Originally posted by Opticaleye The game is up and running and doing quite well.Please dont go over the top and post population numbers or argue with me because i dont really care.The game is NOT a failure in its current state.Failure implies noone is playing it. Have a great day!!!
I went back using the free trial to see how the game was doing. Never going to pay for SWG again UNLESS I see a Pre-CU server open up. My old server is like a bad episode of Twilight Zone. I felt so lonely. Eventually after some searching I found a few people and they told me to make a character on Bria or Bloodfin. Ahazi was another good choice, but Bria and Bloodfin were the only ones on my list that weren't Light/Very LIght, as they were both Medium. This was this Friday at 8PM PST. So yes most vets DO know the game is still alive and there are people playing, BUT it is not the same! It is a dumb down version of the game we all played and loved! Sure there were bugs and things that needed to be fixed, but not one player said "You know what just change everything!" And I am certainly not trying to rain on your parade.
If you like NGE go play it have fun. I'm not asking for a Roll-Back or anything of that nature. They screwed over their user base far to many times to even do that, but I wouldn't put that past SOE. I'm simply asking for a NEW server that's Pre-CU that I could play on, as well as many of my friends who also wish that style of game back. A new server would not affect you in any other way, other than you might create a character on that server too, just to see what all the fuss was about. Now there will eventually be a Pre-CU whether SOE wants it or not. Either SOE will be the one making the Pre-CU servers or one of the many SWG emu's that are in development.
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Currently Playing: Eve-Online On the Backburner: EQ2 Retired: EQ, DAoC, WW2Online RIP: AC2 Tried: Ryzom, Roma Victor, RoM, KH2, Forsaken World, AO, AoC, APB Quit: SWG PRE-CU(Radiant/Starsider), WoW
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
All I can say, is if I were SOE and Smed, and LEC did have a significant role in the NGE design, implementation, or were the ones who flat out ordered it done, I'd not allow them to continue to hide behind me and force me to accept full blame.
Methinks that SOE would have said so long ago if LEC had an attributable role in the NGE fiasco (other than giving their idea the go ahead) if for no other reason than to have an answer for the "NGE Question" that crops up every time they are involved in any MMO....
"LucasArts made us do the NGE" is a lot better answer than "we wont' do it again".
Granted, LEC deserves much blame, nearly equal to SOE, since they could have prevented the CUNGE, and SHOULD, as managers of their own product and with the most to gain or lose by satisfying/pissing off the Star Wars fan base, DONE SO...
My sources have told me that LEC has never really had any significant role in SWG, other than approving the use of canonical stuff, and other than content in the two EP3 tie in expansions, no real development role.
LEC's presence in SWG has always consisted of a couple of guys who act basically as liasons between SOE and LEC. That's all that Julio "Tora! Tora!! TORRES!!!" really was, nothing more than a messenger boy with a producer title.
--- Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
In regards to the OP I wish i could have jessica alba under my desk here. I think the odds of that are the same as LA giving an apology lol.At least Smed is admitting his problem thats first step in getting help even though it took 4 years and 250k vets throwing it in his face
*Games on our site will be treated just as we treat people. Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons. Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
I agree that the time after NGE was very bad. A lot of things were disabled and removed.. But, I think it was neccesary. The game is much better now. I wouldn't call the period we are in for SWG:NGE rather SWG: POST NGE. The game is really good, things are working and new great and fun content is being pumped out. The SOE team is incredible, very professional and good. The chapters are full of updates and you only have to wait a few months for a complete chapter. I'm very anxious to see more of SWG's development. In my opinion a lot of the people who hate SWG are just hurt, but if they could try to forget all that and give it a serious try again they will feel that the game is whole and has recovered.
Are you a SOE employee or have you only been duped into thinking that the current SWG is the way forward?
Wake up man!
Even many of the current low budget, free to play MMO games are more fun than the current SWG-NGE crap!
Is todays NGE better than the one released back in November 2005? Well of course it is, but still it doesn't necessary mean that it is a good game.
Building on top of a rotten foundation is and has always been a very bad idea. Meaning that no matter how many shiny things they put on top of the NGE, it is and will forever be a rotten and extremely boring game.
If you actually happen to like the NGE, well congratulations! You are one of very few...
I really don't need an apology, coming from LA and SOE at this point it's nothing more than marketing fluff in their pathetic attempt to win back my business.
Isn't going to happen. When I pay for a product and you deliver crap code, shoddy service, and outright lies, I have this trait called "ability to learn" that is inconvenient for you ... because in the future, I don't do business with you.
So save the apology, and I'll save my dough for people who don't lie and ship crap. It's pretty simple.
I agree that the time after NGE was very bad. A lot of things were disabled and removed.. But, I think it was neccesary. The game is much better now. I wouldn't call the period we are in for SWG:NGE rather SWG: POST NGE. The game is really good, things are working and new great and fun content is being pumped out. The SOE team is incredible, very professional and good. The chapters are full of updates and you only have to wait a few months for a complete chapter. I'm very anxious to see more of SWG's development. In my opinion a lot of the people who hate SWG are just hurt, but if they could try to forget all that and give it a serious try again they will feel that the game is whole and has recovered.
Are you a SOE employee or have you only been duped into thinking that the current SWG is the way forward?
Wake up man!
Even many of the current low budget, free to play MMO games are more fun than the current SWG-NGE crap!
Is todays NGE better than the one released back in November 2005? Well of course it is, but still it doesn't necessary mean that it is a good game.
Building on top of a rotten foundation is and has always been a very bad idea. Meaning that no matter how many shiny things they put on top of the NGE, it is and will forever be a rotten and extremely boring game.
If you actually happen to like the NGE, well congratulations! You are one of very few...
Exactly right. Which is why they are doomed. They've spent the last 2 years building stuff, some decent (the battlefields) some not (the crappy crafting non revamp) on top of a foundation no one wants.
Had they rolled back the game in early `06, THEN worked with the community to improve the pre-NGE game, they'd be in a LOT better position today than they are. This point is so obvious that there really isn't any argument against it at this point.
The problem is that instead of this, SOE chose to waste their efforts (and their dwindling customers time) trying to prove that they could turn a turd into gold with enough polishing.
As for LEC, they stand to lose the most out of this. SOE still has customers that play other MMOs of theirs who never played SWG. So there is still a base for them to work with. LucasArts has only one thing to sell: Star Wars, and only one group of people: Star Wars fans. Their role in the CUNGE fiasco has alienated from them a sizeable percentage of Star Wars game consumers...
Of course it doesn't help that they've not released a good game since KOTOR2 in 2004.
--- Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
I agree that the time after NGE was very bad. A lot of things were disabled and removed.. But, I think it was neccesary. The game is much better now. I wouldn't call the period we are in for SWG:NGE rather SWG: POST NGE. The game is really good, things are working and new great and fun content is being pumped out. The SOE team is incredible, very professional and good. The chapters are full of updates and you only have to wait a few months for a complete chapter. I'm very anxious to see more of SWG's development. In my opinion a lot of the people who hate SWG are just hurt, but if they could try to forget all that and give it a serious try again they will feel that the game is whole and has recovered.
Are you a SOE employee or have you only been duped into thinking that the current SWG is the way forward?
Wake up man!
Even many of the current low budget, free to play MMO games are more fun than the current SWG-NGE crap!
Is todays NGE better than the one released back in November 2005? Well of course it is, but still it doesn't necessary mean that it is a good game.
Building on top of a rotten foundation is and has always been a very bad idea. Meaning that no matter how many shiny things they put on top of the NGE, it is and will forever be a rotten and extremely boring game.
If you actually happen to like the NGE, well congratulations! You are one of very few...
Exactly right. Which is why they are doomed. They've spent the last 2 years building stuff, some decent (the battlefields) some not (the crappy crafting non revamp) on top of a foundation no one wants.
Had they rolled back the game in early `06, THEN worked with the community to improve the pre-NGE game, they'd be in a LOT better position today than they are. This point is so obvious that there really isn't any argument against it at this point.
The problem is that instead of this, SOE chose to waste their efforts (and their dwindling customers time) trying to prove that they could turn a turd into gold with enough polishing.
As for LEC, they stand to lose the most out of this. SOE still has customers that play other MMOs of theirs who never played SWG. So there is still a base for them to work with. LucasArts has only one thing to sell: Star Wars, and only one group of people: Star Wars fans. Their role in the CUNGE fiasco has alienated from them a sizeable percentage of Star Wars game consumers...
Of course it doesn't help that they've not released a good game since KOTOR2 in 2004.
And as long as Jim Ward is at the helm of LEC. They wont release another good game for years to come. And Julio Torres beeing producer of their new game: The force unleashed wont help either. I have a bad feeling about any potential sequel for SWG. They will prolly screw up that one too. Why? becouse they lack vision, leadership and balls.
Hauken Stormchaser I want pre-CU back Station.com : We got your game Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
What also makes me sick is that SOE had a staff designing the NGE, the CU, and the Obi Wan trials- all at the same time. And current updates polish, and fixes, is implemented with a skeleton crew since the NGE. Even though I have to admit this dev team is good but the game progresses so slowly with the repair they are implementing. It is just a shame how this all played out. Lucas Arts played a role in approving the NGE. They screwed the DEVS and the fan base over who were working on and playing SWG Pre NGE. They need to apologize regardless if the stick is so high- they made statements that are extremely insulting to the consumer.
ROFL... That was the biggest let down for ep3 I was really hoping to see Vader do a death choke on him or anyone kill him. Thats the only thing SWG got right in that aspect going out and killing endless gungans was fun not $15 a month fun though lol
Originally posted by royalpenalty
...are you kidding? we're still waiting for an apology for Jar Jar!
*Games on our site will be treated just as we treat people. Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons. Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
What also makes me sick is that SOE had a staff designing the NGE, the CU, and the Obi Wan trials- all at the same time. And current updates polish, and fixes, is implemented with a skeleton crew since the NGE. Even though I have to admit this dev team is good but the game progresses so slowly with the repair they are implementing. It is just a shame how this all played out. Lucas Arts played a role in approving the NGE. They screwed the DEVS and the fan base over who were working on and playing SWG Pre NGE. They need to apologize regardless if the stick is so high- they made statements that are extremely insulting to the consumer.
All while Smed posts on the SWG forums (convienently deleted btw) that "The CU is here to stay". This was 4 months before the NGE.
Think they came up with the idea for the NGE and coded it (as pathetic as it was) in less than 4 months?
I don't think so either.
Smed is a liar. He is not genuinely sorry for anything because he did what he did willfully. And oh, btw, he still won't give us our game back, which is the ONLY proper thing to do if he really WERE sorry, which he isn't.
The only thing John Smedley is sorry about is that he didn't get away with it.
And oh, he didn't... Soon SWG will be dead. Along with the rest of SOE. They are truly a dead company walking. SOE has negative value as a brand. They are like Firestone right after the defective SUV tire fiasco.
--- Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
What also makes me sick is that SOE had a staff designing the NGE, the CU, and the Obi Wan trials- all at the same time. And current updates polish, and fixes, is implemented with a skeleton crew since the NGE. Even though I have to admit this dev team is good but the game progresses so slowly with the repair they are implementing. It is just a shame how this all played out. Lucas Arts played a role in approving the NGE. They screwed the DEVS and the fan base over who were working on and playing SWG Pre NGE. They need to apologize regardless if the stick is so high- they made statements that are extremely insulting to the consumer.
All while Smed posts on the SWG forums (convienently deleted btw) that "The CU is here to stay". This was 4 months before the NGE.
Think they came up with the idea for the NGE and coded it (as pathetic as it was) in less than 4 months?
I don't think so either.
Smed is a liar. He is not genuinely sorry for anything because he did what he did willfully. And oh, btw, he still won't give us our game back, which is the ONLY proper thing to do if he really WERE sorry, which he isn't.
The only thing John Smedley is sorry about is that he didn't get away with it.
And oh, he didn't... Soon SWG will be dead. Along with the rest of SOE. They are truly a dead company walking. SOE has negative value as a brand. They are like Firestone right after the defective SUV tire fiasco.
QFE (in red)
The only reason Smed "apologized" was because the taint of the NGE just wont wash off, and follows SOE around like a rank fart, stinking up whatever projects they lay their money grubbin' hands on.
I cant even count how many "if SOE's involved, I wont touch it..." type posts Ive seen on various gaming forums. Word of mouth is taking SOE apart piece by piece, and the bs that SOE likes to put forth about it being nothing more than a "vocal minority" is just propaganda, plain and simple.
What they did with SWG wasnt just a "mistake in timing and communication" as SOE likes to say, it was a conscious decision to sacrifice their current playerbase for a slice of the WoW pie they envy so much. But instead all they got was a half baked twinkie filled with poo, mmmm, taste the love. All I can say to SOE is "you reap what you sow."
As for an apology from LA, Im not expecting one, nor do I require one from them (though something along the lines of "we regret giving SOE the SW ip" would suit me just fine, lol). It was SOE who came up with the ideas, it was SOE who dev'd it, and it was SOE that pushed it all forward with glee. All LA did was basically say "this is the SW ip, which has millions of fans worldwide, we should be doing better, fix it." Was LA wrong for approving the changes, hell yes they were, but not as wrong as the people that developed and pushed those ideas forward to LA in the first place, and thatd be SOE.
"Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"
Was lurking saw someone say Kotor II was a bad game. I disagree completely. Loved that game, still love it. Love bringing people to the dark side.
Now for the subject at hand. For this i'll play Joe Sucker the consumer, who doesn't visit forums, Works 40+ hours a week in a hot sweaty shop with raging aholes everywhere you look.
Joe walks into Gamespot/EBgames whatever and sees a game based on his favorite movies Starwars. He picks it up, it describes the game, and how its on-line only etc, he buys it takes it home loads it and plays it.
From this perspective do you think Joe Sucker thinks its a bad game? Bad Company? that they need to apologize? I don't think so. He most likely will find a few hours of release from an already chaotic life and maybe find momentary happiness in a progressive on-line world. And he's happy that they made it.
As long as they don't make similar mistakes in the future the game will be successful and maybe the changes they made that upset so many people will cater more to the Working Man Joe Sucker.
Perspective is everything, Relativity is everywhere, Don't limit your mind if your young, and if your old its to late you'll always be an ahole.
Kazer "Baning Smokers from public places is like baning people from water who like to pee."
A new player unaware of the NGE fiasco and SOE's evil reputation who picked up the game and played it would still experience a broken and confusing UI, bud-ugly particle effects, mobs that shoot at them through walls and hills, and nothing that resembles Star Wars any more than Diablo with lightsabers would.
The NGE failed not just because of our outrage, it also failed on it's merits. It didn't have any. Had it been any good our outrage wouldn't have been as effective, since ANY outside observer would come to the conclusion that our game pre NGE was better.
--- Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
Was lurking saw someone say Kotor II was a bad game. I disagree completely. Loved that game, still love it. Love bringing people to the dark side. Now for the subject at hand. For this i'll play Joe Sucker the consumer, who doesn't visit forums, Works 40+ hours a week in a hot sweaty shop with raging aholes everywhere you look. Joe walks into Gamespot/EBgames whatever and sees a game based on his favorite movies Starwars. He picks it up, it describes the game, and how its on-line only etc, he buys it takes it home loads it and plays it. From this perspective do you think Joe Sucker thinks its a bad game? Bad Company? that they need to apologize? I don't think so. He most likely will find a few hours of release from an already chaotic life and maybe find momentary happiness in a progressive on-line world. And he's happy that they made it. As long as they don't make similar mistakes in the future the game will be successful and maybe the changes they made that upset so many people will cater more to the Working Man Joe Sucker. Perspective is everything, Relativity is everywhere, Don't limit your mind if your young, and if your old its to late you'll always be an ahole.
Or Joe Sucker could be just like me. Someone who works 40 hours a week,raging aholes, etc.. and cannot find momentary happiness in any current game because he finds them all repetitive, redundant, and dull.
Maybe Joe Sucker wants more out of his gaming experience. Something that can be cerebral, social, and relaxing all at the same time. I believe that there are a great number of people like that out there. People who are craving a deep and immersive world where no one is holding your hand and guiding you through generic levels to reach an end-game of what?
I simply want a game where the community comes first, not me as a generic character. I want a dynamic and ever-evolving online society with real choices and consequences, set in an imaginative and unique environment which allows one to be creative.
Or Joe Sucker could be just like me. Someone who works 40 hours a week,raging aholes, etc.. and cannot find momentary happiness in any current game because he finds them all repetitive, redundant, and dull.
Maybe Joe Sucker wants more out of his gaming experience. Something that can be cerebral, social, and relaxing all at the same time. I believe that there are a great number of people like that out there. People who are craving a deep and immersive world where no one is holding your hand and guiding you through generic levels to reach an end-game of what? I simply want a game where the community comes first, not me as a generic character. I want a dynamic and ever-evolving online society with real choices and consequences, set in an imaginative and unique environment which allows one to be creative. Maybe Joe Sucker does too.
May I say - QFE
This is me. I'm not a power gamer. I don't have 10, 20, 40 hours a week to spend on a game and if I did, I wouldn't. I want something that doesn't revolve around combat and require research into the minutia of the game sytem to find that optimal combination of attacks, armor, PU, what have you. I want a game where I can slip into a different skin and for a few hours live a different life with others of similiar mindset.
Yes, community must come first. Which is why, for me, this is a non-negotiable issue when it comes to returning to SWG. There must be sufficient community or I don't give a rat's hindend what "improvements" have been done. I don't hate SOE for what they have done to SWG but I am skeptical and wary of them. Ultimately, I don't care about apologies or classic servers or any of that nonsense. Show me the community or my $15 bucks stays where it is. In the wife's purse.
The thing about KOTOR II is that is really is a good game...that could have been even better. It's just that it's obviously unfinished...because LA wanted it in the stores by a specific date, and would not take "but it's not ready!" for an answer from Obsidian.
I mean, look at SWG? Rushed out the door when it still needed six months work, then we see things like the CU, RotW, ToOW, and the NGE rushed out to publishing so that they meet the marketing needs of the greater Lucas Empire pushing Ep III, as if it wasn't already the most hyped bit of celluloid to hit the streets at the time it came out...what with happy meal tie ins and displays in WalMart and everything else that was done. Sith happens!
When you let marketing rule everything, you wind up selling shit in a box. People will eventually figure this out, but in the meantime, rule of aquisition #1 is fully in effect.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
The thing about KOTOR II is that is really is a good game...that could have been even better. It's just that it's obviously unfinished...because LA wanted it in the stores by a specific date, and would not take "but it's not ready!" for an answer from Obsidian. I mean, look at SWG? Rushed out the door when it still needed six months work, then we see things like the CU, RotW, ToOW, and the NGE rushed out to publishing so that they meet the marketing needs of the greater Lucas Empire pushing Ep III, as if it wasn't already the most hyped bit of celluloid to hit the streets at the time it came out...what with happy meal tie ins and displays in WalMart and everything else that was done. Sith happens! When you let marketing rule everything, you wind up selling shit in a box. People will eventually figure this out, but in the meantime, rule of aquisition #1 is fully in effect.
Ever think they were pushed out unfinished due to the lazy incompitance of the teams developing it? I'm not one to be an LA apologetist, but there's plenty of blame to be placed on those actually coding the games.
Or as $OE, Sigil and Perpetual taught us.. those running the companies developing the games.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I can't blame the developers for the premature release of any game when you know the management consists of Ferengi beancounting scum who cannot wait a nanosecond for their ROI.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
I can't blame the developers for the premature release of any game when you know the management consists of Ferengi beancounting scum who cannot wait a nanosecond for their ROI.
I learned LONG ago to ignore as incompetent anyone who tries to sell me something based on "ROI and TCO" and other famous marketing buzzwords.
Those who only care about the tangibles (tapping into millions of WoW players) inevitably screw up the intangibles (the loyalty of their EXISTING customers) and inevitably fail (NGE losing 200,000+ subscribers, more than 75% of the previous total).
--- Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The thing about KOTOR II is that is really is a good game...that could have been even better. It's just that it's obviously unfinished...because LA wanted it in the stores by a specific date, and would not take "but it's not ready!" for an answer from Obsidian. I mean, look at SWG? Rushed out the door when it still needed six months work, then we see things like the CU, RotW, ToOW, and the NGE rushed out to publishing so that they meet the marketing needs of the greater Lucas Empire pushing Ep III, as if it wasn't already the most hyped bit of celluloid to hit the streets at the time it came out...what with happy meal tie ins and displays in WalMart and everything else that was done. Sith happens! When you let marketing rule everything, you wind up selling shit in a box. People will eventually figure this out, but in the meantime, rule of aquisition #1 is fully in effect.
Ever think they were pushed out unfinished due to the lazy incompitance of the teams developing it? I'm not one to be an LA apologetist, but there's plenty of blame to be placed on those actually coding the games.
Or as $OE, Sigil and Perpetual taught us.. those running the companies developing the games.
KotOR II wasn't released unfinished because Obsidian didn't finish it in time for release, it was released unfinished because LucasArts decided, half way through development, to cut six months off of the development time. It was a project that was supposed to have 18 months of development, but was changed to 12 months, 9 months into development. KotOR II's development was much different than SWG's, which was given an extra six months, yet wasn't finished by then. Hell, the NGE was released on time, and almost two years later it is still an unfinished piece of crap.
The thing about KOTOR II is that is really is a good game...that could have been even better. It's just that it's obviously unfinished...because LA wanted it in the stores by a specific date, and would not take "but it's not ready!" for an answer from Obsidian. I mean, look at SWG? Rushed out the door when it still needed six months work, then we see things like the CU, RotW, ToOW, and the NGE rushed out to publishing so that they meet the marketing needs of the greater Lucas Empire pushing Ep III, as if it wasn't already the most hyped bit of celluloid to hit the streets at the time it came out...what with happy meal tie ins and displays in WalMart and everything else that was done. Sith happens! When you let marketing rule everything, you wind up selling shit in a box. People will eventually figure this out, but in the meantime, rule of aquisition #1 is fully in effect.
Ever think they were pushed out unfinished due to the lazy incompitance of the teams developing it? I'm not one to be an LA apologetist, but there's plenty of blame to be placed on those actually coding the games.
Or as $OE, Sigil and Perpetual taught us.. those running the companies developing the games.
KotOR II wasn't released unfinished because Obsidian didn't finish it in time for release, it was released unfinished because LucasArts decided, half way through development, to cut six months off of the development time. It was a project that was supposed to have 18 months of development, but was changed to 12 months, 9 months into development. KotOR II's development was much different than SWG's, which was given an extra six months, yet wasn't finished by then. Hell, the NGE was released on time, and almost two years later it is still an unfinished piece of crap.
From what i read, Obsidian had used all the 18 months worth of money up in the year. LA cut the time due to major cost overruns.
I'm not saying LA was 100% blameless, but Obsidian was hardly innocent. Far from it.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Comments
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Currently Playing: Eve-Online
On the Backburner: EQ2
Retired: EQ, DAoC, WW2Online
RIP: AC2
Tried: Ryzom, Roma Victor, RoM, KH2, Forsaken World, AO, AoC, APB
Quit: SWG PRE-CU(Radiant/Starsider), WoW
Achiever 47% / Explorer 40% / Killer 87% / Socializer 27%
They didn't make it. Why apologize?
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
All I can say, is if I were SOE and Smed, and LEC did have a significant role in the NGE design, implementation, or were the ones who flat out ordered it done, I'd not allow them to continue to hide behind me and force me to accept full blame.
Methinks that SOE would have said so long ago if LEC had an attributable role in the NGE fiasco (other than giving their idea the go ahead) if for no other reason than to have an answer for the "NGE Question" that crops up every time they are involved in any MMO....
"LucasArts made us do the NGE" is a lot better answer than "we wont' do it again".
Granted, LEC deserves much blame, nearly equal to SOE, since they could have prevented the CUNGE, and SHOULD, as managers of their own product and with the most to gain or lose by satisfying/pissing off the Star Wars fan base, DONE SO...
My sources have told me that LEC has never really had any significant role in SWG, other than approving the use of canonical stuff, and other than content in the two EP3 tie in expansions, no real development role.
LEC's presence in SWG has always consisted of a couple of guys who act basically as liasons between SOE and LEC. That's all that Julio "Tora! Tora!! TORRES!!!" really was, nothing more than a messenger boy with a producer title.
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
In regards to the OP I wish i could have jessica alba under my desk here. I think the odds of that are the same as LA giving an apology lol.At least Smed is admitting his problem thats first step in getting help even though it took 4 years and 250k vets throwing it in his face
*Games on our site will be treated just as we treat people. Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons.
Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
Thank you,
The Staff
MMORPG.COM
You are correct, of course. LEC won't apologize. If anything they are even WORSE than SOE with respect to false pride and extreme stubborness.
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
Wake up man!
Even many of the current low budget, free to play MMO games are more fun than the current SWG-NGE crap!
Is todays NGE better than the one released back in November 2005? Well of course it is, but still it doesn't necessary mean that it is a good game.
Building on top of a rotten foundation is and has always been a very bad idea. Meaning that no matter how many shiny things they put on top of the NGE, it is and will forever be a rotten and extremely boring game.
If you actually happen to like the NGE, well congratulations! You are one of very few...
I really don't need an apology, coming from LA and SOE at this point it's nothing more than marketing fluff in their pathetic attempt to win back my business.
Isn't going to happen. When I pay for a product and you deliver crap code, shoddy service, and outright lies, I have this trait called "ability to learn" that is inconvenient for you ... because in the future, I don't do business with you.
So save the apology, and I'll save my dough for people who don't lie and ship crap. It's pretty simple.
Wake up man!
Even many of the current low budget, free to play MMO games are more fun than the current SWG-NGE crap!
Is todays NGE better than the one released back in November 2005? Well of course it is, but still it doesn't necessary mean that it is a good game.
Building on top of a rotten foundation is and has always been a very bad idea. Meaning that no matter how many shiny things they put on top of the NGE, it is and will forever be a rotten and extremely boring game.
If you actually happen to like the NGE, well congratulations! You are one of very few...
Exactly right. Which is why they are doomed. They've spent the last 2 years building stuff, some decent (the battlefields) some not (the crappy crafting non revamp) on top of a foundation no one wants.
Had they rolled back the game in early `06, THEN worked with the community to improve the pre-NGE game, they'd be in a LOT better position today than they are. This point is so obvious that there really isn't any argument against it at this point.
The problem is that instead of this, SOE chose to waste their efforts (and their dwindling customers time) trying to prove that they could turn a turd into gold with enough polishing.
As for LEC, they stand to lose the most out of this. SOE still has customers that play other MMOs of theirs who never played SWG. So there is still a base for them to work with. LucasArts has only one thing to sell: Star Wars, and only one group of people: Star Wars fans. Their role in the CUNGE fiasco has alienated from them a sizeable percentage of Star Wars game consumers...
Of course it doesn't help that they've not released a good game since KOTOR2 in 2004.
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
Wake up man!
Even many of the current low budget, free to play MMO games are more fun than the current SWG-NGE crap!
Is todays NGE better than the one released back in November 2005? Well of course it is, but still it doesn't necessary mean that it is a good game.
Building on top of a rotten foundation is and has always been a very bad idea. Meaning that no matter how many shiny things they put on top of the NGE, it is and will forever be a rotten and extremely boring game.
If you actually happen to like the NGE, well congratulations! You are one of very few...
Exactly right. Which is why they are doomed. They've spent the last 2 years building stuff, some decent (the battlefields) some not (the crappy crafting non revamp) on top of a foundation no one wants.
Had they rolled back the game in early `06, THEN worked with the community to improve the pre-NGE game, they'd be in a LOT better position today than they are. This point is so obvious that there really isn't any argument against it at this point.
The problem is that instead of this, SOE chose to waste their efforts (and their dwindling customers time) trying to prove that they could turn a turd into gold with enough polishing.
As for LEC, they stand to lose the most out of this. SOE still has customers that play other MMOs of theirs who never played SWG. So there is still a base for them to work with. LucasArts has only one thing to sell: Star Wars, and only one group of people: Star Wars fans. Their role in the CUNGE fiasco has alienated from them a sizeable percentage of Star Wars game consumers...
Of course it doesn't help that they've not released a good game since KOTOR2 in 2004.
And as long as Jim Ward is at the helm of LEC. They wont release another good game for years to come. And Julio Torres beeing producer of their new game: The force unleashed wont help either. I have a bad feeling about any potential sequel for SWG. They will prolly screw up that one too. Why? becouse they lack vision, leadership and balls.
Hauken Stormchaser
I want pre-CU back
Station.com : We got your game
Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
Jim Ward and John Smedley are twins separated at birth.
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Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
...are you kidding? we're still waiting for an apology for Jar Jar!
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
ROFL... That was the biggest let down for ep3 I was really hoping to see Vader do a death choke on him or anyone kill him. Thats the only thing SWG got right in that aspect going out and killing endless gungans was fun not $15 a month fun though lol
*Games on our site will be treated just as we treat people. Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons.
Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
Thank you,
The Staff
MMORPG.COM
All while Smed posts on the SWG forums (convienently deleted btw) that "The CU is here to stay". This was 4 months before the NGE.
Think they came up with the idea for the NGE and coded it (as pathetic as it was) in less than 4 months?
I don't think so either.
Smed is a liar. He is not genuinely sorry for anything because he did what he did willfully. And oh, btw, he still won't give us our game back, which is the ONLY proper thing to do if he really WERE sorry, which he isn't.
The only thing John Smedley is sorry about is that he didn't get away with it.
And oh, he didn't... Soon SWG will be dead. Along with the rest of SOE. They are truly a dead company walking. SOE has negative value as a brand. They are like Firestone right after the defective SUV tire fiasco.
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
All while Smed posts on the SWG forums (convienently deleted btw) that "The CU is here to stay". This was 4 months before the NGE.
Think they came up with the idea for the NGE and coded it (as pathetic as it was) in less than 4 months?
I don't think so either.
Smed is a liar. He is not genuinely sorry for anything because he did what he did willfully. And oh, btw, he still won't give us our game back, which is the ONLY proper thing to do if he really WERE sorry, which he isn't.
The only thing John Smedley is sorry about is that he didn't get away with it.
And oh, he didn't... Soon SWG will be dead. Along with the rest of SOE. They are truly a dead company walking. SOE has negative value as a brand. They are like Firestone right after the defective SUV tire fiasco.
QFE (in red)
The only reason Smed "apologized" was because the taint of the NGE just wont wash off, and follows SOE around like a rank fart, stinking up whatever projects they lay their money grubbin' hands on.
I cant even count how many "if SOE's involved, I wont touch it..." type posts Ive seen on various gaming forums. Word of mouth is taking SOE apart piece by piece, and the bs that SOE likes to put forth about it being nothing more than a "vocal minority" is just propaganda, plain and simple.
What they did with SWG wasnt just a "mistake in timing and communication" as SOE likes to say, it was a conscious decision to sacrifice their current playerbase for a slice of the WoW pie they envy so much. But instead all they got was a half baked twinkie filled with poo, mmmm, taste the love. All I can say to SOE is "you reap what you sow."
As for an apology from LA, Im not expecting one, nor do I require one from them (though something along the lines of "we regret giving SOE the SW ip" would suit me just fine, lol). It was SOE who came up with the ideas, it was SOE who dev'd it, and it was SOE that pushed it all forward with glee. All LA did was basically say "this is the SW ip, which has millions of fans worldwide, we should be doing better, fix it." Was LA wrong for approving the changes, hell yes they were, but not as wrong as the people that developed and pushed those ideas forward to LA in the first place, and thatd be SOE.
"Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now.
We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"
Was lurking saw someone say Kotor II was a bad game. I disagree completely. Loved that game, still love it. Love bringing people to the dark side.
Now for the subject at hand. For this i'll play Joe Sucker the consumer, who doesn't visit forums, Works 40+ hours a week in a hot sweaty shop with raging aholes everywhere you look.
Joe walks into Gamespot/EBgames whatever and sees a game based on his favorite movies Starwars. He picks it up, it describes the game, and how its on-line only etc, he buys it takes it home loads it and plays it.
From this perspective do you think Joe Sucker thinks its a bad game? Bad Company? that they need to apologize? I don't think so. He most likely will find a few hours of release from an already chaotic life and maybe find momentary happiness in a progressive on-line world. And he's happy that they made it.
As long as they don't make similar mistakes in the future the game will be successful and maybe the changes they made that upset so many people will cater more to the Working Man Joe Sucker.
Perspective is everything, Relativity is everywhere, Don't limit your mind if your young, and if your old its to late you'll always be an ahole.
Kazer
"Baning Smokers from public places is like baning people from water who like to pee."
A new player unaware of the NGE fiasco and SOE's evil reputation who picked up the game and played it would still experience a broken and confusing UI, bud-ugly particle effects, mobs that shoot at them through walls and hills, and nothing that resembles Star Wars any more than Diablo with lightsabers would.
The NGE failed not just because of our outrage, it also failed on it's merits. It didn't have any. Had it been any good our outrage wouldn't have been as effective, since ANY outside observer would come to the conclusion that our game pre NGE was better.
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Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
Maybe Joe Sucker wants more out of his gaming experience. Something that can be cerebral, social, and relaxing all at the same time. I believe that there are a great number of people like that out there. People who are craving a deep and immersive world where no one is holding your hand and guiding you through generic levels to reach an end-game of what?
I simply want a game where the community comes first, not me as a generic character. I want a dynamic and ever-evolving online society with real choices and consequences, set in an imaginative and unique environment which allows one to be creative.
Maybe Joe Sucker does too.
May I say - QFE
This is me. I'm not a power gamer. I don't have 10, 20, 40 hours a week to spend on a game and if I did, I wouldn't. I want something that doesn't revolve around combat and require research into the minutia of the game sytem to find that optimal combination of attacks, armor, PU, what have you. I want a game where I can slip into a different skin and for a few hours live a different life with others of similiar mindset.
Yes, community must come first. Which is why, for me, this is a non-negotiable issue when it comes to returning to SWG. There must be sufficient community or I don't give a rat's hindend what "improvements" have been done. I don't hate SOE for what they have done to SWG but I am skeptical and wary of them. Ultimately, I don't care about apologies or classic servers or any of that nonsense. Show me the community or my $15 bucks stays where it is. In the wife's purse.
The thing about KOTOR II is that is really is a good game...that could have been even better. It's just that it's obviously unfinished...because LA wanted it in the stores by a specific date, and would not take "but it's not ready!" for an answer from Obsidian.
I mean, look at SWG? Rushed out the door when it still needed six months work, then we see things like the CU, RotW, ToOW, and the NGE rushed out to publishing so that they meet the marketing needs of the greater Lucas Empire pushing Ep III, as if it wasn't already the most hyped bit of celluloid to hit the streets at the time it came out...what with happy meal tie ins and displays in WalMart and everything else that was done. Sith happens!
When you let marketing rule everything, you wind up selling shit in a box. People will eventually figure this out, but in the meantime, rule of aquisition #1 is fully in effect.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Ever think they were pushed out unfinished due to the lazy incompitance of the teams developing it? I'm not one to be an LA apologetist, but there's plenty of blame to be placed on those actually coding the games.
Or as $OE, Sigil and Perpetual taught us.. those running the companies developing the games.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I can't blame the developers for the premature release of any game when you know the management consists of Ferengi beancounting scum who cannot wait a nanosecond for their ROI.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
I learned LONG ago to ignore as incompetent anyone who tries to sell me something based on "ROI and TCO" and other famous marketing buzzwords.
Those who only care about the tangibles (tapping into millions of WoW players) inevitably screw up the intangibles (the loyalty of their EXISTING customers) and inevitably fail (NGE losing 200,000+ subscribers, more than 75% of the previous total).
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
Ever think they were pushed out unfinished due to the lazy incompitance of the teams developing it? I'm not one to be an LA apologetist, but there's plenty of blame to be placed on those actually coding the games.
Or as $OE, Sigil and Perpetual taught us.. those running the companies developing the games.
KotOR II wasn't released unfinished because Obsidian didn't finish it in time for release, it was released unfinished because LucasArts decided, half way through development, to cut six months off of the development time. It was a project that was supposed to have 18 months of development, but was changed to 12 months, 9 months into development. KotOR II's development was much different than SWG's, which was given an extra six months, yet wasn't finished by then. Hell, the NGE was released on time, and almost two years later it is still an unfinished piece of crap.
Ever think they were pushed out unfinished due to the lazy incompitance of the teams developing it? I'm not one to be an LA apologetist, but there's plenty of blame to be placed on those actually coding the games.
Or as $OE, Sigil and Perpetual taught us.. those running the companies developing the games.
KotOR II wasn't released unfinished because Obsidian didn't finish it in time for release, it was released unfinished because LucasArts decided, half way through development, to cut six months off of the development time. It was a project that was supposed to have 18 months of development, but was changed to 12 months, 9 months into development. KotOR II's development was much different than SWG's, which was given an extra six months, yet wasn't finished by then. Hell, the NGE was released on time, and almost two years later it is still an unfinished piece of crap.
From what i read, Obsidian had used all the 18 months worth of money up in the year. LA cut the time due to major cost overruns.
I'm not saying LA was 100% blameless, but Obsidian was hardly innocent. Far from it.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0