is objective.
You are confused as to the meaning of the term "objective". By definition, "objective" means something is true despite anyone's opinion on the matter. If a majority agrees on something, what you have is "consensus", which may or may not have any bearing on "objective truth".
For instance, the scientific community believed that the heavens revolved around the earth for 1400 years. Virtually every learned scholar agreed. That was "consensus", not "objectivity".
It is impossible to have an "objective" measure on matters of taste, such as what constitutes an enjoyable interface, and enjoyable storyline, and enjoyable combat system. Those are all issues of taste, and no matter how large the consensus, remain "subjective".
Reasonable people find it irritating when others argue their personal preferences as if they were objective fact. Your tastes do not equal objective truth. That a majority agrees with you does not make your tastes any more objective, just more popular.
I'm still playing LOTRO, and currently my wife and I find it acceptably enjoyable despite the various elements that are identical to other games, etc. As for myself, I have long grown weary of games such as EQ1, EQ2, WoW, LOTRO, and all the others that rely on the large group - raid paradigm employing the "Holy Trinity" (Tank/Healer/DPS) model.
It's old, it sucks, and the gamespace has changed. People want to play with their spouse, or their kid, or a couple good friends. It's not all about hanging around with 38 other strangers for six hours in a dungeon anymore. We aren't in High School anymore.
QFT!!
Cheers mate, this was the best, clearest way to describe what 2 of us were already trying to explain him... if he still doesn't understand, that only proves the intention of trolling - let's hope not.
BTW, back to topic: I have actually started to play less and less lotro for now -I have levelled my main to 44, and have 4 alts - 30,25, and two 15's - I guess I just had a little overdose of the same quests . In the meantim (and maybe till the next update comes out) I'll be playing 9dragons or something other F2P as I still can't find a p2p game that I would switch to.
My only grudge with Lotro's general gameflow, that at this moment it is not very exciting to run alts through the 15+ content, as its mostly the same once one gets to Bree...
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I wouldn't leave LOTRO for another title, it's the best out right now..It's brand new so they still will be adding alot to it but I mean come on you got to give them some time
But if LOTRO shut down for some odd reason and I had to choose another...I would play EQ2 until the Re-Release of Vanguard at the end of the year, while I wait for one of the new titles in development to come out
I agree they will not shut it down...the game is not the rock bottom like some other MMO's (Vanguard...*cough*...which is also going)...but I also would not say it is the best...other games do things so much better..
Combat = Guild Wars, WoW or EQ2
Crafting = EQ2 hands down the best
UI = WoW or EQ2
Performance = WoW or Guild Wars...
And until I see housing...again that goes to EQ2...
So, until some new updates go in to add something new to the genre...LOTRO will just be a stepchild to all of the above titles.
Cheers!
Uses undefended subjective opinion to counter undefended subjective opinion...brilliant in its symmetry. Though sadly unoriginal for this board.
As for me, no I'm not going anywhere. Agree, the gold spammers are annoying. But I'm having tons of fun overall. Also really looking forward to the patch next month.
Why would these opinions be subjective...especially when the titles listed have a stable ground on which to stand. And each of these area's have been commented on hundreds of times by not just myself, but so many others as well.
Maybe because... oh I don't know... Opinions, by their nature are subjective? You know, that just might be a reason. I can't believe you'd even pose that kind of a challenge. Was that a flaw in phrasing, or an unfettered display of ignorance and/or arrogance on your part?
That a lot of people share an opinion makes it no less so - it's still opinion, and still subjective. A lot of people also enjoy and think it's a great game - also opinion and also subjective.
Examples....
Combat : I know in the games I have listed which, (in your opinion), are better...if I go against a mob that is at least 2 levels below me, I will not die...period..LOTRO, you may just die from a Bear that is 2 levels below you, as it has broken your armor, in a stacking attack, that you as a player CANNOT do....Which would be the better combat system?
So, a game that gives you a higher rate of victory = better game. Got it.
Funny, I fight bears that are 2 levels above me and do fine. At close range... with a Hunter. Maybe you just weren't playing very well against them? And 2 levels below you doesn't guarantee a victory. This is the case in just about any MMO I play. Is there a better chance of victory? Sure, is it enough to guarantee a victory? Nope. Things can always go really well for the mob, or just really poorly for you.
UI : I am sorry, but (in your opinion) the control of your interface is so much more in depth in EQ2 or WoW...EQ2...move anything ANYWHERE...toolbars, icons, sideways, change font sizes, etc...WoW, totally change everything..LOTRO...no font sizing in the journal, or bags...toolbar MUST stay at the bottom.
Again, subjective. Some people are annoyed by feeling like they have to "rearrange everything". I've seen people say it was laziness on the devs part to not come up with a good interface that works well and make the players do it. Their opinion, of course. But, still, enough to underscore the point that however strongly you feel about the interface in a given game, it's still your opinion, not fact.
Performance : What is incorrect here...this is definitely not subjective, as these titles were made a while ago, and I would even put Guild Wars graphics against LOTRO in beauty and originality..and they perform well..
Guild Wars is a beautiful game and I'll agree with you that, in my opinion, the characters and environments are more elaborate and attractive. But then they're allowed that freedom in GW because it's their IP. There is nothing that existed prior to its creation that defined how it was supposed to look. You (in general) can prefer one over the other, just like someone might prefer pepperoni over sausage on their pizza, but a preference for one doesn't make the other less inferior. Again.. it's personal opinion.
As for performance... I don't have the issues you have described in LoTRO - the seemingly constant hiccups and such. I have the settings almost at max and am *not* on a bleeding edge machine. I get hiccups for a couple moments when I enter open, populated areas and the game is loading everything; then it smooths out. It's worth noting, though, that even in Guild Wars, which I also run at or near max settings, I get hiccups when populated areas are loading in as well, about on par with what I experience in LoTRO.
I will assume your comment comes from the crafting note I made. This was a simple thought as well. I can either
A: Stand around and watch my character make the umpteenth millionth hide, as there is NO interactivity.
Again... personal preference. Some people enjoy that. You don't, and that's okay. It doesn't make it bad; just not for you, personally.
B: Be prepared to use my skills, to master my craft, as I create a beautiful pristine item, that I worked on to make...
I think I've agreed in another post that for me, EQ2 has the better crafting system of the games you've mentioned. It's an actual mini-game. There are seemingly almost as many "techniques" as there are people who do craft in that game. Some are pro-active with using the skills, some are reactive. In any case, again... That's my opinion of it. I know people who can't stand EQ2's crafting system, find it too involved for their liking, and stay the hell away from it. In their minds, they want to be able to craft stuff, but they don't want to stand there clicking buttons non-stop to do so. So even there, it boils down to opinion.
I don't know about you...but, I think I see what I would rather be doing....
These are undefended? Try to defend the issues noted for LOTRO...they are silly problems really..but that is why the previous titles HAVE done them better. LOTRO copied, and should have improved...but where exactly did they improve?
Undefended? Perhaps not - again, the'yre opinions. Unreasonable comparisons? Absolutely.
You're comparing a 5 or so month old game with games with games that have had 3 years or more to grow and improve. Yeah. Solid comparison, that.
All the games you mentioned had their own share of glitches and issues when they first launched as well, which persisted for several months into their lives.
Heck..I can list off a number of issues with EQ2... Ready?
I remember EQ2 randomly crashing on a regular basis for many people for quite a while - and this was around a year into its life-cycle. Even more recent - Last time I played the game, as recent as a couple months ago, fish still swam up and out and stayed above the water. Flocks of birds still flew in a straight line, straight into the ground. Shooting stars still shot up *from* the ground into the sky. Trying to run while in the middle of any other action still resulted in your character sliding across the ground, feet stationary, while completing that action. Griphons still glitched and sometimes you'd be "frozen" at the landing pad, requiring you to restart the game. Sometimes the griphon doesn't even show up and you're flying through the air unassisted, in a sitting position. That's just a handful of examples; I have more I can list. This is after around 3 years into the life-span of a game you keep holding up as an example to criticize LoTRO's glitches after only several months on the market.
Point is - no MMO is ever glitch free; especially not when they're first launched, and even - as illustrated above - after a few years. So, please, give it up on those types of comparisons. Again, I realize they're convenient and difficult for you to pass up, but they really aren't nearly as rock-solid as you seem to believe them to be.
You don't like the game. Great! You're just as entitled to your opinions as any one else. You just need to learn to express them as such and stop trying to portray them as fact - as you do on a regular basis.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Is already clear the direction the game will go in. They want to keep it all as basic as possible and veer towards the wow/evercrap model of levelling up and then repeating raids for gear. Already only 5 months after release the ex-wow raid boyz are crying because the raid drops arent x100 better than crafted and that the raids dont require 40 people. I dont doubt for a minute that in a years time,itll still be going strong,but by then I fear it will be lord of the raids:online and nothing else.
They have an opportunity with the traits and destiny perks systems to have a very good charatcer customization method,but itll only ever be likely to be as it is now, i.e crap and very pidgeon holed. No general traits like extra healing or passive defense,no extra physical attack traits other than racial,no crafting or riding traits,the virtues arent even all that great anyway.
The crafting could be great,the way you make crit items by adding different components could open up all sorts of ways to customize your stats,but again itll probably never happen. no doubt itll be pointless levelling up crafting as more raid gear comes in.
This would have been a great game ,without sounding like some of the bores on here (or boars in lotro case :P ) for a sandbox type of game,with player run markets,lots of varied crafting options;imagine being able to set up a stall in a big market in breeland to sell your vegetables,or being able to rear an animal whilst growing your pipeweed on one of the many farms in the shire. instead we'll probably see more raids.
Im looking forward to seeing the housing,but the more it slowly morphs into world or evercrapcraft the less im inclined to stick around.
The only other options sadly are everturd 2 and lolguard,both of which i regret spending my ££ on. Hoping on a certain beta game for my enjoyment now...
waiting to see book 11 then quitting again. Is already clear the direction the game will go in. They want to keep it all as basic as possible and veer towards the wow/evercrap model of levelling up and then repeating raids for gear. Already only 5 months after release the ex-wow raid boyz are crying because the raid drops arent x100 better than crafted and that the raids dont require 40 people. I dont doubt for a minute that in a years time,itll still be going strong,but by then I fear it will be lord of the raids:online and nothing else. They have an opportunity with the traits and destiny perks systems to have a very good charatcer customization method,but itll only ever be likely to be as it is now, i.e crap and very pidgeon holed. No general traits like extra healing or passive defense,no extra physical attack traits other than racial,no crafting or riding traits,the virtues arent even all that great anyway. The crafting could be great,the way you make crit items by adding different components could open up all sorts of ways to customize your stats,but again itll probably never happen. no doubt itll be pointless levelling up crafting as more raid gear comes in. This would have been a great game ,without sounding like some of the bores on here (or boars in lotro case :P ) for a sandbox type of game,with player run markets,lots of varied crafting options;imagine being able to set up a stall in a big market in breeland to sell your vegetables,or being able to rear an animal whilst growing your pipeweed on one of the many farms in the shire. instead we'll probably see more raids. Im looking forward to seeing the housing,but the more it slowly morphs into world or evercrapcraft the less im inclined to stick around. The only other options sadly are everturd 2 and lolguard,both of which i regret spending my ££ on. Hoping on a certain beta game for my enjoyment now...
Ouch...wow...say it like it is man...now, lets see if the LOTRO posting police on this forum slam you like they do me everytime I say something about their precious title...
Whining raiders have defecated on every game to date. What makes you think this will be any different with LOTRO. They're already caving in and adding more raid bullshit. Everytime these stupid developers cave in to the hardcore demand, game's go downhill fast, sure they retain a good 200K to 400K, but usually lose twice that much in casuals who leave due to the hardcore changes.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
waiting to see book 11 then quitting again. Is already clear the direction the game will go in. They want to keep it all as basic as possible and veer towards the wow/evercrap model of levelling up and then repeating raids for gear. Already only 5 months after release the ex-wow raid boyz are crying because the raid drops arent x100 better than crafted and that the raids dont require 40 people. I dont doubt for a minute that in a years time,itll still be going strong,but by then I fear it will be lord of the raids:online and nothing else. I was pretty worried when they added the first raid instance too. So far i think they are handling it Ok, because A. all of the raid gear can be obtained as rare drops from world mobs and B. The very best crafted gear is at least on par with raid drops. It seems like the devs realize that not many of us are interested in playing Lord of the Raids Online, but we'll see what they do in the next few patches. They have an opportunity with the traits and destiny perks systems to have a very good charatcer customization method,but itll only ever be likely to be as it is now, i.e crap and very pidgeon holed. No general traits like extra healing or passive defense,no extra physical attack traits other than racial,no crafting or riding traits,the virtues arent even all that great anyway. I disagree that characters are currently "very pigeonholed." At least for most classes several different trait loadouts are perfectly viable, and you have to make some real choices (though customization is certainly not on par with games like UO or CoH, if that's what you meant). However, I totally agree that the trait system has unrealized potential. I'd say I'm generally happy with class and racial traits. However, the general traits (i.e., virtues) in game are overall pretty "meh" and I think being able to slot things like improved riding or enhanced crafting crits instead or in addition would be wonderful. The Legendary traits also range pretty widely from "awesome!" to "wtf?," I hope they do some more work on these.
The crafting could be great,the way you make crit items by adding different components could open up all sorts of ways to customize your stats,but again itll probably never happen. no doubt itll be pointless levelling up crafting as more raid gear comes in. Agreed, it would be nice if we could customize the stats on objects that we make. Hope that future raid gear doesn't make all the work I've done on my crafting obsolete,but i guess we'll see.
As an aside, two of the worst MMOs I've played recently, both allow meaningful customization (irony!). In PSU you can switch around what damage type a weapon does by changing the ingredients when you craft a one. And in EQOA you can totally customize any item you make. You craft a base item which, depending on what ingredients you use, can have any stats you want. For example, if for some insane reason you wnt to craft yourself a full suit of +Intelligence platemail so that your warrier can run around yelling "Look at me! I'm a giant gimptard!" you're perfectly free to do it. Of course you can also put in usefull stats like Strength and Stamina or defensive procs if you feel like it ;-P It's too bad that you have to play games that pretty much utterly bite (imo) to get to these crafting systems. This would have been a great game ,without sounding like some of the bores on here (or boars in lotro case :P ) for a sandbox type of game,with player run markets,lots of varied crafting options;imagine being able to set up a stall in a big market in breeland to sell your vegetables,or being able to rear an animal whilst growing your pipeweed on one of the many farms in the shire. instead we'll probably see more raids. If "sandbox" means we would have gotten UO with a LoTRO skin, I can't say I agree with you. LoTR is all about stories and setting, and I think it lends itself very well to a quest driven game. We at least agree in that adding tons more raid content is about the last thing in the world they should be looking at given the playerbase this game attracts. Im looking forward to seeing the housing,but the more it slowly morphs into world or evercrapcraft the less im inclined to stick around. The only other options sadly are everturd 2 and lolguard,both of which i regret spending my ££ on. Hoping on a certain beta game for my enjoyment now...
I actually agree that most of the things you suggest would make LoTRO a better game, and I too have no intention of sticking around if the decide to turn this into Lord of the Raids Online. However, so far it seems to me that the devs "get it." We'll have to wait and see.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Ouch...wow...say it like it is man...now, lets see if the LOTRO posting police on this forum slam you like they do me everytime I say something about their precious title... It HUURRTTSSS us Preciousssss PS: Good post also...no holds barred!
Nobody have slammed you or will slam you for any honest negative opinion/experience you might write about LOTRO or any other game, as long as you're not trying to show it as an objective fact. All of us has negative opininons about one or more aspects of this game (too). It all depends on your true intention, how you package it . Iffymack's post is quite intelligent, and has very good points. No irritating, trolling "I know it all and it sucks" attitude. Read it again
Chill out, and please don't post flamebaits.
Thanks
Back to topic: I have now returned to 9dragons - I know it's an eastern F2P, not even the best one, and it's basically a MASSIVE grindfest - but shockingly, I am enjoying it Normally I hate mob grinding, but there is so little of that in LOTRO (not even good for traits for me, since my main is a Loremaster)... quite interesting. I wil probably run away screaming from it in a week, and not go back for another 5 months - this kind of "signals" a behaviour pattern.
I wouldn't be surprised to see many "vets" coming back to LOTRO in the future... this has happened to EQ2 on a _massive_ scale. We just have to wait and see...
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Comments
I agree the story is much better in LOTRO...but it has already been written in stone, and as well, we know how it ends. The sense of adventure is limited in the fact that your on a path to the ending...
As well, each classes quests all end up in the same place...the variety is limited...for now...at least until new expansions arrive...and hopefully new adventuring area's. But, having to go through the same instances and quests for each player or alt, gets boring after a couple of times..of course Guild Wars is also guilty of this...unless you buy the other packaged games..WoW and EQ2 each have unique area's to adventure in..
I have heard that Ryzom's crafting is top notch, but then has little to no content to back it up. So, the crafting feels empty. Even WoW's easy styled crafting is more rewarding than LOTRO.
As to the mob kills. It has nothing to do with AFK...it is the fact that the Bear's in the game (not all mob's, but one single silly mob) has the ability to bring you to your knee's compared to other wildlife....depending on your class as well. Minstrel...ok...heal like crazy, but have the dice rolls go wrong on a Captain or Ranger or the squishy Loremaster and your toast...this is shoddy balancing in my opinion.
But, your right...it is subjective, and by the multitude of posts here, I think that "subjective" leaning is toward people not being happy with various aspects of the game. This can be said of all games though. I got bored of WoW, so do a lot of people...I finally got done with GW due to it having an ending...thats ok..but, a lot of people here seem to be getting done with LOTRO a lot quicker (WoW is usually fun for 6 months to a year)..Lackluster is the main word I use to describe LOTRO...once you get past the pretty graphics, there is not a lot available for the long haul player...(yet)
Cheers!
(PS: I did notice no argument over the UI..I think that is pretty much a given that the UI is less than adequate, and has it's own issues...like locked in toolbar..no resolution dependent resizing, etc.)
I did not change anything in the UI, as it was OK for me by default. I can get used to most UI's quickly, to be honest I never changed any UI in any game.
It is something that is totally irrelevant for me: the same can be told about character customization - i don't give a rusted penny about it either.
THIS is exactly why I am saying that all games are liked or disliked purely based on subjective experiences and opinions of _individuals_.
There is no such thing as better or worse in these senses, only people who will either like this or that, or both or none...
The only objective thing about games is stability and performance - again, these can (in a few cases) also depend on individual configs - but they are not subjective, at least
Also - subjective is not used against people who dislike this or any other game. My liking of lotro, for instance is also mostly subjective. Heck, it would be even tough for me to point my finger on what exactly I do like - besides the stories (and NO, you and me both perfectly know that we are NOT playing the fellowship story, but _parallell_ ones in the same times) and the atmosphere. How do you define atmoshphere? I guess you might see my point now. Each to his own taste. EQ2 and Lotro and WoW and Ryzom and Neocron and 9Dragons and Horizons and GW - they are all nice games and I like them all. Too bad there is no time to play all
Also I know lotro is not my last MMO to play, that is for sure.... for how long will it last- not sure. But at this moment it mostly gives me the best time that i can spend, so why not....
BTW bear debuff looks tough, but I don't think they are deadly at all. Also, my main is a "squishy" loremaster, but I soloed it to 44 so far, sometimes killing 3-4 mobs of close to my level in the same time - oh well, "March of the Ents" is a nice trait
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Basically speaking...my post is in answer to the OP, and as such, have stated opinions based on my experiences ("are YOU" in the OP's title being the keyword here) and as well, what others have also noted...so sharing data for the OP to review.
Hopefully the OP is satisfied with the answers received, and it helps him or her make a decision for whatever they wished to know.
This may all be for naught as the OP may have their own opinion of the game, and just wanted to see how everyone else feels..
MY opinion is
LOTRO is a lackluster title using mechanics already done well in other games currently available.
I left LOTRO due to these lackluster mechanics. And will watch and wait to see if any advancements are made in these mechanics to make it shine compared to these other games which are already available..
Op answered.,...
Cheers!
I agree they will not shut it down...the game is not the rock bottom like some other MMO's (Vanguard...*cough*...which is also going)...but I also would not say it is the best...other games do things so much better..
Combat = Guild Wars, WoW or EQ2
Crafting = EQ2 hands down the best
UI = WoW or EQ2
Performance = WoW or Guild Wars...
And until I see housing...again that goes to EQ2...
So, until some new updates go in to add something new to the genre...LOTRO will just be a stepchild to all of the above titles.
Cheers!
Uses undefended subjective opinion to counter undefended subjective opinion...brilliant in its symmetry. Though sadly unoriginal for this board.
As for me, no I'm not going anywhere. Agree, the gold spammers are annoying. But I'm having tons of fun overall. Also really looking forward to the patch next month.
Why would these opinions be subjective...
You do understand the meanings of all the words that you strung together here?
Let's do a little excercise. Which of the following statements is least likely to piss off someone that likes game X? Which one is most likely?
A. I personally don't like game X. Features X, Y, and Z blow, imo.
B. I don't like game X at all. Features X, Y, and Z suck. You really should be playing games A or B.
C. Game X sucks because features X, Y, and Z suck. Game X is far inferior to games A, and B. This is not a subjective opinion, it is an objective fact.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
So, your belief is that due to the fact I "pissed" someone off, my statements are subjective...
I am sorry if your feelings are hurt but, because I am on an LOTRO forum answering a post I now am suppose to pretend that this game is something it is not as that is the belief of some of the posters here?
It states in the definition for "Subjective" : QUOTE - They are unique to the person experiencing them...
So, for me to be subjective, then I would have to be the only one who believes my allegations
The opinions stated are my own, but also have been stated by others as well..even within this one post...
I can do what has been done before and post various other reviews and statements to the facts I have listed...so, it is not "subjective" as it would ONLY be my own opinion..it is not.
But, they are opinions, and you may take them or leave them..I have no qualms with this. Again, my post is strictly for the OP, and I hope it has given him an "open" minded thought on each various aspect of LOTRO...
More like "Food for thought"...
Good luck...and cheers!
Well, considering that I just started playing, im in no hurry to leave. Im only level 18 at the moment and having some pretty good fun with it.
The problem with people quitting games, is the fact that the same mmorpg formula is recycled through out 99% of the genre right now and people are getting bored. It's pretty much the same as playing a single player console rpg for instance. You are going to finish it once and move on to a new one. Sticking with one mmorpg for it's entire lifespan and not trying any of the other games out there boggles my mind, and I could never do it. I currenty subscribe to 3 mmorpg's so I can change up what I am playing all the time. I get so bloody bored playing the same one all the time, but I don't want to quit cause its still fun, when I want to come back to it later.
The 3 I am playing are:
Final Fantasy XI
Everquest 2
Lord of the Rings Online
I've tried pretty much every other mmo on the market and those 3 are the only ones worth my time. One thing that makes me play lotr over wow, is the quest system. Lotr's quest are soooooo much more interesting. WoW has waaaaay too many "go kill 10 of these and bring me back 10 of these" quests. It burned me out.
probably not
I love the LOTRO lore and im not a fan of these kind of mmo's as I came from pre-trammel uo, shadowbane, and eve online
but I love the lotro lore and have always hated warcraft...too cartoony for me
lotro's quest system is the exact same as wow's the game is basically wow with a different engine
I quit a couple weeks ago although I hadnt logged in for probably 2 weeks before that. Overall, I had a very good experience playing. I did not read through this entire thread but I did see one guy/gal quit because there was too much solo. Thats actually, the exact opposite reason I quit. There were many, many group quests, including of course the Storyline quests.
Due to my limited and constantly changing play schedule, IE I dont have much free time, it was nearly impossible to get a lot of these quests done. Especially the chained ones, I would get lucky and see a group forming, or have time to form my own for one, then realize it goes into another, then another...I have to leave, then am stuck with a part left that most people just bang out in a chain and never look back.
I think I also just got a bit bored of the mechanics, which is just MMO burnout for me. I found myself playing online FPS games more and more as the matches are quick, I can find one in a matter of minutes, and if I need to leave in the middle, I dont screw over anyone at all.
I contemplated giving Vanguard another try, maybe EQII again, I even thought about downloading the trial for WoW as its been a couple years since I played, but everything came back to the same issues. In WoW you can do a lot with a limited schedule if you dont care about raiding, which I had more than my fair share of a couple years ago, but meh, my retail disks were destroyed in a flood a little while back and I didnt feel like buying it with the expansion pack knowing I would probably get sick of it again really quick.
In case anyone is actually reading this, of course the disks were not really destroyed by the water, but they were in the box with the manual and all that good stuff and well, the water did some pretty nasty things to the entire package before I got them out. It wasnt worth even trying to get the disks free of the cardboard at that point for fear of catching some mold virus, heh.
So...now I am waiting on Hellgate London which isnt a MMO really, but thats not really a bad thing right now, at least to me. Still watching Warhammer though, probably by then I will be out of my MMO burnout.
So, your belief is that due to the fact I "pissed" someone off, my statements are subjective...
I am sorry if your feelings are hurt but, because I am on an LOTRO forum answering a post I now am suppose to pretend that this game is something it is not as that is the belief of some of the posters here?
It states in the definition for "Subjective" : QUOTE - They are unique to the person experiencing them...
So, for me to be subjective, then I would have to be the only one who believes my allegations
The opinions stated are my own, but also have been stated by others as well..even within this one post...
I can do what has been done before and post various other reviews and statements to the facts I have listed...so, it is not "subjective" as it would ONLY be my own opinion..it is not.
But, they are opinions, and you may take them or leave them..I have no qualms with this. Again, my post is strictly for the OP, and I hope it has given him an "open" minded thought on each various aspect of LOTRO...
More like "Food for thought"...
Good luck...and cheers!
Actually my post had two points, which I admit were somewhat weakly connected (I can see this would cause some confusion). In any case you manged to miss both of them. I'm going to take it on faith that you are not simply being argumentative, and explain myself in a bit more detail
I'm not trying to say that you don't have the right to have an opinion different from mine or to express it, or that (?!?) an opinion is subjective or not depending on whether it upsets someone. My points were:
1. Opinions are by definition subjective. They express individual beliefs, which may or may not be shared with other individuals. Thus your statement was internally inconsistent.
2. If you state your opinions as if they are objective facts, you should not be surprised when those statements upset others that have different opinions. I'm not saying you don't have the right to do it, but don't be surprised when you get called out.
No you have never said directly "My opinion of LoTRO is fact" but statements like :
Originally posted by openedge1:
"Why would these opinions be subjective... each of these area's have been commented on hundreds of times by not just myself, but so many others as well."
are only a step removed from it.
I've been as clear as I know how to be. Have a good thread folks.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I think that is the reason for the statement I make...
Subjective is mainly noted by this quote : QUOTE - They are unique to the person experiencing them...
These opinions are not unique...they have been stated by many various blogs..reviews, posts here...
So, like you, I am not trying to be argumentative, but make the note that these "opinions" are expressed by many. But, the fact that I reiterate them here, I am being "undefended" and "subjective" ...this is incorrect.
QUOTE: Undefended subjective opinion...
So, by your reasoning these "opinions" are not backed up by any type of data and are only my own...
Yes...my opinions, and opinions of others, which if we had a majority rule would be actually be fact...and would be objective...
For example, majority rules that the graphics look very good ...that is objective.
But, it was never stated they were "Facts", it was the opinion of many, and NOT undefended...and also not subjective if experienced by others...For example we could do the whole "Faith" vs "Science" discussion....and that will be argued as subjective or objective..
I am disappointed that these threads get derailed by these types of long tirades by each of us about what statements were made, why they are correct or incorrect. We are totally trying to answer the OP, each in our own way. And your opinion is one way (which I have not argued against) and my opinion another way (which you use condescending terms to mask my opinion)...what makes your opinion any better than my own?
So, lets be on our merry way...we have each stated our opinions here, and I will not quibble anymore over your use of opinion just as I would hope that you would show me the same respect.
I will officially leave this thread....and thank you for letting me have my own say in this matter.
Cheers!
I thought LotRO was an interesting and fun game. I was mostly surprised by the graphics which I really enjoyed. The questing and grinding my tailor became a bit boring as in most MMOs, but overall I liked the game.
I did quit but not because I hadn't liked the game anymore. I had an issue with customer service which I did not like their comments on (and I won't go into detail), so I chose to leave the game.
I was on Meneldor (sp?) and it was an ok server. Not to hard to get a group going. Mostly pleasant... although I did get a lot of gold spam.
LotRO: Meneldor: Riders of the Riddermark
I already left a few weeks ago.
I was a beta tester from early on in the closed beta, I bought the game the day it was released, I am a HUGE fan of Tolkien's, and I am a HUGE fan of MMO's so one would think that a LoTR MMO would be the end-all, be-all MMO for me right? Wrong!
To be perfectly honest I don't even know what, specifically, it was that caused me to grow bored with it. When I think about it I really enjoyed the game but over a relatively short amount of time I simply lost the urge to log-in and progress. I thought the Deed-Trait system of progression/character customization was really well thought-out and implemented, combat wasn't horrible, it wasn't great but it wasn't bad either, there were lots of quests which delved pretty deep into the world of Middle-Earth, and I got to explore a world that I had explored in my imagination so many time before, there was actually an over-arching story to the game which was nice, and it was based and built around the LoTR books so the game was steeped in some of my favorite lore ever. So what the hell was the problem
Well, I think that overall the game was just too similar to almost every other MMO I've ever played and didn't do enough to set itself apart from the crowd. It just didn't do enough to grab you and keep you, and that, I think, was due to a combination of the games pacing, and the fact that I had already been through the events of LoTR countless times through reading the books.
I liked the game, just not enough to stick with it for very long.
Totally agreed. My apologies for any negativity I may have added to your day.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Almost everyone here is comparing a very YOUNG game (One that is growing by an entire land or two ever 2 months), to games that already have years, or multiple expansions to them.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I, for one, am getting a bit burnt out no the fantasy MMO. I wish someone would make a good sci-fi MMO. Anyway, I think we're all just jaded.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
You are confused as to the meaning of the term "objective". By definition, "objective" means something is true despite anyone's opinion on the matter. If a majority agrees on something, what you have is "consensus", which may or may not have any bearing on "objective truth".
For instance, the scientific community believed that the heavens revolved around the earth for 1400 years. Virtually every learned scholar agreed. That was "consensus", not "objectivity".
It is impossible to have an "objective" measure on matters of taste, such as what constitutes an enjoyable interface, and enjoyable storyline, and enjoyable combat system. Those are all issues of taste, and no matter how large the consensus, remain "subjective".
Reasonable people find it irritating when others argue their personal preferences as if they were objective fact. Your tastes do not equal objective truth. That a majority agrees with you does not make your tastes any more objective, just more popular.
I'm still playing LOTRO, and currently my wife and I find it acceptably enjoyable despite the various elements that are identical to other games, etc. As for myself, I have long grown weary of games such as EQ1, EQ2, WoW, LOTRO, and all the others that rely on the large group - raid paradigm employing the "Holy Trinity" (Tank/Healer/DPS) model.
It's old, it sucks, and the gamespace has changed. People want to play with their spouse, or their kid, or a couple good friends. It's not all about hanging around with 38 other strangers for six hours in a dungeon anymore. We aren't in High School anymore.
check it out
Well said Carufin
All men are mortal
Socrates is a man
Socrates is mortal.
You are confused as to the meaning of the term "objective". By definition, "objective" means something is true despite anyone's opinion on the matter. If a majority agrees on something, what you have is "consensus", which may or may not have any bearing on "objective truth".
For instance, the scientific community believed that the heavens revolved around the earth for 1400 years. Virtually every learned scholar agreed. That was "consensus", not "objectivity".
It is impossible to have an "objective" measure on matters of taste, such as what constitutes an enjoyable interface, and enjoyable storyline, and enjoyable combat system. Those are all issues of taste, and no matter how large the consensus, remain "subjective".
Reasonable people find it irritating when others argue their personal preferences as if they were objective fact. Your tastes do not equal objective truth. That a majority agrees with you does not make your tastes any more objective, just more popular.
I'm still playing LOTRO, and currently my wife and I find it acceptably enjoyable despite the various elements that are identical to other games, etc. As for myself, I have long grown weary of games such as EQ1, EQ2, WoW, LOTRO, and all the others that rely on the large group - raid paradigm employing the "Holy Trinity" (Tank/Healer/DPS) model.
It's old, it sucks, and the gamespace has changed. People want to play with their spouse, or their kid, or a couple good friends. It's not all about hanging around with 38 other strangers for six hours in a dungeon anymore. We aren't in High School anymore.
QFT!!Cheers mate, this was the best, clearest way to describe what 2 of us were already trying to explain him... if he still doesn't understand, that only proves the intention of trolling - let's hope not.
BTW, back to topic: I have actually started to play less and less lotro for now -I have levelled my main to 44, and have 4 alts - 30,25, and two 15's - I guess I just had a little overdose of the same quests
. In the meantim (and maybe till the next update comes out) I'll be playing 9dragons or something other F2P 
as I still can't find a p2p game that I would switch to.
My only grudge with Lotro's general gameflow, that at this moment it is not very exciting to run alts through the 15+ content, as its mostly the same once one gets to Bree...
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I agree they will not shut it down...the game is not the rock bottom like some other MMO's (Vanguard...*cough*...which is also going)...but I also would not say it is the best...other games do things so much better..
Combat = Guild Wars, WoW or EQ2
Crafting = EQ2 hands down the best
UI = WoW or EQ2
Performance = WoW or Guild Wars...
And until I see housing...again that goes to EQ2...
So, until some new updates go in to add something new to the genre...LOTRO will just be a stepchild to all of the above titles.
Cheers!
Uses undefended subjective opinion to counter undefended subjective opinion...brilliant in its symmetry. Though sadly unoriginal for this board.
As for me, no I'm not going anywhere. Agree, the gold spammers are annoying. But I'm having tons of fun overall. Also really looking forward to the patch next month.
Why would these opinions be subjective...especially when the titles listed have a stable ground on which to stand. And each of these area's have been commented on hundreds of times by not just myself, but so many others as well.
Maybe because... oh I don't know... Opinions, by their nature are subjective? You know, that just might be a reason. I can't believe you'd even pose that kind of a challenge. Was that a flaw in phrasing, or an unfettered display of ignorance and/or arrogance on your part?
That a lot of people share an opinion makes it no less so - it's still opinion, and still subjective. A lot of people also enjoy and think it's a great game - also opinion and also subjective.
Examples....
Combat : I know in the games I have listed which, (in your opinion), are better...if I go against a mob that is at least 2 levels below me, I will not die...period..LOTRO, you may just die from a Bear that is 2 levels below you, as it has broken your armor, in a stacking attack, that you as a player CANNOT do....Which would be the better combat system?
So, a game that gives you a higher rate of victory = better game. Got it.
Funny, I fight bears that are 2 levels above me and do fine. At close range... with a Hunter. Maybe you just weren't playing very well against them? And 2 levels below you doesn't guarantee a victory. This is the case in just about any MMO I play. Is there a better chance of victory? Sure, is it enough to guarantee a victory? Nope. Things can always go really well for the mob, or just really poorly for you.
UI : I am sorry, but (in your opinion) the control of your interface is so much more in depth in EQ2 or WoW...EQ2...move anything ANYWHERE...toolbars, icons, sideways, change font sizes, etc...WoW, totally change everything..LOTRO...no font sizing in the journal, or bags...toolbar MUST stay at the bottom.
Again, subjective. Some people are annoyed by feeling like they have to "rearrange everything". I've seen people say it was laziness on the devs part to not come up with a good interface that works well and make the players do it. Their opinion, of course. But, still, enough to underscore the point that however strongly you feel about the interface in a given game, it's still your opinion, not fact.
Performance : What is incorrect here...this is definitely not subjective, as these titles were made a while ago, and I would even put Guild Wars graphics against LOTRO in beauty and originality..and they perform well..
Guild Wars is a beautiful game and I'll agree with you that, in my opinion, the characters and environments are more elaborate and attractive. But then they're allowed that freedom in GW because it's their IP. There is nothing that existed prior to its creation that defined how it was supposed to look. You (in general) can prefer one over the other, just like someone might prefer pepperoni over sausage on their pizza, but a preference for one doesn't make the other less inferior. Again.. it's personal opinion.
As for performance... I don't have the issues you have described in LoTRO - the seemingly constant hiccups and such. I have the settings almost at max and am *not* on a bleeding edge machine. I get hiccups for a couple moments when I enter open, populated areas and the game is loading everything; then it smooths out. It's worth noting, though, that even in Guild Wars, which I also run at or near max settings, I get hiccups when populated areas are loading in as well, about on par with what I experience in LoTRO.
I will assume your comment comes from the crafting note I made. This was a simple thought as well. I can either
A: Stand around and watch my character make the umpteenth millionth hide, as there is NO interactivity.
Again... personal preference. Some people enjoy that. You don't, and that's okay. It doesn't make it bad; just not for you, personally.
B: Be prepared to use my skills, to master my craft, as I create a beautiful pristine item, that I worked on to make...
I think I've agreed in another post that for me, EQ2 has the better crafting system of the games you've mentioned. It's an actual mini-game. There are seemingly almost as many "techniques" as there are people who do craft in that game. Some are pro-active with using the skills, some are reactive. In any case, again... That's my opinion of it. I know people who can't stand EQ2's crafting system, find it too involved for their liking, and stay the hell away from it. In their minds, they want to be able to craft stuff, but they don't want to stand there clicking buttons non-stop to do so. So even there, it boils down to opinion.
I don't know about you...but, I think I see what I would rather be doing....
These are undefended? Try to defend the issues noted for LOTRO...they are silly problems really..but that is why the previous titles HAVE done them better. LOTRO copied, and should have improved...but where exactly did they improve?
Undefended? Perhaps not - again, the'yre opinions. Unreasonable comparisons? Absolutely.
You're comparing a 5 or so month old game with games with games that have had 3 years or more to grow and improve. Yeah. Solid comparison, that.
All the games you mentioned had their own share of glitches and issues when they first launched as well, which persisted for several months into their lives.
Heck..I can list off a number of issues with EQ2... Ready?
I remember EQ2 randomly crashing on a regular basis for many people for quite a while - and this was around a year into its life-cycle. Even more recent - Last time I played the game, as recent as a couple months ago, fish still swam up and out and stayed above the water. Flocks of birds still flew in a straight line, straight into the ground. Shooting stars still shot up *from* the ground into the sky. Trying to run while in the middle of any other action still resulted in your character sliding across the ground, feet stationary, while completing that action. Griphons still glitched and sometimes you'd be "frozen" at the landing pad, requiring you to restart the game. Sometimes the griphon doesn't even show up and you're flying through the air unassisted, in a sitting position. That's just a handful of examples; I have more I can list. This is after around 3 years into the life-span of a game you keep holding up as an example to criticize LoTRO's glitches after only several months on the market.
Point is - no MMO is ever glitch free; especially not when they're first launched, and even - as illustrated above - after a few years. So, please, give it up on those types of comparisons. Again, I realize they're convenient and difficult for you to pass up, but they really aren't nearly as rock-solid as you seem to believe them to be.
You don't like the game. Great! You're just as entitled to your opinions as any one else. You just need to learn to express them as such and stop trying to portray them as fact - as you do on a regular basis.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
waiting to see book 11 then quitting again.
Is already clear the direction the game will go in. They want to keep it all as basic as possible and veer towards the wow/evercrap model of levelling up and then repeating raids for gear. Already only 5 months after release the ex-wow raid boyz are crying because the raid drops arent x100 better than crafted and that the raids dont require 40 people. I dont doubt for a minute that in a years time,itll still be going strong,but by then I fear it will be lord of the raids:online and nothing else.
They have an opportunity with the traits and destiny perks systems to have a very good charatcer customization method,but itll only ever be likely to be as it is now, i.e crap and very pidgeon holed. No general traits like extra healing or passive defense,no extra physical attack traits other than racial,no crafting or riding traits,the virtues arent even all that great anyway.
The crafting could be great,the way you make crit items by adding different components could open up all sorts of ways to customize your stats,but again itll probably never happen. no doubt itll be pointless levelling up crafting as more raid gear comes in.
This would have been a great game ,without sounding like some of the bores on here (or boars in lotro case :P ) for a sandbox type of game,with player run markets,lots of varied crafting options;imagine being able to set up a stall in a big market in breeland to sell your vegetables,or being able to rear an animal whilst growing your pipeweed on one of the many farms in the shire. instead we'll probably see more raids.
Im looking forward to seeing the housing,but the more it slowly morphs into world or evercrapcraft the less im inclined to stick around.
The only other options sadly are everturd 2 and lolguard,both of which i regret spending my ££ on. Hoping on a certain beta game for my enjoyment now...
Ouch...wow...say it like it is man...now, lets see if the LOTRO posting police on this forum slam you like they do me everytime I say something about their precious title...
It HUURRTTSSS us Preciousssss
PS: Good post also...no holds barred!
Whining raiders have defecated on every game to date. What makes you think this will be any different with LOTRO. They're already caving in and adding more raid bullshit. Everytime these stupid developers cave in to the hardcore demand, game's go downhill fast, sure they retain a good 200K to 400K, but usually lose twice that much in casuals who leave due to the hardcore changes.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I actually agree that most of the things you suggest would make LoTRO a better game, and I too have no intention of sticking around if the decide to turn this into Lord of the Raids Online. However, so far it seems to me that the devs "get it." We'll have to wait and see.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Nobody have slammed you or will slam you for any honest negative opinion/experience you might write about LOTRO or any other game, as long as you're not trying to show it as an objective fact. All of us has negative opininons about one or more aspects of this game (too). It all depends on your true intention, how you package it
. Iffymack's post is quite intelligent, and has very good points. No irritating, trolling "I know it all and it sucks" attitude. Read it again 
Chill out, and please don't post flamebaits.
Thanks
Back to topic: I have now returned to 9dragons - I know it's an eastern F2P, not even the best one, and it's basically a MASSIVE grindfest - but shockingly, I am enjoying it
Normally I hate mob grinding, but there is so little of that in LOTRO (not even good for traits for me, since my main is a Loremaster)... quite interesting. I wil probably run away screaming from it in a week, and not go back for another 5 months - this kind of "signals" a behaviour pattern.
I wouldn't be surprised to see many "vets" coming back to LOTRO in the future... this has happened to EQ2 on a _massive_ scale. We just have to wait and see...
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.