CCP are one of the few companies out there who actually are interested in what the customers want. Be it an industrial capital ship (long requested, now reality) or that whole ambulation-thing with "what do you want us to code"-Threads in the forums.
Oh, and they are the only ones who can use obscure starwars and fifht-element-references in their official statements without sounding strange. "Big-Badaboom-Improvements" or "This-is-not-the-Battleship-you-are-looking-for"-Battleship are things no normal company woudl ever say.
'nuff said
(Examples:
"Once upon a time, Oveur and Hammerhead were sitting down, eating burgers and drinking. They were discussing Factional Warfare and the 101 design documents we had on it. Then they drank some more and had an inspiration and in an attempt to be cool game developers and creative types they wrote their ideas down on a napkin. The result of this got drawn up on our internal design tracking system the next day. [...] After that we tried to shoehorn it into our November expansion. Unfortunately, after a thorough review of the design it was decided that we couldnt squeeze it in without adversely affecting the patch and the deployment of Factional Warfare as a feature we were happy with.
"Yet Again!" - I hear you say. Yes, we feel your pain as well, but we want to give you a finished feature rather than just chucking out tons of new cool stuff. To implement Factional Warfare we would have had to move programmers away from fixing and improving things into creating Factional Warfare, and this simply wasnt acceptable to us."
Personal Favourite: "Want your tacklers to hear you sing "It's Britney Bitch!" but keep your damage dealers oblivious because they might express their displeasure with guns? Done."
EVE/CCP is one of the few games that found a good balance between PVP/PVE. really well put together game I agree. too bad most of the pop here at this site havent really played it. It would open up there eyes to something beyond classes/levels
Aren't they working on a World of Darkness : Vampires/Werewolves mmo now? Hope that turns out well...
eh too much of a niche group will play that and i cant see it going very far, much to many disappointments.
Eve is successful precisely because it is a niche game. it doesn't appeal to everyone, and it doesn't try to. Those it does appeal to have a hard time fitting in in other MMOs, for whatever reason. I imagine their new MMO will be successful for exactly the same reason.
Also CCP's policy of making all expansions free and overhauling the graphics every couple of years have given the game a lot more longevity than most MMOs. Eve is one of the oldest games out there and is still growing.
The BIGGEST flaw in EVE is its hyped about feature. PVP.
PVP in EVE is NOT fun.
I have played both the victim and victor in PVP on EVE. Most of the time, it's a bunch of ships versus one poorly equipped ship. Usually taking place at jump gates where they cannot defend themselves nor escape too well. Waiting at a gate for a ship to come through and then blow it up wasn't too thrilling either. The jump gates in EVE play too much of a role of creating choke points; I want to play in unlimited space, not on an intergalactic high way. Also, the losses of skills, ship and equipment discourages any true PVP. You usually have an ass of a time buying your ship and equipment back. Not to mention time consuming.
I ended up doing rat missions until I quit from boredom.
The feeling I got from this game was pretty looking rooms with NPCs in them, than the feeling of an actual space setting where things should happen with out me setting off a trigger.
Was quite disappointed with EVE. Pretty graphics and realistic economy doesn't compensate for the lack of fun.
The CCP teams approach to community relations was very refreshing and I still respect them for their openness to the community. It took a bit of a hit IMO with the scandals, but still compared to other MMOs it ranks very high for customer interaction.
The game itself has many new ideas and is both wide and deep with content mainly because the community drives it. Its biggest downfall is time investment. If you are looking for a game to get really deep into and have years to dedicate, than there really is no other choice. If you just want to jump into a game for the pure fun of it, don't even consider it.
As far as the thread is concerned, CCP knows how to make what they make, but is not the only company that knows how to create an MMO. I played EvE for 1.5 years and got my monies worth, but in the end i just didn't have the time to go any further into the game. Other games now suit my needs just fine now and don't require me to invest even 1/10th of the time to get this fun.
Most of all, enjoy what you are playing or move on and support other games. We don't want all MMOs to be like EvE, or WoW, or .... There will be a time when you will need to give up EvE and play something less intense.
Azure, i just started eve after maybe year long break and i havent been gate camped once yet. The warp to 0km feature helps a lot against camps in low sec.
I love the concept of Eve and wish I could get into playing.
The only problems I have with Eve are the following:
in order of importance:
1) Learning curve is too steep
2) I want Jumpgate type control, instead of point and click (flying with a joystick, sim style) even if combat is still roll based.
3) Collision with space stations and asteroids (not other players)
4) An avatar that walks around inside space stations that is highly customizeable ala SWG/EQ2/VG
Change 1 through 3 and I'll become a hopeless addict (4 is purely fluff), as it stands now I really want to play, but just cant force myself to do it.... dammit now that you brought this up I have to try yet another free trial of eve =-(
P.S.- I'm hoping Jumpgate Evolution will be my game... I would play Jumpgate now but the population is just too low.
Grymm MMO addict in recovery! EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH, Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Azure, i just started eve after maybe year long break and i havent been gate camped once yet. The warp to 0km feature helps a lot against camps in low sec.
I know about that feature. But doesn't help you when you're in null security sector you just gated into. And once you're in the system, there's a bunch of ships assisted by an interdictor with a warp scrambler field waiting for you. You can't even make it back to the gate you came from after you de-cloak. I was in a shuttle even. Heh.
People OWN that space, and they want their own little kingdom there with their rules.
And they dislike strangers there! (Mostly)
I personally live in 0.0 as a freelancer. I have access to several intelchannels and get warned early if there are enemies reported anywhere in the Region.
I think the best part about the Learning skill system in Eve online is that it sorts out the impatient Youngsters and kids which is very noticeable wherever you go in Eve online since the average Eve player is in theyre late 20 and young 30's.
Another point which is great in Eve online is that you can have a life, you can have a family to tend for, you can have a fulltime job without pretending to be sick so you can stay home and raid. This is also why so many adults choose Eve online compared to for example Lineage 2, Wow and other i kill a rabbit i get XP games.
The skill system is passive which means yeah i may work 12 hours a day but i can still compete with the other ones that play all day long when i get home.
And everyone that says that it is to late to catch up, people have skilled for 4 years i may never catch up with them now ?. That is correct you will not catch up with them but there are so many variables of PVP the only ones that actually take long time to skill upto is Capital PVP which is the endgame in EVE onlines journey for world domination, however this endgame machine if trained from scratch only takes about 3 - 6 months to accomplish to be able to pvp with you may not have the best skills for it but you are well to hold youre own against none capital pilots.
The biggest mistake new players does in eve online is that they spread out theyre skillpoints by wanting todo everything at once. Instead read up on what shiptypes you like what roles it fills which one is great for solo pvp or gang pvp read up on a ship that really fits youre gamestyle then you train only for that ship and the gunnery or missile skills for that ship and you can be done with all those skills within 2 weeks to 3 months depending on ship allthough you will of course be able to pvp with it long before that the 3 months are only when you master the skills and train those itty bitty top end skills of that tree.
Now have fun and remember even though the tutorial is 3 hours long Eve is a very complicated machine without the tutorial you will be confused then sad then bored then quit its great to sort out the youngsters from the mature ones !
Deja Nay Carrier/Dread pilot and Super capital Producer.
SWG Bria Light Jedi Knight Awok Pre Patch 9. Eve Online - Deja Nay
CCP are also the only developers that ask you to sign a 'lifetime commitment' just to be able to play EVE. I mean you'll literally have to consider EVE your second 'marriage' in your 30's (suppose you start playing at 21 years of age) as you struggle to keep up with people who started earlier than you and will always have an advantage over you because skills are both easy to train,but too long to complete.
Still,at least for X bucks/euros/pounds a month you get a nice mature social community. One that's on par with Second Life for being helpful and talkative.
CCP are also the only developers that ask you to sign a 'lifetime commitment' just to be able to play EVE. I mean you'll literally have to consider EVE your second 'marriage' in your 30's (suppose you start playing at 21 years of age) as you struggle to keep up with people who started earlier than you and will always have an advantage over you because skills are both easy to train,but too long to complete. Still,at least for X bucks/euros/pounds a month you get a nice mature social community. One that's on par with Second Life for being helpful and talkative.
If you do concentrate youre skills for one ship you can easyly compete with someone that has skilled for 4 years because they have concentrated on several ships over those years and months and you can only go so far on the skill trees so a 4 month old Player may very well fly an Interceptor or Heavy assault cruiser with as good skills as someone who has skilled and played for 4 years.
SWG Bria Light Jedi Knight Awok Pre Patch 9. Eve Online - Deja Nay
You're right about many things, but not... "- Rich and deep character creation and customization." If EVE's character creation is "rich and deep" to you I'd hate to see what you consider shallow. " - Skill system." EVE has maybe the worst skill system I've ever seen in an MMORPG. Other than those two minor little details you're right
Perhaps you are to used to being spoon fed in standard cookie Cutter MMO's then?
EvE's skill system works just fine for eve as its got little to do with charecter advancment.
And the charecter customisation is actually better than most MMO's.
Unless you can come up with some good examples to say otherwise tho?
Agreed with previous poster that this sort of attitude is why people can't stand the majority of EVE players. I disagree with two of your points and suddenly I'm "to (sic) used to being spoon fed in standard cookie Cutter MMO's (sic) then?"
Character creation in EVE is dismal. You don't even make a full character, you make a mugshot. Sure you get a lot of options making this mugshot but at the end of the day that's all it is. Even after playing for a few hours you start to notice that there's really only a few different faces that people actually use, especially at the tiny size you see them at they all start to look the same. Also factor in that most new players have to start as certain culture/profession combos just so that they can have some prayer of being viable at any part of the game that's actually fun and you see EVE is much more "cookie cutter" in it's character creation than most other MMORPGs. Even World of Warcraft you see some diversity in race and class choices. Look at games like Lineage 2 or the upcoming Age of Conan or Pirates of the Burning Sea for games that offer real character customization. In fact, I challenge you to name one MMORPG that EVE has better character customization than. Just one.
Now the skill system...oh lord the skill system.
First, it doesn't reward skill or effort, it rewards the amount of time you've had an account. Where's the sense of accomplishing anything here? Even if we assume that's an acceptable way to run a game, it could only work if you capped the skills at say, six months. Instead the game's been out for years now and afaik nobody has all the skills and people are training stuff that takes multiple months to train?!? It's a rather silly way to hide the fact that there's no end-game content. At the end of the day the people who've been around longer in EVE will win and that's just sorta silly. I much prefer an approach where it's a few months to max level and then the real PvP begins, with relative new players able to go toe to toe with the veterans. Pirates of the Burning Sea has the right idea here. A skill system that rewards accomplishment and doesn't make it impossible for new players to get involved. Oh, and has actual end-game content worth playing for.
Keep in mind that I agree with the OP on every other point. It just is aggravating when someone says "oh you don't like game X you must be a newb lol"
No matter which Alliance will "win", they will split up because 0.0 got boring..
Its the brains that will be successful. Be it massive sp like in bob or massive amount of players with low sp in goonswarm or the better tactics of mercenary coalition or anyone else, its just not enough. I have seen so many forces of vets beaten by fcs who could use many dedicated newbies to crush their enemy..
I played Eve for about a week and quit out of sheer boredom. Actually I think out of that week I really only "played" for about a day.
My biggest complaint about Eve is that it's so automated. Want to go somewhere? Set your jump gates then come back in 15 minutes. Skills? Well, we all know how skills are. They should rename it because Skills is definitely a misnomer.
Another complaint is that while it's great that there is only 1 server and the galaxy is huge but that also a problem. In the week I played I saw actual other people maybe 3 times in total. Unless you're in a hotly contested area Eve is very empty.
Don't think I even need to say how much of a joke the PVE content is.
Pretty much the only "positive" thing about Eve is the FFA PvP and if you're not into that then Eve is a waste.
Noone else has ever gotten it right until they created EVE and while the gameplay might not be to everyones tastes, it's how a mmorpg should work! - Skill system. Not having levels means not having a end game and thats fantastic because in a online world you want to constantly evolve and not be stuck at the end game with everyone else, you want to be different and not the same. If a game has a end game then it'll quickly get boring and you'll find nothing to do and then the company will be stuck in a endless cycle of releasing expansions and rasing the level cap up by 10. This then puts off new players who think 2 things when they see lots of expansions 1. The game is too old i'll be too far behind and 2. i don't want to waste my money on all them expansions, even if they come in one pack people still feel like this. This then makes the game all about the end level and all the noob areas go dead and no new content there or anything and they wont be able to make groups etc etc. So you'll eventually have 95% of the game completly useless and not needed and a slowly declining population. - Free expansions. CCP are very smart because they don't make the expansion really widely known as a expansion that would probably put new comers off. Instead they really say to them it's free content and improvements to the game in the size of a expansion and show off nice fancy graphics with it. The current people are just happy that they're getting a expansion and changes to the game for free and this makes me happy because that subscription should pay for all the new content and paying for a expansion seems to be a rip off to me.
- Player driven economy. This really makes people who don't want to go to combat all the time have a game of their own and be able to do much more that combat like trading or crafting items in depth and selling them. I've always thought looted items off Raids and stuff was very flawed and doesn't really open the game up for much.
- No rules. Well Eve has rules but CCP take a very hands off approach leaving in all the systems in the game that would be taken out of other mmorpgs which allow for people to scam and exploit eachother. You can be sure that if you can do it in EVE then it's legal. - Politics. What's great here is every corp is in a alliance battling for supremacy and control. This is what's sooo great about EVE and that's you can actually effect the game and change the gameplay experience for other users. I love how you can capture 0.0 space and make other peoples lives hell. - Open unforgiving PVP where a game is made up purely for PVP. I love this aswel because i play a online game to play against and with other players and i don't play to have PVE on the game so this is what i love because everyones creating their own little stories instead of the developers creating them for you. I also love how the PVP is soo unforgiving and death has a risk to it.
Most important thing for me is the freedom and EVE is the only mmorpg out there that has this. The thing that stops me from playing is the time based skill training which doesn't appeal to me but if CCP were to create another mmorpg, i hope it's alot like this one.
Glorious, another poster who thinks his personal preference constitutes the word of god. Let me try and break down this argument for you.
1)
Noone else has ever gotten it right until they created EVE and while the gameplay might not be to everyones tastes, it's how a mmorpg should work!
nobody else got it right? how are you measuring this past this sentence I just see personal preferences and qualitative expressions. Nothing with any meat to it.
2)
Skill system. Not having levels means not having a end game and thats fantastic because in a online world you want to constantly evolve and not be stuck at the end game with everyone else, you want to be different and not the same.
Not having end game! Endgame is the name for the content once your done the initial leveling. Some people like this. In your case you seem to always want to be leveling and never reaching some sort of target. The problem with this, is it contradicts something you say later in your paragraph. "The game is too old i'll be too far behind". if your worried about falling behind, why would you want there to be no max level. In WoW i can say "8 months, I can catch up, I just play, then I wait for the old content to be obsolete so I can get in with the new and Im good". In EvE no matter how long/hard/well you play, you will NEVER catch up to somebody who is 1..2..3+ years older than you game wise. So this "end game" you argue against is actually a feature to allow people to join the game later, and still be able to compete with those that have been playing for many years.
3)
Player driven economy. This really makes people who don't want to go to combat all the time have a game of their own and be able to do much more that combat like trading or crafting items in depth and selling them. I've always thought looted items off Raids and stuff was very flawed and doesn't really open the game up for much.
For your convenience I've highlighted even more, and underlined a huge problem with this statement. You've said nothing but "cause I think so" which carries no weight with me or most people. WHY do you think that way? give us some meat to chew on.
How is a player driven economy always good? is there times when its bad? Also, I hate to break it to you, but some of the best items in EVE are drops or faction items... which aren't player made.
You cant have a truly player driven economy becuase the money doesn't go in circles. Money is removed from the face of the game when you repair or buy insurance, or sell to and npc etc. Money is created out of thin air when you loot a mob. If you removed NPC's completly, you would have no money sink, and the economy would become so saturated with money, that prices would always be going up and getting into the game after 1,2,3+ years later would be pointless because the prices of everything sold by players would be inflated beyond what you could acquire. Thus if you care to look at it, different games use differing degree's of player drivin economies. But in all, EVE really doesn't have THAT much more than other games. The thing about EVE is that everything is a consumable, which is how they handle draining of isk (eve currency) from the economy.
4)
No rules. Well Eve has rules but CCP take a very hands off approach leaving in all the systems in the game that would be taken out of other mmorpgs which allow for people to scam and exploit eachother. You can be sure that if you can do it in EVE then it's legal.
Some of us don't want to play "real life V2" some of us like to play games that encourage people to play legit and play the game, not each other. Some of us get enough of that crap in the real world.
5)
Politics. What's great here is every corp is in a alliance battling for supremacy and control. This is what's sooo great about EVE and that's you can actually effect the game and change the gameplay experience for other users. I love how you can capture 0.0 space and make other peoples lives hell.
hmmm. I like how you can capture 0.0 space and hold it. Thats cool. So is corp vs corp wars for the more profitable areas of space. I personally dont like making other peoples "lives hell" as it is a game, and if I'm doing that, im taking away from other peoples enjoyment of the game. Which seems to me rather counter productive, discouraging people to play. (see Shadowbane)
And again, some of us aren't looking to play a real life simulator... I deal with enough "hell" and annoying people trying to screw me over in the real world. To assume this is a fun thing for me or other people is just silly.
I will give you the point of allowing corps/alliances to hold space, and having to work hard to keep it, while at the same time giving it value is a really good idea CCP implemented.
6)
Open unforgiving PVP where a game is made up purely for PVP. I love this aswel because i play a online game to play against and with other players and i don't play to have PVE on the game so this is what i love because everyones creating their own little stories instead of the developers creating them for you. I also love how the PVP is soo unforgiving and death has a risk to it.
Well, I do like to play againsed other people. I agree. I like the idea to have it option, which is nice in EvE. The unforgiving nature isn't that unforgiving. You always know what to expect for risk. You go into 0.3-0.1 space and you know your risking pirates. You go into 0.0 space and you know you better be in the alliance that owns this space. You know what your getting into and you only risk what you want to. In this regard is just a simple risk vs reward system.
Besides they need the ships to blow up or the economy would be so over saturated it would be silly.
Well, that pretty much sums up my opinion on this whole thing, I think its very closed minded to say "CCP is the only guys who got it right".
There are millions of people out there that WoW is better than EVE. So how is EVE better?
Sound to me like "you" think EVE is the best, and these are things "you" like in that game. I agree, some of them are cool, but keep in mind, these are all your opinions. To make a Quantitative statement based on qualitative evidence with a sample size of 1 just makes you sound silly.
Instead try "why I think EVE is a step in the right direction for MMORPGs"
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Oh please if this isn't a flamebait thread what is. If CCP is doing so well why is the game doing only marginally in sells? Explain? Why is it that CCP devs are found cheating and help their player friends in game? Disproved? The game does have its good parts, and the free game patches are about par for any MMORPG. (though tyhe patches tend to break alot of things and reset alot of things which is a PITA) A bit more than patches now you are just clutching at straws. and please don't say it takes skill. Gee wize takes alot of skill to join a corp and camp a gate with 10 of your corpmates ganking solo'ers and Newbs, and then moving to another gate to camp when word gets out. Or my other favorite gee takes alot of skill to say humm my enemies using lasers I'll outfit my ships armor/shield to resist heat/emp. I already know I'll be flamed but in truth CCP does get some things right. The graphics are nice the skill learning of time is a interesting/new twist and the game its self does try to cater somewhat to other play styles not just the gank and run crowd. But the Hyper fanbois trying to convince others to try it because they need more fresh meet to gank to show how great they are really aren't doing the game much justice. Now if CCP could do some very simple things like Oh maybe make there be more then just the human race in the game to play it might draw some interest. Guess they didn't want to go against creationist theory and thus in 2 Galaxys the only lifeform beside Humans is the mech drones that humans made. (note for those that don't know there is a big difference between eves 4 cultures and having different races.)
1) Marginal aka average: How many sub do you think Eve has? More then VG or DDO I'm sure, but less then say WoW, Linage2, EQ2 (possibly EQ1 haven't kept up) LoTRO etc. I didn't say Eve was doing poorly but if they are the ONLY company that knows how to make a game you'd think their subs would be up in the top 10% of the major MMO's
2) Really the whole T2 / Bob thing with the dev was disproved?? Odd thought I saw CCP post that they had told the Dev he was a very bad boy and slapped his hands, gave him a 2 week vacation when there was too muich proof from players (that were banned) that the dev and BoB had been caught cheating. If i remember correctly that very same dev is still allowed to play in the game though with a different position, and while the player that proved the dev was cheating was banned, I don't remember any BOB players that benifited from the cheating being banned in fact they got to keep the T2BP's for a fairly long time. BoB leaders still brag how they have the Devs on MSN for stat fixes and such... Yes yes all old news I know but you did say it had all been disproved
3) Umm guess this is a opinion thing. Do you consider the addition of HEAT a expansion, or latter on the slight upgrade to graphics, or way before all that the t2's? Maybe if they all came together one could term them a "expansion" but seperatly spread over 2 years or so they look like patchs to me. You know just like every other respectable MMO does. EQ2, WoW, LoTRO, hell even VG, and DDO add new dungeons, areas, instances, combat changes, added items, spells etc for free all the time and they are for the most part considered patches weither their called live updates etc.. Expansions generally have new races, new classes, new levels, new spells, large new areas, and Alot of other things all released together for a price. While EVE doesn't have levels or classes per say there are alot of other things they could do that would be worthy of being called a real expansion. Still in the end its my opinion on what a expansion is compared to yours
Wow incredably well written Munki, I find myself agreeing almost 100%. I wouldn't expect a reply from the OP on this though as I thihk you shot way too many holes through his arguement with weird things like.. oh.. well LOGIC. Still I guess I shouldn't underestimate the blind / stuburness of hype. (ie its the bestest game ever and will never die because I say so! )
Oh I do play the game BTW I just find comments like "CCP are the ONLY developers who understand how to create a mmorpg" to be so much BS when neither the game nor the Developers of it are perfect.
Oh please if this isn't a flamebait thread what is. If CCP is doing so well why is the game doing only marginally in sells? Explain? Why is it that CCP devs are found cheating and help their player friends in game? Disproved? The game does have its good parts, and the free game patches are about par for any MMORPG. (though tyhe patches tend to break alot of things and reset alot of things which is a PITA) A bit more than patches now you are just clutching at straws. and please don't say it takes skill. Gee wize takes alot of skill to join a corp and camp a gate with 10 of your corpmates ganking solo'ers and Newbs, and then moving to another gate to camp when word gets out. Or my other favorite gee takes alot of skill to say humm my enemies using lasers I'll outfit my ships armor/shield to resist heat/emp. I already know I'll be flamed but in truth CCP does get some things right. The graphics are nice the skill learning of time is a interesting/new twist and the game its self does try to cater somewhat to other play styles not just the gank and run crowd. But the Hyper fanbois trying to convince others to try it because they need more fresh meet to gank to show how great they are really aren't doing the game much justice. Now if CCP could do some very simple things like Oh maybe make there be more then just the human race in the game to play it might draw some interest. Guess they didn't want to go against creationist theory and thus in 2 Galaxys the only lifeform beside Humans is the mech drones that humans made. (note for those that don't know there is a big difference between eves 4 cultures and having different races.)
You know just like every other respectable MMO does. EQ2, WoW, LoTRO, hell even VG, and DDO add new dungeons, areas, instances, combat changes, added items, spells etc for free all the time and they are for the most part considered patches weither their called live updates etc.. Expansions generally have new races, new classes, new levels, new spells, large new areas, and Alot of other things all released together for a price. While EVE doesn't have levels or classes per say there are alot of other things they could do that would be worthy of being called a real expansion. Still in the end its my opinion on what a expansion is compared to yours
Oh my Lord this is the funniest thing i have ever heard this is indeed coming from a true WoW'er now pay attention! While every other Respectable WoW/EQ Clone that has not been innovative for years Released new spells new races new classes BLAH BLAH BLAH! How about the buisness start thinking on theyre own like CCP and make up a new system and actually dare to stand for what they create. Jesus christ oh mighty superstar we do need more icelandic people producing games that can actually think to please those that cannot find a game where you donot kill rabbits or fluffy pink things to get XP To get new spells to be the biggest badest frickin Paladin of the realm casting Heavy Bubbleboy Hammer of lightningthunder of Love and furry pelts ! Please bring me more icelandic producers and innovative people to the MMORPG Industry.
SWG Bria Light Jedi Knight Awok Pre Patch 9. Eve Online - Deja Nay
CCP are not the best in sales, but definitly the best in customer stuff. They learned from the t20-scandal and opened up very much to their players. (Just read all that stuff they posted after that incident. they admitted they had made mistakes. they admit when stuff is broken ingame. they post on the forums, you can visit them in irc.)
And you get to shoot at them on the testserver!
I would not say CCP made the best MMOG, but they are the best DEVS currently working in a mmo!
Comments
CCP are one of the few companies out there who actually are interested in what the customers want. Be it an industrial capital ship (long requested, now reality) or that whole ambulation-thing with "what do you want us to code"-Threads in the forums.
Oh, and they are the only ones who can use obscure starwars and fifht-element-references in their official statements without sounding strange.
"Big-Badaboom-Improvements" or "This-is-not-the-Battleship-you-are-looking-for"-Battleship are things no normal company woudl ever say.
'nuff said
(Examples:
"Once upon a time, Oveur and Hammerhead were sitting down, eating burgers and drinking. They were discussing Factional Warfare and the 101 design documents we had on it. Then they drank some more and had an inspiration and in an attempt to be cool game developers and creative types they wrote their ideas down on a napkin. The result of this got drawn up on our internal design tracking system the next day.
[...]
After that we tried to shoehorn it into our November expansion. Unfortunately, after a thorough review of the design it was decided that we couldnt squeeze it in without adversely affecting the patch and the deployment of Factional Warfare as a feature we were happy with.
"Yet Again!" - I hear you say. Yes, we feel your pain as well, but we want to give you a finished feature rather than just chucking out tons of new cool stuff. To implement Factional Warfare we would have had to move programmers away from fixing and improving things into creating Factional Warfare, and this simply wasnt acceptable to us."
Personal Favourite:
"Want your tacklers to hear you sing "It's Britney Bitch!" but keep your damage dealers oblivious because they might express their displeasure with guns? Done."
EVE/CCP is one of the few games that found a good balance between PVP/PVE. really well put together game I agree. too bad most of the pop here at this site havent really played it. It would open up there eyes to something beyond classes/levels
But to enjoy eve you probably need to be the type of guy (there are no females in eve. ever.) who at least understands half of this and that
eh too much of a niche group will play that and i cant see it going very far, much to many disappointments.
Eve is successful precisely because it is a niche game. it doesn't appeal to everyone, and it doesn't try to. Those it does appeal to have a hard time fitting in in other MMOs, for whatever reason. I imagine their new MMO will be successful for exactly the same reason.
Also CCP's policy of making all expansions free and overhauling the graphics every couple of years have given the game a lot more longevity than most MMOs. Eve is one of the oldest games out there and is still growing.
The BIGGEST flaw in EVE is its hyped about feature. PVP.
PVP in EVE is NOT fun.
I have played both the victim and victor in PVP on EVE.
Most of the time, it's a bunch of ships versus one poorly equipped ship. Usually taking place at jump gates where they cannot defend themselves nor escape too well. Waiting at a gate for a ship to come through and then blow it up wasn't too thrilling either. The jump gates in EVE play too much of a role of creating choke points; I want to play in unlimited space, not on an intergalactic high way.
Also, the losses of skills, ship and equipment discourages any true PVP. You usually have an ass of a time buying your ship and equipment back. Not to mention time consuming.
I ended up doing rat missions until I quit from boredom.
The feeling I got from this game was pretty looking rooms with NPCs in them, than the feeling of an actual space setting where things should happen with out me setting off a trigger.
Was quite disappointed with EVE. Pretty graphics and realistic economy doesn't compensate for the lack of fun.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
The CCP teams approach to community relations was very refreshing and I still respect them for their openness to the community. It took a bit of a hit IMO with the scandals, but still compared to other MMOs it ranks very high for customer interaction.
The game itself has many new ideas and is both wide and deep with content mainly because the community drives it. Its biggest downfall is time investment. If you are looking for a game to get really deep into and have years to dedicate, than there really is no other choice. If you just want to jump into a game for the pure fun of it, don't even consider it.
As far as the thread is concerned, CCP knows how to make what they make, but is not the only company that knows how to create an MMO. I played EvE for 1.5 years and got my monies worth, but in the end i just didn't have the time to go any further into the game. Other games now suit my needs just fine now and don't require me to invest even 1/10th of the time to get this fun.
Most of all, enjoy what you are playing or move on and support other games. We don't want all MMOs to be like EvE, or WoW, or .... There will be a time when you will need to give up EvE and play something less intense.
Azure, i just started eve after maybe year long break and i havent been gate camped once yet. The warp to 0km feature helps a lot against camps in low sec.
I love the concept of Eve and wish I could get into playing.
The only problems I have with Eve are the following:
in order of importance:
1) Learning curve is too steep
2) I want Jumpgate type control, instead of point and click (flying with a joystick, sim style) even if combat is still roll based.
3) Collision with space stations and asteroids (not other players)
4) An avatar that walks around inside space stations that is highly customizeable ala SWG/EQ2/VG
Change 1 through 3 and I'll become a hopeless addict (4 is purely fluff), as it stands now I really want to play, but just cant force myself to do it.... dammit now that you brought this up I have to try yet another free trial of eve =-(
P.S.- I'm hoping Jumpgate Evolution will be my game... I would play Jumpgate now but the population is just too low.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
I know about that feature. But doesn't help you when you're in null security sector you just gated into. And once you're in the system, there's a bunch of ships assisted by an interdictor with a warp scrambler field waiting for you. You can't even make it back to the gate you came from after you de-cloak. I was in a shuttle even. Heh.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Thats perfectly normal in 0.0.
People OWN that space, and they want their own little kingdom there with their rules.
And they dislike strangers there! (Mostly)
I personally live in 0.0 as a freelancer. I have access to several intelchannels and get warned early if there are enemies reported anywhere in the Region.
Any i get some nice PvP with equal forces often
I think the best part about the Learning skill system in Eve online is that it sorts out the impatient Youngsters and kids which is very noticeable wherever you go in Eve online since the average Eve player is in theyre late 20 and young 30's.
Another point which is great in Eve online is that you can have a life, you can have a family to tend for, you can have a fulltime job without pretending to be sick so you can stay home and raid. This is also why so many adults choose Eve online compared to for example Lineage 2, Wow and other i kill a rabbit i get XP games.
The skill system is passive which means yeah i may work 12 hours a day but i can still compete with the other ones that play all day long when i get home.
And everyone that says that it is to late to catch up, people have skilled for 4 years i may never catch up with them now ?. That is correct you will not catch up with them but there are so many variables of PVP the only ones that actually take long time to skill upto is Capital PVP which is the endgame in EVE onlines journey for world domination, however this endgame machine if trained from scratch only takes about 3 - 6 months to accomplish to be able to pvp with you may not have the best skills for it but you are well to hold youre own against none capital pilots.
The biggest mistake new players does in eve online is that they spread out theyre skillpoints by wanting todo everything at once. Instead read up on what shiptypes you like what roles it fills which one is great for solo pvp or gang pvp read up on a ship that really fits youre gamestyle then you train only for that ship and the gunnery or missile skills for that ship and you can be done with all those skills within 2 weeks to 3 months depending on ship allthough you will of course be able to pvp with it long before that the 3 months are only when you master the skills and train those itty bitty top end skills of that tree.
Now have fun and remember even though the tutorial is 3 hours long Eve is a very complicated machine without the tutorial you will be confused then sad then bored then quit its great to sort out the youngsters from the mature ones !
Deja Nay Carrier/Dread pilot and Super capital Producer.
SWG Bria Light Jedi Knight Awok Pre Patch 9.
Eve Online - Deja Nay
I'm a bit pressed for time so not going to go into detail. I will just say this. I couldn't disagree with your more, OP.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
CCP are also the only developers that ask you to sign a 'lifetime commitment' just to be able to play EVE. I mean you'll literally have to consider EVE your second 'marriage' in your 30's (suppose you start playing at 21 years of age) as you struggle to keep up with people who started earlier than you and will always have an advantage over you because skills are both easy to train,but too long to complete.
Still,at least for X bucks/euros/pounds a month you get a nice mature social community. One that's on par with Second Life for being helpful and talkative.
Couldnt disagree more with you, Roin.
Same for Suit, who obviously didnt understand eves skillsystem.
If you do concentrate youre skills for one ship you can easyly compete with someone that has skilled for 4 years because they have concentrated on several ships over those years and months and you can only go so far on the skill trees so a 4 month old Player may very well fly an Interceptor or Heavy assault cruiser with as good skills as someone who has skilled and played for 4 years.
SWG Bria Light Jedi Knight Awok Pre Patch 9.
Eve Online - Deja Nay
EvE's skill system works just fine for eve as its got little to do with charecter advancment.
And the charecter customisation is actually better than most MMO's.
Unless you can come up with some good examples to say otherwise tho?
Agreed with previous poster that this sort of attitude is why people can't stand the majority of EVE players. I disagree with two of your points and suddenly I'm "to (sic) used to being spoon fed in standard cookie Cutter MMO's (sic) then?"
Character creation in EVE is dismal. You don't even make a full character, you make a mugshot. Sure you get a lot of options making this mugshot but at the end of the day that's all it is. Even after playing for a few hours you start to notice that there's really only a few different faces that people actually use, especially at the tiny size you see them at they all start to look the same. Also factor in that most new players have to start as certain culture/profession combos just so that they can have some prayer of being viable at any part of the game that's actually fun and you see EVE is much more "cookie cutter" in it's character creation than most other MMORPGs. Even World of Warcraft you see some diversity in race and class choices. Look at games like Lineage 2 or the upcoming Age of Conan or Pirates of the Burning Sea for games that offer real character customization. In fact, I challenge you to name one MMORPG that EVE has better character customization than. Just one.
Now the skill system...oh lord the skill system.
First, it doesn't reward skill or effort, it rewards the amount of time you've had an account. Where's the sense of accomplishing anything here? Even if we assume that's an acceptable way to run a game, it could only work if you capped the skills at say, six months. Instead the game's been out for years now and afaik nobody has all the skills and people are training stuff that takes multiple months to train?!? It's a rather silly way to hide the fact that there's no end-game content. At the end of the day the people who've been around longer in EVE will win and that's just sorta silly. I much prefer an approach where it's a few months to max level and then the real PvP begins, with relative new players able to go toe to toe with the veterans. Pirates of the Burning Sea has the right idea here. A skill system that rewards accomplishment and doesn't make it impossible for new players to get involved. Oh, and has actual end-game content worth playing for.
Keep in mind that I agree with the OP on every other point. It just is aggravating when someone says "oh you don't like game X you must be a newb lol"
"At the end of the day the people who've been around longer in EVE will win"
Thats why goonswarm is so successful, right?
It ain't the end of the day yet.
No matter which Alliance will "win", they will split up because 0.0 got boring..
Its the brains that will be successful. Be it massive sp like in bob or massive amount of players with low sp in goonswarm or the better tactics of mercenary coalition or anyone else, its just not enough. I have seen so many forces of vets beaten by fcs who could use many dedicated newbies to crush their enemy..
I played Eve for about a week and quit out of sheer boredom. Actually I think out of that week I really only "played" for about a day.
My biggest complaint about Eve is that it's so automated. Want to go somewhere? Set your jump gates then come back in 15 minutes. Skills? Well, we all know how skills are. They should rename it because Skills is definitely a misnomer.
Another complaint is that while it's great that there is only 1 server and the galaxy is huge but that also a problem. In the week I played I saw actual other people maybe 3 times in total. Unless you're in a hotly contested area Eve is very empty.
Don't think I even need to say how much of a joke the PVE content is.
Pretty much the only "positive" thing about Eve is the FFA PvP and if you're not into that then Eve is a waste.
Glorious, another poster who thinks his personal preference constitutes the word of god. Let me try and break down this argument for you.
1)
nobody else got it right? how are you measuring this past this sentence I just see personal preferences and qualitative expressions. Nothing with any meat to it.
2)
Not having end game! Endgame is the name for the content once your done the initial leveling. Some people like this. In your case you seem to always want to be leveling and never reaching some sort of target. The problem with this, is it contradicts something you say later in your paragraph. "The game is too old i'll be too far behind". if your worried about falling behind, why would you want there to be no max level. In WoW i can say "8 months, I can catch up, I just play, then I wait for the old content to be obsolete so I can get in with the new and Im good". In EvE no matter how long/hard/well you play, you will NEVER catch up to somebody who is 1..2..3+ years older than you game wise. So this "end game" you argue against is actually a feature to allow people to join the game later, and still be able to compete with those that have been playing for many years.
3)
For your convenience I've highlighted even more, and underlined a huge problem with this statement. You've said nothing but "cause I think so" which carries no weight with me or most people. WHY do you think that way? give us some meat to chew on.
How is a player driven economy always good? is there times when its bad? Also, I hate to break it to you, but some of the best items in EVE are drops or faction items... which aren't player made.
You cant have a truly player driven economy becuase the money doesn't go in circles. Money is removed from the face of the game when you repair or buy insurance, or sell to and npc etc. Money is created out of thin air when you loot a mob. If you removed NPC's completly, you would have no money sink, and the economy would become so saturated with money, that prices would always be going up and getting into the game after 1,2,3+ years later would be pointless because the prices of everything sold by players would be inflated beyond what you could acquire. Thus if you care to look at it, different games use differing degree's of player drivin economies. But in all, EVE really doesn't have THAT much more than other games. The thing about EVE is that everything is a consumable, which is how they handle draining of isk (eve currency) from the economy.
4)
Some of us don't want to play "real life V2" some of us like to play games that encourage people to play legit and play the game, not each other. Some of us get enough of that crap in the real world.
5)
hmmm. I like how you can capture 0.0 space and hold it. Thats cool. So is corp vs corp wars for the more profitable areas of space. I personally dont like making other peoples "lives hell" as it is a game, and if I'm doing that, im taking away from other peoples enjoyment of the game. Which seems to me rather counter productive, discouraging people to play. (see Shadowbane)
And again, some of us aren't looking to play a real life simulator... I deal with enough "hell" and annoying people trying to screw me over in the real world. To assume this is a fun thing for me or other people is just silly.
I will give you the point of allowing corps/alliances to hold space, and having to work hard to keep it, while at the same time giving it value is a really good idea CCP implemented.
6)
Well, I do like to play againsed other people. I agree. I like the idea to have it option, which is nice in EvE. The unforgiving nature isn't that unforgiving. You always know what to expect for risk. You go into 0.3-0.1 space and you know your risking pirates. You go into 0.0 space and you know you better be in the alliance that owns this space. You know what your getting into and you only risk what you want to. In this regard is just a simple risk vs reward system.
Besides they need the ships to blow up or the economy would be so over saturated it would be silly.
Well, that pretty much sums up my opinion on this whole thing, I think its very closed minded to say "CCP is the only guys who got it right".
There are millions of people out there that WoW is better than EVE. So how is EVE better?
Sound to me like "you" think EVE is the best, and these are things "you" like in that game. I agree, some of them are cool, but keep in mind, these are all your opinions. To make a Quantitative statement based on qualitative evidence with a sample size of 1 just makes you sound silly.
Instead try "why I think EVE is a step in the right direction for MMORPGs"
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
1) Marginal aka average: How many sub do you think Eve has? More then VG or DDO I'm sure, but less then say WoW, Linage2, EQ2 (possibly EQ1 haven't kept up) LoTRO etc. I didn't say Eve was doing poorly but if they are the ONLY company that knows how to make a game you'd think their subs would be up in the top 10% of the major MMO's
2) Really the whole T2 / Bob thing with the dev was disproved?? Odd thought I saw CCP post that they had told the Dev he was a very bad boy and slapped his hands, gave him a 2 week vacation when there was too muich proof from players (that were banned) that the dev and BoB had been caught cheating. If i remember correctly that very same dev is still allowed to play in the game though with a different position, and while the player that proved the dev was cheating was banned, I don't remember any BOB players that benifited from the cheating being banned in fact they got to keep the T2BP's for a fairly long time. BoB leaders still brag how they have the Devs on MSN for stat fixes and such... Yes yes all old news I know but you did say it had all been disproved
3) Umm guess this is a opinion thing. Do you consider the addition of HEAT a expansion, or latter on the slight upgrade to graphics, or way before all that the t2's? Maybe if they all came together one could term them a "expansion" but seperatly spread over 2 years or so they look like patchs to me. You know just like every other respectable MMO does. EQ2, WoW, LoTRO, hell even VG, and DDO add new dungeons, areas, instances, combat changes, added items, spells etc for free all the time and they are for the most part considered patches weither their called live updates etc.. Expansions generally have new races, new classes, new levels, new spells, large new areas, and Alot of other things all released together for a price. While EVE doesn't have levels or classes per say there are alot of other things they could do that would be worthy of being called a real expansion. Still in the end its my opinion on what a expansion is compared to yours
Wow incredably well written Munki, I find myself agreeing almost 100%. I wouldn't expect a reply from the OP on this though as I thihk you shot way too many holes through his arguement with weird things like.. oh.. well LOGIC. Still I guess I shouldn't underestimate the blind / stuburness of hype. (ie its the bestest game ever and will never die because I say so!
)
Oh I do play the game BTW I just find comments like "CCP are the ONLY developers who understand how to create a mmorpg" to be so much BS when neither the game nor the Developers of it are perfect.
Oh my Lord this is the funniest thing i have ever heard this is indeed coming from a true WoW'er now pay attention! While every other Respectable WoW/EQ Clone that has not been innovative for years Released new spells new races new classes BLAH BLAH BLAH! How about the buisness start thinking on theyre own like CCP and make up a new system and actually dare to stand for what they create.Jesus christ oh mighty superstar we do need more icelandic people producing games that can actually think to please those that cannot find a game where you donot kill rabbits or fluffy pink things to get XP To get new spells to be the biggest badest frickin Paladin of the realm casting Heavy Bubbleboy Hammer of lightningthunder of Love and furry pelts !
Please bring me more icelandic producers and innovative people to the MMORPG Industry.
SWG Bria Light Jedi Knight Awok Pre Patch 9.
Eve Online - Deja Nay
CCP are not the best in sales, but definitly the best in customer stuff. They learned from the t20-scandal and opened up very much to their players.
(Just read all that stuff they posted after that incident. they admitted they had made mistakes. they admit when stuff is broken ingame. they post on the forums, you can visit them in irc.)
And you get to shoot at them on the testserver!
I would not say CCP made the best MMOG, but they are the best DEVS currently working in a mmo!