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Politics and ending the war
CPmmo
Member Posts: 309
If people were really interested in ending the war in iraq and getting the troops home they would be supporting Ron Paul. As the only candidate that has consistently opposed our troops being overseas, he would bring them home.
Unfortunately he isn't getting the support that he should get. Really from both Parties and independants, since he represents what the majority of Americans want.
War Beta Tester
Comments
It's unfortunate he doesn't get the support he deserves and that hes being blatantly blocked out by the media, but you can bet your ass if hes not the republican nominee, a democrat is going to be our president in '08.
We've got our toes on the edge of a cliff, lets hope the wind is favorable.
He's not the only canditate who's always been against the war....
Also I don't know of a single candidate that was in a position when the war started to vote against it that did other then Ron Paul.
Ron Paul on the Iraq War:
Opposes Iraq war and opposes path toward Iran war. (Jan 2007)Voted YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days. (May 2007)
Voted NO on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on approving removal of Saddam & valiant service of US troops. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)
Voted YES on disallowing the invasion of Kosovo. (May 1999)
War Beta Tester
What people don't seem to get is there is no "easy way out" of Iraq at this point. If we just pull our troops out now we would leave a power vacuum in Iraq that would lead to a full on civil war. The government in Iraq at this point is in no way able to stand on it's own. If we pull out now in less than 3 months the government would be overthrown by god knows who. Iraq is a mess that WE CREATED by invading and unseating the political powers there. It is our duty to the world and America to see it through to the end at this point. Things do need to change in Iraq but a mass withdrawal is not the answer. This is why no candidate that is taken seriously is pushing an anti-war or troop withdrawal platform. They know that it would be just lies at this point because it's just not feasible to do so. Talk is all nice and good but reality dictates what actually happens and the reality is that we will be in Iraq for years to come as it's our mess and we need to clean it up.
Bren
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That is bull. The Iraqi government will never be able to handle it with us holding their hands the whole time. The only way is for us to start withdrawing our troops and force them to handle it themselves.
War Beta Tester
No that is the biggest pile of bull I've ever heard. Forcing them to "Stand on their own" at this point would only lead to one possible outcome.....Civil War. It's almost a civil war there now. All it would take is our withdrawal to allow outside powers such as Iran to make civil war a reality in Iraq. That is just reality and if you can't get a grip on that I pity you.
Bren
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Was it smart for us to go in there? Maybe, maybe not. Saddam was a bad person and bad things could have happened if he had stayed in power. The problem is we did go in and stirred up a nest of crap, now we have to stay and clean up the mess we helped make. That country/region will never be stable on its own without splitting it into 3 or 4 different ones.
Can you imagine what kind of field day the press and anti war folks would have if we did just up and leave, and that region blew-up? It’s a no win situation. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
It is not our responisibility to prevent the civil war that will happen no matter what. We are not going to be able to strengthen enough with us their.
War Beta Tester
US troops should never be under UN control. And I would oppose anyone who ever made such a suggestion.
Bren
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Bren
We are not responsible for the civil unrest. We are resonsible for removing a War criminal who commited acts of genocide. But we are not responsible for their utter hate for each other. They need to work it our or seperate their country into smaller countries, or do something, but our being there still does not allow them to actually work it out. The current party in charge knows that they have the US military to back them up. They are unwilling to make the compromises needed to form a working government, since they have our military might to protect them. They need to have their military policing the streets. They need to have their military fighting insurgents. Ours should be their under the auspice of a UN peacekeeping mission and that is all. The UN should be promoting the formation of this new government not the US. Our job is not nation building. It isn't our place to build a new Iraq. Have them come to terms with their differences and use their OIL money to build a new Iraq, not US taxpayers money.We did the same thing to Afghanastan and there is no major civil war brewing there. There we are fighting Al Queda and Taliban terrorists. If that was the case in Iraq then there would be no problem. Instead we are trying to force three seperate regions to come to terms under the iron fist of occupation. It isn't going to happen. If we are going to fix it then we need to do the same thing that was done to Germany after WW2 and that is break the country apart and give it to the seperate groups and then have the Oil contracts under the control of the UN and have the funds distributed to the three regions.
All we are doing is prolonging the inevitable. Sooner or later we are going to have to withdraw our troops from Iraq, because we can and are winning the "military" battle. With enough troops we can make sure there isn't much violence. But when ever we do leave no matter what shape we leave this current government in militarily they will not be able to prevent the Civil War, unless they have made the necessary concessions politically. And they are unwilling to do that while we are there.
War Beta Tester
We are the cause of the civil unrest in Iraq. Saddam may have been a tyrannical dictator that used death and destruction to keep his power base but the fact remains that he kept these opposing factions in line for years. By unseating him and his party we gave these people the first taste of freedom they have ever known but unfortunately this included the freedom to kill each other out of hatred. We have tried VERY hard to make sure that all of these opposing factions have a voice in the new government and it is our duty not only to the world but to the people of Iraq to see that the government has a fair chance to stand on its own before we pull out. Unfortunately there are other powers in the world that would gain significantly if the new Iraqi government failed, these include Iran and Al-Qaeda. It is our duty to see this though as it's totally our fault that this happened. If we pull out this whole area would fall into turmoil and we would end up with another Iran or worse. That is just the facts. I'm not a supporter of this war but I do face reality and the reality is that we are there, it is our mess and its our responsibility to clean it up before we leave.
Bren
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You are not facing facts. The current government is failing in Iraq. They can not or will not meet goals needed to further the government along. They are unwilling to do what is necessary to bind the country together in one common goal. The only thing that will make them do it, is putting a fire under them by starting to pull out our troops. They have had plenty of time to train up a military to provide for their own defense. There is no reason that we in the Military should still be policing the streets of Iraq. It is pathetic and shows that they are just using us as a crutch.
War Beta Tester
I heard that Iraq now has 15,000 fully trained police officers and 13,000 troops. That may not sound like much but surely that's enough for their government to stand on it's own feet, surely? British forces are pulling out completely by Xmas (supposedly) and the American forces are gradually pulling out. So even the current governments of the West believe that now is the time to pull out anyway.
One thing I don't understand about Ron Paul. I'm all for America stepping down as the sole peace keeper in the world, but what about nations like Iceland and Japan? Those countries completely depend on American forces for protection. Does Paul plan on cutting those ties as well if he were to get elected?
Lets pull out and blame Iraq being unstabalized by Britian for forming the country in the first place without taking into consideration the various ethnic groups in the region.
Now now, if us Brits didn't create nice little distraction for you yanks then you people would have nothing else to do.
And thank goodness. I can't wait for an Obama or Edwards presidency.
www.draftgore.com
Gore '08
And thank goodness. I can't wait for an Obama or Edwards presidency.
A fan of high taxes and free goverment checks to the poor and lazy?.... though if in fact a democrat is elected, i'll be first in line to get my cut of free government cheese.
Democratic party basically wants to turn the US into another Canada...
Yeah, having enough money to pay off the national debt is probably a horrible idea. It's not like we're selling off our country to pay for a war like Napoleon sold the Louisiana Territory or anything like that. And it's not like a safety net has helped this country, nope.
And Canada. Why would anyone want to be like a country that the rest of the world likes?
www.draftgore.com
Gore '08
Which wouldn't be all that bad...
Top thirty countries (HDI range from 0.965 down to 0.885)
Past top countries
The number one ranked country in each year of the index. Canada is the highest ranking country, staying at the top ten times, and is followed by Norway, which stayed at the top six times.
Health Care Ranking:
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
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We as americans ! when we invade a country and kick the schitt out their leader and his or her followers we just dont get up and leave ! thats all their is to it.We are building permament bases in Iraq did you know this,just like we did in german,france,england,afgan,japan,cuba and the list goes on,if u start a job at home or work do you just get up and leave it .I think not! so just get a grip and some common sence and help.and as far as dems getting the white house the republicans can only hope that clinton wins the nomation for the dems.as if the american people are going to give bill clinton access to the white house inturns again thats a funny one!!!! O here is clinton.....JUST 4 MORE YEARS PLZ
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Invade a country, kick ass and then don't leave... Like in Vietnam?
And those bases in Germany, France, England, Afghanistan, Japan and Cuba are there because the people allowed the US to construct bases there.
Above that I think you should shut the fuck up, finish high school (or at least have the common sense to drop out), do a course on spelling and punctuation and especially you should stop pretending the how and the why of those sacrifices American soldiers (people with more balls than you'll ever have) is even remotely within your intellectual grasp.
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And who's ass has Belgium kicked? (sorry could not resist)
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
Yes, I fear Belgium isn't as advanced as the US because it doesn't have this uncrontrolable urge to go to war...
I'm as ashamed as my other countrymen.
But... Wait! There is hope!
Our second King has slaughtered thousands in former colony of Congo in a mad quest for ever more riches! On top of that Belgium has hardly decolonized Congo after its independence, left them with a brute dictator and only enforced the heritage of fake tribalism.
Isn't that awesome? Maybe we are part of the mighty nations of the world, after all.
If only we had slaughtered ALL natives. Or gave them blankets with smallpocks or something... Then we would've been truly great.
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Your learning !
and that blanket thing was the Brittish.
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.