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General: Forum Spotlight: The Solo Content Debate
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
This week, Community Manager Laura Genender trawls the forums and comes out with a thread that focuses on solo play in MMORPGs.
MMORPG.com member, Perilous1 brought up a hot topic from the MMO frontlines: Why do MMOs force us to group? From EverQuest to Lineage II, DAoC to LOTRO: rewards in MMOs, be it PvP or PvE, often scale their difficulty by numbers of users. You can solo to farm tradeskill items, group for EXP, and raid for gear. Trying to solo your way through many of today’s games is pointless – despite us being the heroes, most monsters can take 6 of us on and still sometimes win.
“This may seem like a small matter to most players,” states Perilous1, “but for those of us whose enjoyment of playing is tightly wrapped up in solo'ing, it's a real downer when you start to get into a new MMO and then have it rendered worthless to you because the Dev's rolled out another cookie-cutter design that could easily have been fixed and made far more flexible.”
Many users agree with Perilous, and it’s not always the solo-crazy. User Vendayn enjoys soloing, but not exclusively. “If a mmorpg has forced grouping, I'll probably quit pretty fast. Not to say I don't like grouping cause I do...just not being forced to group all the time to get anything done.” User Tabby_Cat sings a similar tune: “While [I] prefer to play in groups [I] do not like to be forced into it. [T]here are times where I just want to solo.”
Read the whole thing here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Your link leads to the MMORPG homepage - not the article [has it been published yet?]
Working now
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"What class are you playing?" Should never be asked because there should be no classes, only skill sets!
Balancing for solo vs group vs raid may well be the easiest way to ruin a game - developers need to create their game and focus it for one style [or solo vs group, anyway - a raid is just a group that's too big]. The current trend of : Solo to level x, then group to level y, then raid, doesn't seem to be working all that well. Soloers quit by level x + 2, groupers complain that it's too easy and quit before level y [or complain that one can solo until level y making grouping unnecessary]. Raiders - I dunno, what do raiders complain about? Lack of content?
DDO by another name might have worked if launched in its current state, that is, with areas scaled for solo vs group play [and a decent amount of both].
The "Instanced vs Open World", "PvP vs PvE", and "Casual vs Hardcore" styles conflicts also cause so many problems because developers keep trying to be all to every style. If they would [if financially they could?] make their game with "one from column A & one from column B", they would be successful in their niche. The loyal players would stay loyal and those who don't like their type of game wouldn't subscribe.
Personally, I'd prefer: solo vs group choice like DDO; Instanced, PvE, casual
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I think games should have solo and group content. Sometimes players want to solo and sometimes they want to group.
That's the main flaw of LOTRO I leveled a character to 50 in 3 weeks with only 3 to 4 hours gameplay and most of quests I did in solo.I guess for a more skillful player "not a power gamer" it can be done in 2 weeks.
I can understand that sometimes people want to log and basta but most of the games coming post WoW are WoW wannabe in easy mode, what I can`t understand is why people pay a sub for an MMO and want to play it like a single player
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
They have community like aspects, but can be played Solo or Grouped...and the content scales accordingly..
Guild Wars also had the great aspect that you could solo an area for a long time, but eventually you had to group to move on...this is great...and of course, throw on the henchmen if you not a social type...and you have a real winner...
DDO I have heard is also fixing this...and I may just have to go back and check that out...fun times
Cheers!
If you "finish" LOTRO within a free trial period, obviously you won, and you never have to pay for it. What's not to like? (although, personally, as a LOTRO player, I wonder how you even did the travel required to get to, say, level 20 in 3-4 hours of gameplay -- I truly suspect you are exaggerating).
Regardless, one of the reasons I like games with good crafting systems is that it gives me something to do when I want to play and be casually social, or anti-social (craft channels seem to have a lot less Chuck Norris contingent).
I mean, what do you do when you're lfg and waiting, and waiting, and waiting?
You can solo, or craft, or sit there like a bleeding idiot waiting for someone to notice.
You can join a big impersonal guild that's focused on end-game material and have plenty of folks to group with -- but for those of us with a demanding real life, raiding schedules are out of the question.
I truly believe that game companies should start setting up servers, not just as "RP preferred" and PVP vs PVE, but as "End-game rusher preferred" and "Soloers welcome" and "Mature folks with real lives for freeform grouping."
Well, maybe not. But let's face it, as the gaming community ages and broadens, the market starts to include a lot of us folks who can't be on three nights a week from 7pm to midnight to do raids.
There has to be some way to make money from the casual gamer who can't commit to more than an hour or so in a day, and grouping can often take that long just to find a group for some particular quest.
Shava
This is always a major issue when I'm trying to pick an MMORPG. When I first started playing LOTRO. One of the things I enjoyed was being able to enjoy that flavor text, to read what is actually going on in a quest. It looks like Turbine took a wrong turn somewhere because before I went on hiatus I found myself unable to enjoy these things because I was so focused on finding a group. The group usually wanted to rush through, so I was unable to read everything that was going on. I started to care less about the world, and thus, logged in less. My girlfriend still plays and she says she doesn't see what I'm talking about. She's in the levels where you can still enjoy reading flavor text, and I don't want to ruin it for her by having her count down to when she can no longer do so. I've actually found myself back at WoW due to actually being able to enjoy everything now. I'm not against grouping, simply for getting the exposition to actually care about the world I'm fighting to defend. I remember enjoying Guild Wars because there were multiple ways to actually get to the development of the world. You could solo (via henchmen) or even if you wanted to group, you could still enjoy the cutscenes. I think those options provided me with what I wanted more than most of the MMOs have, and I've grouped more in that game than any other I've played.
I've been playing MMORPG's ever since the first Everquest, which was a "group, or die" MMORPG, as I call it. Obviously, many companies found this gameplay design flaw, and exploited it, causing people to flock to something more forgiving and reasonable to their playstyle. But, even modern MMORPGs suffer from penalizing the player if they are unable to find people to group, even if they can solo the entire game, as in WoW. I played WoW from levels 1-70, mostly solo, really only grouping up for kill count quests when the area was crowded, quests where you would kill a named mob for an item, and many of these would be to get a nice reward that I wanted.
The problem is, people become so selfish, and into what they are doing, it is difficult to find someone to help you get a quest done. I know, many of you will say, "That's what guilds are for." But, even players in guilds will be tied up doing something, most likely, and won't be immediately available at your beckoning call; which is why I suggest scrapping the whole "Group up to get awesome rewards" gameplay mechanic. Why can't we just go out and get them ourselves? Do we really need to kill the biggest, toughest giant beetle we can find to get an adequate carapace to use for a shield?
Why not go around and gather some other ingredients from other creatures, and make the shield powerful with the combined elements of several creatures that could still be soloed. Let us be rewarded with the adventure and perhaps a lengthy chain of quests that we can still do on our own. Now I know, you're wondering, "Won't that make grouping obsolete?" No. You just have to fit the purpose of grouping somewhere else. Perhaps, the gameplay element would be where NPC enemies frequently attack villages, and it would be far easier to defend the village with a group, even though you could be tactful and sneaky, picking off enemies; though, there would be a risk of being swamped by an unforseen large group of them.
Perhaps, planned grouping doesn't really need to be a major issue anymore. The Public Quests gameplay mechanism of Warhammer Online has potential; if used in another game to the fullest potential, by simply replacing the idea of inviting players to a group; we can still talk to eachother in a local chat channel, anyhow. Why do we have to break the ice with people and invite them? I say it's better to break some skulls along-side them and make new friends that way.
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Guild Wars solves this problem birlliantly with the sistem of heroes and henchmen. If you want just a quick sessision you dont have to spend like 30min looking for a group but simply take npcs with you. This way you never have problem getting a group. However, you get a lot more from playing if grouping than soloing, and at some points and missions it is allmost neccessery to play with players. Although it is not impossible to do it with heroes and henchmen.
For the end, id say mmos would bloody need such sistem, but the fact is, that playing with players is what makes a game a MMO.
I'd like to answer the question "why play an MMORPG if you like to play solo?"
The answer is simple: dynamic environments. A single-player, offline game doesn't change (usually) no matter how many times you play it. You can come back to it years later and it will still be the exact same game. Online games on the other hand are usually very dynamic, some more than others. Not only do you have the game environment changing due to other players, but the game developers may also update the game content, thus making the game new almost every time you log on.
Dynamic gaming environments are what make online games so attractive to me, not playing with others. Although I certainly enjoy chatting with friends I meet online I prefer not to be forced to team up with them to complete quests and such. Going solo allows me to really explore the game environment at my own pace, which tends to be pretty slow.
There is no doubt people want to solo in mmorpgs but there is a real problem whereby people who may possibly want to group instead opt for soloing as its easier. What this results in is excessive numbers soloing and few numbers actually grouping. That is a problem that few mmorpgs have tried to really solve. Grouping should be easily attainable and available for short durations if people want that.
(incidentally less levels or no levels is an answer to this- lots of people lfg with no divide of levels=more groups)
I like playing solo or in a small group... i only really resent having to group when its hard to find a group. Hours spamming LFG for the right class is not my idea of an enjoyable gaming experience.
BUT
How hard would it be to create a dungeon and last boss content for solo players... Think about all the raids you've been in with 20 maybe 40 other players and now think about what it would have been like if only you were in there. Seriously, it would be dull.
All the mobs would have to be able to be defeated by one of each class. So basically they'd each have to have several weaknesses and attacks that didn't completely blow away a particualr class.
For example - you have a caster and you have a tank. You need to make a boss that canbe defeated by both of them. So it needs to be weak to magic, weak to physical. Also it can't do ranged attacks as thats not fair on the tank. It can't cause heavy physical damage coz that wouldn't be fair on the caster... see what i'm getting at?
They'd have to use a cookie cutter for each boss.
The only solution i see would be like what Guild Wars has - npc group members. Ofc that not an easy thing to do... They just don't react.
I'd settle for the simple solution of keeping max grop numbers quite low maybe 10 max and then if you're in a group you can do it lower and when you're a slightly higher level you can solo it... depends how quickly you want the nice loot.
When I played guild wars, I would rather have henchmen in my group that real players who quit mid instance lol..Most of the time I would just get henchmen, because this happened so much.
Back in the eq days.. sitting lfg for hours on end really sucked. Now it seems we are at the exact oppisite end of the spectrum. People dont want a group cause they would " rather solo" and the games cater to this to a large extent. If all you are going to do is solo, then the quest rewards/drops in most games are more than good enough for this.
This could be wrong but I kinda see somewhere down the line, single player games with dynamic updated content and a chat room that can be used in game. That way all the little solo'ers can do all thier solo stuff and talk smack in the chat channel =D ( chat being the only online component of the game other than the updates and new content ) Hmmm... I think I would pay a monthly sub for somthing like this actually.
My take on Solo vs. Group all comes down to problem that most MMORPGs forget who the player characters are suppose to be. Heroes. I think that bares repeating, Heroes. Heroes are suppose to be able to hack through normal enemies. But I find in most games most every enemy is as strong if not stronger than the player character. That's why you need to be in a group. That's not a hero in my book.
I"m going to compare two games that I greatly enjoy playing, Everquest 2 and City of Heroes. In EQ2 I play a Paladin, covered in plate armor and carring a large weapon. But nearly every fight is the fight of my life. I have almost the best gear that money can buy but every solo battle is a challenge. In a group things go fairly well. If I'm soloing and I see a heroic enemy near my level, that's right just "near", I give it a wide berth. If I try to attack, I'll die rather quickly. This says that the enemy is the hero not me. It says so right in it's designation. And to top it off, I find it very hard to get in a group.
Now lets look at City of Heros. First most of the enemies are minions, and they are very easy, even when your character is just starting out, unless the minions are in a big group. Lieutenants are a bit tougher, one on one you can win but it will be a good fight. Bosses at lower levels you need to bring a friend. Now most missions are instances that scale to the heroes entering it, not to mention that when the mission is complete everyone gets the reward reguardless of who's mission it is. So this game is great to solo and group. And it doesn't matter what kind of character I play I get invited into a group within ten minutes, normally.
The point is that City of Heroes treats you like your heroes and Everquest 2 doesn't. I play each game for different reasons, but it would be nice if EQ2 started treating their players like heroes and not henchmen. I have found that most MMORPGs are closer to EQ2 than CoH.
There have been several polls taken by Age of Conan devs that consistently show 90% of players want solo and group content; only 10% want group only content.
Most MMOs have solo content, but little of it is challenging and the rewards are significantly inferior. Solo players are penalized; WoW is the worst in doing so. Asheron's Call was the least like this, some of the gear that you could get solo was still usefull. I played AC for years, primarily as a solo player.
However, even Blizzard has recognized the need to cater to the solo player, and has greatly increased their solo-able content, creating more quests over all levels and especially more quests that can be done after level cap has been reached.
The consensus is this, on the AoC forums: equal quality rewards for quests whether they are done solo, group, raid, PvP, or PvE, with equal level of effort required for the same quality of gear. So if a raid player has to spend 12 hours raiding to get his/her gear, so should the solo player have to spend 12 hours worth of time to get the same quality gear.
What I don't understand is why so many of the group-only players are so hard set against solo play. These people seem to think that playing a single-player RPG is the same as playing in a MMORPG solo; it is not. They think MMOs are made for group play only, and that has never been the case. They seem to think that having solo play options in a game somehow hurts them, and it in no way does.
People who primarily solo in an MMO understand that adding raid content, for example, is a good thing, because many people enjoy that. Solo-style players are not against group-style play, and most take part in it. Though primarily a solo player, I have always joined a guild and often was one of the more active players. We understand that the more options for players there are the better it is for all of us.
I would, though, like to be PvP competitive in an MMO, so I am REQUIRED to raid to do this; the gear deficit is too great in WoW to become a top PvP player otherwise. No raid-centric player is forced to solo, and they shouldn't be, but neither should I be penalized in the game because I prefer to solo (as long as I am putting forth the same level of effort).
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
I just wanted to repeat this statement, as I couldn't agree more. I (almost) never group, unless I play with real life friends on very rare occasions. I love hanging out with guildies in a channel and having a good time while I'm off doing my own thing tho.
I think it has to do with who you are irl.I play solo as much as possible in games. Sometimes because I'm testing stuff, charting it, or just understanding it and for my own personal accomplishment. Grouping sometimes is a waste of a good amount of time that I could be wasting on my own activites. All of us have to wait for everyone to get there, travel in a pack and protect each other, wait for bio breaks/telephone calls/kids/disappearances/gear changes/skill bar and macro setups/town visits.
Another thing is the political actions of groups....on my own - I don't pvp characters that are clearly beneath me... in some groups... every nobody that we find MUST be killed...it's senseless and goes against my play style to kill the weak when I get nothing out of it. It's not a challenge and in no way fun and is sort of an ooky sensation to know I had to be involved by being grouped with these thugs whether I attacked the nobody or not. Groups can be annoying honestly. I think people that have to group are the same people in real life that have to be popular. They carry that insecurity over onto the net and have to find a group of people to like them and tell them that they are doing a good job. They need support.
You may know the ones I'm talking about, they ding in the guild chat every level and will tell you about every pvp fight in detail, they chat incessantly and don't shut up because they need the back patting. They also won't do small quests alone and always want help whether they need it or not. MMO for them means Must Meet Others :P
Bring on more solo stuff, works for me. The next time someone brags about their 1337 skillz
, I'd like to see more of them having to prove it themselves instead of with a crew, that's more impressive.
I always hated this subject from a personal standpoint, Great gear and rare items should be hard to get requiring a group at the least and a raid at best, if mmo's were not like this i dont think i would play them, i like to solo once in awhile but i dont agree on the complaints that mmo's are not solo friendly, yer dang tootin right there not solo friendly for the high end items, i wouldnt see the point of paying for a game that was suppose to be an mmo that catered to single players, this would make the game cheesy easy.
playing eq2 and two worlds
The reason you have to solo in an MMO is because you're not playing the hero, you're playing a ground level to respectable level character. I like that about MMOs, but some (Dev's and Players) can't seem to realize that an MMORPG isn't an RPG, you aren't supposed to work your way from militia to demigod, just up to someone who's really good at what they do. Some games get it right, and make it so that you can get killed by 3-10 or so city guards at max level, but some are just dumb at parts, where you can take on an entire city barracks of 20-30 guards without taking a breath. And yet, you can get killed by another player. Why even hire the guards, all they can keep out are those damn giant rats that seem to be plaguing so many games. I'm not asking for much, just a little realism, I can understand if you work your way up to a Han Solo, or Chewy level of skill, but when you can get your Darth Vader on in the little Province of Ewoks I like to call the Hilsbrad Foothills, then I start to get pissed.
Well I beat that metaphor like a kettle drum. Anyways, long story short; the reason that you have to group is because in the traditional RPG you can make yourself the big cheese, but in an MMORPG somebody has to be able to kill you, so there has to be an equal for you. Somebody thinks, "Gee fellas, last I checked 2 > 1", and kills all the ones, someone else goes, "Hmmm, 3 > 2, that aught to fix this problem". And to stop everyone from getting their zerg on with each other, most games either embrace the zerg or find a way to vent it, ala raids. Besides, they also have to keep the game fun. Not having a challenge being about as fun as a frozen leg of lamb upside the head (R. Dahl Short Story). So much for this being the short version, eh? May as well splurge now. Back to the metaphorical legs of lamb. To counter the easy factor, you have to make the game more difficult, obvious isn't it? Think again, because you have to factor in that the major strength of a MMORPG is that it has a "community". People generally having friends, throws this out of whack (or into what depending on whether you take psychotic drugs or not), because friends help each other out from time to time. Or so I'm told. So you have to step it up further, until a full party of friends can still have some challenge, a soloer can have some challenge, and some cave dwelling troglodites can have their raids. Then you have to balance rewards, you can't give out the same rewards for one person clearing out a cave of hibernating bears, and fourty trying to stick a giant fire god with a point metal stick now can you? But then again, the big fire god can't be carrying much good loot for fourty individuals, all of them greedy little bastards. So then you have to increase their value so that when they did get it, it was actually worth the time spent, depending on how you look at it. Doesn't quite seem right that the short version is longer than the long one does it? Ah well.
I would have to agree. I like to solo...sometimes. Grouping, for me is way more fun, and raiding is the best when done efficiently. There are a lot of aspects to what makes a game "fun" for people. Some want to craft, some explore, some get the best gear etc. Everything can't be easy and quick or you won't play it anymore. At least I won't. From my experience, even in a grinding game like EQ, the fun was figuring out how to solo with a "non solo" class when you wanted to. Figuring out how to kill that mob with three people when you need 5 or more. Work your way into that uber guild and give it a shot. I know time is a issue, and it is for me also. There has to be a balance of actual play time when you getting something accomplished and wasting time LFG or whatever. For me the balance is not only between all the classes, but for solo and group play, as well as, open world and instanced play. If one aspect is missing the game will suffer. I'm glad I don't have to figure it out. I hope someone will get it right for the games of the future like EQ1 did, DAoC, and WoW.
I do feel concern about some solo friendly quests in an MMO but today's trend looks like the games have too much solo quests which enable players to level fast (go talk to X aand get 2k xp)When these same players are at high levels they don`t even know how to play as a team because they don`t know the high and low of their respective class in a group.I have seen it in WoW and Lotro.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
One of the reasons I perfer solo in a MMO is my char is an extension of me. If my char dies it is a personal loss. Most groups could care less if their char dies and if your char dies. I played Diablo 2 for almost 4 years fron late 2000 to 2004 when I started playing several MMOs. I played hardcore and played in GROUPS more there than I have ever played in any of the 6 MMOs I subed to. The reason I played in groups in D2 was that we all knew the risks and we all worked together to make sure we all won the battle because death was permanent. If I happen to get online when my friends were not, I could run solo and do exactly what we did in groups.. MMOS just don't have that capability right now and I doubt they will. MMOs in general are not challenging either. They lack any real risks . To compensate the developers make mobs near impossible to kill solo and even grouped. So a char dies and what was the loss? Nothing but a few minutes of ones time to go back and try again. I personally see that as uninteresting so to compensate I must make my own challenge.
I am sure you wonder why I don't just play D2. Well to some of the non-hardcore players the game was just not challenging so the developers added mob spawn points near portals, added near impossible mobs to kill even grouped and changed the content to satisify those that could care less about if their char lived or died. The last update done to D2 just killed the hardcore aspect and the real challenge to the game.
The reason I still play a MMO perfered to such single player like Oblivion is the content changes as time progresses. I lost interest in Oblivion due to leveling be just silly when I could do the entire game at lefvel 1 (which I did by picking skills that never incremented) Secondly, Oblivion had nothing left to explore after 4 months because I had every quest complete. I re-subed to EQ2 and I had a ton of new content to play with however like I have already said EQ2 is not a challenge because there is ZERO risk.
If a game came out that offered perma death as a option like D2 and had the kind of content of todays MMOs, ............... well, I can dream I guess.
I think i read a thread about perma-death before and i will quote what that thread said...''you want perma-death in an mmo then when you die just delete yer char and roll another every time you die, its about the same thing.
playing eq2 and two worlds
I would have to agree. I like to solo...sometimes. Grouping, for me is way more fun, and raiding is the best when done efficiently. There are a lot of aspects to what makes a game "fun" for people. Some want to craft, some explore, some get the best gear etc. Everything can't be easy and quick or you won't play it anymore. At least I won't. From my experience, even in a grinding game like EQ, the fun was figuring out how to solo with a "non solo" class when you wanted to. Figuring out how to kill that mob with three people when you need 5 or more. Work your way into that uber guild and give it a shot. I know time is a issue, and it is for me also. There has to be a balance of actual play time when you getting something accomplished and wasting time LFG or whatever. For me the balance is not only between all the classes, but for solo and group play, as well as, open world and instanced play. If one aspect is missing the game will suffer. I'm glad I don't have to figure it out. I hope someone will get it right for the games of the future like EQ1 did, DAoC, and WoW.
I'll agree with some of your points Piouss and Bouonish, but you can't overlook the fact that many of us consider the mechanics of current grouping games to be broken.
Most games these days are classed based, and I've yet to see a game (certainly not DAOC or WOW) that didn't make it so that some classes were preferred, or even necessary for a good group (tanks, healers) and others were less desirable either because there were too many of them (stealthers) or they were truly underpowered (hybrids) and did not bring (as) good skills to a group that another class might.
Another issue is trying to get a group together of the right composition...who hasn't wasted an hour or more trying to find a group, or get it assembled with the right mix of the trinity (tank, healer, crowd control) Most solo supportes hate this aspect of MMO' and it is a major reason why people don't want to group. I know, I know, get a good guild.... blah blah blah... doesn't solve all the problems, and as we all know, finding a good guild is actually a matter of luck and diplomacy. Me, I tend to be a bit less needy for human interaction, so I don't always mesh well with most guilds mentalities.
Finally, you get that good group together....set out on your adventure...and something comes up in the real world (or the raid is just so long that normal humans can't stay in it that long) and folks have to leave the group/raid. Most games do not make it easy to replace players who leave....even when they have a good mechanic to summon people, they find some damn way to make it difficult like WOW did with Warlocks so that a person had to be in the instance they were in before they could be summoned. Why do something like this? Why not make it so a Warlock in BWL (sorry, I quit before TBC) could have summoned a replacement Priest from Orgrimar if necessary?
I think that for grouping to be really attractive to me (and many other solo players) is that games are going to have to find a way to make joining a group almost an automatic process...literally, I think to myself, I want to group..and within 5 minutes or less, I find a group and am busy playing. Also, they need to make it so that almost any combination of classes is viable...ie... wanna take 6 tank in on an instance...fine, still works as well as 6 priests.... in other words.... class combination doesn't matter. (or make the game skill based, solves some of the issues). Finally, make replacing people who have to leave, or go link dead or whatever an easy process...so that in effect.. the group never has to end.
One other thing they need to do in quest based games is make it so re-running a quest is viable for players...no one will help someone on a regular basis unless they get something out of it. Maybe add a "nobility system" that maybe tracks a persons alturistic activities..and rewards them somehow for this hard work in a way that is unique, and perhaps superior to other rewards in the game.
Finally, make it so grouping is rewarding..i.e... consider increasing rewards from grouping...even against trash mobs.... most games penalize groupers by sharing the loot and experience....you want grouping...reward groups in every circumstance. (assuming some of my other suggestions are also implemented of course)
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But I think if you are challenged by raid-type content and other group content, by all means you should have it and play it to your heart's content. I'm glad you have it, and I'm glad you are well-rewarded, eventually, for it.
Again, like so many others who want to trod on solo-oriented players, you confuse single-player RPGs with solo-oriented MMO play. They are not the same.
I'll ask this question again: Why are you so threatened by solo players?
How does solo content in any way hurt you? Why do you INSIST everyone play like you? Why do you INSIST on having better reward for easy content, content which is the ultimate in boring grinding, where you have to wait forever for the group to get its act together, where people fight over rewards like spoiled children, where you MUST play for 6-8 or more hours in one sitting for over a hundred times (I know people in WoW who have had to do this to get their gear) in the same dungeon again and again, where you end up with the exact same gear as everyone else in your class?
I can think of only one reason. You are so pathetic at PvP you have to have loads of people with inferior gear to yours, so you can have someone to beat.
Not one solo player I have ever read the post of has said they should get the same reward as a raid player for a 1-hour quest. What we want is equal reward for equal time and effort spent. Since the effort for most solo players is no greater in a raid than in a solo quest, the only difference is time spent. We should AT VERY LEAST have solo-able quests or quest chains that have similar low drops for top gear equal to the raid gear.
I say get rid of the grind feel for everyone, and raise or do away with drop rate percentages for quests and instances. The only reason for low drop rates is to not spend as much time and effort updating the game, for a company to try to cut down on its expensive creative process to make more money.
Asheron's Call is updated regularly with new content, and not with expansion packs every year or two that you have to buy. It is a very solo-friendly game, with obtainable gear that can be useful (if slightly inferior) to group won gear. Drop rates are non-existent in quests and dungeons, with rewards often being handed out to every player in the group who wants it. They made re-running dungeons more attractive by having multiple rewards that you could choose from, so you would want to run it again to get another piece of USEFUL gear, but did not have to 'grind' to get it.There are many group dungeons and quests (which you at least have the option of trying solo, though with NO chance of success
). While it doesn't get everything right, and there are creative elements in WoW and EQ2 that AC doesn't contain (I certainly think raid content would be nice for those who enjoy it), I think this game should be seriously studied by MMO devs; I played it for years, and it is still, after more than 5 years, a profit-making MMORPG.
In the end, I know that my comments about 'what raiding is' are my preferences; I was trying to make the point that group activity is not fundamentally more challenging than solo activity, or fundamentally better in any way. I'm not trying to speak as though I was talking for everyone. Many people enjoy raid content and don't agree with anything I said, and they are right; FOR THEMSELVES. Raid, instance, group content is a good thing in MMOs, I'm happy that it is there not just because I occasionally enjoy it but because there are many who enjoy it as their main activity.
Why deny the same respect for the solo-oriented player? Why deny equal reward for equal effort to the solo player? How does it hurt you for me to have the same gear quality as you, regardless of how I get it? I don't even care if you bought your gear and it's just as good as mine, as long as you had to spend a lot of effort getting the gold to do so (in this, I think there should be international law requiring the death penalty for all gold sellers and buyers
).
Quit speaking out against solo play in MMOs, please. Polls show 90% of the people who play MMOs want solo -able content. Solo players have nothing against group content, don't mind that it is there, don't speak out against it. What do you lose by others enjoying and being rewarded for solo play?
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall