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Halo 3: MMO influences in multiplayer?
BadSpock
Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
For those who don't already own Halo 3 and are loving it as much as I do...
It's very interesting to me that they implemented some MMO-like features into Halo 3.
For instance, whenever you win (or I think even tie) a multi-player game, be it ranked or just a "social" non-ranked game, you gain an experience point. Once you get enough experience points, you "level" up in rank. Like from Corporal Grade 2 to Grade 3.
Also, as you "level" up your experience you get access to different armor modules to customize the look of your avatar. These have no effect on the game play at all, but are cool aesthetic choices.
Also with the Xbox 360 achievements for Halo 3, you can unlock even more armor models. Like blowing up a vehicle with 3 people in it will get you a new helmet model for the Chief.
I know Call of Duty 4 is doing something similar with their custom classes and advancement system, but they are going even further to allow weapon upgrades and what not.
What do you all think?
Do you believe this is the natural evolution of FPS gaming or just ideas borrowed from MMO games because of the very increased popularity of the MMORPG genre?
Comments
Its an RPG influence... not an MMORPG influence...
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
QFT
This isnt new. Stuff like this has been done before. Battlefield for example.
Does everyone think on this site mmos were the first games ever made? MMos are an offshoot of RPG FPS and adventure games etc. etc etc.
People on this site act like mmos are the only games. Let me clue some of you into things. MMOs are still a niche market and the actual turnover from the games industry in total is probably less than 1% from mmos.
Bren
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Bren
Even though people should be mindful of where mmos came from. Also if your gonna try and make some asumptions, do some reasearch. FPS games have been doing that stuff for quiet awhile now.
Also since you mentioned Half life 2 mods. You should look up old school Day of Defeat that game came out way before wow and allowed character advancement in ranks. HIgher ranks would allow you to access more abilities and stat improvements.
A lot of MMOs have been crossing the line of persistent worlds with the use of a lot of instancing. IMO it starts to get very fuzzy if when you start breaking people up into different instances in online games. I like to consider an MMO to be something where everyone shares the same exact place on your server. I'm not a huge fan of instances.
true, good point. i remember playing DoD only a couple of times so I probably didn't see any of the ranks/ability improvement features
The "success" of the mmorpg genre has very little to do influence wise with ranks/progression in other forms of multiplayer gaming. All it is is a simple hook to get people playing more for some useless star/rank/option/appearance whatever. Look how obsessed people become on CS servers that do player rankings.
excellent topic - especially since I love Halo 3. been trying to beat the 4 player coop with friends before jumping in the ranked matches
yeah you gain rank based on player skill and you lose rank for bad gameplay. most MMORPGs dont even have the nuts to do this. thus im back in FPS world. Plus we have the use of Terrain in FPS which means no getting spiked by the enemy team like you would have in an MMO no thanks to 'TAB to Target'
I love the friendly fire
The "unlock" system it employs is common to FPS. Battlefield and others used it. Lost Planet you also gain/lose rank I'm level 21 in that one still trying to unlock the best looking armor
In Rainbow 6: Vegas you unlock new weapons and armor and equipment and somehow it is all balanced
just imagine if this scheme was ever adapted in MMO (at least MMOFPS). No grinding to end game in order to compete in PVP. At game start you can compete with your fellow man. No insta-death due to spiking like you see in MMORPG genre. No cookie cutter Warrior types and others running out in the open because they'll get sniped way before they close range without clever use of terrain and transparent cloaking devices
Yeah make sure to checkout the Battlefield series and pretty all the FPS coming out. I think all of them will have Classes, weapons, and gear you can unlock. I really vastly prefer FPS to mmorpg sadly these days due to the massive grindfests and timesinks they all seem to have.
or is it independant and more a measure of player's obsession to any video game genre in general?
I think players like to not only feel they are getting better, but see it to. What's the point in winning every time if you don't get to show off your awesomeness?
it's been the driving principle behind MMORPG subscriptions and has been filtering its way into other game genres like FPS games.
very interesting indeed...
maybe it's a reflection of our ever changing society? winning isn't enough anymore we have to show others that we have won?
I would say it has more to do with internet games in general becoming more and more common-place as compared to how it was in the 90s. This affected all gaming, making the push towards multiplayer implementation. MMORPG's were AFFECTED by this, NOT the cause of.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
well said.
I guess if you look at the founding MMO, UO, you really had very little idea how "uber" the other players were as there were very few visual queues to a players power...
so where is internet gaming going in the future? further unlocks and deeper customization / advancement systems?
I, like many others, believe user created content is really the next big "thing"
like we see in Halo 3 with the Forge, as well as the file sharing systems that are absolutely top notch
but is the obsession to gain rank/influence/options/appearance derived from the very model that MMORPG's have always run on?or is it independant and more a measure of player's obsession to any video game genre in general?
I think players like to not only feel they are getting better, but see it to. What's the point in winning every time if you don't get to show off your awesomeness?
it's been the driving principle behind MMORPG subscriptions and has been filtering its way into other game genres like FPS games.
very interesting indeed...
maybe it's a reflection of our ever changing society? winning isn't enough anymore we have to show others that we have won?
Now you are starting to stumble upon the real thing. It''s just something for a player (individual) to obsess upon for others to see. It does make players play said game longer as they want to achieve more / look more impressive than the next person. It's kind of a double edged sword though. This mechanic keeps players coming in and learning the mechanics better, but at the same time these players become more self focused and start indirectly avoiding /neglecting the rest of the community.Developers see an addiction in some players to want to achieve and they add in the mechanics to the game. I still don't want to jump the bridge and say its directly due to "MMO success" .
I said MMORPG not RPG because Halo 3 online multiplayer is pretty massively multiplayer online if you ask me... so, combine a game that is massively multiplayer online and is using RPG elements such as experience and unlockable armor models.....
I'm not saying at ALL that Halo 3 is a MMOFPS
it's a FPS that has online multiplayer on a massive scale.
that also happens to use a very select few concepts seemingly taken from RPGs for their ranking system and unlocks.
Ya'll need to stop being so smug
Wtf is wrong with you FPS servers have never been considered massively multiplayer, that term refers to online worlds such as mmorpgs.
Also you seem to not know much about games at all, as was previously stated this kind of thing has been going on for a long time. Rainbow six vegas had the exact same thing earn points to get new head gear etc.
You fail
when was Rainbow Six Vegas released? after WoW craze. Again, back to my orignal point, are FPS games adding RPG elements because of the massive success of MMORPGs?
wtf is wrong with you if you can't make sense of that simple question?
as for FPS games being massively multiplayer, I imagine you are refering to the fact that players must occupy the same virtual space to be massively multiplayer, like have common areas like towns/outposts where hundreds if not thousands of players can meet up?
by that definition of massively multiplayer, then yes, FPS servers are not massively multiplayer. so I concede that point
massive numbers of players that are playing online at the same time does NOT = massively multiplayer because they do not fill the same virtual space
Well technically Rainbow Six vegas, is not a "first person shooter". It may have a mode where you go into first person, but the game series has always been a Tactical Shooter. Meaning you go from third to First Person, yes, you do the same in Halo 3, but the Tactical element which is the driving force behind Rainbow Six is what makes it different.
Furthermore, GTA San Andreas was the first game to really add, RPG elements to the Action/ third person shooter Genre. I would think if anything, that would be the main influence behind alot of other shooters adding in RPG elements. Seeing as it came out a month before WoW.
Is WoW's large playerbase the reason behind FPS's getting more RPG like?
Possibly, but I consider it unlikely, leveling up in games has been around since GOD knows when, and there was many more titles before WoW to constitute a change in game mechanics. IF anything I think its just that developers have been noticing the trend of FPS's all being the same just with better graphics. They already had the Racing elements, the Action Elements, the Simulation elements, they cant really do sports, or party game elements, so I think they choose the best path which is adding RPG elements.
Still it is interesting to see that all the FPS games did add the RPG elements after WoW, but I think it mere coincidence.
just my Opinion though.
-Jive
I like that idea of gaining cool mods that dont effect gameplay. Last I heard, WAR is doing something like that with PvP. Really, thats something Ive wanted to see for a while, the ability to gain PvP rewards that dont actaully effect PvP.
Anyway, with Halo that does sound interesting. I know Perfect Dark kept track of your stats and in game awards, but I dont think you ever actually got anything, other than Ranks and awards on your stat page.
Just a side question here, how is the multiplayer on Halo 3? Almost every Halo player I know hated the multiplayer on Halo 2, just wondering what they did this time.
Isn't WAR a PvP centric game? Why wouldn't you want gameplay inter-twined with PvP combat and rewards? I could see them having both rewards that both affect and don't affect PvP.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
or is it independant and more a measure of player's obsession to any video game genre in general?
I think players like to not only feel they are getting better, but see it to. What's the point in winning every time if you don't get to show off your awesomeness?
it's been the driving principle behind MMORPG subscriptions and has been filtering its way into other game genres like FPS games.
very interesting indeed...
maybe it's a reflection of our ever changing society? winning isn't enough anymore we have to show others that we have won?
Now you are starting to stumble upon the real thing. It''s just something for a player (individual) to obsess upon for others to see. It does make players play said game longer as they want to achieve more / look more impressive than the next person. It's kind of a double edged sword though. This mechanic keeps players coming in and learning the mechanics better, but at the same time these players become more self focused and start indirectly avoiding /neglecting the rest of the community.Developers see an addiction in some players to want to achieve and they add in the mechanics to the game. I still don't want to jump the bridge and say its directly due to "MMO success" .
FPS are moving to a model similar to MMORPG (well more akin to Guild Wars) whereas they want you to come back to purchase expansions. It is plain marketing. The "suits" want us to buy that next Battlefield expansion. Thus, they keep dangling carrots in front of our faces like cool looking armor, equipment, and new guns to unlock to maintain our interest til the next expansion is ready.
in Lost Planet they charged me for extra maps and I eagerly paid it
In Rainbow 6: vegas they charged for some new gamemodes on xbox live
Battlefield always releases new expansions
we 'grind' to hit the top in reality but at least vets and newbies are pretty equal footing.
Isn't WAR a PvP centric game? Why wouldn't you want gameplay inter-twined with PvP combat and rewards? I could see them having both rewards that both affect and don't affect PvP.
WAR is heavily vertical progression like traditional MMORPG. In Halo and other FPS your "level"/rank is merely a symbol of your player skill. Armor is merely a new outfit. WAR is a Level based game so rest assure an expansion will keep raising level caps or sneak in more progression through gear
Meltdown, I dont want to hijack this thread, but I'll try to explain what I meant.
I dont like having big "ladders" in a PvP game. Most of them have a level grind, where you have to drag your way through however many levels of pve before you can compete in pvp. Then, theres a gear grind, where you have to drag your way through more pve so you can get the gear to compete in pvp. Then, they come up with pvp rewards, which sounds really cool, since you'll get rewarded for what you do in pvp. But, in reality, its just another ladder.
You've finished your level grind and your gear grind and now you finally get to do what you wanted, compete in pvp, right? Not yet. Now that youre here you have to get your azz handed to you repeatedly by more experienced avatars that have all their pvp skills and abilities built up. Its just another ladder that separates players based on the experience of their avatar, some players like this, I dont. DAOC did this, and I thought it sounded good at first, but it was really just another grind you had to deal with. I do like the idea of PvP awards, but only if they dont directly effect the PvP power of an avatar. There are lots of ways that MMOs could do this, they just have to be creative.
I mean, in PvP games you want as much competition as possible. The more players there are out there to fight, the more action youre gonna see. So, I think that having ladders/grinds in a PvP game actually works against what players want to do in the game, which is fight each other...a lot. Dont separate players any more than you have to, they'll just get bored when they log on for 30 minutes and cant find anyone to fight because everyone online at the moment is either lower level, not geared up, or lower in realm rank. Just my opinion...
true, good point. i remember playing DoD only a couple of times so I probably didn't see any of the ranks/ability improvement features
Huh? Day of defeat didn't have character advancement, I play DoD since almost beta. It never had that. Dunno what you guys are talking about.
Halo 3 mmorpg would be great! Pick your side, go up professions. It be a little like WWIIonline, but I'd like the combat to be similier to the old SWG, not in a sense exactly like, like /attack or certain special moves you learn as you get EXP and level up. There would be some bumps in the road, but I think it'll be ok.
true, good point. i remember playing DoD only a couple of times so I probably didn't see any of the ranks/ability improvement features
Huh? Day of defeat didn't have character advancement, I play DoD since almost beta. It never had that. Dunno what you guys are talking about.
He's thinking of Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory.
DoD never had any character advancement whatsoever. Firearms for the original HL, on the other hand, had quite a number of character customization options. There wasn't any stat tracking, but it was one of the first FPS games/mods that I played that had some type of RPG element in it.
Desert Crisis for HL1 was another one with a huge amount of customization---even more so than FA. Allowed you to pick your character's appearance and everything.