6 million play the game for a reason...and it isnt because it sucks. Id be playing now if I hadnt of invested hundreds of days of full gameplay time in one character.
Everything rated high by a general public stinks. General public is not interested in quality but in cheap instant moment of joy.
Only arrogance could produce such a reply, What so differs you from the "general" publilc? The general public is interested in a variety of things when it comes to MMOs. That is why it has to be reffered to as "general". Everyone finds joy in a different aspect of a game, just from your post I can almost garuntee that i play MMORPGS for a different reason than you, but that doesnt mean that I,or anyone else for that matter, play for instant gratification.
To OP: going by reviews made by the general public is a good idea, take in a wide variety of reviews on each game you want to try, check out the features of each game and the pro's and con's from the view of other players! short of playing for yourself the only info you can rely on is the "general public". Hopefully punks like this dont have to much influence on your decision.
hey vajuras, if you happen to scan this board, lil more eye appealing ?
Oh god people complain and moan and complain and crap all over WOW. Listen up people go play LOTR online, Vanguard, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, SWG (HAH HA HA HA HA YEAH), and all of the other hundreds of craptastic mmo's.
Now you know whats funny all of the people who play all of the above mentioned always come back to WOW, why? Its a good game, well designed and well blizzard just rules, face it its fun, addicting and it works. Warhammer will do well, so will AOC, so will some other games coming out but they will not even come close to what blizzard has done with the Warcraft universe just face it. Now go complain and moan some more and I will login to my char and have some fun.
Most of the people that I have seen post about how they dislike World of Warcraft and most of the people I know that no longer like it are people who have experienced the whole game. Not just leveling (which Blizzard did very well) but the "endgame" (which blizzard did very poorly).
The biggest problem currently with World of Warcraft is that it plays like 2 completely different games. The leveling and small group content can be really really fun, but unfortunately that doesn't last forever and there isn't enough of it. Then at the level cap the game completely changes. It becomes a gear progression grind of massive porportions. As I said before people that don't mind not being the best love World of Warcraft. People that have time for a full time job at WoW love the game as well. It is the average player who loves to be just as competitive but doesn't have the massive time to put in each week that gets burnt out.
They either try to keep up with the ridiculous raiding schedules for the game or they are never able to actually attend this type of content. And these people end up quitting. They reach the cap of the progression that their character can attain and realize that they can not be competitive with the players who have massive amounts of time to devote to the game.
That is why WoW is a huge bait and switch. At least other games ease you into the time it takes to master the game. World of Warcraft is pretty much a solo game up to the level cap an then all of a sudden it becomes just as raid intensive as EQ1 was. Where as games like LOTRO, EQ2, DAoC, etc either have progression gradually get more time intensive as you are playing or they keep the end game similar to the actual leveling content. For instance in DAoC you can do pretty much everything that you need pretty quickly since you can zerg encounters (on the classic servers with no Master Levels or Artifacts). Plus on DAoC you do not even need all of the other equipment to be somewhat competitve. You can PVP without it. In EQ2 and LOTRO they have quests throughout your leveling that requires groups in order to better prepare you for the time required to play. Especially LOTRO with the Epic Storyline. There are always group quests in the storyline chain.
I will give you my two cents for what it is worth.
Vanguard is still very much a work in progress. Great graphics. Just like you said a bit short on the pallet and some weak animations. However it is still a long way from being complete, without any end game and it is very possible that SoE transforms major portions of the game in the upcoming months to try to attract new subscribers. They are also working on a new or updated graphic engine so it may work better or worse for your computer in the coming months. It may or may not every see an expansion. The game has real potential, but it is 100% a crap shoot where it will end up compared to today. It is really gambling with your time, so I would avoid it if you have other options. In my opinion it does have the best classes of the two game. They all have enough flavor to be independent of each other like WoW classes are and offer some overlapping roles at the same time. The EQ2 classes are pretty much just watered down versions of each other with little sprinkles of class specifics. I really liked the vanguard classes a lot. You are most likely to have technical problems in this game including crash to desktop and bad performance. Some people don't have issues while others do. Vista runs like a dog here compared to XP.
EQ2 while you have a higher level character it is sort of a grindy game that focuses a more on grouping than the other two. Maybe less than Vanguard but more than WoW. With a new expansion coming out most people will be busy from a while leveling their max level characters leaving things below that level more barren than they are now. The game has some good spots, especially if you are an old die hard EQ1 fan, otherwise most of the lore doesn't have that interest of an old vet. The heritage quests where a lot of fun, but soooo grindy. Zoning... oh do I hate the concept of zoning and zonelines 10 times while traveling. It just makes the whole world so artificial. I know I don't have much good to say about the game and it does have qualities that appeal to others, I just don't think the designers and management meet eye to eye on the game which has caused it to change directions to many times. /pizza station exhange no more boosters expansion and to many rushed expansions. Now there is some virtual card game like magic the gathering to waste real dollars on to play in the game (I think you don't even get real cards you can keep when you cancel the game)? I just don't get the direction and nickle and diming. It has been a while since I played, but there was still a memmory leak in the game and random (sometimes game halting) lag in certain zones even when I was the only player there.
WoW I would say is your best choice. It is as hard or easy as you decide to make it, but that goes for most games (though some are just to easy and some are grindy time sinks). I wouldn't worry that your character is lower level than the other games as you will most likely find better content and a faster pace (if that is your goal) while playing than the other two games. The storys and flow of the game is entertaining the dungeons are well designed and the encounters are well thought out. It does a fantastic job of making gaining levels entertaining and the classes for the most part are all fun to play and have uses in end game raiding. The crafting isn't very good, but it isn't a mind numbing time sink like EQ2, but vanguards might be fun (also more time consuming though). Overall the gameplay of WoW is well built, designed for fun (not time sinks), offers many options of play styles. When I made the switch from EQ2 to WoW it was eye opening to how a game could be. The community isn't bad like most say. I've never had any issues with people and find lots to enjoy my time with and I LOVE pickup groups so I've seen the worst the game has to offer. You will eventually find a guild that appeals to you and spend lots of time with them, just like any other game. It will also run like a dream on your system. The other games have some aspects the do better here and there, but overall WoW just doesn't the whole package better.
End games are all pretty much doing the same encounters multiple times, be it in EQ2 or WoW. Vanguard doesn't have one yet so it doesn't count. I throughly didn't enjoy the end game encounters in EQ2 where I love them in WoW.
You should try WoW for sure since it's the best MMO for now (Not my opinion, 9mils of ppl is the reason why). EQ2 = SoE. This says everything. And Vanguard looses subscribers very fast, Imo it's just bad choice, also the 2nd name of this game is Lagguard.
As I said, everything rated high by general public stinks no matter what it is. There is no critical thinking in a head of an average person, all need and want is limited to instant joy. Is it really a valid logical thinking that if 9 milion users have the same opinion as you so its true? Is it applicable to everything else? (music, movies..)? Do you dress the same as 9 milion people (lets better say majority of population) ?
<Mod edit> And to say average people do not do any critical thinking shows at the very least arrogance bordering on stupidity. Also so using your very own logic, say Vanguard has the 9 mil subs. and WOW has the 50k or so that Vanguard has, then Vanguard would suck in your opinion then! That is sound logic! lol I personally form my own opinions about games by weighing the pros and cons not how well it is liked. Things like game play, features, lag, and graphics play thier parts.
Oh god people complain and moan and complain and crap all over WOW. Listen up people go play LOTR online, Vanguard, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, SWG (HAH HA HA HA HA YEAH), and all of the other hundreds of craptastic mmo's.
Now you know whats funny all of the people who play all of the above mentioned always come back to WOW, why? Its a good game, well designed and well blizzard just rules, face it its fun, addicting and it works. Warhammer will do well, so will AOC, so will some other games coming out but they will not even come close to what blizzard has done with the Warcraft universe just face it. Now go complain and moan some more and I will login to my char and have some fun.
WoW is crap, the thing is, it's not crap untill you play endgame and find out you are playing for nothing at all, because the expansions don't expand the gameplay, but the levelcap.
right now i am loving EQ2 the most. And contrary to what some poster said previously...end game in wow killed it for me.it got boring and monotonous. Out of the 3 (and i played each game) i think eq2 is the best of the bunch
Alright once again I have not gotten too in depth with the other two games but I have played WoW since it came out and I'll break it down for you.
PROS
-Very easy to get in to and get hooked.
-A Sleek, smooth, and very responsive UI and graphics.
-No Lag or bugs hardly at all.
-It's just plain fun.
-And there is much story and Lore to be discovered if you care to look. (not as much as most games though)
CONS
-The PVE, PVP, Rep grind does get old pretty quick
-After a while it does just break down to doing the same thing over and over again and you'll feel like you've "done it all".
-Crafting System is too simple
-The game in general is not complex
Well having said all that this game will provide at minimum a good six months of just plain fun. If you care to get deep in to endgame and join a good guild there is more fun to be had. However as I said it will eventually feel as if you've "done it all" over and over again.
So basicly go play it, own it, have fun, then move on like the rest of us.........sitting, waiting, and hoping WAR, AoC, or G&H give us something new and fresh to play.
I played WoW for a while, and had fun, but found myself in the end game mostly logging on to talk to friends while raiding, than actually playing for the game. I also thought it a pale version of eq1. The game I kept going back to was DAoC. Out of the numerous games I have played EQ1 and DAoC were my favorite. I've recently started EQ2 and while I use to be a hardcore gamer playing 40+ hours a week, I've become very casual and am having a blast in eq2. I can hop on for an hour or 2, get something accomplished, have fun exploring.
I tried going back to WoW because a friend wanted me to, and I just found it absolutely boring. Vanguard, I was very disappointed. My suggestion is whatever one you are leaning toward, try that. If it doesn't hold your interest for long, move on to another. Even though I'm totally burned out on WoW, since it was the game you played less, you might want to give that a shot first with a decent investment. All that aside, EQ2 is my current game and I see myself playing it for quite a while until something new comes out at least.
Btw, it doesn't really matter what level you are, even if you're starting from scratch, as long as you have fun, that is all that matters.
You should try WoW for sure since it's the best MMO for now (Not my opinion, 9mils of ppl is the reason why). EQ2 = SoE. This says everything. And Vanguard looses subscribers very fast, Imo it's just bad choice, also the 2nd name of this game is Lagguard.
*Buzzer Sound*
1) WOW: Fun.. in fact very fun pre 60 however the tired it's the best because xxxx Million play line is preschool reasoning.
2) EQ2: IMHOs a fine title but not for everyone. BTW..The whole SOE bashing thing is so..so tired let it go.
3) Vanguard: Alas we had such high hopes for thee..It's alot like EQ1 in both possitive (Character developement) and negative (timesinks) I didn't have a strong opinion either way with VG and maybe that's the problem. Vanguard is kind of just there.
It depends on how busy you're schedule is... If you've little time nightly to play WOW pre 60 is hard to beat. If you've 2 hours a night I'd go EQII. If time's not an issue give Vanguard a shot.
That would be true if WoW didn't pull one of the worst bait and switches in the whole genre. Fun casual friendly game all the way to the level cap. Then it turns into one of hte worst time sink games in the market. I am talking old school EQ1 time investment needed to be on the cutting edge of raiding. Sure you can raid semi casual (maybe 1-3 nights a week for 3-4 hours a pop) but you will never be on the top end of raiding and it will take forever for you to gear up. If you want to experience the new raid content as it is released and experience before people post all of the walkthroughs then you will need to be in a top end raid guild which means 5 to 7 nights a week of raiding starting usually around 6pmish and ending around 12-1am.
So WoW is great if you can stomach not being the best. But if you strive to be the best you better have at least 50-60 hours a week of playing time. Because on top of the raiding 5-7 nights a week for 4-8 hours per night, you also need to grind for all of your supplies and cash for repairs. Top end guilds treat World of Warcraft as a job and not a fun experience.
Yes the omg its SOE argument is 2 years old now, let it go.
The high end guilds in WoW are competitive and really enjoy spending hours on end finish up the content, this is one thing that Blizzard got right. If people are willing to spend hours on end raiding then let them do it and make it difficult to do. People are competitive by nature, its not hard to figure out why this is succesful. If you don't have the time to raid or do heroics to get better stuff then WoW isn't the game for you and I would argue that MMOs aren't the games for you.
EQ2 is the most complete MMO out there right now, its the only game I've played that I felt no rush at all to 'powerlevel' like I did in WoW. Throughout your 'adventures' you are constantly fed quests and tasks to keep you busy, most are enjoyable especially the Heritage quests. There are guild levels that grant access to nicer items that your guildmates can work towards, the list of things to do is endless. The population obviously isn't as large as WoW but with a little time asking around you can find a solid group to meet up with most times.
WoW is a game that makes you forget why you play. You play to enjoy yourself, together with other people. An MMO is not designed to be about ME ME ME, but about what you do together and that's where WoW fails, because in WoW, the only character that counts, is the one behind the screen.
Very well said...5 stars!
/agree. WOW is about greed! Get better items, get better gear, get better stats, it appeals to that greedy human capitalistic nature. Nothing wrong with that, though, as long as you don't let it take over your life like has happened to mannnny people I know. It's just a game.
All mmos are like this to some extent, but in WOW it's the worst.
You should try WoW for sure since it's the best MMO for now (Not my opinion, 9mils of ppl is the reason why).
EQ2 = SoE. This says everything.
And Vanguard looses subscribers very fast, Imo it's just bad choice, also the 2nd name of this game is Lagguard.
As I said, everything rated high by general public stinks no matter what it is. There is no critical thinking in a head of an average person, all need and want is limited to instant joy. Is it really a valid logical thinking that if 9 milion users have the same opinion as you so its true? Is it applicable to everything else? (music, movies..)? Do you dress the same as 9 milion people (lets better say majority of population) ?
<Mod edit> And to say average people do not do any critical thinking shows at the very least arrogance bordering on stupidity. Also so using your very own logic, say Vanguard has the 9 mil subs. and WOW has the 50k or so that Vanguard has, then Vanguard would suck in your opinion then! That is sound logic! lol I personally form my own opinions about games by weighing the pros and cons not how well it is liked. Things like game play, features, lag, and graphics play thier parts.
You can't give me an example just by saying what if Vanguard had 9mil and wow 50k subs. This just isnt happening and won't happen.
6 million play the game for a reason...and it isnt because it sucks. Id be playing now if I hadnt of invested hundreds of days of full gameplay time in one character.
Everything rated high by a general public stinks. General public is not interested in quality but in cheap instant moment of joy.
Only arrogance could produce such a reply, What so differs you from the "general" publilc? The general public is interested in a variety of things when it comes to MMOs. That is why it has to be reffered to as "general". Everyone finds joy in a different aspect of a game, just from your post I can almost garuntee that i play MMORPGS for a different reason than you, but that doesnt mean that I,or anyone else for that matter, play for instant gratification.
Everyone finds joy in a different aspects yeh. But those aspects are prety limited There may be 20 groups of combinations of those aspects. Mass market and general public has completely different priorities than I do have. So it shouldn't be used as an argument.
My post was a response to an argument saying this game plays 6mil subs, they can't be wrong.
And yes I still believe WoW is here for instant moment of joy. Then its just addiction for better loot. Flavoured by the mass hysteria around Blizzard and Warcraft names. There may be players that enjoy the game for the lore, or enjoy leveling in the game together with friends, or roleplaying in the lore. But those are huge minority, most people play it to get better loot from the same graphical raid instance every day or farming the same graphical battleground fightning players to get better loot.
There are no politics, no diplomacy, no house building, no tools for roleplaying, no immersive crafting, no open world, no castle building, no guild versus guild fights, ...There are just couple of raid dungeons and some battlegrounds. And all you can get is just better loot more purples.
I agree, theres just nothing to WOW besides loot now. Once you've done all the quests many times, and such, although it was a lot of fun, theres just nothing there anymore to go back for.
Everyone finds joy in a different aspects yeh. But those aspects are prety limited There may be 20 groups of combinations of those aspects. Mass market and general public has completely different priorities than I do have. So it shouldn't be used as an argument. My post was a response to an argument saying this game plays 6mil subs, they can't be wrong. And yes I still believe WoW is here for instant moment of joy. Then its just addiction for better loot. Flavoured by the mass hysteria around Blizzard and Warcraft names. There may be players that enjoy the game for the lore, or enjoy leveling in the game together with friends, or roleplaying in the lore. But those are huge minority, most people play it to get better loot from the same graphical raid instance every day or farming the same graphical battleground fightning players to get better loot. There are no politics, no diplomacy, no house building, no tools for roleplaying, no immersive crafting, no open world, no castle building, no guild versus guild fights, ...There are just couple of raid dungeons and some battlegrounds. And all you can get is just better loot more purples.
Lets look at Vanguard and EQII in comparrison to your points:
Vanguard- has no politics whatso ever. (the community is in shambles anyway) Diplomacy - ok, it has a card game. Its grind. It offers a few buffs if you grind your eyeballs out on endless card games it offers no dynamic impact at all, its a novelty. What tools of "role playing" does Vanguard have that WoW doesn't that you don't otherwise mention? Crafting - its to an extream. Its not "depth" its a pain in the arse. Combining assorted numbers of pixel objects is not depth simply because one has fewer parts and the other tries to frustrate you by throwing in a mechanic to f**k up up. No guild fights - maybe...maybe on the single PvP server (the least populated one in an already dying game) there might a few souls doing it. Is there even a mechanic for it? I will check when I get home. "There are just a couple of raid dungeons and some battlegrounds" - none of which Vanguard has currently.
You can build a house and a guild castle...fine, they don't do anything. They have no real function. They don't generate politics at all, they are just eye candy you can decorate. Vanguard is nothing more then a low quality exsercise in grinding. Throw some crafting stations in it and all they serve is to delute an already thinned out population. All it does is generate more grind goals to meet.
Open world - yeah ok, there is Vanguards one quality, however its so large and open and in many cases, empty, it cripples the game with its raw size.
EQII - has no politics, what the heck is there to politic over in EQII? Diplomacy - zero and it has no mechanics unless players choose to RP it (which you can do in any game) Housing - instanced. You have it for decoration, It generates nothing for the game. It might serve as a guild hall or meeting place. RP tools, OK it has some nice voice emotes but some of the other emotes....yikes...whats with the spaz dance in that game? The characters look they are trying to hold in pee when they hop around dancing. Anyway, what other RP tools does it have any other game doesn't that you don't already mention? Guild vs guild - again unless you are on a PvP server, there is none either. Immersive crafting? Maybe before the revamp. Open world - NOT, Castle building - not even. There are just a couple of raid dungeons here as well.
Politics and Diplomacy are player generated actions. You can not force or put a direct mechanic in and say "see we have politics". There MUST be a catalyst to generate the politics which none of those 3 games has. Grinding on rocks so you can build a castle doesn't generate "politics". Building a castle that only serves as a bind point, crafter stop or extra storage...doesn't generate politics as long as that is its only function. Its an extra backpack space with some flashy stuff in it. That doesn't generate politics OR role playing. Only player choice does that. Decissions with consequence generates those things. The rest is meaningless fluff. This is why MMORPGs are suffering. Killing 10 rats, raiding "Oomboo the monkey king" once a week, and sifting through loot isn't what an RPG is about. (here I think we agree)
The only MMO's I have played that had successful politics with a purpose and dynamic impact were EVE and Lineage2. DAoC could have if they didn't seperate the players and made them no-communication. The rest are just varying degrees of grind mills with no other purpose other then to ding a level.
Does WoW have issues? Sure it does, there no meaning behind anything you do. Its just a grind for the sake of grinding. What has turned people on it the loot acquistion and ability to use that loot to bop other players on the head in a BG....for points (aka: grind)
I'm not gonna run down the list of WoW because you probably get my point. Agree or don't it doesn't matter. If you don't like it fine, but don't try to portray it or other games as something they are not with that "mass market" junk because it doesn't work with those 3 examples. Those games are almost all basically the same the game. You make an elf or dwarf, you pick a class and grind away until you get get bored with it. Whether there are 2 races or 20, 4 classes or 40, 3 steps to craft or 30 doesn't matter. Its the same thing. Grind for points to make the toon uber....to...do ...what, Raid Oomboo again? Oh, and you can throw LotR in there as well. Its in the same boat.
Anyway, good gaming...play what you like and get off the high horse with "its good for the common man but not good enough for me" talk.
Everyone finds joy in a different aspects yeh. But those aspects are prety limited There may be 20 groups of combinations of those aspects. Mass market and general public has completely different priorities than I do have. So it shouldn't be used as an argument. My post was a response to an argument saying this game plays 6mil subs, they can't be wrong. And yes I still believe WoW is here for instant moment of joy. Then its just addiction for better loot. Flavoured by the mass hysteria around Blizzard and Warcraft names. There may be players that enjoy the game for the lore, or enjoy leveling in the game together with friends, or roleplaying in the lore. But those are huge minority, most people play it to get better loot from the same graphical raid instance every day or farming the same graphical battleground fightning players to get better loot. There are no politics, no diplomacy, no house building, no tools for roleplaying, no immersive crafting, no open world, no castle building, no guild versus guild fights, ...There are just couple of raid dungeons and some battlegrounds. And all you can get is just better loot more purples.
Lets look at Vanguard and EQII in comparrison to your points:
Vanguard- has no politics whatso ever. (the community is in shambles anyway) Diplomacy - ok, it has a card game. Its grind. It offers a few buffs if you grind your eyeballs out on endless card games it offers no dynamic impact at all, its a novelty. What tools of "role playing" does Vanguard have that WoW doesn't that you don't otherwise mention? Crafting - its to an extream. Its not "depth" its a pain in the arse. Combining assorted numbers of pixel objects is not depth simply because one has fewer parts and the other tries to frustrate you by throwing in a mechanic to f**k up up. No guild fights - maybe...maybe on the single PvP server (the least populated one in an already dying game) there might a few souls doing it. Is there even a mechanic for it? I will check when I get home. "There are just a couple of raid dungeons and some battlegrounds" - none of which Vanguard has currently.
You can build a house and a guild castle...fine, they don't do anything. They have no real function. They don't generate politics at all, they are just eye candy you can decorate. Vanguard is nothing more then a low quality exsercise in grinding. Throw some crafting stations in it and all they serve is to delute an already thinned out population. All it does is generate more grind goals to meet.
Open world - yeah ok, there is Vanguards one quality, however its so large and open and in many cases, empty, it cripples the game with its raw size.
EQII - has no politics, what the heck is there to politic over in EQII? Diplomacy - zero and it has no mechanics unless players choose to RP it (which you can do in any game) Housing - instanced. You have it for decoration, It generates nothing for the game. It might serve as a guild hall or meeting place. RP tools, OK it has some nice voice emotes but some of the other emotes....yikes...whats with the spaz dance in that game? The characters look they are trying to hold in pee when they hop around dancing. Anyway, what other RP tools does it have any other game doesn't that you don't already mention? Guild vs guild - again unless you are on a PvP server, there is none either. Immersive crafting? Maybe before the revamp. Open world - NOT, Castle building - not even. There are just a couple of raid dungeons here as well.
Politics and Diplomacy are player generated actions. You can not force or put a direct mechanic in and say "see we have politics". There MUST be a catalyst to generate the politics which none of those 3 games has. Grinding on rocks so you can build a castle doesn't generate "politics". Building a castle that only serves as a bind point, crafter stop or extra storage...doesn't generate politics as long as that is its only function. Its an extra backpack space with some flashy stuff in it. That doesn't generate politics OR role playing. Only player choice does that. Decissions with consequence generates those things. The rest is meaningless fluff. This is why MMORPGs are suffering. Killing 10 rats, raiding "Oomboo the monkey king" once a week, and sifting through loot isn't what an RPG is about. (here I think we agree)
The only MMO's I have played that had successful politics with a purpose and dynamic impact were EVE and Lineage2. DAoC could have if they didn't seperate the players and made them no-communication. The rest are just varying degrees of grind mills with no other purpose other then to ding a level.
Does WoW have issues? Sure it does, there no meaning behind anything you do. Its just a grind for the sake of grinding. What has turned people on it the loot acquistion and ability to use that loot to bop other players on the head in a BG....for points (aka: grind)
I'm not gonna run down the list of WoW because you probably get my point. Agree or don't it doesn't matter. If you don't like it fine, but don't try to portray it or other games as something they are not with that "mass market" junk because it doesn't work with those 3 examples. Those games are almost all basically the same the game. You make an elf or dwarf, you pick a class and grind away until you get get bored with it. Whether there are 2 races or 20, 4 classes or 40, 3 steps to craft or 30 doesn't matter. Its the same thing. Grind for points to make the toon uber....to...do ...what, Raid Oomboo again? Oh, and you can throw LotR in there as well. Its in the same boat.
Anyway, good gaming...play what you like and get off the high horse with "its good for the common man but not good enough for me" talk.
If you want to look serious, you must bring some arguments not your highly subjective opinion.
Crafting is blend you say with no real explanation. Tell me what kind of crafting would you imagine that would meet your requirements of depths. I guess having unique crafter's inventory, crafters tools (around 40 kinds), crafting attributes (20) and a crafting minigame is not enough for you. The crafting is there and is complex and adds another sphere to the game no matter if you like it or not.
Yes Vanguard offers guild houses, ships, building noninstanced housing. Your question is so what? What effect does it have on gameplay... What did you expect? That you get + 5% critical chance if you build your own house or what? If its not enough for you to build your own ship or house or a huge castle for your guild, then just stay in WoW and accumulate your items next decades.
Yes there is diplomacy as an additional card game minigame that offers you to know a lot about the lore behind the game. Yes you say its just another grind, but what is NOT a grind? Having different kinds of grind activities makes the fun if you can switch between them frequently.
I wasnt referring that vanguard has politics, but its another aspect a mmorpg has that WoW lacks. From those 8 aspects WoW lacks 6 and all it has are raids and battlegrounds.
And about enforcing roleplaying, I guess building your own house or ship and then decorating it is not enough roleplaying. Also loong discussions with NPC's and learning a lot of lore is not enough. The fact that guild houses offers crafting tables for its members, teleports doesnt enforce guild meetings there? What dou you consider a roleplaying enforcing rules? Being watched by GM and if you do it right you get + 5% critical chance buff? I guess everything in your best-dreamed MMORPG must be counted in numbers and everything must have stated obvious reward (item reward of course). I call it WoW deformation.
Haha you guys are crazy. The OP probably jumped ship at about half the current thread pages and you're still writing your essays on Vanguard and EQ2. Talk about off topic.
Funny that the SOE is evil came into play. They actually turned the game around and made it a excellent MMO superior to everything on the market at the moment.
Haha you guys are crazy. The OP probably jumped ship at about half the current thread pages and you're still writing your essays on Vanguard and EQ2. Talk about off topic.
Nah, I made it all the way here; I had to see what would happen next...LOL.
At any rate, you have all given me ample reasons to play WoW and a few for EQ2 (and one, albeit HUGE vote for Vanguard). Being that I do have the time sunk into EQ2, I'm thinking of giving that a go, as it has been a year and a half since I played...it sounds like a lot has changed since then. Hell, I may even throw in and get station access for a month and see either 1) what an improvement SOE has made on Vanguard or that 2) Vanguard is a desolate wasteland where it is impossible to get a groun (and if that is the case, I'll free up the 20 Gb of space on my HDD).
I cannot discount WoW either, although it sounds like the end-game sucks horridly (hmmmm...may have to start another post on that). I'm thinking that levelling in WoW sounds like a hell of a good time, but what do you do once you hit the level-cap and have done all the quests once or twice? From what I have seen of WoW, you are pretty much led from one area to the next by quests. If that holds true, the game is pretty much over once you've ran a couple characters to the cap. That certainly makes EQ2 look better (I certainly don't have hours a day to raid).
At any rate, thank you all for your time and energy here; I hope to see you all in-game (I WILL update this with what I decide to go with, if you all care to check back from time to time).
Haha you guys are crazy. The OP probably jumped ship at about half the current thread pages and you're still writing your essays on Vanguard and EQ2. Talk about off topic.
Nah, I made it all the way here; I had to see what would happen next...LOL.
At any rate, you have all given me ample reasons to play WoW and a few for EQ2 (and one, albeit HUGE vote for Vanguard). Being that I do have the time sunk into EQ2, I'm thinking of giving that a go, as it has been a year and a half since I played...it sounds like a lot has changed since then. Hell, I may even throw in and get station access for a month and see either 1) what an improvement SOE has made on Vanguard or that 2) Vanguard is a desolate wasteland where it is impossible to get a groun (and if that is the case, I'll free up the 20 Gb of space on my HDD).
I cannot discount WoW either, although it sounds like the end-game sucks horridly (hmmmm...may have to start another post on that). I'm thinking that levelling in WoW sounds like a hell of a good time, but what do you do once you hit the level-cap and have done all the quests once or twice? From what I have seen of WoW, you are pretty much led from one area to the next by quests. If that holds true, the game is pretty much over once you've ran a couple characters to the cap. That certainly makes EQ2 look better (I certainly don't have hours a day to raid).
At any rate, thank you all for your time and energy here; I hope to see you all in-game (I WILL update this with what I decide to go with, if you all care to check back from time to time).
The endgame in WOW is what you make it. IF you join a guild that meets your needs, you can ENJOY it. Now that raids are only 20 man, theres not nearly as much pressure as the old 40 man days. if you just want to do the odd raid, join a casual raiding guild Its really not as bad as people make it out to be. Raids can be exciting and fun, they certainly don;t have to take up your life.
People get into the mindset "all or nothing" with WOW it seems. However theres plenty of raiding going on in EQ2 as well.
Honestly I had a lot more fun in WOW than EQ2 overall, though both are great games.
Comments
Only arrogance could produce such a reply, What so differs you from the "general" publilc? The general public is interested in a variety of things when it comes to MMOs. That is why it has to be reffered to as "general". Everyone finds joy in a different aspect of a game, just from your post I can almost garuntee that i play MMORPGS for a different reason than you, but that doesnt mean that I,or anyone else for that matter, play for instant gratification.Everything rated high by a general public stinks. General public is not interested in quality but in cheap instant moment of joy.
To OP: going by reviews made by the general public is a good idea, take in a wide variety of reviews on each game you want to try, check out the features of each game and the pro's and con's from the view of other players! short of playing for yourself the only info you can rely on is the "general public". Hopefully punks like this dont have to much influence on your decision.
hey vajuras, if you happen to scan this board, lil more eye appealing ?
http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=67334
Oh god people complain and moan and complain and crap all over WOW. Listen up people go play LOTR online, Vanguard, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, SWG (HAH HA HA HA HA YEAH), and all of the other hundreds of craptastic mmo's.
Now you know whats funny all of the people who play all of the above mentioned always come back to WOW, why? Its a good game, well designed and well blizzard just rules, face it its fun, addicting and it works. Warhammer will do well, so will AOC, so will some other games coming out but they will not even come close to what blizzard has done with the Warcraft universe just face it. Now go complain and moan some more and I will login to my char and have some fun.
Most of the people that I have seen post about how they dislike World of Warcraft and most of the people I know that no longer like it are people who have experienced the whole game. Not just leveling (which Blizzard did very well) but the "endgame" (which blizzard did very poorly).
The biggest problem currently with World of Warcraft is that it plays like 2 completely different games. The leveling and small group content can be really really fun, but unfortunately that doesn't last forever and there isn't enough of it. Then at the level cap the game completely changes. It becomes a gear progression grind of massive porportions. As I said before people that don't mind not being the best love World of Warcraft. People that have time for a full time job at WoW love the game as well. It is the average player who loves to be just as competitive but doesn't have the massive time to put in each week that gets burnt out.
They either try to keep up with the ridiculous raiding schedules for the game or they are never able to actually attend this type of content. And these people end up quitting. They reach the cap of the progression that their character can attain and realize that they can not be competitive with the players who have massive amounts of time to devote to the game.
That is why WoW is a huge bait and switch. At least other games ease you into the time it takes to master the game. World of Warcraft is pretty much a solo game up to the level cap an then all of a sudden it becomes just as raid intensive as EQ1 was. Where as games like LOTRO, EQ2, DAoC, etc either have progression gradually get more time intensive as you are playing or they keep the end game similar to the actual leveling content. For instance in DAoC you can do pretty much everything that you need pretty quickly since you can zerg encounters (on the classic servers with no Master Levels or Artifacts). Plus on DAoC you do not even need all of the other equipment to be somewhat competitve. You can PVP without it. In EQ2 and LOTRO they have quests throughout your leveling that requires groups in order to better prepare you for the time required to play. Especially LOTRO with the Epic Storyline. There are always group quests in the storyline chain.
War Beta Tester
I will give you my two cents for what it is worth.
Vanguard is still very much a work in progress. Great graphics. Just like you said a bit short on the pallet and some weak animations. However it is still a long way from being complete, without any end game and it is very possible that SoE transforms major portions of the game in the upcoming months to try to attract new subscribers. They are also working on a new or updated graphic engine so it may work better or worse for your computer in the coming months. It may or may not every see an expansion. The game has real potential, but it is 100% a crap shoot where it will end up compared to today. It is really gambling with your time, so I would avoid it if you have other options. In my opinion it does have the best classes of the two game. They all have enough flavor to be independent of each other like WoW classes are and offer some overlapping roles at the same time. The EQ2 classes are pretty much just watered down versions of each other with little sprinkles of class specifics. I really liked the vanguard classes a lot. You are most likely to have technical problems in this game including crash to desktop and bad performance. Some people don't have issues while others do. Vista runs like a dog here compared to XP.
EQ2 while you have a higher level character it is sort of a grindy game that focuses a more on grouping than the other two. Maybe less than Vanguard but more than WoW. With a new expansion coming out most people will be busy from a while leveling their max level characters leaving things below that level more barren than they are now. The game has some good spots, especially if you are an old die hard EQ1 fan, otherwise most of the lore doesn't have that interest of an old vet. The heritage quests where a lot of fun, but soooo grindy. Zoning... oh do I hate the concept of zoning and zonelines 10 times while traveling. It just makes the whole world so artificial. I know I don't have much good to say about the game and it does have qualities that appeal to others, I just don't think the designers and management meet eye to eye on the game which has caused it to change directions to many times. /pizza station exhange no more boosters expansion and to many rushed expansions. Now there is some virtual card game like magic the gathering to waste real dollars on to play in the game (I think you don't even get real cards you can keep when you cancel the game)? I just don't get the direction and nickle and diming. It has been a while since I played, but there was still a memmory leak in the game and random (sometimes game halting) lag in certain zones even when I was the only player there.
WoW I would say is your best choice. It is as hard or easy as you decide to make it, but that goes for most games (though some are just to easy and some are grindy time sinks). I wouldn't worry that your character is lower level than the other games as you will most likely find better content and a faster pace (if that is your goal) while playing than the other two games. The storys and flow of the game is entertaining the dungeons are well designed and the encounters are well thought out. It does a fantastic job of making gaining levels entertaining and the classes for the most part are all fun to play and have uses in end game raiding. The crafting isn't very good, but it isn't a mind numbing time sink like EQ2, but vanguards might be fun (also more time consuming though). Overall the gameplay of WoW is well built, designed for fun (not time sinks), offers many options of play styles. When I made the switch from EQ2 to WoW it was eye opening to how a game could be. The community isn't bad like most say. I've never had any issues with people and find lots to enjoy my time with and I LOVE pickup groups so I've seen the worst the game has to offer. You will eventually find a guild that appeals to you and spend lots of time with them, just like any other game. It will also run like a dream on your system. The other games have some aspects the do better here and there, but overall WoW just doesn't the whole package better.
End games are all pretty much doing the same encounters multiple times, be it in EQ2 or WoW. Vanguard doesn't have one yet so it doesn't count. I throughly didn't enjoy the end game encounters in EQ2 where I love them in WoW.
WoW is crap, the thing is, it's not crap untill you play endgame and find out you are playing for nothing at all, because the expansions don't expand the gameplay, but the levelcap.
right now i am loving EQ2 the most. And contrary to what some poster said previously...end game in wow killed it for me.it got boring and monotonous. Out of the 3 (and i played each game) i think eq2 is the best of the bunch
Alright once again I have not gotten too in depth with the other two games but I have played WoW since it came out and I'll break it down for you.
PROS
-Very easy to get in to and get hooked.
-A Sleek, smooth, and very responsive UI and graphics.
-No Lag or bugs hardly at all.
-It's just plain fun.
-And there is much story and Lore to be discovered if you care to look. (not as much as most games though)
CONS
-The PVE, PVP, Rep grind does get old pretty quick
-After a while it does just break down to doing the same thing over and over again and you'll feel like you've "done it all".
-Crafting System is too simple
-The game in general is not complex
Well having said all that this game will provide at minimum a good six months of just plain fun. If you care to get deep in to endgame and join a good guild there is more fun to be had. However as I said it will eventually feel as if you've "done it all" over and over again.
So basicly go play it, own it, have fun, then move on like the rest of us.........sitting, waiting, and hoping WAR, AoC, or G&H give us something new and fresh to play.
I played WoW for a while, and had fun, but found myself in the end game mostly logging on to talk to friends while raiding, than actually playing for the game. I also thought it a pale version of eq1. The game I kept going back to was DAoC. Out of the numerous games I have played EQ1 and DAoC were my favorite. I've recently started EQ2 and while I use to be a hardcore gamer playing 40+ hours a week, I've become very casual and am having a blast in eq2. I can hop on for an hour or 2, get something accomplished, have fun exploring.
I tried going back to WoW because a friend wanted me to, and I just found it absolutely boring. Vanguard, I was very disappointed. My suggestion is whatever one you are leaning toward, try that. If it doesn't hold your interest for long, move on to another. Even though I'm totally burned out on WoW, since it was the game you played less, you might want to give that a shot first with a decent investment. All that aside, EQ2 is my current game and I see myself playing it for quite a while until something new comes out at least.
Btw, it doesn't really matter what level you are, even if you're starting from scratch, as long as you have fun, that is all that matters.
1) WOW: Fun.. in fact very fun pre 60 however the tired it's the best because xxxx Million play line is preschool reasoning.
2) EQ2: IMHOs a fine title but not for everyone. BTW..The whole SOE bashing thing is so..so tired let it go.
3) Vanguard: Alas we had such high hopes for thee..It's alot like EQ1 in both possitive (Character developement) and negative (timesinks) I didn't have a strong opinion either way with VG and maybe that's the problem. Vanguard is kind of just there.
It depends on how busy you're schedule is... If you've little time nightly to play WOW pre 60 is hard to beat. If you've 2 hours a night I'd go EQII. If time's not an issue give Vanguard a shot.
That would be true if WoW didn't pull one of the worst bait and switches in the whole genre. Fun casual friendly game all the way to the level cap. Then it turns into one of hte worst time sink games in the market. I am talking old school EQ1 time investment needed to be on the cutting edge of raiding. Sure you can raid semi casual (maybe 1-3 nights a week for 3-4 hours a pop) but you will never be on the top end of raiding and it will take forever for you to gear up. If you want to experience the new raid content as it is released and experience before people post all of the walkthroughs then you will need to be in a top end raid guild which means 5 to 7 nights a week of raiding starting usually around 6pmish and ending around 12-1am.So WoW is great if you can stomach not being the best. But if you strive to be the best you better have at least 50-60 hours a week of playing time. Because on top of the raiding 5-7 nights a week for 4-8 hours per night, you also need to grind for all of your supplies and cash for repairs. Top end guilds treat World of Warcraft as a job and not a fun experience.
Yes the omg its SOE argument is 2 years old now, let it go.
The high end guilds in WoW are competitive and really enjoy spending hours on end finish up the content, this is one thing that Blizzard got right. If people are willing to spend hours on end raiding then let them do it and make it difficult to do. People are competitive by nature, its not hard to figure out why this is succesful. If you don't have the time to raid or do heroics to get better stuff then WoW isn't the game for you and I would argue that MMOs aren't the games for you.
EQ2 is the most complete MMO out there right now, its the only game I've played that I felt no rush at all to 'powerlevel' like I did in WoW. Throughout your 'adventures' you are constantly fed quests and tasks to keep you busy, most are enjoyable especially the Heritage quests. There are guild levels that grant access to nicer items that your guildmates can work towards, the list of things to do is endless. The population obviously isn't as large as WoW but with a little time asking around you can find a solid group to meet up with most times.
Very well said...5 stars!/agree. WOW is about greed! Get better items, get better gear, get better stats, it appeals to that greedy human capitalistic nature.
Nothing wrong with that, though, as long as you don't let it take over your life like has happened to mannnny people I know. It's just a game. 
All mmos are like this to some extent, but in WOW it's the worst.
As I said, everything rated high by general public stinks no matter what it is. There is no critical thinking in a head of an average person, all need and want is limited to instant joy. Is it really a valid logical thinking that if 9 milion users have the same opinion as you so its true? Is it applicable to everything else? (music, movies..)? Do you dress the same as 9 milion people (lets better say majority of population) ?
<Mod edit> And to say average people do not do any critical thinking shows at the very least arrogance bordering on stupidity. Also so using your very own logic, say Vanguard has the 9 mil subs. and WOW has the 50k or so that Vanguard has, then Vanguard would suck in your opinion then!
You can't give me an example just by saying what if Vanguard had 9mil and wow 50k subs. This just isnt happening and won't happen.
REALITY CHECK
Only arrogance could produce such a reply, What so differs you from the "general" publilc? The general public is interested in a variety of things when it comes to MMOs. That is why it has to be reffered to as "general". Everyone finds joy in a different aspect of a game, just from your post I can almost garuntee that i play MMORPGS for a different reason than you, but that doesnt mean that I,or anyone else for that matter, play for instant gratification.Everything rated high by a general public stinks. General public is not interested in quality but in cheap instant moment of joy.
Everyone finds joy in a different aspects yeh. But those aspects are prety limited There may be 20 groups of combinations of those aspects. Mass market and general public has completely different priorities than I do have. So it shouldn't be used as an argument.
My post was a response to an argument saying this game plays 6mil subs, they can't be wrong.
And yes I still believe WoW is here for instant moment of joy. Then its just addiction for better loot. Flavoured by the mass hysteria around Blizzard and Warcraft names. There may be players that enjoy the game for the lore, or enjoy leveling in the game together with friends, or roleplaying in the lore. But those are huge minority, most people play it to get better loot from the same graphical raid instance every day or farming the same graphical battleground fightning players to get better loot.
There are no politics, no diplomacy, no house building, no tools for roleplaying, no immersive crafting, no open world, no castle building, no guild versus guild fights, ...There are just couple of raid dungeons and some battlegrounds. And all you can get is just better loot more purples.
REALITY CHECK
Sweet, a VNV nation fan! /end threadjack
I agree, theres just nothing to WOW besides loot now. Once you've done all the quests many times, and such, although it was a lot of fun, theres just nothing there anymore to go back for.
Heh one thing is for sure: Judgement day's not coming.
REALITY CHECK
Vanguard- has no politics whatso ever. (the community is in shambles anyway) Diplomacy - ok, it has a card game. Its grind. It offers a few buffs if you grind your eyeballs out on endless card games it offers no dynamic impact at all, its a novelty. What tools of "role playing" does Vanguard have that WoW doesn't that you don't otherwise mention? Crafting - its to an extream. Its not "depth" its a pain in the arse. Combining assorted numbers of pixel objects is not depth simply because one has fewer parts and the other tries to frustrate you by throwing in a mechanic to f**k up up. No guild fights - maybe...maybe on the single PvP server (the least populated one in an already dying game) there might a few souls doing it. Is there even a mechanic for it? I will check when I get home. "There are just a couple of raid dungeons and some battlegrounds" - none of which Vanguard has currently.
You can build a house and a guild castle...fine, they don't do anything. They have no real function. They don't generate politics at all, they are just eye candy you can decorate. Vanguard is nothing more then a low quality exsercise in grinding. Throw some crafting stations in it and all they serve is to delute an already thinned out population. All it does is generate more grind goals to meet.
Open world - yeah ok, there is Vanguards one quality, however its so large and open and in many cases, empty, it cripples the game with its raw size.
EQII - has no politics, what the heck is there to politic over in EQII? Diplomacy - zero and it has no mechanics unless players choose to RP it (which you can do in any game) Housing - instanced. You have it for decoration, It generates nothing for the game. It might serve as a guild hall or meeting place. RP tools, OK it has some nice voice emotes but some of the other emotes....yikes...whats with the spaz dance in that game? The characters look they are trying to hold in pee when they hop around dancing. Anyway, what other RP tools does it have any other game doesn't that you don't already mention? Guild vs guild - again unless you are on a PvP server, there is none either. Immersive crafting? Maybe before the revamp. Open world - NOT, Castle building - not even. There are just a couple of raid dungeons here as well.
Politics and Diplomacy are player generated actions. You can not force or put a direct mechanic in and say "see we have politics". There MUST be a catalyst to generate the politics which none of those 3 games has. Grinding on rocks so you can build a castle doesn't generate "politics". Building a castle that only serves as a bind point, crafter stop or extra storage...doesn't generate politics as long as that is its only function. Its an extra backpack space with some flashy stuff in it. That doesn't generate politics OR role playing. Only player choice does that. Decissions with consequence generates those things. The rest is meaningless fluff. This is why MMORPGs are suffering. Killing 10 rats, raiding "Oomboo the monkey king" once a week, and sifting through loot isn't what an RPG is about. (here I think we agree)
The only MMO's I have played that had successful politics with a purpose and dynamic impact were EVE and Lineage2. DAoC could have if they didn't seperate the players and made them no-communication. The rest are just varying degrees of grind mills with no other purpose other then to ding a level.
Does WoW have issues? Sure it does, there no meaning behind anything you do. Its just a grind for the sake of grinding. What has turned people on it the loot acquistion and ability to use that loot to bop other players on the head in a BG....for points (aka: grind)
I'm not gonna run down the list of WoW because you probably get my point. Agree or don't it doesn't matter. If you don't like it fine, but don't try to portray it or other games as something they are not with that "mass market" junk because it doesn't work with those 3 examples. Those games are almost all basically the same the game. You make an elf or dwarf, you pick a class and grind away until you get get bored with it. Whether there are 2 races or 20, 4 classes or 40, 3 steps to craft or 30 doesn't matter. Its the same thing. Grind for points to make the toon uber....to...do ...what, Raid Oomboo again? Oh, and you can throw LotR in there as well. Its in the same boat.
Anyway, good gaming...play what you like and get off the high horse with "its good for the common man but not good enough for me" talk.
Vanguard- has no politics whatso ever. (the community is in shambles anyway) Diplomacy - ok, it has a card game. Its grind. It offers a few buffs if you grind your eyeballs out on endless card games it offers no dynamic impact at all, its a novelty. What tools of "role playing" does Vanguard have that WoW doesn't that you don't otherwise mention? Crafting - its to an extream. Its not "depth" its a pain in the arse. Combining assorted numbers of pixel objects is not depth simply because one has fewer parts and the other tries to frustrate you by throwing in a mechanic to f**k up up. No guild fights - maybe...maybe on the single PvP server (the least populated one in an already dying game) there might a few souls doing it. Is there even a mechanic for it? I will check when I get home. "There are just a couple of raid dungeons and some battlegrounds" - none of which Vanguard has currently.
You can build a house and a guild castle...fine, they don't do anything. They have no real function. They don't generate politics at all, they are just eye candy you can decorate. Vanguard is nothing more then a low quality exsercise in grinding. Throw some crafting stations in it and all they serve is to delute an already thinned out population. All it does is generate more grind goals to meet.
Open world - yeah ok, there is Vanguards one quality, however its so large and open and in many cases, empty, it cripples the game with its raw size.
EQII - has no politics, what the heck is there to politic over in EQII? Diplomacy - zero and it has no mechanics unless players choose to RP it (which you can do in any game) Housing - instanced. You have it for decoration, It generates nothing for the game. It might serve as a guild hall or meeting place. RP tools, OK it has some nice voice emotes but some of the other emotes....yikes...whats with the spaz dance in that game? The characters look they are trying to hold in pee when they hop around dancing. Anyway, what other RP tools does it have any other game doesn't that you don't already mention? Guild vs guild - again unless you are on a PvP server, there is none either. Immersive crafting? Maybe before the revamp. Open world - NOT, Castle building - not even. There are just a couple of raid dungeons here as well.
Politics and Diplomacy are player generated actions. You can not force or put a direct mechanic in and say "see we have politics". There MUST be a catalyst to generate the politics which none of those 3 games has. Grinding on rocks so you can build a castle doesn't generate "politics". Building a castle that only serves as a bind point, crafter stop or extra storage...doesn't generate politics as long as that is its only function. Its an extra backpack space with some flashy stuff in it. That doesn't generate politics OR role playing. Only player choice does that. Decissions with consequence generates those things. The rest is meaningless fluff. This is why MMORPGs are suffering. Killing 10 rats, raiding "Oomboo the monkey king" once a week, and sifting through loot isn't what an RPG is about. (here I think we agree)
The only MMO's I have played that had successful politics with a purpose and dynamic impact were EVE and Lineage2. DAoC could have if they didn't seperate the players and made them no-communication. The rest are just varying degrees of grind mills with no other purpose other then to ding a level.
Does WoW have issues? Sure it does, there no meaning behind anything you do. Its just a grind for the sake of grinding. What has turned people on it the loot acquistion and ability to use that loot to bop other players on the head in a BG....for points (aka: grind)
I'm not gonna run down the list of WoW because you probably get my point. Agree or don't it doesn't matter. If you don't like it fine, but don't try to portray it or other games as something they are not with that "mass market" junk because it doesn't work with those 3 examples. Those games are almost all basically the same the game. You make an elf or dwarf, you pick a class and grind away until you get get bored with it. Whether there are 2 races or 20, 4 classes or 40, 3 steps to craft or 30 doesn't matter. Its the same thing. Grind for points to make the toon uber....to...do ...what, Raid Oomboo again? Oh, and you can throw LotR in there as well. Its in the same boat.
Anyway, good gaming...play what you like and get off the high horse with "its good for the common man but not good enough for me" talk.
If you want to look serious, you must bring some arguments not your highly subjective opinion.
Crafting is blend you say with no real explanation. Tell me what kind of crafting would you imagine that would meet your requirements of depths. I guess having unique crafter's inventory, crafters tools (around 40 kinds), crafting attributes (20) and a crafting minigame is not enough for you. The crafting is there and is complex and adds another sphere to the game no matter if you like it or not.
Yes Vanguard offers guild houses, ships, building noninstanced housing. Your question is so what? What effect does it have on gameplay... What did you expect? That you get + 5% critical chance if you build your own house or what? If its not enough for you to build your own ship or house or a huge castle for your guild, then just stay in WoW and accumulate your items next decades.
Yes there is diplomacy as an additional card game minigame that offers you to know a lot about the lore behind the game. Yes you say its just another grind, but what is NOT a grind? Having different kinds of grind activities makes the fun if you can switch between them frequently.
I wasnt referring that vanguard has politics, but its another aspect a mmorpg has that WoW lacks. From those 8 aspects WoW lacks 6 and all it has are raids and battlegrounds.
And about enforcing roleplaying, I guess building your own house or ship and then decorating it is not enough roleplaying. Also loong discussions with NPC's and learning a lot of lore is not enough. The fact that guild houses offers crafting tables for its members, teleports doesnt enforce guild meetings there? What dou you consider a roleplaying enforcing rules? Being watched by GM and if you do it right you get + 5% critical chance buff? I guess everything in your best-dreamed MMORPG must be counted in numbers and everything must have stated obvious reward (item reward of course). I call it WoW deformation.
REALITY CHECK
Haha you guys are crazy. The OP probably jumped ship at about half the current thread pages and you're still writing your essays on Vanguard and EQ2. Talk about off topic.
EQ2 all the way.
Funny that the SOE is evil came into play. They actually turned the game around and made it a excellent MMO superior to everything on the market at the moment.
Gameplay wise, content wise and community wise.
eqnext.wikia.com
At any rate, you have all given me ample reasons to play WoW and a few for EQ2 (and one, albeit HUGE vote for Vanguard). Being that I do have the time sunk into EQ2, I'm thinking of giving that a go, as it has been a year and a half since I played...it sounds like a lot has changed since then. Hell, I may even throw in and get station access for a month and see either 1) what an improvement SOE has made on Vanguard or that 2) Vanguard is a desolate wasteland where it is impossible to get a groun (and if that is the case, I'll free up the 20 Gb of space on my HDD).
I cannot discount WoW either, although it sounds like the end-game sucks horridly (hmmmm...may have to start another post on that). I'm thinking that levelling in WoW sounds like a hell of a good time, but what do you do once you hit the level-cap and have done all the quests once or twice? From what I have seen of WoW, you are pretty much led from one area to the next by quests. If that holds true, the game is pretty much over once you've ran a couple characters to the cap. That certainly makes EQ2 look better (I certainly don't have hours a day to raid).
At any rate, thank you all for your time and energy here; I hope to see you all in-game (I WILL update this with what I decide to go with, if you all care to check back from time to time).
Nah, I made it all the way here; I had to see what would happen next...LOL.At any rate, you have all given me ample reasons to play WoW and a few for EQ2 (and one, albeit HUGE vote for Vanguard). Being that I do have the time sunk into EQ2, I'm thinking of giving that a go, as it has been a year and a half since I played...it sounds like a lot has changed since then. Hell, I may even throw in and get station access for a month and see either 1) what an improvement SOE has made on Vanguard or that 2) Vanguard is a desolate wasteland where it is impossible to get a groun (and if that is the case, I'll free up the 20 Gb of space on my HDD).
I cannot discount WoW either, although it sounds like the end-game sucks horridly (hmmmm...may have to start another post on that). I'm thinking that levelling in WoW sounds like a hell of a good time, but what do you do once you hit the level-cap and have done all the quests once or twice? From what I have seen of WoW, you are pretty much led from one area to the next by quests. If that holds true, the game is pretty much over once you've ran a couple characters to the cap. That certainly makes EQ2 look better (I certainly don't have hours a day to raid).
At any rate, thank you all for your time and energy here; I hope to see you all in-game (I WILL update this with what I decide to go with, if you all care to check back from time to time).
The endgame in WOW is what you make it. IF you join a guild that meets your needs, you can ENJOY it. Now that raids are only 20 man, theres not nearly as much pressure as the old 40 man days. if you just want to do the odd raid, join a casual raiding guild Its really not as bad as people make it out to be. Raids can be exciting and fun, they certainly don;t have to take up your life.
People get into the mindset "all or nothing" with WOW it seems. However theres plenty of raiding going on in EQ2 as well.
Honestly I had a lot more fun in WOW than EQ2 overall, though both are great games.