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Almost 2 yrs later and what?
JK-Kanosi
Member Posts: 1,357
What does the Dev team really have to show for this past two years? I've gone back a few times since the NGE happened and even after this past update (Beastmaster).
In my opinion, they should have already had the Jedi issues fixed, which is the only class I really want to play. I would prefer the Pre-NGE game, but if the only Star Wars MMO I have to choose from is SWG, then I at least want to have fun playing the class I want to play.
Anyone else that have actually played this game since the NGE feel that SOE is moving WAY to slow on fixing and improving SWG?
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Comments
I'm not sure they are moving at all.
I played the recent vet trial and while the game is much better than it was right after the nge, (of course that's like saying dog shit doesn't smell as bad as cat shit )it has a long way to go. I know that many vets have had a hard time finding a replacement for SWG. There is no MMO out there that I really like to play but I would rather play checkers than the NGE. Checkers has much more depth.
I don't claim to be right, I'm just posting.
As long as they build on the NGE core, the game cannot be fixed. Every problem the game currently has, from horrible gameplay to anemic subscription numbers, is a result of the fact that the current core game is not fun. The developers are in a position where the game actually needs a complete revamp, but they are also at the point where they are unwilling to do one.
I, very briefly, tried the last vet trial. I wouldn't say SOE has been moving too slow in improving the game, I'd say they are moving backwards. The game is a complete mess.
Well they have the same issues the Cu and NGE were suppose to correct. Bugs being top of the list followed by content. Of course "content" an "bugs" translates in SoE speak as " Massive 360 gameplay changes". So if they are going back to the old elements to fix the game but yet fail to capture the original appeal what does that tell you?
To me CH was 10 times better than beast master ever could be. If the beast master thingy was so great how come the population rise fell shortly after? Well i think its cause the rest of the game is so bad. The controls and combat is still goofy.
Benny hill still has influence over the NGE be it slowed down some. Lack of animations( still after 2 years) goofy over the top saturday morn japanamation garbage effects still remain. So the polish on this turd still stinks IMO. Even i disliked the CU because it was so WowEqish. Then at the end when it was somewhat fixed it was still fun and my friends list was still full..
So simply put SoE has done nothing to "Fix" Swg its the same ole game without the parts that made us ignore how broke it has allways been. The current game however i notice all its faults and have 0 fun nore care if it ever gets "fixed". As long as it uses the Nge engine it will allways be a failure to me and many more explayers...
A list for you:
Now, what's wrong with Jedi?
2 years on and still the game carries on..shows what people know really doesnt it? given that most predicted it'd be closed down within weeks of the NGE
But none of this means shit if the core game is still horrible.
Here's a list for you:
1) Benny Hill skit-style combat
2) Specials that don't fire
3) Stats that don't work as advertised
4) Old content that worked is being re-introduced as content that doesn't work
5) Blatant stealing of concepts from other games when pre-NGE was unique (RE, Collections)
What's wrong with Jedi, you ask?
How about the poke-poke-slash-slash-no-fun-at-all combat?
Obraik, We all know the game is shit.
Please go crawl back into your hole.
But none of this means shit if the core game is still horrible.
Here's a list for you:
1) Benny Hill skit-style combat: I recently watched a fraps video I made of combat I recorded in the CU and now wonder how I coped with the slow speed. I personally prefer the faster combat speeds.
2) Specials that don't fire: Haven't had a special misfire in a long, long time (well over a year)
3) Stats that don't work as advertised: Since when? All stats work fine.
4) Old content that worked is being re-introduced as content that doesn't work: Not really. It might be inspired by older content, but it's generally rather revamped. Beast Master is a good example. It's based on the Creature Handler concept but goes well beyond what CH was with it's own systems.
5) Blatant stealing of concepts from other games when pre-NGE was unique (RE, Collections): SWG has had RE for the space part of the game since JTL was released, Chapter 5 expanded it to the ground game. Collections comes from EQ2...but if something has worked well in another of their games wouldn't it be silly to restrict it to only that game? SWG is still very unique when compared to most other MMO's
What's wrong with Jedi, you ask?
How about the poke-poke-slash-slash-no-fun-at-all combat? Meh, some people focus on animations, other focus on what they're actually trying to achieve through combat. That's right, there was a lack of content pre-cu so entertainment had to be found in some form
Obraik, We all know the game is shit.
We? By we I take it you mean those here that haven't actually played the game for over a year or logged into a vet trail for 5mins and consider themselves experts?
Please go crawl back into your hole.
But none of this means shit if the core game is still horrible.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
And most of the things listed here feel like used and recycled (but lesser versions of) things from better days. Nothing on this list makes me stop and think "wow, they really got it right this time". In fact it feels quite the opposite, mainly because of the lame combat system.
Sorry Obraik, I know you really want to sell SWG to us but it's just not working. This game at best is mediocre, and that IMO is being kind.
I havent logged in to SWG since that horrible NGE (well, i tryed a few months after).
But i still consider myself a SWG hang around. I read everything i can find and talk to the freinds that still play, and i have to say: it seems as the current dev team is working very hrd to "fix" SWG.
New content ,and old ones is fixes all the time. I couldent ask for much more....if i played.
But none of this means shit if the core game is still horrible.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
And most of the things listed here feel like used and recycled (but lesser versions of) things from better days. Nothing on this list makes me stop and think "wow, they really got it right this time". In fact it feels quite the opposite, mainly because of the lame combat system.
Sorry Obraik, I know you really want to sell SWG to us but it's just not working. This game at best is mediocre, and that IMO is being kind.
Heh, I wouldn't say I'm trying to sell SWG to you all. There are plenty of people on this side of the forum I'd be happy not to see in the game
The numbers don't lie. 70% or more of those who played Pre-CU voted with their feet and left over the CUNGE.
The game is still broken and buggy, and SOE STILL has the worst reputation in the industry.
What have the Devs accomplished in the last two years? Not a damn thing, because what they needed to do was revert back to the Pre-NGE game then work on getting what of the NGE that might work and make sense (such as the quests) into the game. They opted instead to keep the NGE and then try to (by dribbles) work in stuff from pre NGE.
They'd accomplish more by loading up the last Pre-NGE publish in terms of re-subs and their reputation than 1 billion man hours of work done to the NGE system. It's the NGE that failed, keeping it around is counterproductive.
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
As long as they build on the NGE core, the game cannot be fixed. Every problem the game currently has, from horrible gameplay to anemic subscription numbers, is a result of the fact that the current core game is not fun. The developers are in a position where the game actually needs a complete revamp, but they are also at the point where they are unwilling to do one.
I, very briefly, tried the last vet trial. I wouldn't say SOE has been moving too slow in improving the game, I'd say they are moving backwards. The game is a complete mess.
As much as I'd prefer a Pre-NGE game system, it would be unfair to say that the NGE cannot be built upon to create a good game. I just feel that they haven't made enough improvements or additions to the game in the last 2 years.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Well they have the same issues the Cu and NGE were suppose to correct. Bugs being top of the list followed by content. Of course "content" an "bugs" translates in SoE speak as " Massive 360 gameplay changes". So if they are going back to the old elements to fix the game but yet fail to capture the original appeal what does that tell you?
To me CH was 10 times better than beast master ever could be. If the beast master thingy was so great how come the population rise fell shortly after? Well i think its cause the rest of the game is so bad. The controls and combat is still goofy.
Benny hill still has influence over the NGE be it slowed down some. Lack of animations( still after 2 years) goofy over the top saturday morn japanamation garbage effects still remain. So the polish on this turd still stinks IMO. Even i disliked the CU because it was so WowEqish. Then at the end when it was somewhat fixed it was still fun and my friends list was still full..
So simply put SoE has done nothing to "Fix" Swg its the same ole game without the parts that made us ignore how broke it has allways been. The current game however i notice all its faults and have 0 fun nore care if it ever gets "fixed". As long as it uses the Nge engine it will allways be a failure to me and many more explayers...
I disagree. I feel that there are less bugs now than there was pre-NGE. However, bugs isn't really the issue here for me, except for the force power animation bugs that have been there since the NGE hit. The NGE introduced a lot of content, and that is a strength for the NGE, but SOE should be producing a lot more content than they have been. Whether you like it or not, the BH's, Smugglers, Traders, Entertainers, Politicians, and Pilots all have profession specific content. Commando's, Medics, Officers, and Spies actually belong in a GCW, so the GCW addition could be considered by many to be profession specific content for them. But 2 yrs later and the Jedi still do not have profession specific content. 2 yrs later and they still haven't fixed the gap between the Legacy quests and Mustafar. Kashyyk fills in some of that gap, but if a person wanted to, they wouldn't be able to quest from 1-90. Not only that, but you aren't even given choices in what quests you want to do if you did want to progress by quests alone from 1-90 like most other MMORPGs allow you to do. Most MMORPGs offer you several different ways to quest to max level. Most have to do with with race and location you choose. SWG offers no choice. So replayability sucks in SWG. That is just problems with content.
Then you have problems with class diversity. Jedi for example only have 1 choice for what robes/cloaks they can wear. There is only 1 viable way to spec your expertise if you are competing against others, so there is nothing distinguishing one Jedi from a Dark Jedi, which is far from the case in books. 2 yrs later and they are just now addressing the lightsaber hilt issues with the reimplementation of 5th generation lightsabers. There is still a problem with lightsaber crystals.
In 2 yrs, you shouldn't have any of these problems. The are problems that a company should face in Beta. SWG is not in Beta. We are to pay $15/mo for this product. Even Vanguard is a more complete game than SWG and it was just released.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
I will address each point with a number. I will go in order. But first I want to point out that all of that should not have taken 2 yrs to implement, only about 6-12 months.
1. Heavy Weapons was fixed within the first 6 months after the NGE. 2. You cannot level from 1-90 via questing, nor is there a variety of quests to do to make the game replayable by questing to max level alone. Again, another feature that was introduced with the NGE. 3. Restuss event came about around 9 months after the NGE, which is too slow to be implementing things. They spent the first 6 months fixing the NGE, while everyone kept paying them $15/mo. After about 6 mo of fixing is when they actually started introducing new things. Even then they didn't release things fast enough. Restuss is only one of a few things introduced since the NGE hit. Restuss can also be seen as a curse on the GCW along with the other 3 bases you can fight over for banners, stims, and the like. That is because by centralizing the GCW, it took the randomness of the GCW encounters away for the most part and now I have heard many people complaining on how players only fight in a few areas now. People used to fight everywhere.
Ah hell, forget the number system, I will just tell you how it is. That stuff you listed isn't enough to justify 2 yrs worth of work. They are working way too slow. That stuff should have been implemented within the first 6-12 months. By now, there should be no class problems or content problems.
Read my previous post and the top 5 issues thread on the SWG Jedi forums about problems with Jedi that have been ongoing since the NGE. This is unsat Obraik and even you should be able to admit that they have been working too slow. If I were to treat the NGE SWG as a stand alone game, not to be compared with the Pre-NGE game, which is what I am doing, I would still stand by my comments that SOE has introduced to few content and/or addition patches, and haven't fixed the class problems yet....especially Jedi.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
As long as they build on the NGE core, the game cannot be fixed. Every problem the game currently has, from horrible gameplay to anemic subscription numbers, is a result of the fact that the current core game is not fun. The developers are in a position where the game actually needs a complete revamp, but they are also at the point where they are unwilling to do one.
I, very briefly, tried the last vet trial. I wouldn't say SOE has been moving too slow in improving the game, I'd say they are moving backwards. The game is a complete mess.
As much as I'd prefer a Pre-NGE game system, it would be unfair to say that the NGE cannot be built upon to create a good game. I just feel that they haven't made enough improvements or additions to the game in the last 2 years.
That's like saying that except for the NGE, the NGE game has potential. It has none. Any fix of the NGE that would make it acceptable basically would involve wholesale redoing it to basically be the old game.
Much quicker to instead revert to the old game and THEN spend your time making the rest of the stuff they added work with that.
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
I will address each point with a number. I will go in order. But first I want to point out that all of that should not have taken 2 yrs to implement, only about 6-12 months.
1. Heavy Weapons was fixed within the first 6 months after the NGE. 2. You cannot level from 1-90 via questing, nor is there a variety of quests to do to make the game replayable by questing to max level alone. Again, another feature that was introduced with the NGE. 3. Restuss event came about around 9 months after the NGE, which is too slow to be implementing things. They spent the first 6 months fixing the NGE, while everyone kept paying them $15/mo. After about 6 mo of fixing is when they actually started introducing new things. Even then they didn't release things fast enough. Restuss is only one of a few things introduced since the NGE hit. Restuss can also be seen as a curse on the GCW along with the other 3 bases you can fight over for banners, stims, and the like. That is because by centralizing the GCW, it took the randomness of the GCW encounters away for the most part and now I have heard many people complaining on how players only fight in a few areas now. People used to fight everywhere.
Ah hell, forget the number system, I will just tell you how it is. That stuff you listed isn't enough to justify 2 yrs worth of work. They are working way too slow. That stuff should have been implemented within the first 6-12 months. By now, there should be no class problems or content problems.
Read my previous post and the top 5 issues thread on the SWG Jedi forums about problems with Jedi that have been ongoing since the NGE. This is unsat Obraik and even you should be able to admit that they have been working too slow. If I were to treat the NGE SWG as a stand alone game, not to be compared with the Pre-NGE game, which is what I am doing, I would still stand by my comments that SOE has introduced to few content and/or addition patches, and haven't fixed the class problems yet....especially Jedi.
The developers are only human, they can only work so fast and remember, there is only 20 of them. In the past we've seen cramming things all into a short period of time doesn't work, even when they had 70+ developers. Things came out badly broken, bugged, killed servers and broke other things that were unrelated. Chapters these days have alot more quality about them and they spend alot of time on Test Center being tweaked and fixed. I much prefer this slower paced publish cycle then the rapid cycle of pre-nge that cause much frustration. These Devs have also introduced more into the game in the same period of time then what was done pre-nge..
The developers are only mediocre. Most of them are noobs to the field. Heck, I doubt that ANYONE on the Dev team except Blix even SAW ANY of the original trilogy first in a theater, but saw them on VHS or DVD.
And they are outnumbered. Their task is to calm the revolt by somehow making the NGE acceptable to the 200,000 who quit over it.
This is impossible. Not even a handpicked Dev team led by Raph Koster could do that, it's impossible. You might as well ask a mechanic to turn a 1972 VW Bug into a Porsche 911. Sure, they are fundamentally BOTH cars, but you'd have to throw away all that is there and start anew building a Porsche to achieve it. This is the reality not acknowledged.
The best SOE Devs are on EQ2 or the DCMMO... Well, they moved Heliass there, so maybe not so.
The only Devs left on this game who were there Pre NGE were "piss boys" prior to their promotions.
We WILL NOT SURRENDER, we will NOT give up.
GIVE US OUR GAME BACK... That is all we've asked for. It's reasonable, especially considering how Smed calls the NGE a mistake... If he truly means that, PROVE IT. I call him out. If he doesn't give us classic servers, he's a damn liar, has no honor, means nothing that he says, and I will say it to his face.
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
QFE
What is wrong? Where are my 250 SP's? Where are my skill trees? Why are noobs Jedi? Why can anyone go to the village?
And why do mobs still shoot through hills and structures? Why do melee mobs attack from far more tha 5m?
---
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of SOE?
The Cabal Knows
As long as they build on the NGE core, the game cannot be fixed. Every problem the game currently has, from horrible gameplay to anemic subscription numbers, is a result of the fact that the current core game is not fun. The developers are in a position where the game actually needs a complete revamp, but they are also at the point where they are unwilling to do one.
I, very briefly, tried the last vet trial. I wouldn't say SOE has been moving too slow in improving the game, I'd say they are moving backwards. The game is a complete mess.
As much as I'd prefer a Pre-NGE game system, it would be unfair to say that the NGE cannot be built upon to create a good game. I just feel that they haven't made enough improvements or additions to the game in the last 2 years.
It isn't unfair at all. The NGE core is horrible, horrible enough that the developers have spent almost two years trying to hide it behind more and more game systems copied from WoW (the talent system was directly copied from WoW, right down to the UI). The NGE core is still there, and still making the game horrible. The developers have put more effort into the game since the NGE, than was put into improving the game from launch to the NGE, and it still isn't fun. The game needs a revamp at this point, there is no other way to improve it.
I cannot help myself here. Obraik, I will open with a question:
Has the SOE dev team EVER done anything wrong in your eyes?
I have never seen you even once question anything they have ever done. Everyone knows you enjoy the game. I totally respect that. It is one of the only places to get a science fiction experience. Where you loose your credibility is your total, undying support for anything these people do. I truly think that if they erased your characters altogether, you would proclaim it as a chance to start anew and still be in love with SOE.
As for everything you have listed below, I can only see one truly new thing that we didn't have in a previous version; the heavy weapon reticle. Everything else listed is a feature we already had or should NOT have to pay for. Bug bashes as content!?!? Are you serious?
You ask what is wrong with Jedi and you also say that you prefer the speed of combat. Have you ever actually looked at yourself run? The feet don't even match the pace of the ground covered. Jedi as a starter profession, totally degraded to the point where they are no stronger than any other profession, is opposite of the movie experience. Jedi were few, and they were much, much more capable in combat, negotiations, and diplomacy than anyone else. The old game at least attempted to emulate the path as best as they could. The new game hands it out like candy and doesn't even ask its patrons to behave like a Jedi.
The game is a mess, but through your eyes, all is well. I think perhaps that in RL you don't have a lot of power or respect, so you cling to this game as if it actually means something.
Obraik, it doesn't and playing it, defending everything about it, does not complete you. You should really try to be so passionate about something that actually matters, like feeding the homeless. I am very sure with your drive, there would not be a hungry soul in NZ.
/hug
You are a good guy, just misdirected.
<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Obraik</i>
<br><b><p>A list for you:</p>
<ul>
<li>Revamped Heavy Weapons (free targeting with no target needed to fire)</li>
<li>Leveling via questing</li>
<li>Restuss event</li>
<li>Profession expertise</li>
<li>GCW static bases (PvP zones around the Galaxy that give out rewards the longer your faction holds them)</li>
<li>GCW faction rank system</li>
<li>Implementation of a Smuggling system</li>
<li>Implementation of a ground RE system</li>
<li>Implementation of the Beast Master expertise to replace Creature Handler.</li>
<li>2 bug bashes</li>
<li>Revamped Imperial and Rebel themeparks</li>
<li>Implemented the Collections system</li>
<li>Implemented the Heroic encounters</li>
<li>Returned and revamped the Village</li>
</ul>
<p>Now, what's wrong with Jedi?</p></b></blockquote>
<br>
Akevv Ostone
No Longer SWG Free
The introduction of an alpha class was a terrible idea. I still remember playing when the first Jedi was unlocked (with the whole "There has been a great disturbance in the force" global message) and the 1mil bounty by Vader was put up on the terminals for their eradication. That was the coolest day I have ever seen on SWG, and yet the beginning of the end for SWG. Jedi were far to powerful now I get that people love to stroke their epeen and think they earned something and I was happy to hunt down and kill the jedi for free and easy cash as just spawned padawans up on the terminals.
Though the second that a fully templated jedi goes o hey group of 8 your going to do nothing and my weapon that is beyond better than anything you can imagine is going to mow you down.
I miss pre-jedi SWG that was the funnest I have ever had. The only way they could truly balance it was by making it available to everyone and remove it from the alpha class standing. (People might not think it, but with the village everyone would have ended up jedi and alpha classes removing its importance anyways [Dare I say possibly less jedi now than there might have been if the old system was left in?]). Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the Jedi of old, but it is just wrong the way it was put in and anyone saying differently obviously doesn't understand required balance of MMo's and the visability or grinding up a new character isn't enough to justify how overpowering the Jedi were.
They should have left it the way it was originally that upon character creation the game has already determined if you can become a jedi or not and that perma death existed for these characters (O, it would have been so much fun).
Ok we get it you dont like the NGE and you put some lame "Dont Keep Paying SOE" on your Tat house when you cancelled you subs which have all gone now btw
Just move on and leave the community you all said would die, (which didnt) to play a game they like.
i hated the game when the CU came out as you and all you Banther hunters who had nothing better to do all got together for Yawntastic hunts.
The NGE was not the answer to how it was when the game was first came out but its a better game than that CU you all hark back to.
In fact most of the original pre CU players are still playing whilst all of you guys live with this We hate SOE crap.
Move on mate, its getting boring now
Creator & Founder of =GK= Clan 2004
=GK= Founder & Creator 2004
Multi Gamer