Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
TR = "for the casual gamer" ???
ThompsonSub
Member UncommonPosts: 147
in Tabula Rasa
I've heard a few people on these forums saying that Tabula Rasa is aimed at the "casual gamer market"...
I'm curious how that could even be slightly true.
Fact review:
Over 100 million US dollars invested in the product + Substantial operating costs per month.
Where does anyone get the idea that "casual gamers" would generate the revenue to cover just the development costs, let alone continued maintenance costs, of the game ??
I would seriously like to see some comments explaining how anyone could justify such monsterous development costs and in the same breath say that the game was aimed at people who can play 3 hours a week.
Comments
1) There are a lot more "casual" gamers than "hardcore" gamers out there.
2) Regardless of how much time/energy/focus a person puts into a game, the subscription fee is the same.
To summarize, casual gamer's money is just is green as hardcore gamer's money, so the devs took their fishing poles to the pond with the most fish (casual gamers). We'll see how well the bait is received come release day.
Let me add one:
3. casual gamers have far less emotional attachment to video game characters and tend to walk away at the first sign of boredom.
I can't see that as a sustainable market.
You're right, though, it will sink or swim on release day.
Unfortunately I'm in the sink group because the game, to me, is like a bad console game with no replayability.
I am curious; where did you find that Tabula Rasa has exceeded 100 million in development costs?
Well there are basically two ways that people negatively react to games.
1) This game is too easy and boring. When this is the reaction, the game is labeled as "casual friendly." People who fall for this like to brag about how their game is only for people who have lives (see: LotRO fanboys).
2) This game is too hard and no fun. When this is the reaction, the game is labeled a "hardcore experience." People who fall for this like to brag about how their game is only for smart people (see: EVE Online fanboys).
It's basically just a way to try to mitigate bad press and there are enough suckers that fall for it that companies keep doing it. Has little to do with the actual target audience or anything like that. Just ignore it.
Frittison;
There was a several paragraph article in the Korean times stating the following:
"NCsoft has invested several hundred billion Won in the game and is desperate for it to succeed"
100 Billion Korean Won = over 100 million USD. (note they said SEVERAL hundred billion)
The article has since been removed as it was very embarrassing to NCsoft.
It was posted multiple times on this site and the beta boards for the game.
Here is a sister article that hasn't yet been deleted:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/biz_view.asp?newsIdx=10753&categoryCode=123
Note the following quote from the article:
" NCsoft is to release ``Tabula Rasa'' on Oct. 19, which will be a critical test for its long-term survival. A failure could be too much for the firm and its CEO Kim, considering the amount of investment and resources the project has devoured."
It's all true, bro, Garriott milked them for over 100 million dollars to put out a half finished game.
Here is an article where NCsoft states they won't be supporting his little jaunt into space:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/biz_view.asp?newsIdx=11062&categoryCode=123
Firstly - we dont have to justify anything on development costs. Thats NCSofts problem.
Secondly - 3 hours a week is your idea of a casual gamer.
Cant find an article to quote - but they have said the game is targetted at casual gamers. People who want to hop on for 30 minutes to an hour or two, do some missions, have some fun and feel like they have achieved something.
The game is
- solo friendly
- has teleporters , wormholes and drop ships to reduce travel time.
- instances are upto an hours play.
All of those are aimed at people who dont want to waste time on looking for groups, or travelling for 15 to 30 minutes just to meet up with someone/get somewhere so they can actually start playing and have limited playing time.
I would class myself as a casual gamer. I can play 1 to 2 hours a night. So say somewhere between 20 to 60 hours a month. Which means after the initial purchase price of the game - I am paying anywhere from $0.25 to $1 an hour for my entertainment.
That works for me - cheaper than a movie, book, dvd rental, cable tv.
Bungie's costs for development of Halo 3 (not including marketing) was $30M.
Until you spread your wings, you have no idea how far you can walk.
IMO, It is doubtful that it will work for the MMO market as a whole.
Maybe there is some hidden and untapped "casual gamer" market all set to explode but I haven't seen one in the dozen, or so, years that massive online games have existed.
/shrug
We'll see.
When the cat's away, the mice will play.
And get all the cream, as well.
The cat lived in Seoul, and the mice in Austin
just played all those years away.
EA is now vindicated. All these years since UO everybody ragging on EA because they thwarted the visionary signiture creative legendary Lord British... Anyone else notice all the ads for UO on the TR threads? LOL--
Until you spread your wings, you have no idea how far you can walk.
the game is aimed at suckers willing to cough up 45 bucks for the box and 15 bucks a month for the subcription just to support an ongoing open beta
they are also hoping that these rubes will only play an hour or two a week so they don't realize just how shallow the entire mess is
anyone investing more time than that in a single session will quickly realize that they've bought into a gilded turd with no long-lasting appeal and no staying power
fanbois will love it
wow and guildwars. while wow does cater hard core for end game, the lvling 1 thru lvl cap is what the causals dig. i myself am casual and i did play wow for 2 + years just lvling up chars not doing engame. so yes we do stick around.
it is the contrary, hardcore gamers will not stick around unless the game meets their demands, they are the 1st to jump ship if another game comes out that meets thier needs.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
only thing I can say: i AM a CASUAL GAMER
But i'll never pay for this. CG isn't a bad gamer or a stupid consumer. Played DAOC VG WOW Lotro Eve WWIIOnline etc etc/ same games than yours. You need 1 month to reach lvl 50 at lotro ? I need 2/3 months that's all. Play video games since 20 years. i'm CG because i can't play 3/5H by day ^^ . Nothing else. CG arent' noobs.
TR isn't for casual, TR is for... don't know exactly, maybe very very very casual gamer , you don' t even have to group...
To the OP. Casual gamers are (and have always been) a huge portion of the MMO market. Hardcore players are the minority. Your logic regarding CGs funding a game doesn't make sense to me. Everyone pays the same fee, wether they play 60 hours a week or 6. That doesn't mean the game will succeed, but targetting the CG is not the bonehead tactic you make it out to be.
Most hardcore gamers seem to burn through games and content faster than any developer can hope to maintain. HGs are more apt to get bored, quit and take their money with them than CGs IMO.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
LOL, then explain why there is still a huge gang of 220s that play Anarchy Online ?
Here's a hint:
Because hardcore people get attached to their characters, casuals have no such attachment.
If that proves your point in your opinion, then I'll not argue with it.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Merely an example, the proof will be in the pudding.
Fuzzy thinking, blanket statements and anecdotal logic at it's finest.
You have to remember that 100 big one$ is only a little over 2 Million boxes sold to recoup the investment/developement cost.
This is set up to hook the asian with the mindbogglingly repetativeness over leveling your clones through the same missions over and over. And it is trying to hook the American market by offering a 'shooter' console game in MMORPG format. With that, 2.2 million boxes sold is an easy achievement.
But with huge names like Halo3 only costing a few hours of programming and $30 million startup costs is it any wonder why MMORPGs dev teams are churning out garbage? The best programmers are following the money... and the money is all in console style games for the Mt Dew IV drip crowd.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
See above?
Some people say that "HARD CORE GAMERS" fall in love with their characters and stick around to live vicariously through them rather than their pathetic lives in their mother's basement... ok, I added the second part. But in the same breath we hear that HARD CORE GAMERS are the first to jump ship to a new game. It can't be both.
Sooooo, with that in mind, it is time for Christine to start a definition thread to finally, once and for all, define exactly what type of creature each of these two gaming species actually are.
Gaming Taxonomy 101....
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
TBH, Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa both should have been console games.
Neither of them give/gave the feeling of an MMO and both of them give/gave the feeling of a console type single player game.
I seriously doubt they will sell 2.2 million boxes for TR, I just can't see 2.2 million people wanting to waste money on a product that is getting panned universally in the public forums and the press.
There are just too many good games coming out to waste money on Garriotts half finished, and content free, "(un)revolutionary and (not)innovative vision".
That statement is pretty bogus. Publisher's don't get anywhere close to the $50 people usually pay at retail. It would take A LOT more than "a little over 2 million boxes" to recoup a 100 million investment. I doubt TR will be able to sell 2,000,000 boxes ever, even from the bargin bin.
You're also making a huge assumption about the Asian market, which is dominated by free to play and item mall games. The games that do charge monthly fees usually have free clients. Also don't expect most of the Asian market to pay anywhere near $50 US for a boxed game.
There is no official information on how much NCsoft spent on the ``Tabula Rasa'' project. But sources say it could have cost the firm around $100 million in total over six years _ a considerable burden for a firm with $240 million in annual sales.
Other than the financial overload, the ``Tabula Rasa'' project was one of the big reasons many employees of NCsoft lost their confidence in CEO Kim. He hired Richard Garriott and his brother Robert Garriott in 2001 by allegedly paying 16 billion won ($17 million) in cash and 1.5 million shares in stock options, worth 50 billion won. But the brothers failed to deliver the product as promised, and the project has been protracted for six years.
OP:
Considering the following paragraph states the the CEO (Kim) hired Garriot and his brother to head the NCAustin offices to the tune of 70 million dollars (US), and if that figure is being added into the sum of the Tabula Rasa project by those unofficial sources, then what does one draw as a conclusion? The actual development cost of the Tabula Rasa project itself is in the neighborhood of 30 million US.
My opinion is that NCSoft is calculating the total operating cost of NCAustin for the past six years into their total investment portfolio. Also without official sources actually saying that $100 million was directly apportioned to the development cost of TR and not operating costs of NCAustin as a whole, OP you are basing your conclusion on heresay and not actual fact. So, claiming a FACT REVIEW is an extreme fallacy.
I have to disagree, 30 million dollars spread over 6 years would not be breaking the back of NCsoft.
The article says: "considering the amount of investment and resources the project has devoured."
Note the words "the project", that statement does not imply anything that is inclusive of the hiring of the Garriotts.
I think that the two versions of the game have eaten a tremendous amount of capital and that much of it has been squandered by Garriott's mismanagement.
Don't forget, that first "dream team" of devs at DG didn't come on board with out large contractual promises.
Everyone of them was in the top of their fields and those people got paid a huge amount of money before they walked.
That statement is pretty bogus. Publisher's don't get anywhere close to the $50 people usually pay at retail. It would take A LOT more than "a little over 2 million boxes" to recoup a 100 million investment. I doubt TR will be able to sell 2,000,000 boxes ever...
Oh, yes, I totally understand that the recoup on investment is far and away more complex than that simplified example, but I am trying to show that for a company to spend a hundred million on a project is really not a big investment. (Especially over a half decade)I used to work for a pharmaceutical company and our material in process on any given would be about a hundred million. It is a piffle.
Anyhow, I have now played a total of two hours worth of TR and well... that is about all I figure its distraction value is worth. I paid my five bucks and now I am going elsewhere and freeing up harddrive space where this game used to be.
Granted I didn't play this for months to learn the "twue game" that lurks deep in the hardcore gamer's view... didn't have to. I know what I like, I know what I feel when playing a game and this one is not tastey.
On to the next!
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
Exclude my 5 euro i wasted on preorder (to get in beta and delete 2 weeks later)