I'm now totally convinced that this genre is dead. The warning signs were in the air with Age of Mourning scamming as easily as they did. The rot spread with Dark and Light. The SWG NGE debacle showed that even popular games weren't immune. Seed, Horizons, Auto Assault, Vanguard, and now Gods and Heroes. All casualties of a market that's quickly realizing that MMOs are just a quagmire. I don't know about you all, but I don't see many new titles listed "under development." Given the track record, who can blame anyone for getting out of this business? All of this is because developers and publishing houses have made it too easy to scam, too easy to drop out, and too easy to skimp on reliability. Unless Blizzard develops it, the smart money ain't gonna go into MMOs. Who can blame it, when we can't even produce a game anymore?
I disagree. I feel that the easy money is gone from the MMO market (the novelty has worn off). This happens with any new genre that is introduced. It just means that that developers/publishers cannot rely on the fact it's an mmo in order to get guaranteed sales.
There are quite a few successful MMOs and room for more (people were doing the same doomsday about video games in the past). I do think you will see an MMO recession but once sanity gains a foothold in the business things will be fine.
Well after beta testing G&H and having an abrupt halt of the game, I'm done with PE. This isn't any way to handle community relationships and treat potential customers.
I can't imagine there being a large enough audience for STO for even it to be greatly successful. Sure there are Trekkie fans but in this day and age is Star Trek a popular name with the younger generation?
Ok I admit I did not read every post in the thread. I did however read the interview and the original release saying G&H was cancelled in favor of Star Trek Online. I was hoping to play G&H, but now I am back to considering PoTBS and a few others.
Does anyone else think it is more than a coincidence that the new Star Trek movie is finishing casting and will begin shooting later this year? It sounds to me like the Star Trek stake holders want to make sure STO is ready by the time the next movie hits theaters.
Playing WoT now.
Favorite All-Time Games: Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings Online
I'm now totally convinced that this genre is dead. The warning signs were in the air with Age of Mourning scamming as easily as they did. The rot spread with Dark and Light. The SWG NGE debacle showed that even popular games weren't immune. Seed, Horizons, Auto Assault, Vanguard, and now Gods and Heroes. All casualties of a market that's quickly realizing that MMOs are just a quagmire. I don't know about you all, but I don't see many new titles listed "under development." Given the track record, who can blame anyone for getting out of this business? All of this is because developers and publishing houses have made it too easy to scam, too easy to drop out, and too easy to skimp on reliability. Unless Blizzard develops it, the smart money ain't gonna go into MMOs. Who can blame it, when we can't even produce a game anymore?
I completely understand the decision they made and the only people i feel sorry for are the people who had actually pre-ordered the game and the people who lost their jobs. They don't owe beta testers anything... testers aren't doing them a favour, they are doing it because they are enjoying it.
I expect it was one of those things that someone was trying to prevent from happening for a while, fought the battle right upto the deadline and lost at which point the server went down. No chance for notice and no funds to prolong the servers. I actually respect the decision. Nothing worse than an unfinished release and to me it expresses just how much in the way of resourses they are going to put into STO. If they do a bad job, it will be an unforgivable tragedy and i think they realise that. Good luck to them, and i can't wait for STO!
Beta testers are not doing them a FAVOR? Do you have any idea what it means to be a beta tester?
Beta testers are absolutely a HUGE part in a games development weather it is a MMO or a Single player game.
Beta testers find more bugs and problems than a company could ever help to find on their own, because there are THOUSANDS of people bug searching everyday. We do them a FAVOR by testing and reporting bugs found. Even those that do not report, are still helping with just logging IN! I think the majority of the beta testers of G&H (which I was one) can understand the business side of closing down the game.
The problem we have is how they handled it: No warning, still taking pre-orders, and just out and out lying to the gaming comunity
I will not play or support STO, no with the way PE has handled things so far, and STO is looking like crap anyways..hardly any Star Trek lore at all. It is good to see that FINALLY most of the game community is not putting up with this kind of crap any more, and after years of customer abuse from Sony, its is ABOUT TIME!
I'm now totally convinced that this genre is dead. The warning signs were in the air with Age of Mourning scamming as easily as they did. The rot spread with Dark and Light. The SWG NGE debacle showed that even popular games weren't immune. Seed, Horizons, Auto Assault, Vanguard, and now Gods and Heroes. All casualties of a market that's quickly realizing that MMOs are just a quagmire. I don't know about you all, but I don't see many new titles listed "under development." Given the track record, who can blame anyone for getting out of this business? All of this is because developers and publishing houses have made it too easy to scam, too easy to drop out, and too easy to skimp on reliability. Unless Blizzard develops it, the smart money ain't gonna go into MMOs. Who can blame it, when we can't even produce a game anymore?
Yes, there are 15 games "in development" on the sidebar here. Reduce that to thirteen now, as STO and G&H are now on the shelf.
Some of those titles have been on that sidebar for years now, with hardly any announcements for launch anytime soon (Huxley and Darkfall come to mind). If we are lucky, maybe 3/4 of them will launch. Maybe 1/2, or less.
Of those, how many are going to be so riddled with bugs, unfinished content, and unstable service ala Vanguard? Given the recent trends, a lot. Maybe all of them.
And how many new titles have been announced this year, as opposed to say...2003? Not many. Yes, there's still some forays, but not as many as before.
This is now a mature market. Not too much new and easy growth potential here that hasn't already been tapped. Now of course, anything is possible I guess, but expanding the potential customer base isn't that easy, given that pretty much everyone who is into this sort of entertainment is already here worldwide.
Plus, you have a lot of other options today in online entertainment than strictly MMORPGs. You have more sophisticated and user-friendly peer-to-peer offerings from the consoles. You have non-MMO social spaces like MySpace and Facebook. All of those things are a lot less expensive for the user, and better facilitate a lot of the things people used to go to MMORPGs to find (multiplayer competition, social interaction, etc.).
So when I say the genre's dead, I'm not saying that MMOs are dead. I'm saying that this format is proving itself to be a fad. Evidence of this comes in the form of a plethora of bad games, bad launches, and now with Perpetual's announcement, no launches at all.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Maybe I am before my time, but I don't think MMO's are a fad and a game genre that is anywhere near it's potential yet. Are MMO's dying? Not likely. Rather, todays MMO's are just the beginning. I believe that in my lifetime (I am 32 now) MMO's will merge with Virtual Reality enterprises. VR has been talked about and experimented with for a long time, but mostly what has been done so far is very limited such as flying or military training simulators and remote medical/surgical environments. The MMO games of today are really providing important research and development that will help push future technologies and open up new business opportunities. We will be amazed at what is out there in 20 years. I think there is a very good chance that some enterprising genius will take a chance and create a realistic, persistent electronic world in which huge numbers of people can experience things with all their senses that they would never otherwise be able to experience. People tend to think movies like the Matrix are just cool sci-fi flics... think again. Sooner or later, someone will realize the money that massively multi-user virtual worlds can bring and will make them a reality. You might not get plugged in the same way Neo does in the Matrix, but sight, sound, touch, even smell will be able to be duplicated for the user to experience what will seem completely real. One day MMOs/VR probably will evolve to such a point where families actually plan vacations for a week in such-and-such "game". Companies will sell "game time" by the night, like hotels charge for stays. Instead of going to Disney World, imagine taking your family back in time to ancient Rome or driving rovers on Mars or reliving a world series baseball game from Babe Ruth's time.
MMO's are one of first baby steps to making all that happen.
Playing WoT now.
Favorite All-Time Games: Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings Online
Hmm well having beta'd it a bit myself I also am not really surprised.
As for the MMO market.. it should be about time the mmo gold rush ends. Bunch of companies saw a new cash source, jumped on it, failed. Good. Let them go back to making traditional games. Meanwhile some of the classics are still going doing pretty good, even with their aged graphics and engines... What is wrong with the developer world today that they can't see what made those classics stay alive for so long?
As for Star Trek.. that has a lot of potential customers, thats for sure. Trek was a phenomenon in it's time, and a lot of those people are still around, still playing games. Trek would have had the potential for a great sandbox style mmo like that game genre occasionally hints at, too bad Perpetual got it instead of say, bioware or some other big name, that could afford to not try to be another craptastic customer churnmill like WoW is.
"I'll add that the world-wide market potential of an MMO based on Star Trek is colossal and it is hard to imagine ever [not] coming to the same decision.”
Translation: It's easier to sell crap in a box labled "Star Trek" than "Gods and Heroes".
Yes, I am that cynical.
My cynicism is fueled by years of gaming experience with mass media IPs and games.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Comments
I disagree. I feel that the easy money is gone from the MMO market (the novelty has worn off). This happens with any new genre that is introduced. It just means that that developers/publishers cannot rely on the fact it's an mmo in order to get guaranteed sales.There are quite a few successful MMOs and room for more (people were doing the same doomsday about video games in the past). I do think you will see an MMO recession but once sanity gains a foothold in the business things will be fine.
Well after beta testing G&H and having an abrupt halt of the game, I'm done with PE. This isn't any way to handle community relationships and treat potential customers.
I can't imagine there being a large enough audience for STO for even it to be greatly successful. Sure there are Trekkie fans but in this day and age is Star Trek a popular name with the younger generation?
Ok I admit I did not read every post in the thread. I did however read the interview and the original release saying G&H was cancelled in favor of Star Trek Online. I was hoping to play G&H, but now I am back to considering PoTBS and a few others.
Does anyone else think it is more than a coincidence that the new Star Trek movie is finishing casting and will begin shooting later this year? It sounds to me like the Star Trek stake holders want to make sure STO is ready by the time the next movie hits theaters.
Playing WoT now.
Favorite All-Time Games: Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings Online
* five * mmos are launching soon in Q1 2008
Warhammer
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/home/index.php
Age of Conan
http://www.ageofconan.com
Chronicles of Spellborn
http://www.thechroniclesofspellborn.com
Pirates of the Burning Seas
http://www.burningsea.com/page/home
Heros Journey (est 2007 but i bet it launches Q1 2008)
http://www.play.net/hj/
EQ2 fan sites
* five * mmos are launching soon in Q1 2008
Warhammer
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/home/index.php
Age of Conan
http://www.ageofconan.com
Chronicles of Spellborn
http://www.thechroniclesofspellborn.com
Pirates of the Burning Seas
http://www.burningsea.com/page/home
Heros Journey (est 2007 but i bet it launches Q1 2008)
http://www.play.net/hj/
Dont forget Pirates of the Caribbean!
Yes, there are 15 games "in development" on the sidebar here. Reduce that to thirteen now, as STO and G&H are now on the shelf.
Some of those titles have been on that sidebar for years now, with hardly any announcements for launch anytime soon (Huxley and Darkfall come to mind). If we are lucky, maybe 3/4 of them will launch. Maybe 1/2, or less.
Of those, how many are going to be so riddled with bugs, unfinished content, and unstable service ala Vanguard? Given the recent trends, a lot. Maybe all of them.
And how many new titles have been announced this year, as opposed to say...2003? Not many. Yes, there's still some forays, but not as many as before.
This is now a mature market. Not too much new and easy growth potential here that hasn't already been tapped. Now of course, anything is possible I guess, but expanding the potential customer base isn't that easy, given that pretty much everyone who is into this sort of entertainment is already here worldwide.
Plus, you have a lot of other options today in online entertainment than strictly MMORPGs. You have more sophisticated and user-friendly peer-to-peer offerings from the consoles. You have non-MMO social spaces like MySpace and Facebook. All of those things are a lot less expensive for the user, and better facilitate a lot of the things people used to go to MMORPGs to find (multiplayer competition, social interaction, etc.).
So when I say the genre's dead, I'm not saying that MMOs are dead. I'm saying that this format is proving itself to be a fad. Evidence of this comes in the form of a plethora of bad games, bad launches, and now with Perpetual's announcement, no launches at all.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Maybe I am before my time, but I don't think MMO's are a fad and a game genre that is anywhere near it's potential yet. Are MMO's dying? Not likely. Rather, todays MMO's are just the beginning. I believe that in my lifetime (I am 32 now) MMO's will merge with Virtual Reality enterprises. VR has been talked about and experimented with for a long time, but mostly what has been done so far is very limited such as flying or military training simulators and remote medical/surgical environments. The MMO games of today are really providing important research and development that will help push future technologies and open up new business opportunities. We will be amazed at what is out there in 20 years. I think there is a very good chance that some enterprising genius will take a chance and create a realistic, persistent electronic world in which huge numbers of people can experience things with all their senses that they would never otherwise be able to experience. People tend to think movies like the Matrix are just cool sci-fi flics... think again. Sooner or later, someone will realize the money that massively multi-user virtual worlds can bring and will make them a reality. You might not get plugged in the same way Neo does in the Matrix, but sight, sound, touch, even smell will be able to be duplicated for the user to experience what will seem completely real. One day MMOs/VR probably will evolve to such a point where families actually plan vacations for a week in such-and-such "game". Companies will sell "game time" by the night, like hotels charge for stays. Instead of going to Disney World, imagine taking your family back in time to ancient Rome or driving rovers on Mars or reliving a world series baseball game from Babe Ruth's time.
MMO's are one of first baby steps to making all that happen.
Playing WoT now.
Favorite All-Time Games: Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings Online
Hmm well having beta'd it a bit myself I also am not really surprised.
As for the MMO market.. it should be about time the mmo gold rush ends. Bunch of companies saw a new cash source, jumped on it, failed. Good. Let them go back to making traditional games. Meanwhile some of the classics are still going doing pretty good, even with their aged graphics and engines... What is wrong with the developer world today that they can't see what made those classics stay alive for so long?
As for Star Trek.. that has a lot of potential customers, thats for sure. Trek was a phenomenon in it's time, and a lot of those people are still around, still playing games. Trek would have had the potential for a great sandbox style mmo like that game genre occasionally hints at, too bad Perpetual got it instead of say, bioware or some other big name, that could afford to not try to be another craptastic customer churnmill like WoW is.
"I'll add that the world-wide market potential of an MMO based on Star Trek is colossal and it is hard to imagine ever [not] coming to the same decision.”
Translation: It's easier to sell crap in a box labled "Star Trek" than "Gods and Heroes".
Yes, I am that cynical.
My cynicism is fueled by years of gaming experience with mass media IPs and games.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi