I have an agenda, and I freely and honestly admit it: I am out to hurt SOE as much as possible, so that the company continues to suffer consequences for immoral and unethical acts against myself and other victims of the worst disaster in the history of MMOs, the CUNGE.
SOE can stop me tomorrow if they offer an actual apology TO us, and classic servers OR shuts down SWG completely.
Closure= end of SWG or SWG classic returning.
Until then I will continue to harm SOE by haunting them with their own words and actions.
I think that prospective players of SWG and other SOE games are served by being armed with knowledge of what kind of heartache they may be getting themselves into by investing into SWG or any other SOE title.
Man if u dont like SOE, dont buy their product...end of story.....i am sick of I HATE SOE threads, get a life people...
Yeah we have lives we live to bash SOE. And why not ? They earned our enimity with there callous treatment of us, there customers. People who tolerated SOE's shoddy,shady handling of a MMO that most of us enjoyed playing even with all its flaws that we would still be playing if they hadnt crapped all over us. That most of us havent found a replacement for yet which equals time on our hands to bitch about SOE. If SOE wanted to stop the hate all they have to do is offer preCU or shut it down and i will go away. But until then they should be hounded at every step with all the vitriol that can be mustered.
If for no other reason than to keep the other MMO makers out there honest .
Man if u dont like SOE, dont buy their product...end of story.....i am sick of I HATE SOE threads, get a life people...
If we dont like soe dont by their products....if your sick of these threads dont read them. See how that works?
QFE.
I have to give Tenebroso a kudos on the avatar though....that is the most effed up thing i think i've ever seen...lol I seriously crack up every time I see it.
Umm wow wasn't NGE what 3 years ago? Now I'm sure people have told you this before but really you need to get over it and let it go.
Time does not make an injustice go away.
That would just be complacency, and that would do more harm to us then good as MMO gamers.
I never said one should be complacent. As I said we vote with our wallets. Don't like the game theres the cancill button. Does lost revenue from from players unhappy with bad choices (ie NGE) hurt companies? Yes it does.
Revenge however is not the answer. The Whole Sony must die because SOE did the great Injustice of NGE is just sooo much BS. Will killing Sony bring back the SWG you knew and loved , no. Will putting thousands of Sony employes out of work almost all of them innocent of ever doing you amy harm make up for what a few did to your game, especially when the few that actually are guilty and had a say in it will still retire millionares regardless?? (Not talking about the Devs whose choice was basically do NGE or be fired but then maybe you all believe they should have somehow taken the moral high road and got fired to so your game wasn't touched. Not that that would have changed anything as SOE would have just hired new ones to do the NGE)
No in the end the death of Sony would just hurt alot of innocent people and hurt gaming in general as less investors would invest in the gaming market and less Devs would try anything new (Hello lets have some more Wow clones thats nice and safe)
And be real you all lying to yourselves saying if SOE apologised to you you'd go away we know that is all so much BS as well as you already stated you have to much time on your hands and nothing productive to do about it but bitch about the NGE that was 3 years ago. Injustice?!?! Really please read the newpapers theres plenty of real injusticew in the real world mayhaps some of you should bitch at those things as much as you do here and the world might be a better place.
Ok Ok didn't mean to get preachy but really some of you need to step back and take a look at yourselves.
Revenge is the only answer. SOE denies us our game, we do whatever we can to deny SOE what they want.
Money. Reputation. Whatever.
That is what my agenda is. Smed can end this war whenever he wants to by reinstating our game and apologizing.
Until then, we keep reloading the nukes. Ironically our nukes are armed with the ammo SOE, Smed, Noob, and all their other people give us. We don't need to do anything except point out their own words, lies, actions, inactions, deceptions, abuse. It's an unwinnable propoganda war from SOE's perspective because they've given us all the anti-propoganda we will ever need times 1000 to beat them.
This is a war. It was declared on 4/27/2005... It went nuclear 11/15/2005.
The clock is ticking. Before too long we will have our game back whether Smed does it or not.
We, the disgruntled Vets strive for VS day... Victory over Smed day. The day Smed unconditionally surrenders to the Pre-CU vets and gives us our game back.
Or gets fired. Whichever is sooner.
Frankly, letting SOE give us our game back and Smed and his minions saving themselves over the money they'd make over it would be the wuss way out for us. I hope they continue to be too dumb to do that, since the difference between SOE giving us our game back, or US giving us our game back is a matter of weeks to months... And it narrows every day. Sooner or later SOE becomes irrelevant. Oh won't that be sweet!
One of the strongest weapon against unethical and immoral practices towards a community is for the community to get organized and notify publicly.
If we vets don't had continued our effords then $OE would not have implemented things like Beastmaster back into game. We make them move thier as.....
We just started , we won't accept this low service and crap implementation of the origin Star Wars Universe idea was, and a true Star Wars fan never will do.
$OE
bring back 32 professions back and the rich experience we had with them,
get rid of lvl and classes brinbg back profession mix match.
get rid of crappy FPS Combat , bring back the classic cool combat style
get rid of Jedi as starter prof , you make the soul of Star Wars looking like a joke that way.
etc....There 1000 more things that have to be reimplemented..
So /deepbow to all $OE hater you all help to get a better SW MMORPG.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Revenge is the only answer. SOE denies us our game, we do whatever we can to deny SOE what they want. Money. Reputation. Whatever. That is what my agenda is. Smed can end this war whenever he wants to by reinstating our game and apologizing. Until then, we keep reloading the nukes. Ironically our nukes are armed with the ammo SOE, Smed, Noob, and all their other people give us. We don't need to do anything except point out their own words, lies, actions, inactions, deceptions, abuse. It's an unwinnable propoganda war from SOE's perspective because they've given us all the anti-propoganda we will ever need times 1000 to beat them. This is a war. It was declared on 4/27/2005... It went nuclear 11/15/2005. The clock is ticking. Before too long we will have our game back whether Smed does it or not. We, the disgruntled Vets strive for VS day... Victory over Smed day. The day Smed unconditionally surrenders to the Pre-CU vets and gives us our game back. Or gets fired. Whichever is sooner. Frankly, letting SOE give us our game back and Smed and his minions saving themselves over the money they'd make over it would be the wuss way out for us. I hope they continue to be too dumb to do that, since the difference between SOE giving us our game back, or US giving us our game back is a matter of weeks to months... And it narrows every day. Sooner or later SOE becomes irrelevant. Oh won't that be sweet!
Hummm hate to break it to you, but your never gonna get your pre NGE/cu SWG back its gone. If SOE had the power which they don't as NGE was a joint decission with the IP people not SOE"'s alone they would have changed it back before now (some 3 years later). Its become more and more of a non-issue to them today as more players try and some actually enjoy SWG post NGE.
I imagine Smed and the very few other people that actually had a hand in the NGE laugh about these threads sure it hurts They'll maybe retire with 10 million instead of 20 (Oh the humanity!) and that is if somehow you actually managed to put Sony and several thousand innocent employs that didn't even have anything to do with NGE or SWG out of jobs. Tell me any of you don't actually think Smed and the other big wigs that decided to pull the NGE don't have gold parachuts, and if SOE went under they wouldn't just get a job at Blizzard or Vivendi or some other game company .
Once again yes what SOE did was wrong and it sucks, and most of us voted with our wallets. Like it or not Hate and anger are normal human emotions when they come and go but when they stay and take root and your whole life revolves around them then theres a problem.
Last thought here being even if SOE magically ressurected SWG pre-NGE it still wouldn't be the SWG you knew and loved as for most it was the community that made the game almost as much as the game mechanics, and most of the community has put this issue to rest, and moved on. Many even stating they would never play another SOE title again even if they brought back pre-NGE/cu. In SWG as in life there really is no going back.
Revenge is the only answer. SOE denies us our game, we do whatever we can to deny SOE what they want. Money. Reputation. Whatever. That is what my agenda is. Smed can end this war whenever he wants to by reinstating our game and apologizing. Until then, we keep reloading the nukes. Ironically our nukes are armed with the ammo SOE, Smed, Noob, and all their other people give us. We don't need to do anything except point out their own words, lies, actions, inactions, deceptions, abuse. It's an unwinnable propoganda war from SOE's perspective because they've given us all the anti-propoganda we will ever need times 1000 to beat them. This is a war. It was declared on 4/27/2005... It went nuclear 11/15/2005. The clock is ticking. Before too long we will have our game back whether Smed does it or not. We, the disgruntled Vets strive for VS day... Victory over Smed day. The day Smed unconditionally surrenders to the Pre-CU vets and gives us our game back. Or gets fired. Whichever is sooner. Frankly, letting SOE give us our game back and Smed and his minions saving themselves over the money they'd make over it would be the wuss way out for us. I hope they continue to be too dumb to do that, since the difference between SOE giving us our game back, or US giving us our game back is a matter of weeks to months... And it narrows every day. Sooner or later SOE becomes irrelevant. Oh won't that be sweet!
Hmmm...I can't even begin to point out how seriously warped this post is. You realize your severely pathetic and need professional help right? Not to mention if even the slightest whiff of a emu project (like I assume your bizarre Unabomber-esque post hints at) hits Lucasarts nostrils you'll be spending more time in Fed prison then you've probably spent alive on Earth.
Again, seriously pathetic..go play with your dolls or something.
BTW, I played SWG classic, thought the whole game sucked and was surprised at the re-vamp rather than them just shutting the pathetic thing down. If they bring back Classic, the game will still suck
Some people are a bit extreme, but I do agree...they have screwed over a fine Star Wars experience. And how? With jedi. I can understand there being 2 or 3 jedi, per server, but not when anyone can be a jedi, with little work, or, as they've now made it, people being able to start as jedi. It messes with the Star Wars time line. Jedi were only recently killed off to near-extinction, so...several million jedi running around is a very poor idea. As much fun as it can be, it ruins the story. Now, if they removed jedi, and simply made it nearly impossible to be one, and add a sever limit to the number of jedi, it would help, greatly. And yes, they should add the old kick to jedi, to make it worth it, but also, add the loss of jedi slots if you die, too often. THat's my thought, at least.
I never said one should be complacent. As I said we vote with our wallets. Don't like the game theres the cancill button. Does lost revenue from from players unhappy with bad choices (ie NGE) hurt companies? Yes it does.
Revenge however is not the answer. The Whole Sony must die because SOE did the great Injustice of NGE is just sooo much BS. Will killing Sony bring back the SWG you knew and loved , no. Will putting thousands of Sony employes out of work almost all of them innocent of ever doing you amy harm make up for what a few did to your game, especially when the few that actually are guilty and had a say in it will still retire millionares regardless?? (Not talking about the Devs whose choice was basically do NGE or be fired but then maybe you all believe they should have somehow taken the moral high road and got fired to so your game wasn't touched. Not that that would have changed anything as SOE would have just hired new ones to do the NGE) No in the end the death of Sony would just hurt alot of innocent people and hurt gaming in general as less investors would invest in the gaming market and less Devs would try anything new (Hello lets have some more Wow clones thats nice and safe) And be real you all lying to yourselves saying if SOE apologised to you you'd go away we know that is all so much BS as well as you already stated you have to much time on your hands and nothing productive to do about it but bitch about the NGE that was 3 years ago. Injustice?!?! Really please read the newpapers theres plenty of real injusticew in the real world mayhaps some of you should bitch at those things as much as you do here and the world might be a better place. Ok Ok didn't mean to get preachy but really some of you need to step back and take a look at yourselves.
Please don't make the assumption that I'm not concerned about world events because I don't talk about it in a gaming forum.
However, my concern over the NGE is much more then just about my game. It's also about the impact it could have on the industry as a whole. We have very few rights when buying and subscribing to an MMO, and the NGE had really shown this to me. I believe we need more rights as consumers and subscibers to MMO's. I think the seemingly harmless litte tag of "gameplay may change" gives the developers far too much power over a game in which people essentially have to pre-pay for their game time.
So here I am, questioning the absolute power SOE has over their subscribers who have pre-paid for their game time. If the NGE is considered a success then what's next? What game is safe? To not speak out agaisnt such radical changes, and hold a company accoutable, then these kinds of pervasive conversions would continue throughout the industry causing a total distrust of all MMO developers.
I don't want this industry to become that. I want to be assured that once I subscribe to a game then the definition of what that game is will not morph into something else, and one way I can help for this to happen is to speak out.
I'm long past caring about a pre-CU server, but I'm not past caring about the industry in general. We all know that developing MMO's are costly. But in order for the industry to move forward we have to rely on developers with deep pockets. If we don't push companies like SOE to do more then this genre will be stuck in perpetual stagnation.
It is beyond my fathom that soe couldn't just snag a few of their dozens of servers and switch them back to pre nge rules. The twelve year olds that just want to be jedi and swing a lightsaber can stick to the new game and all of us that like SWG can switch back to the game we love. Yes I know it would take time and tons of code work to factor in all the updates and what have you, but for them to ignore so many players that are and have been angry since the day the switch happen is just stupid and bad business. It could happen, soe just happens to be a giant corporation that is stubborn and feels as though it never makes mistakes. When SWG first came out it was something that I don't think the gaming world had ever seen, a truly challenging mmo for a mature audience. Not mature in the sense of gore, but in the sense of complexity. I'm sure everything that I've said has been said a dozen times on this very same post , but like many of you I just need to vent. In the end I think there are two groups of people that hold the blame for SWG's demise; first obviously soe for crumbling under pressure and changing a near perfect game, but the second is players. Most mmo players like a certain simplicity, and I'm not saying that's bad. There certainly is a place in the gaming world for WoW and all of its clones. However, when a game like SWG comes along that is different I get the feeling that a lot of gamers shoot it down rather than take the time to dig deeper into the game and truly figure out the system. Like it or not soe and all game companies are out to make loot and if they feel they can attract more business by dumbing down a game then ten times out of ten they're going to do that. Until the gaming community as a whole put our feet down and collectively say that we're not content with another version of Wow with different skins it will continue to happen. Rant over.
Each and every day SOE loses money because of the NGE and the war they started with us. Each day there are multitudes of people who quit their games who are not replaced because those who could replace them are dissuaded from choosing SOE because they are armed with information about the company and their unethical practices.
SOE has lost far more money than just the SWG losses, the kick to the groin their reputation took with the callous disregard for an entire player base they displayed, IN PUBLIC, even braggadociously has cascaded across their entire product line. It also doesn't help that the rest of Sony also has a piss poor reputation, what with the PS3 overpricing, PS2 defects scandal, the rootkit scam, participation in CD price fixing, etc, etc...
"The NGE question" gets asked and will continue to come up with EVERY project SOE touches, even those they (for now, see Vanguard) don't have any hand in controlling development (ie: Gods and Heroes, Pirates of the Burning Sea). SOE games will continue to underperform. The end for them will be when their 2008 slate of new games falls on it's ass.
Even if SOE LOST money on them operationally, doing SWG classic servers would in the end MAKE them far more money because it'd end the argument. Every time someone like me bashes them, they can say, "see, we listened, we gave you your game back, why aren't you playing it?"
This is why I can't understand why they haven't done this... It's SUCH a no brainer. Besides, we know that classic SWG servers would NOT lose money, they'd bring in a lot more money. The NGE fiasco has become so infamous in the industry that there are thousands who never played pre NGE that would, just to see what the fuss was all about.
Of course, their window is fast closing. Before long, as I said, SOE offering or not offering classic servers will be IRRELEVANT to the argument. Once we, the many, the pissed off, have an alternate SWG that does NOT involve being beholden to SOE and their notoriously unethical and inept management, a SOE offering of SWG classic will be seen as a weak "me too" response.
If SOE doesn't open classic SWG by Christmas, they are through.
Each and every day SOE loses money because of the NGE and the war they started with us. Each day there are multitudes of people who quit their games who are not replaced because those who could replace them are dissuaded from choosing SOE because they are armed with information about the company and their unethical practices. SOE has lost far more money than just the SWG losses, the kick to the groin their reputation took with the callous disregard for an entire player base they displayed, IN PUBLIC, even braggadociously has cascaded across their entire product line. It also doesn't help that the rest of Sony also has a piss poor reputation, what with the PS3 overpricing, PS2 defects scandal, the rootkit scam, participation in CD price fixing, etc, etc... "The NGE question" gets asked and will continue to come up with EVERY project SOE touches, even those they (for now, see Vanguard) don't have any hand in controlling development (ie: Gods and Heroes, Pirates of the Burning Sea). SOE games will continue to underperform. The end for them will be when their 2008 slate of new games falls on it's ass. Even if SOE LOST money on them operationally, doing SWG classic servers would in the end MAKE them far more money because it'd end the argument. Every time someone like me bashes them, they can say, "see, we listened, we gave you your game back, why aren't you playing it?" This is why I can't understand why they haven't done this... It's SUCH a no brainer. Besides, we know that classic SWG servers would NOT lose money, they'd bring in a lot more money. The NGE fiasco has become so infamous in the industry that there are thousands who never played pre NGE that would, just to see what the fuss was all about. Of course, their window is fast closing. Before long, as I said, SOE offering or not offering classic servers will be IRRELEVANT to the argument. Once we, the many, the pissed off, have an alternate SWG that does NOT involve being beholden to SOE and their notoriously unethical and inept management, a SOE offering of SWG classic will be seen as a weak "me too" response. If SOE doesn't open classic SWG by Christmas, they are through.
Is this really how the the bitter SWG vet/soe hater thinks? It's delusional. You haven't come to grips with the fact that you, the former playerbase, as a demographic are largely meaningless to SOE now. They have their target demographic, the current players of SWG, and are earning (enough) money from them. They have no business interest in serving you and yet you have this twisted set of expectations that you are owed something and that SOE should take a business hit to either support an old version of the game that can't earn them money or shut down their current revenue generating version of it.
Of course they could toss a few pre-cu servers up. But, then they have a very bugged, difficult to support game sitting there with no new content and their name is all over it. SOE really couldn't charge money for that (and they know it) so that would then mean the NGE crowd would have to subsidize it at the expense of their game -- that just won't fly. Pre-CU has been retired. It makes no business sense to bring it back and the sense of entitlement that some of you feel is most disturbing. You paid for the service and you used it. You didn't like the changes made and thus you cancelled. That's where your entitlement ended.
Will the NGE question get asked again and again? Sure will. Will it have any real impact on the gaming community? Doubtful. For one, when the SOE marketing department comes in for a new venture, they add another slice or two -- the disgruntled former SOE player and the fringe disgruntled SOE player. They may spend a little time to woo that latter group but the former aren't even considered part of the revenue-generating population. Rick Saada wrote the same thing when PotBS signed the publishing contract: We've factored the small population of you in but your dedication to avoiding SOE won't matter much to us. Any other impact? Perhaps people will reconsider lifetime or at least longterm subscriptions in lieu of sticking to month to month. Still, anyone stuck in a longterm subscription purchase plan when NGE hit should have been able to get their money back for the unused time--I have no doubt SOE would have done it immediately, just like refunding the ToOW purchasers who did not like the changes. Again, that's where the entitlement ends....
If I recall correctly, SOE was getting hammered with BBB complaints a couple years back (as well as Sony) and they became a major sponsor to stop it from being an avenue of complaint.
Exactly,
Everyone and everything has a price...
in this case, it would appear that for BBB... it was Sony's "Diamond" Sponsorship.
They (Sony) must have had A TON of flak to have to resort to "Diamond" with the BBB.
So what has the BBB done while "on the payroll" for SOE? Your implications could be a serious accusation: what exactly are you suggesting?
Revenge is the only answer. SOE denies us our game, we do whatever we can to deny SOE what they want. Money. Reputation. Whatever. That is what my agenda is. Smed can end this war whenever he wants to by reinstating our game and apologizing. Until then, we keep reloading the nukes. Ironically our nukes are armed with the ammo SOE, Smed, Noob, and all their other people give us. We don't need to do anything except point out their own words, lies, actions, inactions, deceptions, abuse. It's an unwinnable propoganda war from SOE's perspective because they've given us all the anti-propoganda we will ever need times 1000 to beat them. This is a war. It was declared on 4/27/2005... It went nuclear 11/15/2005. The clock is ticking. Before too long we will have our game back whether Smed does it or not. We, the disgruntled Vets strive for VS day... Victory over Smed day. The day Smed unconditionally surrenders to the Pre-CU vets and gives us our game back. Or gets fired. Whichever is sooner. Frankly, letting SOE give us our game back and Smed and his minions saving themselves over the money they'd make over it would be the wuss way out for us. I hope they continue to be too dumb to do that, since the difference between SOE giving us our game back, or US giving us our game back is a matter of weeks to months... And it narrows every day. Sooner or later SOE becomes irrelevant. Oh won't that be sweet!
Hummm hate to break it to you, but your never gonna get your pre NGE/cu SWG back its gone. If SOE had the power which they don't as NGE was a joint decission with the IP people not SOE"'s alone they would have changed it back before now (some 3 years later). Its become more and more of a non-issue to them today as more players try and some actually enjoy SWG post NGE.
I imagine Smed and the very few other people that actually had a hand in the NGE laugh about these threads sure it hurts They'll maybe retire with 10 million instead of 20 (Oh the humanity!) and that is if somehow you actually managed to put Sony and several thousand innocent employs that didn't even have anything to do with NGE or SWG out of jobs. Tell me any of you don't actually think Smed and the other big wigs that decided to pull the NGE don't have gold parachuts, and if SOE went under they wouldn't just get a job at Blizzard or Vivendi or some other game company .
Once again yes what SOE did was wrong and it sucks, and most of us voted with our wallets. Like it or not Hate and anger are normal human emotions when they come and go but when they stay and take root and your whole life revolves around them then theres a problem.
Last thought here being even if SOE magically ressurected SWG pre-NGE it still wouldn't be the SWG you knew and loved as for most it was the community that made the game almost as much as the game mechanics, and most of the community has put this issue to rest, and moved on. Many even stating they would never play another SOE title again even if they brought back pre-NGE/cu. In SWG as in life there really is no going back.
IMO this disgruntled community and their right to be justified should not be to blame for the innocents that could very possibly lose their jobs because of this whole fiasco. This falls squarely on the shoulders of their employers.
It's pointless to argue with the veteran whiner babies. Every day, week, month, year is the same tired rhetoric from the same tired few. "If no pre-cu servers, SWG will fall!" "Let's all sue SOE!" "Let's make a billboard right outside SOE's offices with our unintelligent blathering written on it for them to look at!" <<-- This was the most idiotic one I'd seen and showed the real lunacy behind some of these fanatical basement dwellers.
Not all the vets are like this, so those affected by this statement know who they are. I don't need to point them out. Most of them make themselves obvious every day.
Just wait and see. SOE (like Sony as a whole) is a dead company walking. Of course, their management was bankrupt morally and ethically LONG before they are on the verge of becoming bankrupt financially.
About the only future Smed has is a tell all book about SOE mismanagement. He'll be penning one within a year or two. He's fortunate that SOE is part of Sony Pictures, the ONLY part of the company that is making money (and keeping the failed electronics and PS3 businesses afloat). If SOE were part of the gaming division he'd have been canned when SWG tanked in 2006, and EQ/EQ2 lost half their subs...
As I've said before, how much longer can Sony make it on Spideman sequels?
Of course, as fun as Smed's kiss and tell book might be, the interesting one would be the one by Tiggs...
Sony over billed my account not once but twice,so i get prepay card from best buy and they bill my credit card again !! then i make Jedi knight and some time after that they drop the nge on me and now its game on as far as I'm concerned.Word of mouth is vary powerful i tell you and they are a dead man walking as far as I'm concerned. But from time to time i still bash them,but i don't buy their products at all !!
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
I might be wrong, but isn't SOE an Austin based company? San Diego BBB wouldn't mean much there.
The developers are in Austin (at least the SWG ones, don't know about others) but SOE is based in San Diego, that is where the mindless drones work (Smed, et all).
Comments
I have an agenda, and I freely and honestly admit it: I am out to hurt SOE as much as possible, so that the company continues to suffer consequences for immoral and unethical acts against myself and other victims of the worst disaster in the history of MMOs, the CUNGE.
SOE can stop me tomorrow if they offer an actual apology TO us, and classic servers OR shuts down SWG completely.
Closure= end of SWG or SWG classic returning.
Until then I will continue to harm SOE by haunting them with their own words and actions.
I think that prospective players of SWG and other SOE games are served by being armed with knowledge of what kind of heartache they may be getting themselves into by investing into SWG or any other SOE title.
If we dont like soe dont by their products....if your sick of these threads dont read them. See how that works?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
If for no other reason than to keep the other MMO makers out there honest .
If we dont like soe dont by their products....if your sick of these threads dont read them. See how that works?
QFE.
I have to give Tenebroso a kudos on the avatar though....that is the most effed up thing i think i've ever seen...lol I seriously crack up every time I see it.
-Maz
Time does not make an injustice go away.That would just be complacency, and that would do more harm to us then good as MMO gamers.
I never said one should be complacent. As I said we vote with our wallets. Don't like the game theres the cancill button. Does lost revenue from from players unhappy with bad choices (ie NGE) hurt companies? Yes it does.
Revenge however is not the answer. The Whole Sony must die because SOE did the great Injustice of NGE is just sooo much BS. Will killing Sony bring back the SWG you knew and loved , no. Will putting thousands of Sony employes out of work almost all of them innocent of ever doing you amy harm make up for what a few did to your game, especially when the few that actually are guilty and had a say in it will still retire millionares regardless?? (Not talking about the Devs whose choice was basically do NGE or be fired but then maybe you all believe they should have somehow taken the moral high road and got fired to so your game wasn't touched. Not that that would have changed anything as SOE would have just hired new ones to do the NGE)
No in the end the death of Sony would just hurt alot of innocent people and hurt gaming in general as less investors would invest in the gaming market and less Devs would try anything new (Hello lets have some more Wow clones thats nice and safe)
And be real you all lying to yourselves saying if SOE apologised to you you'd go away we know that is all so much BS as well as you already stated you have to much time on your hands and nothing productive to do about it but bitch about the NGE that was 3 years ago. Injustice?!?! Really please read the newpapers theres plenty of real injusticew in the real world mayhaps some of you should bitch at those things as much as you do here and the world might be a better place.
Ok Ok didn't mean to get preachy but really some of you need to step back and take a look at yourselves.
Revenge is the only answer. SOE denies us our game, we do whatever we can to deny SOE what they want.
Money. Reputation. Whatever.
That is what my agenda is. Smed can end this war whenever he wants to by reinstating our game and apologizing.
Until then, we keep reloading the nukes. Ironically our nukes are armed with the ammo SOE, Smed, Noob, and all their other people give us. We don't need to do anything except point out their own words, lies, actions, inactions, deceptions, abuse. It's an unwinnable propoganda war from SOE's perspective because they've given us all the anti-propoganda we will ever need times 1000 to beat them.
This is a war. It was declared on 4/27/2005... It went nuclear 11/15/2005.
The clock is ticking. Before too long we will have our game back whether Smed does it or not.
We, the disgruntled Vets strive for VS day... Victory over Smed day. The day Smed unconditionally surrenders to the Pre-CU vets and gives us our game back.
Or gets fired. Whichever is sooner.
Frankly, letting SOE give us our game back and Smed and his minions saving themselves over the money they'd make over it would be the wuss way out for us. I hope they continue to be too dumb to do that, since the difference between SOE giving us our game back, or US giving us our game back is a matter of weeks to months... And it narrows every day. Sooner or later SOE becomes irrelevant. Oh won't that be sweet!
One of the strongest weapon against unethical and immoral practices towards a community is for the community to get organized and notify publicly.
If we vets don't had continued our effords then $OE would not have implemented things like Beastmaster back into game. We make them move thier as.....
We just started , we won't accept this low service and crap implementation of the origin Star Wars Universe idea was, and a true Star Wars fan never will do.
$OE
bring back 32 professions back and the rich experience we had with them,
get rid of lvl and classes brinbg back profession mix match.
get rid of crappy FPS Combat , bring back the classic cool combat style
get rid of Jedi as starter prof , you make the soul of Star Wars looking like a joke that way.
etc....There 1000 more things that have to be reimplemented..
So /deepbow to all $OE hater you all help to get a better SW MMORPG.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I imagine Smed and the very few other people that actually had a hand in the NGE laugh about these threads sure it hurts They'll maybe retire with 10 million instead of 20 (Oh the humanity!) and that is if somehow you actually managed to put Sony and several thousand innocent employs that didn't even have anything to do with NGE or SWG out of jobs. Tell me any of you don't actually think Smed and the other big wigs that decided to pull the NGE don't have gold parachuts, and if SOE went under they wouldn't just get a job at Blizzard or Vivendi or some other game company .
Once again yes what SOE did was wrong and it sucks, and most of us voted with our wallets. Like it or not Hate and anger are normal human emotions when they come and go but when they stay and take root and your whole life revolves around them then theres a problem.
Last thought here being even if SOE magically ressurected SWG pre-NGE it still wouldn't be the SWG you knew and loved as for most it was the community that made the game almost as much as the game mechanics, and most of the community has put this issue to rest, and moved on. Many even stating they would never play another SOE title again even if they brought back pre-NGE/cu. In SWG as in life there really is no going back.
Hmmm...I can't even begin to point out how seriously warped this post is. You realize your severely pathetic and need professional help right? Not to mention if even the slightest whiff of a emu project (like I assume your bizarre Unabomber-esque post hints at) hits Lucasarts nostrils you'll be spending more time in Fed prison then you've probably spent alive on Earth.
Again, seriously pathetic..go play with your dolls or something.
BTW, I played SWG classic, thought the whole game sucked and was surprised at the re-vamp rather than them just shutting the pathetic thing down. If they bring back Classic, the game will still suck
Some people are a bit extreme, but I do agree...they have screwed over a fine Star Wars experience. And how? With jedi. I can understand there being 2 or 3 jedi, per server, but not when anyone can be a jedi, with little work, or, as they've now made it, people being able to start as jedi. It messes with the Star Wars time line. Jedi were only recently killed off to near-extinction, so...several million jedi running around is a very poor idea. As much fun as it can be, it ruins the story. Now, if they removed jedi, and simply made it nearly impossible to be one, and add a sever limit to the number of jedi, it would help, greatly. And yes, they should add the old kick to jedi, to make it worth it, but also, add the loss of jedi slots if you die, too often. THat's my thought, at least.
However, my concern over the NGE is much more then just about my game. It's also about the impact it could have on the industry as a whole. We have very few rights when buying and subscribing to an MMO, and the NGE had really shown this to me. I believe we need more rights as consumers and subscibers to MMO's. I think the seemingly harmless litte tag of "gameplay may change" gives the developers far too much power over a game in which people essentially have to pre-pay for their game time.
So here I am, questioning the absolute power SOE has over their subscribers who have pre-paid for their game time. If the NGE is considered a success then what's next? What game is safe? To not speak out agaisnt such radical changes, and hold a company accoutable, then these kinds of pervasive conversions would continue throughout the industry causing a total distrust of all MMO developers.
I don't want this industry to become that. I want to be assured that once I subscribe to a game then the definition of what that game is will not morph into something else, and one way I can help for this to happen is to speak out.
I'm long past caring about a pre-CU server, but I'm not past caring about the industry in general. We all know that developing MMO's are costly. But in order for the industry to move forward we have to rely on developers with deep pockets. If we don't push companies like SOE to do more then this genre will be stuck in perpetual stagnation.
It is beyond my fathom that soe couldn't just snag a few of their dozens of servers and switch them back to pre nge rules. The twelve year olds that just want to be jedi and swing a lightsaber can stick to the new game and all of us that like SWG can switch back to the game we love. Yes I know it would take time and tons of code work to factor in all the updates and what have you, but for them to ignore so many players that are and have been angry since the day the switch happen is just stupid and bad business. It could happen, soe just happens to be a giant corporation that is stubborn and feels as though it never makes mistakes. When SWG first came out it was something that I don't think the gaming world had ever seen, a truly challenging mmo for a mature audience. Not mature in the sense of gore, but in the sense of complexity. I'm sure everything that I've said has been said a dozen times on this very same post , but like many of you I just need to vent. In the end I think there are two groups of people that hold the blame for SWG's demise; first obviously soe for crumbling under pressure and changing a near perfect game, but the second is players. Most mmo players like a certain simplicity, and I'm not saying that's bad. There certainly is a place in the gaming world for WoW and all of its clones. However, when a game like SWG comes along that is different I get the feeling that a lot of gamers shoot it down rather than take the time to dig deeper into the game and truly figure out the system. Like it or not soe and all game companies are out to make loot and if they feel they can attract more business by dumbing down a game then ten times out of ten they're going to do that. Until the gaming community as a whole put our feet down and collectively say that we're not content with another version of Wow with different skins it will continue to happen. Rant over.
Each and every day SOE loses money because of the NGE and the war they started with us. Each day there are multitudes of people who quit their games who are not replaced because those who could replace them are dissuaded from choosing SOE because they are armed with information about the company and their unethical practices.
SOE has lost far more money than just the SWG losses, the kick to the groin their reputation took with the callous disregard for an entire player base they displayed, IN PUBLIC, even braggadociously has cascaded across their entire product line. It also doesn't help that the rest of Sony also has a piss poor reputation, what with the PS3 overpricing, PS2 defects scandal, the rootkit scam, participation in CD price fixing, etc, etc...
"The NGE question" gets asked and will continue to come up with EVERY project SOE touches, even those they (for now, see Vanguard) don't have any hand in controlling development (ie: Gods and Heroes, Pirates of the Burning Sea). SOE games will continue to underperform. The end for them will be when their 2008 slate of new games falls on it's ass.
Even if SOE LOST money on them operationally, doing SWG classic servers would in the end MAKE them far more money because it'd end the argument. Every time someone like me bashes them, they can say, "see, we listened, we gave you your game back, why aren't you playing it?"
This is why I can't understand why they haven't done this... It's SUCH a no brainer. Besides, we know that classic SWG servers would NOT lose money, they'd bring in a lot more money. The NGE fiasco has become so infamous in the industry that there are thousands who never played pre NGE that would, just to see what the fuss was all about.
Of course, their window is fast closing. Before long, as I said, SOE offering or not offering classic servers will be IRRELEVANT to the argument. Once we, the many, the pissed off, have an alternate SWG that does NOT involve being beholden to SOE and their notoriously unethical and inept management, a SOE offering of SWG classic will be seen as a weak "me too" response.
If SOE doesn't open classic SWG by Christmas, they are through.
Of course they could toss a few pre-cu servers up. But, then they have a very bugged, difficult to support game sitting there with no new content and their name is all over it. SOE really couldn't charge money for that (and they know it) so that would then mean the NGE crowd would have to subsidize it at the expense of their game -- that just won't fly. Pre-CU has been retired. It makes no business sense to bring it back and the sense of entitlement that some of you feel is most disturbing. You paid for the service and you used it. You didn't like the changes made and thus you cancelled. That's where your entitlement ended.
Will the NGE question get asked again and again? Sure will. Will it have any real impact on the gaming community? Doubtful. For one, when the SOE marketing department comes in for a new venture, they add another slice or two -- the disgruntled former SOE player and the fringe disgruntled SOE player. They may spend a little time to woo that latter group but the former aren't even considered part of the revenue-generating population. Rick Saada wrote the same thing when PotBS signed the publishing contract: We've factored the small population of you in but your dedication to avoiding SOE won't matter much to us. Any other impact? Perhaps people will reconsider lifetime or at least longterm subscriptions in lieu of sticking to month to month. Still, anyone stuck in a longterm subscription purchase plan when NGE hit should have been able to get their money back for the unused time--I have no doubt SOE would have done it immediately, just like refunding the ToOW purchasers who did not like the changes. Again, that's where the entitlement ends....
Exactly,
Everyone and everything has a price...
in this case, it would appear that for BBB... it was Sony's "Diamond" Sponsorship.
They (Sony) must have had A TON of flak to have to resort to "Diamond" with the BBB.
So what has the BBB done while "on the payroll" for SOE? Your implications could be a serious accusation: what exactly are you suggesting?
I imagine Smed and the very few other people that actually had a hand in the NGE laugh about these threads sure it hurts They'll maybe retire with 10 million instead of 20 (Oh the humanity!) and that is if somehow you actually managed to put Sony and several thousand innocent employs that didn't even have anything to do with NGE or SWG out of jobs. Tell me any of you don't actually think Smed and the other big wigs that decided to pull the NGE don't have gold parachuts, and if SOE went under they wouldn't just get a job at Blizzard or Vivendi or some other game company .
Once again yes what SOE did was wrong and it sucks, and most of us voted with our wallets. Like it or not Hate and anger are normal human emotions when they come and go but when they stay and take root and your whole life revolves around them then theres a problem.
Last thought here being even if SOE magically ressurected SWG pre-NGE it still wouldn't be the SWG you knew and loved as for most it was the community that made the game almost as much as the game mechanics, and most of the community has put this issue to rest, and moved on. Many even stating they would never play another SOE title again even if they brought back pre-NGE/cu. In SWG as in life there really is no going back.
IMO this disgruntled community and their right to be justified should not be to blame for the innocents that could very possibly lose their jobs because of this whole fiasco. This falls squarely on the shoulders of their employers.
-Maz
therain93,
It's pointless to argue with the veteran whiner babies. Every day, week, month, year is the same tired rhetoric from the same tired few. "If no pre-cu servers, SWG will fall!" "Let's all sue SOE!" "Let's make a billboard right outside SOE's offices with our unintelligent blathering written on it for them to look at!" <<-- This was the most idiotic one I'd seen and showed the real lunacy behind some of these fanatical basement dwellers.
Not all the vets are like this, so those affected by this statement know who they are. I don't need to point them out. Most of them make themselves obvious every day.
Just wait and see. SOE (like Sony as a whole) is a dead company walking. Of course, their management was bankrupt morally and ethically LONG before they are on the verge of becoming bankrupt financially.
About the only future Smed has is a tell all book about SOE mismanagement. He'll be penning one within a year or two. He's fortunate that SOE is part of Sony Pictures, the ONLY part of the company that is making money (and keeping the failed electronics and PS3 businesses afloat). If SOE were part of the gaming division he'd have been canned when SWG tanked in 2006, and EQ/EQ2 lost half their subs...
As I've said before, how much longer can Sony make it on Spideman sequels?
Of course, as fun as Smed's kiss and tell book might be, the interesting one would be the one by Tiggs...
Sony over billed my account not once but twice,so i get prepay card from best buy and they bill my credit card again !! then i make Jedi knight and some time after that they drop the nge on me and now its game on as far as I'm concerned.Word of mouth is vary powerful i tell you and they are a dead man walking as far as I'm concerned. But from time to time i still bash them,but i don't buy their products at all !!
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
I might be wrong, but isn't SOE an Austin based company? San Diego BBB wouldn't mean much there.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
The developers are in Austin (at least the SWG ones, don't know about others) but SOE is based in San Diego, that is where the mindless drones work (Smed, et all).