Glad to see HGL added. Its alot more fun than anything I have seen come down the pipe in a long while and its still only in BETA. This game can only get better and if you have not played it, you cant really understand it. It is a mmo and a very good one thus far imho
Sure, they want to make money and i have no problem with that. BUT when they clain that is is a site for Massive Multiplayer Online games then that it what is should be. Hey, if they just want to thow in games that will generate traffic why not add Counter-strike, Unreal Tournament or quake or something, they are online, they are multiplayer, they would generate lots of trafik, sure they lack that little area where everyone meets up on, but aparently the MASSIVE part isn´t that big of a deal for them.
They are not RPG''s..
Thus the RPG in MMORPG...still not a good argument...
Hellgate:London still fits the criteria..
Cheers!
The rpg element is somewhat lost in many MMOs today some are even calling themselfs MMOFPS.
The thing is just becouse the are online does not make them MMOs and just besouce they are not MMOs does NOT make them anyless of a game. Noone would dream of calling Battlefield 2142 for a RTS just becouse it´s Realtime and has an element of strategy. Hellgate and Guildwars lacks the massivenes for an MMO, they are NOT any less of a game. When you are on your mission/quest you will not encounter any other player then those in your group EVER. Housing, guilds, updates , online-part does not make them a MMO, they are multiplayer online games just not MASSIVE multiplayer online games.
*watches the already gray lines between Online Gaming and MMO Gaming become even more transparent* The world evolves every day, with or without your consent. You can either evolve with it, or be left behind.
Your post nicely summed up exactly what I intended to say, so I'll just add my own personal quote:
Evolution is a good thing even when there are those that fight against it. Evolution is a good thing ESPECIALLY when there are those that fight against it.
You guys are truly genius, and I commend you both for forward thinking, and those intelligible thoughta placed into words..
Evolution FTW!
There is no gray line between online gaming and MMOs, they are gray lines between diffrent gametypes; MMO, FPS, RTS and so on.
hey dont have their definition based on what is hotter, cooler on better just and what they are. Online of offline is of little relevance for what type of game they are (yeah, yeah! i know, an offline MMO, but you get my meaning). Online multiplayer games are not dependent on anyone speciffic type of game but online support does not define the hole of the game.
When you are on your mission/quest you will not encounter any other player then those in your group EVER. Housing, guilds, updates , online-part does not make them a MMO, they are multiplayer online games just not MASSIVE multiplayer online games.
Yet...how many people do you think you will meet while playing SWG or DDO...yet they call them an MMO...
Are these Massive? Not by any stretch of the imagination....
Also who said Massive = Must see other people in the world to be called Massive...
You can play LOTRO, and enter an Instance, and ALL you will see are those in your group, yet they call it massive...
Just because all the thousands of people you see are in a city instead of out in the world does not make it any less Massive...
What is the definition of Massive...means huge or large...and Hellgate will be huge when it comes out....
How big a part of the world in Hellgate will you run into other player?
10%?
5%?
How big a part of the world in SWG and most other MMO will you run into other player?
80%?
90%?
I agree that DDO is abit iffy since they chose to make everything instanced outside the city i.e the quests, but then again; how big a part of the world in DDO will you run into other player?
If you simply go by how many people that can be in a FEW special areas, we are probably going to call most of the online games that comes out in a few years for MMO no matter what they realy are. If all it takes is a ingame grafic area that you can hook up with other players before you enter the real game then MMO has lost all it´s meaning.
Well the MMORPG genre is changing and getting more diversified... HGL is as much a MMORPG as GW is, and I dare say much much more than Fury for example (multiplayer beat-em-up with RPG elements to be precise).
Instancing kinda changed the whole MMO field - we could say that even EVE is not a true MMORPG in UO sense - if you look very closely it is composed of a series of interconnected instances (closed off zones if you will) called "Star Systems" - you could say it is a bunch of GW-style hubs with combat enabled in them and nothing in between...
And stop the bickering please - If it's about perisistant character growth and it's played online where you can interact with massive number of people* then it is a MMORPG... the rest are details. (And yes, a few of todays' online FPSs could well be considered MMORPGs, no one will get killed if they get included as well...)
As for this site, they might narrow their scope a bit if they don't want to start covering most upcoming games... Imho they're in position a magazine called "3D Games" might have been in 1993 say... What used to be a niche genre is now exploding into mainstream.
* "massive number of people" - for example you could say GW is more "massive" than WoW... In GW your character can group with any other character in the game while WoW characters are restricted to their servers.. this is a complex matter, folks
/ps
(hate reposting my own replies, but it seems the main discussion on this topic is here... so that was me 2 cents.. again - promise won't do it anymore )
Single-player game with multiplayer option. I guess since it is an RPG with dedicated multiplayer servers and tons of playability it must be an MMORPG, right? The game has a lot of promise, as it has become clear that former Blizzard employees and developers of Diablo1 & 2 are developing it. If a post-apocalyptic game coded by MMORPG visionaries is your can of Red Bull, then you'll feel right at home.
Don't fix what doesn't need fixing. The community formed of Blizzard groupies is notoriously bad. They move like a plague of locusts from one game to the next, gradually sucking the games dry of anything resembling fun. In any case, we'll all know how "visionary" Flagship is by the end of the month.
Happy trails.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I'm sure you're aware that "massively" is an adverb modifying "multiplayer". Your semantic wrangling doesn't won't make this game an MMO any more than it did for guild wars. Guild wars is said to be listed on this site because it is a game that shares common features, and a common audience with the actual MMOs listed here. All you can say about hellgate is that it's a multiplayer PC game... I guess it is really time to add battlefield 2142 to this site, since it is as much an MMO as Hellgate London.
Is Hellgate Massive? = YES Is Hellgate Multiplayer? = YES Is Hellgate Online? = YES Is Hellgate an RPG = uh...YES! Get a life, read a book, learn, go to school... Cheers!
I'm sure you're aware that "massively" is an adverb modifying "multiplayer". Your semantic wrangling doesn't won't make this game an MMO any more than it did for guild wars. Guild wars is said to be listed on this site because it is a game that shares common features, and a common audience with the actual MMOs listed here. All you can say about hellgate is that it's a multiplayer PC game... I guess it is really time to add battlefield 2142 to this site, since it is as much an MMO as Hellgate London.
Do you have an ass? = YES
Can you wear a hat ? = YES
I rest my case :P
Battlefiled 2142....
Crafting = NO
Guilds = NO
RPG = NO
Is there a central location where players can congregate, chat,? And then how many actual players can be in one location?
Still not Massive...
Really...what do YOU think the word Massive is used for? According to your definition..Halo 3 is Massively Multiplayer...but it is not...and neither is Battlefield, UT, etc..a "Massive" amount of people cannot meet in one place....no matter what you do...
Hellgate still fits the definition of an MMORPG...sorry...
And of course the end of your post shows the true IQ qualifier for your post...so thank you for sharing that
Cheers!
(EDIT: I should add...one definition of "Massively Multiplayer" on Wikipedia states it must have a "Persistant" world...and we need to define "Persistant"...so again according to Wiki it states
The world is (mostly) always available and world events happen continually.
So...we could rip that apart also...but, really it boils down to the fact that a players data is saved within this "persistance" so when that player returns, all his items, data still exists...usually off site...GW fits this bill, and so does Hellgate...Diablo does not, Halo does not, Battlefield does not...as it is saved locally)
wait wait wait. this is a single player game with multiplayer option. same as diablo was same as neverwinter nights was. there is no MM from massive multiplayer anywyay here. its a single player first, and as multiplayer you wont get to raid and hang in towns with thousands of people in the same server /instance whatever. just because they might be crazy enough to charge a montly fee for using the multiplayer option on their server doesnt mean its a MMO. also if that montly fee is more then 5$ i dont see people bothering.
I agree with you dont see how this is any more of an MMO then D2 was. Really dont see how this fits an MMO, even Guild wars is more of an MMO and that barely fits an MMO.
Ummm does it really matter??? No I mean really does it matter that much to you weither Hellgate is listed as a MMO or not? You all sound like you have your panties in a knot because someone did or did not rate Hellagte as a MMO when you do or do not agree. I mean really isn't there just maybe something alittle more important in your life then raising a fit over this? (Like um uh playing a game even.)
this game is like guild wars,...you share the main quest areas, and you go into the dungeons and quests as instances,..its really fun,...that much has already bean said so i dont think i am breaking any rules,..other than that info i can not share nay more info,..
as the curent mmo games have moved more towards zones that are partly or entirely instanced, ..and with games that instance more than one version of giant areas, you really have to ask yourself, is it massive? is it multilplayer? is it online? then that fills the criteria of being an mmo hehe
oh i forgot to mention,...we have been asking about hte gmae for some time,i think the fat that it was mentioned again made more people go look at the game to see what it was all about,...its simple reasoning really
wait wait wait. this is a single player game with multiplayer option. same as diablo was same as neverwinter nights was. there is no MM from massive multiplayer anywyay here. its a single player first, and as multiplayer you wont get to raid and hang in towns with thousands of people in the same server /instance whatever. just because they might be crazy enough to charge a montly fee for using the multiplayer option on their server doesnt mean its a MMO. also if that montly fee is more then 5$ i dont see people bothering.
I agree with you dont see how this is any more of an MMO then D2 was. Really dont see how this fits an MMO, even Guild wars is more of an MMO and that barely fits an MMO.
Hmmm...now if I was to look at this image.,..what would you call all of these people milling about?
Note all the names in blue...these would be "Real Players"...
Well..looks like an MMO city to me...
As to the raid comment
Quote :
"For players with subscription accounts, Flagship Studios will deliver exciting new ongoing content including new character classes, areas, monsters, items and raid content, new game modes (including Hardcore, Role-Play and PvP mode), and additional character and stash slots."
But, hey...what does Bill Roeper, the lead Dev think?
QUOTE:
"Think that just as Diablo and Diablo II started this religious argument over whether they're RPGs or not," he mused, "Hellgate will spark that same debate over whether it's an MMO or not." But what does Bill Roper think? "It's really an MMO," he said confidently."
Wow just beacuase they have a place to hangout and buy stuff like Guildwars doesnt make it an MMO. I dont consider Guild wars an MMO too. An MMO to me is a game with alot of people playing on the same server in an open world, were the majority of the world is open and you randomley run into people. Not a game were you have a hub, thats like a chatroom that was in the old hack and slash games and the whole world outside that is instanced.
Comments
Glad to see HGL added. Its alot more fun than anything I have seen come down the pipe in a long while and its still only in BETA. This game can only get better and if you have not played it, you cant really understand it. It is a mmo and a very good one thus far imho
Thus the RPG in MMORPG...still not a good argument...
Hellgate:London still fits the criteria..
Cheers!
The rpg element is somewhat lost in many MMOs today some are even calling themselfs MMOFPS.
The thing is just becouse the are online does not make them MMOs and just besouce they are not MMOs does NOT make them anyless of a game. Noone would dream of calling Battlefield 2142 for a RTS just becouse it´s Realtime and has an element of strategy. Hellgate and Guildwars lacks the massivenes for an MMO, they are NOT any less of a game. When you are on your mission/quest you will not encounter any other player then those in your group EVER. Housing, guilds, updates , online-part does not make them a MMO, they are multiplayer online games just not MASSIVE multiplayer online games.
Your post nicely summed up exactly what I intended to say, so I'll just add my own personal quote:
Evolution is a good thing even when there are those that fight against it. Evolution is a good thing ESPECIALLY when there are those that fight against it.
You guys are truly genius, and I commend you both for forward thinking, and those intelligible thoughta placed into words..Evolution FTW!
There is no gray line between online gaming and MMOs, they are gray lines between diffrent gametypes; MMO, FPS, RTS and so on.hey dont have their definition based on what is hotter, cooler on better just and what they are. Online of offline is of little relevance for what type of game they are (yeah, yeah! i know, an offline MMO, but you get my meaning). Online multiplayer games are not dependent on anyone speciffic type of game but online support does not define the hole of the game.
Yet...how many people do you think you will meet while playing SWG or DDO...yet they call them an MMO...Are these Massive? Not by any stretch of the imagination....
Also who said Massive = Must see other people in the world to be called Massive...
You can play LOTRO, and enter an Instance, and ALL you will see are those in your group, yet they call it massive...
Just because all the thousands of people you see are in a city instead of out in the world does not make it any less Massive...
What is the definition of Massive...means huge or large...and Hellgate will be huge when it comes out....
Next...................................?
How big a part of the world in Hellgate will you run into other player?
10%?
5%?
How big a part of the world in SWG and most other MMO will you run into other player?
80%?
90%?
I agree that DDO is abit iffy since they chose to make everything instanced outside the city i.e the quests, but then again; how big a part of the world in DDO will you run into other player?
If you simply go by how many people that can be in a FEW special areas, we are probably going to call most of the online games that comes out in a few years for MMO no matter what they realy are. If all it takes is a ingame grafic area that you can hook up with other players before you enter the real game then MMO has lost all it´s meaning.
Well the MMORPG genre is changing and getting more diversified... HGL is as much a MMORPG as GW is, and I dare say much much more than Fury for example (multiplayer beat-em-up with RPG elements to be precise).
Instancing kinda changed the whole MMO field - we could say that even EVE is not a true MMORPG in UO sense - if you look very closely it is composed of a series of interconnected instances (closed off zones if you will) called "Star Systems" - you could say it is a bunch of GW-style hubs with combat enabled in them and nothing in between...
And stop the bickering please - If it's about perisistant character growth and it's played online where you can interact with massive number of people* then it is a MMORPG... the rest are details. (And yes, a few of todays' online FPSs could well be considered MMORPGs, no one will get killed if they get included as well...)
As for this site, they might narrow their scope a bit if they don't want to start covering most upcoming games... Imho they're in position a magazine called "3D Games" might have been in 1993 say... What used to be a niche genre is now exploding into mainstream.
* "massive number of people" - for example you could say GW is more "massive" than WoW... In GW your character can group with any other character in the game while WoW characters are restricted to their servers.. this is a complex matter, folks
/ps
(hate reposting my own replies, but it seems the main discussion on this topic is here... so that was me 2 cents.. again - promise won't do it anymore
)
Fixed.
Don't fix what doesn't need fixing. The community formed of Blizzard groupies is notoriously bad. They move like a plague of locusts from one game to the next, gradually sucking the games dry of anything resembling fun. In any case, we'll all know how "visionary" Flagship is by the end of the month.
Happy trails.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Definition : MMO...Massively Multiplayer Online...Is Hellgate Massive? = YES
Is Hellgate Multiplayer? = YES
Is Hellgate Online? = YES
Is Hellgate an RPG = uh...YES!
Get a life, read a book, learn, go to school...
Cheers!
I'm sure you're aware that "massively" is an adverb modifying "multiplayer". Your semantic wrangling doesn't won't make this game an MMO any more than it did for guild wars. Guild wars is said to be listed on this site because it is a game that shares common features, and a common audience with the actual MMOs listed here. All you can say about hellgate is that it's a multiplayer PC game... I guess it is really time to add battlefield 2142 to this site, since it is as much an MMO as Hellgate London.
Do you have an ass? = YES
Can you wear a hat ? = YES
I rest my case :P
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
I'm sure you're aware that "massively" is an adverb modifying "multiplayer". Your semantic wrangling doesn't won't make this game an MMO any more than it did for guild wars. Guild wars is said to be listed on this site because it is a game that shares common features, and a common audience with the actual MMOs listed here. All you can say about hellgate is that it's a multiplayer PC game... I guess it is really time to add battlefield 2142 to this site, since it is as much an MMO as Hellgate London.
Do you have an ass? = YES
Can you wear a hat ? = YES
I rest my case :P
Battlefiled 2142....
Crafting = NO
Guilds = NO
RPG = NO
Is there a central location where players can congregate, chat,? And then how many actual players can be in one location?
Still not Massive...
Really...what do YOU think the word Massive is used for? According to your definition..Halo 3 is Massively Multiplayer...but it is not...and neither is Battlefield, UT, etc..a "Massive" amount of people cannot meet in one place....no matter what you do...
Hellgate still fits the definition of an MMORPG...sorry...
And of course the end of your post shows the true IQ qualifier for your post...so thank you for sharing that
Cheers!
(EDIT: I should add...one definition of "Massively Multiplayer" on Wikipedia states it must have a "Persistant" world...and we need to define "Persistant"...so again according to Wiki it states
The world is (mostly) always available and world events happen continually.
So...we could rip that apart also...but, really it boils down to the fact that a players data is saved within this "persistance" so when that player returns, all his items, data still exists...usually off site...GW fits this bill, and so does Hellgate...Diablo does not, Halo does not, Battlefield does not...as it is saved locally)
wait wait wait.
this is a single player game with multiplayer option.
same as diablo was same as neverwinter nights was.
there is no MM from massive multiplayer anywyay here.
its a single player first, and as multiplayer you wont get to raid and hang in towns with thousands of people in the same server /instance whatever.
just because they might be crazy enough to charge a montly fee for using the multiplayer option on their server doesnt mean its a MMO.
also if that montly fee is more then 5$ i dont see people bothering.
I agree with you dont see how this is any more of an MMO then D2 was. Really dont see how this fits an MMO, even Guild wars is more of an MMO and that barely fits an MMO.
Ummm does it really matter??? No I mean really does it matter that much to you weither Hellgate is listed as a MMO or not? You all sound like you have your panties in a knot because someone did or did not rate Hellagte as a MMO when you do or do not agree. I mean really isn't there just maybe something alittle more important in your life then raising a fit over this? (Like um uh playing a game even.)
this game is like guild wars,...you share the main quest areas, and you go into the dungeons and quests as instances,..its really fun,...that much has already bean said so i dont think i am breaking any rules,..other than that info i can not share nay more info,..
Like GW, HGL doesn't have massively populated zones, apart from the hubs, but otherwise qualifies for the genre.
as the curent mmo games have moved more towards zones that are partly or entirely instanced, ..and with games that instance more than one version of giant areas, you really have to ask yourself, is it massive? is it multilplayer? is it online? then that fills the criteria of being an mmo hehe
oh i forgot to mention,...we have been asking about hte gmae for some time,i think the fat that it was mentioned again made more people go look at the game to see what it was all about,...its simple reasoning really
Thanks for listing
--------------------
SWG - Killed by $OE
WOW - Retired
Playing WAR
As for the game, the developers tried to fix something that wasn't broken. The attribute point system. Ruined the game for me.
I agree with you dont see how this is any more of an MMO then D2 was. Really dont see how this fits an MMO, even Guild wars is more of an MMO and that barely fits an MMO.
Hmmm...now if I was to look at this image.,..what would you call all of these people milling about?
Gamespot example of Online "Massive" meeting location.
Note all the names in blue...these would be "Real Players"...
Well..looks like an MMO city to me...
As to the raid comment
Quote :
"For players with subscription accounts, Flagship Studios will deliver exciting new ongoing content including new character classes, areas, monsters, items and raid content, new game modes (including Hardcore, Role-Play and PvP mode), and additional character and stash slots."
CVG
Still smell an MMO...
But, hey...what does Bill Roeper, the lead Dev think?
QUOTE:
"Think that just as Diablo and Diablo II started this religious argument over whether they're RPGs or not," he mused, "Hellgate will spark that same debate over whether it's an MMO or not." But what does Bill Roper think? "It's really an MMO," he said confidently."
ActionTrip
Still feel an "MMO kinda vibe here..."
Well, well...anyone else?
GW did it...and now Hellgate follows in it's footsteps...and I believe it will do just as well if not better!
Cheers!
Wow just beacuase they have a place to hangout and buy stuff like Guildwars doesnt make it an MMO. I dont consider Guild wars an MMO too. An MMO to me is a game with alot of people playing on the same server in an open world, were the majority of the world is open and you randomley run into people. Not a game were you have a hub, thats like a chatroom that was in the old hack and slash games and the whole world outside that is instanced.
MMORPG = Mostly Men Online Role Playing Girls
Is Hellgate Massive? = YES
Is Hellgate Multiplayer? = YES
Is Hellgate Online? = YES
Is Hellgate an RPG = uh...YES!
Get a life, read a book, learn, go to school...
Cheers!
sure will do this with my 39 years!
i'm the casual player type, and still think this game don't belong here.
otherwise we need bf, and all other games with a chat feature, online mode and a little rp listed here.
go out and find a girl, you are THE MAN!
edit:
the difference between you and me is, that i can accept other opinions and you not! think about it.
have a nice life -> ignore
Nice game.
SOL, online mmorpg