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EA adds adware to HGL! How far is too far?
DataDay
Member UncommonPosts: 1,538
It appears that EA will not stop at just ingame adverts in HGL, but in addition to charging a monthly fee, plus purchasing expansions, plus ingame advertisements... they include adware and data tracking in the game itself.
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/34926/Hellgate-London-Includes-Adware
http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=81996
HGL is fun, but is it fun enough to let EA do the unthinkable? To allow publishers to go this far?
According to the EULA
3. Consent to Use of Data. You agree that EA, its affiliates, and each Related Party may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer, including without limitation your Internet Protocol address, operating system, application software and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online play. EA and/or the Related Parties may also use this information in the aggregate and, in a form which does not personally identify you, to improve our products and services and we may share that aggregate data with our third party service providers.
EA has the right to track your computer and use its data to give you.. yes more ads and the like. Will Adaware uninstall my HGL? I hope so.
Comments
That is troubling indeed. If it only affect non-subscribers, and aren't intrusive then I could accept it.
But if subscribers are getting adds in-game then it's a big no-no in my book.
I swear i haven't seen a publisher as downright idiotic as EA. Noone manages to beat them as far as asshattery and general PITA behaviour goes.
Not good, not good at all.
Not so much the adds in game, I don't mind those, but the fact that they collect data about everything on your PC...
That smells an *awfull* lot like spyware...
We'll have to see I guess, but I know for sure that I'll be tweaking my firewall...
I could be wrong but I believe a clause like this is pretty common in MMOs. I believe Blizzard's warden for WoW is very similiar and includes a similiar clause in the eula. This information allows them to better track hacks and cheats, as well as identifying network bottlenecks, performance issues, and the like.
I think you may be taking this a bit out of context.
I am personally not too fond of EA, but it's pretty much as you said it is. Same system WoW uses.
It might be the intent of that clause, but it's not what it says.
It basically says it can take anything and everything from your PC and share it with whomever they want.
They clause does state "in a form which does not personally identify you" but that's rather general.
Does an IP or email adres they harvested identify who you are? Not overly, yet it can be easily used to track you or (in the case of those with their own domain and/or rDNS) much more of your personal info.
Scary stuff if you ask me.
WoW's lisence agreement is much more limiting in what Blizzard can do. The scan data from computer is only used to catch cheaters, identification data is only used for identification, and only non-personal data is used by Blizzard to make demographic studies of its customers.
Edit: Blizzard's licence agreement wouldn't allow them to share your identification data with their marketing partners to study your behaviour on the net and make personally tailored ads based on that. EA's license agreement allows.
I am against paying subscribers getting ads also. But if a game is free and with ads, thats cool. This is still a business, and it takes money to keep an mmo running. Acclaim, Ubisoft, and Funcom have the right idea, with free-sub, ad-supported games. These games also do it very inconspicuously, eg. during loading, after death, etc.
This is a dealbreaker and I just cancelled my preorder. I will not pay a monthly fee for stuff that's also supported by advertising. EA is trying to "double bang" us with a sub, then taking payments at the other end from advertisers. It's not a good deal. If they made it free to play they can put all the ads they want in there. This is the same reason I won't be subscribing to Tabula Rasa.
AoC is looking better and better.... Greedy m****f****ers....
Don't let EA screw you. If you have any self respect don't pay a monthly fee for games which are supported by advertising. I don't care how good they are....
Edit : Of course you could run tcpdump (or netstat even) to get the domain and blackhole the ad servers with your firewall >8) It doesn't say in the EULA that you can't block them.
-Viz
Your panicing over something that isn't as bad as you think it is.
The game has had ads all along, on posters, in the stations. Its a natural fit for the subway stations. Its VERY non etrusive. Honestly, after reading a couple the first time I got in the game, just to see what it was, I haven't bothered to pay attention to them at all since. I have totally forgotten they are even there, until someone starts complaining about it on forums.
If you read the entire agreement, there is cause for concern. Contrary to other reports, the software at present does not collect personally identifiable information, and that includes your e-mail address, web site usage, etc.
Unfortunately, the truly scary part is that the license agreement (from Massive) can change without notification. Theoretically speaking, they could change the policy to include elements of spyware and never let you know. Unlikely yes, but theoretically possible.
In the end, I don't care about the advertising. I'm so used to it I just don't care as long as it's not intrusive. However, I have no interest in a carte blanch contract with Massive that allows them to install adware in any form without notification. I want a contractual promise that I will be notified before any changes to the policy affect my computer. If that part of the agreement does not change for release, then I may very well return the software.
I will most deffinately be adding their add server IPs to my firewall :P
They can't take date from your PC without you agreeing to it specificly and knowing exactly what they are taking each time. It doesn't matter what the EULA says it cannot override the law.
They are basically using spyware and there is no other way to put it...
im not one for in game ads as i absolutely depise them. To me ads in game showcase a Company's Namely EA's overall greed by not only charging Fee's but making money on a backdrop deal with advert companies by sifting thru computer info, identifying me by my IP address and sending me crap I frankly dont want to see.
Static ads and dynamic ads are a different breed let me state that off. when you see a static environment ad it was there from the get go, i dont mind realism for realism sake. but when u constitute what Dynamic adverts are and how they operate there is much more to worry about vs a static mesh with a texture of coke applied. what is stoppng them from garnering or siphoning more info from you??
id say in the end its an easy decision dont pay for it. Dont sign on the dotted line giving away your rights when u play that game, thats what your essentially doing. Besides I played the demo i didnt really notice ads cause frankly I was too busy shooting zombies with my crappy big gun. if it was going online to sift and swap out info then yeah I gott admit im a bit mad cause this isnt a online demo. but oh well, the game as I found as I played the entirity of the demo, its mediocre at best. to me, in my opinion its not worth $9.95 a month i dont appreciate their audacity of using the term "MMO" when frankly it doesnt constitute as a MMO. GW and DDO constitute more as a MMO than they do, but they do have alot in common when it comes to heavy instancing. but still since Diablo 1/2 came out Hell gate isnt much different from its predecessors. and for that I wont pay for it, simple as that, problem solved for me.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
imagine this... you go to a baseball game, something you do every month or so.. and this time the sponsor of the game stops you at the gate. You show them your ticket which you payed 40 bucks for, and they say "ok you are in, but we get to search you first, and then ask you some questions, and possibly send some agents over to look inside your house to see what you own. Ok?"
When you get to your seat, you find a wall blocking half your view, something that was not there before. That sponsor comes back to you and says, "hey if you give us ten dollars an inning, you can sit in front of that wall instead of behind it, thus you can see more of the game and are allowed to order snacks and beer as well." You pay. Half way through the game, a NEW team switches place with the one of the other teams.
The sponsor comes back over to you again and says "hey, yeah, you need to pay the admission fee again. You see, you payed for the Yankees vs Mets game, not the Yankees vs Red Sox. Thus you need to pay again or else you cant watch anymore."
This is essentially what is happening here. Think on it.
Nothing EA does surpries me anymore. If I could pick one gaming company to remove - it would be EA. Personally, I wouldn't mind in-game advertising, but collecting data to send me ads when I'm a paying subscriber already is just plain rediculous. But then again, this is EA - not surprised at all.
Question - were the in-game ads to play Madden 2008? ROFL
You guys need to look at all the MMOs you play and read the eula, because almost every single MMO has a clause exactly like that. They all do this, I don't understand why people are getting so bent out of shape for this game, because they all do this. It helps them to understand what settings your runnning on, and what kind of fps you are getting, so they know what they have to fix.
You're right but there is more:
16. Massive Technology. The Software incorporates technology of Massive Incorporated ("Massive") that enables in-game advertising, and the display of other similar in-game objects, which are uploaded temporarily to your personal computer or game console and replaced during online game play. As part of this process, Massive may collect your Internet protocol address and other basic anonymous information, and will use this information for the general purposes of transmitting and measuring in-game advertising. Massive does not store or use any of this information for the purpose of discovering your personal identity. For additional details regarding Massive’s in-game advertising practices, and to understand your options with respect to in-game advertising and data collection, please see Massive's privacy policy at http://www.massiveincorporated.com/site_network/privacy.htm. The trademarks and copyrighted material contained in all in-game advertising are the property of the respective owners. Portions of this product are © 2007 Massive Incorporated. All rights reserved.
Read the link for more fun information.
The only thing that concerns me is that their policy can change without notification.
i dont know of any succesful mmo that comes with adware. they can get some info about your computer without adware, and the info they cant get, they can get through optional surveys given to the customers.
what EA wants from you is not info about your system to improve the game, thats just something put in the eula to try to justify it. they want info like what websites you visit and your email etc to sell to other companys so they spam you with ads and blah blah blah. EA SUCKS, all they do is rape and pillage.
Lets look at WoW's Eula for example
5. Consent to Monitor. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH THE GAME. AN “UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM� AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY “ADDON,� “MOD,� “HACK,� “TRAINER,� OR “CHEAT,� THAT IN BLIZZARD'S SOLE DETERMINATION: (i) ENABLES OR FACILITATES CHEATING OF ANY TYPE; (ii) ALLOWS USERS TO MODIFY OR HACK THE GAME INTERFACE, ENVIRONMENT, AND/OR EXPERIENCE IN ANY WAY NOT EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZED BY BLIZZARD; OR (iii) INTERCEPTS, “MINES,� OR OTHERWISE COLLECTS INFORMATION FROM OR THROUGH THE GAME. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, THE GAME MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.
See the big difference between what is going on with HGL and other MMO titles? The other MMO titles search your ram for cheat software. Thats it. HGL, actually data mines your computer and sells its information to third parties. Parties like Massive Inc., also owned by microsoft.
the reason it sounds like adware is because it actually almost IS a version of adware. if you want to know the truth Blizzards "Warden" actually conflicts with some anti-virus/spyware/adware programs and i believe Lunix OS, because its recognized as a spyware.
Secondly, EA started the dynamic advertisements in-game with BF:2142. Now personally i dont have much of a problem with it as EA (being the large company they are) if caught selling this information for reasons being against advertisement or for anything outside the law then they could be brought to there knees... or at least leave a small dent in those overly-large pockets.
The main problem everyone should be pissed about is that they want to double bag the cash.
"Sure we'll charge the player money so that we can support the game and its updates, but then we'll also throw adds in so people can stare at them and so we can use add money to support the game!!"
It doesnt work that way, at least not the last time i checked.
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
I am personally not too fond of EA, but it's pretty much as you said it is. Same system WoW uses.
Yep, it is pretty much very similar across platforms/developers/publishers. WoW is doing the same thing, along with various other companies. SOE is the only one i can't think that does it due to being sued over the root kit in the CD's sony sold and didn't want to worry about the suit again. Though NCsoft is pretty notorious for this exact same thing.
People will complain about anything and the natural course is to let them complain till they realize it is in THEIR FAVORITE GAME then it becomes a moot point.
For the people who are upset that it can change at anytime. Take a look at the WOW eula it says when it was last updated, which if you look is after the launch, they have changed it many times.
When Blizzard changes it EULA, or makes changes to it you always know. How? Because you have to agree to it again. When do these changes occur usually? Its marked on the EULA. How would i know its changed? Changes are made and put into play usually the next update, were when you log in you have to resign the agreement. So what was your point again demon? As far as I can see, and am pretty sure. If EA changes the EULA, it will be during a patch and you will have to resign it. I have never played a game that changed a EULA without you knowing it or atleast making you resign it.
I have to say...I've had fun playing the demo. But the subscription and non-subscription thing they have set up bugs me. This does too. I much rather would have preferred the GW route of multiple expansions than a monthly fee. But that's ok because I'll have Guitar Hero 3 to keep me busy til a real MMO pops up.
My point was that people are saying that it will change with out them telling you, but they will tell you, its not like they will just spring it on you, it will be just like wow does.