I'm not sure if the mistakes are necessairly a problem because the staff is volunteer or because of a general lack of orginzation. The games sure are enormously more complex than any other game I've ever played, but I think main reason it feels like that is because it is just so disorganized. It FEELS thrown together. It FEELS like a patchwork quilt. Patchwork quilts are very intricate, very complex, and very worthwhile, but I think todays gamer demands a certain level of organization and unity to your product. Finish what you start, bring it out in a large sweeping update. Do what GS4 was SUPPOSED to do. If you want organization, finish the guild system. Finish the spell system. Finish all the current systems and get them orgainized. THEN you can work on new and updated things.
Let me be the first to say I have no interest in A WALK IN THE PARK, so let me be the first to say a Dragonrealms or Gemstone in 3D at the level those two MUDs are now would be beyond my wildest dreams.
SO thats one vote that totally disagrees with you !!
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
It doesn't really disagree with me. I said in the second paragraph that Gemstone is incredibly complex. It has a rich history, great gameplay, many options, and an amazing RP atmosphere. I play it for these reasons. Any MMO with as many diverse options as GS or DR I would play forever.
I DO however, dislike the disorganized feel and unfinished quality of Gemstone. The incomplete nature of the game to promote future development is one thing, but dangling it in front of our faces and telling us that things are being worked on that clearly aren't just to string your loyal fan-base along is just mean and happens because of a disorganized company philosophy.
It doesn't really disagree with me. I said in the second paragraph that Gemstone is incredibly complex. It has a rich history, great gameplay, many options, and an amazing RP atmosphere. I play it for these reasons. Any MMO with as many diverse options as GS or DR I would play forever. I DO however, dislike the disorganized feel and unfinished quality of Gemstone. The incomplete nature of the game to promote future development is one thing, but dangling it in front of our faces and telling us that things are being worked on that clearly aren't just to string your loyal fan-base along is just mean and happens because of a disorganized company philosophy.
We have to remember that a lot of the full time staff at Simu is focusing their efforts on HJ and have been for several years now. I don't think the problem is disorganization, I think it's just a lack of employees. They're still a small company. Some of the people, like Melissa Meyer have left the company and moved on to other things and we have no idea who they have found to replace those people. So when you start off small and get even smaller then it's difficult to get everything done that needs to get done. I believe that Simu has already mentioned that their priority is HJ and that GS and DR may suffer because of that. So we shouldn't be surprised if projects in those games are put on hold for a while. Hopefully after HJ is up and running, they can get some more people on their full time staff and thus have a more spread out effort that can focus on all of their games. But right now their focus is on HJ. Even with all of the things that are unfinished in GS and DR they are still much more enjoyable that any graphics based MMO that I've played. If and when the projects are finished, those games will be that much better.
It doesn't really disagree with me. I said in the second paragraph that Gemstone is incredibly complex. It has a rich history, great gameplay, many options, and an amazing RP atmosphere. I play it for these reasons. Any MMO with as many diverse options as GS or DR I would play forever. I DO however, dislike the disorganized feel and unfinished quality of Gemstone. The incomplete nature of the game to promote future development is one thing, but dangling it in front of our faces and telling us that things are being worked on that clearly aren't just to string your loyal fan-base along is just mean and happens because of a disorganized company philosophy.
Valendros,
That was one of my main beefs. It seemed to me as a player that Simutronics spent too much time on new and interesting things, and not enough on those things that "the players cared about". When I became a GM it kind of opened my eyes to some of the goings on behind the screen. Some of the players were incredibly well informed about the inner workings of the game, and anything that GM managed to do that wasn't quite up to snuff was eviscerated on the boards. What this meant was that things like spells, and new ares were huge undertakings. They had to be scripted carefully, and then slipped into older scripts that in some cases were not easily adapted. There were some things that GMs wanted to do, that just plain were not practical when implemented.
Melissa did a very good job trying to predict the things the GMs would work on each year, and each year everything on the list got addressed. Sometimes (depending on the complexity) the designwork just didn't get done due to alot of different reasons. The 750 spell is being used as an example. It was supposed to be "Major demonic summoning", and was supposed to be a level 50 spell. When Banthis first considered it, I'd be willing to bet that he never even considered anyone would make it to 160th level or higher, and expected a very few people to be able to cast the spell that he originally proposed. In that game world, demons were pretty much the ultimate opponent, they just did utter nasty things to the world itself.
Once the levels of the people reached those astronomical levels, you could no longer put that kind of power into a spell like that. BUT, the sorcerors were all hot to trot about it, and really wanted it, to the point the players of those sorcerors still hold grudges against the company. I played a sorceror named Sepip for a long time, he was married in game to a lovely sorceress named Alisanne. Her feelings that the company was toying with her as a customer was a large reason we both left that game. I'm not sure that the company as a unit ever managed to explain their reasoning to the players of sorcerors. The toughest thing about it though was the company stopped promising it back in 99ish(?) when they realized how much work it would take and how badly the game balance would be skewed, but the players kept it alive because they really wanted it. As you can see by a couple previous posts, players who don't even play the game anymore are still wanting that spell.
By the way, I signed an NDA way back when, so make sure that you understand that what I just said is my opinion, and suppositions. I have never had a conversation with any of the main designers about the 750 spell, and if I had, I would not post about it here.
What I am hoping for Hero's Journey is that the creative talent the company has, can take their time and design a world that has everything linked together and all of the main pieces in place at launch. The people in that company are some of the most creative people I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with.
A situation that I dealt with in my real job describes Simutronics so well it is scary. I work as a design engineer for a large defense company and early in my career we had a group of customers in for a presentation. I was in my office when one of the customers left the meeting, and entered the conference room across from me, and then scaled his briefcase against the wall. Being an idiot and too dumb to just let him cool off, I went in and talked to him. After about 20 minutes of listening to him just rant, I finally figured out why he was so mad. There was a piece of the design that both companies were working on, and he was in charge of that piece. He had just watched a presentation that he thought removed his half from the design and replaced it with something we designed. After I sat with him, went through the design and explaned that the presentation seemed to be misleading, we were not in fact designing his piece out, he cooled off enough to ask why we couldn't have just said that.
I told him that we had some of the brightest designers in the world. As a company we could design almost anything we were asked to do, and that there were people in that company that lost me after about the third word. We had people that lived and breathed these designs, but if you were to ask them to explain themselves it was like pulling teeth. We were a company of eggheads that were damned good designers, but not real good at customer relations or explaining ourselves. He laughed and told me that was the best description of the company I work for he had ever heard. He still stops in to see me when he is in our area.
That is kind of how I see Simutronics. They are damned good at what they do, but they need to work at the customer side of things a little bit.
Melissa did a very good job trying to predict the things the GMs would work on each year, and each year everything on the list got addressed. Sometimes (depending on the complexity) the designwork just didn't get done due to alot of different reasons. The 750 spell is being used as an example. It was supposed to be "Major demonic summoning", and was supposed to be a level 50 spell. When Banthis first considered it, I'd be willing to bet that he never even considered anyone would make it to 160th level or higher, and expected a very few people to be able to cast the spell that he originally proposed. In that game world, demons were pretty much the ultimate opponent, they just did utter nasty things to the world itself. Once the levels of the people reached those astronomical levels, you could no longer put that kind of power into a spell like that. BUT, the sorcerors were all hot to trot about it, and really wanted it, to the point the players of those sorcerors still hold grudges against the company. I played a sorceror named Sepip for a long time, he was married in game to a lovely sorceress named Alisanne. Her feelings that the company was toying with her as a customer was a large reason we both left that game. I'm not sure that the company as a unit ever managed to explain their reasoning to the players of sorcerors. The toughest thing about it though was the company stopped promising it back in 99ish(?) when they realized how much work it would take and how badly the game balance would be skewed, but the players kept it alive because they really wanted it. As you can see by a couple previous posts, players who don't even play the game anymore are still wanting that spell.
Pin,
Great post. And I agree with you almost completely. But I have to point out, as this illustrates both your point about the "eggheads," as you affectionately describe some of the employees at Simu, who still have much to learn about customer service, and the point I made in a previous post, about 750 ... drum roll please ...
750 · Demonic Control
Not yet implemented
Duration: Variable
Type: Attack
This spell will allow the caster to summon specific, unique demons to (hopefully) do the caster's bidding. Woe to the caster who loses control of this type of demon. The immediate effects would most likely include something extremely unpleasant.
The quote above was taken directly from their website a few minutes ago. As near as I can tell, this an almost identical name (I think it was Demonic Summoning ... actually, I can't remember, but something like that). And now it's called Demonic Control. But essentially, the description of the spell hasn't changed. If it has the change has been minor, indeed.
At any rate, please don't mistake this for a rant. But, I couldn't resist. If I recall correctly, I started playing GS3 in 94/95 (when AOL was hourly). So, 14-15 years this spell has been carrotishly dangled before the consumer?
Gotta love em. And I do. As I've grown older, I see the passion Simutronic's volunteers have for the games they create and appreciate that passion much more than what hasn't been implemented.
That said, I do think the false promises are and continue to be fraudulent. Legally actionable? I have no idea. But my definition of fraud doesn't have to be the same as Uncle Sam's. But at the very least, it must be considered a questionable ethics issue -- to advertise a product for over a decade, produce, at times, "target" release dates (and no, I can't remember any of them, but I'm sure they were never more specific than saying 'sometime in the year ...') and then never release the product.
BUT, having said all that, IF they can bring some of that GS/DR complexity, richness to detail, customization that exists in their current products, then they'll have a hit of some sort on its hand. (Something EVE-like in the subscriber base, most likely).
But I must say, they'd better deliver something truly unique. The market is glutted, as we all know, with EQ/WoW knockoffs. I'd hate to see this become another, sadly lost in the shuffle.
Ironically, I'd take another batch of empty promises, missed releases, questionable design decisions, etc. if it meant I could play, graphically, GS/DR. I certainly don't think they'll manage that level of complexity. I don't think they'll come close. But I"m hoping they'll surprise me. I won't write them off.
I really look toward the future, 5-10 years from now. It will be fascinating to watch as the MMO genre develops. I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon. Despite the inevitable periods of stagnancy. Each new game brings us a baby step closer to that nirvana so many people hope for -- to jack in, matrix style, and live where and how we want -- we just need the tools, the power of quantum computing/molecular computing, true AI and nanotechnology, to give developers a not so gentle nudge.
Vivix. I think what Simu needs to do is hire a full time website manager or whatever the official job title is. The HJ site isn't that good and the FAQ hasn't been updated in over a year. It still says that the game is going to be released in 07. Well obviously that isn't happening. People still complain about the forums and Simu has said that they plan on upgrade the forums but they've said that for a while. So I wouldn't call the 750 spell an empty promise but more of a lack of updating the public. They need someone who's sole job is to make sure the info on all of their sites, GS, DR and HJ are all updated and correct. Someone who can also upgrade the forums.
The old saying still holds true. You only get one chance to make a first impression. For a lot of people, their first impression of Simu is not their games. It isn't GS or DR. It's their websites. Having a website that has inaccurate or outdated information will turn people off. Having a forum that is in need of an upgrade will turn people off. If someone who hasn't played their games looks at their sites and thinks they're sloppy, disorganized, amateurish etc. then what do you think they're going to think about the games?
I understand that Simu is a small company but someone there should still be able to find the time to work on the websites. They have all these volunteers working on the game why can't they find a volunteer to work on the sites.
Maybe they just need some outside perspective? Maybe they've been so engrossed with their products for so long that they lost touch with reality? I don't know but I just hope the this game and licensing out the engine nets them enough cash to turn from the disorganized mess they're in now into a major power player that is in touch with their players.
In case you couldn't tell from my previous posts...
Sorcerer - level 30 - 1996-1998 - Went Demonic
Sorcerer - level 50 - 1998-2000 - Rerolled (right before they announced the GS4 update no less...)
Sorcerer - level 74 - 2000-2007 - going strong : slow and steady - trying to get my rogue up in pick mastery currently...
Also currently have a 42 rogue, 19 empath, I've had every profession to level 25 at one point... and currently wish they would come out with a way to change your name...
If you have never played Gemstone3/DragonRealms or any of the other 4 games they develop then don't disrespect Simutronics commitment to gaming. Trust me when I say "Gemstone4" complexity and gameplay is 100 times far better than Newb games like WorldOfWarcraft. The only game's that came close to GS4/DR was EQ and AsheronCall.
Because the gameplay and charachter complexity is easier to establish in a MUD it will require even more effort to replicate it for an MMORPG game. If Hero's Journey is even half as complex as GS4/DR MUD game was then this MMORPG will blow all the other games outa the water!!!
Look at all the chump MMORPG games coming out in 2007, 'pirates of the carribean', 'LOTR', etc.... NONE OF THESE games will have an impact to the MMORPG genre. When HJ comes out, it'll become the next EQ that everyone's been waiting for! So if it comes out in 2008, its worth the wait.
I'd be interested to hear the OP expand on this, if he's still around.
I've played MMORPGs since EQ, but I never really did more than dabble lightly in MUDs. However, what I don't understand is how the "complexity and gameplay" of GS3/DR was superior to later games? I thought I understood, but then the OP mentioned EQ - EQ was an EXTREMELY simplistic, item-dependent game with all the gameplay depth of a fish-pond. WoW has far more "complex" and "deep" gameplay, though that's not saying much, I admit.
So what was it that the Gemstone and Dragonrealms games had over modern games? More diversity of play styles? More different ways to succeed? More workable strategies?
I'd like a really deep, interesting, role-playing-oriented MMORPG. EQ was not deep or interesting, merely grindy, extensive, and poorly documented (for a time). Heroes Journey looks great, and sounds like ti will be great, but I'd really like to know more about what was great about previous games by Simutronics - I'm sure they were great, I'd just like to know how.
In grammer school my friends had a saying, "Dude, if you have to ask, you'll never know" I think that applies here. You just have to experience it. But if you are asking, and I am trying to explain it...
Ok well I tried to write it out 4 different ways, and I can't. Gemstone can be very boring - it's not the end-all and be-all of a game - and Simutronics is, at times, so frustrating it is difficult to remember why I pay each month to be treated the way I am. But that being said, the game is just immersive. There's no two ways around it: It is complex, it is detailed, and it is immersive in every aspect.
My sorcerer has 5 or 6 ways he can hunt, some of them are downright cool and can take a bit of time to prepare for (necromancy for example). Hunts don't last too long because you don't earn direct XP, you are forced back to town every couple hours to get boxes picked or drop of loot & silver. You can't hold a million items without concequences. You actually have a feeling of going out into the wilds to go on a HUNT, you're not just farming XP. You have concequences to every action - You can kill that noob that's pissing you off, but you may have to answer to local law, GMs, or even their 'big sister' capped rogue that doesn't think you deserve your left leg anymore.
Show me another game that you can have a critter you animated after its death, pick up the leg of its brother and beat it to death with its own leg. That's just flippin cool. There are no other games that are that detailed that I've seen.
In grammer school my friends had a saying, "Dude, if you have to ask, you'll never know" I think that applies here. You just have to experience it. But if you are asking, and I am trying to explain it... Ok well I tried to write it out 4 different ways, and I can't. Gemstone can be very boring - it's not the end-all and be-all of a game - and Simutronics is, at times, so frustrating it is difficult to remember why I pay each month to be treated the way I am. But that being said, the game is just immersive. There's no two ways around it: It is complex, it is detailed, and it is immersive in every aspect. My sorcerer has 5 or 6 ways he can hunt, some of them are downright cool and can take a bit of time to prepare for (necromancy for example). Hunts don't last too long because you don't earn direct XP, you are forced back to town every couple hours to get boxes picked or drop of loot & silver. You can't hold a million items without concequences. You actually have a feeling of going out into the wilds to go on a HUNT, you're not just farming XP. You have concequences to every action - You can kill that noob that's pissing you off, but you may have to answer to local law, GMs, or even their 'big sister' capped rogue that doesn't think you deserve your left leg anymore.
Show me another game that you can have a critter you animated after its death, pick up the leg of its brother and beat it to death with its own leg. That's just flippin cool. There are no other games that are that detailed that I've seen.
To elaborate on that, you can attack anyone anywhere. If you do it outside of a town then it's ok but if you do it inside a town then it's off to the slammer and then you have to go in front of a judge for a quick trial. Some lockboxes have traps on them that have to be disarmed first. If you fail to disarm a trap in town and it ends up hurting someone else then it's off to the slammer as well.
There are also a lot of fun events that occur. They range from live merchant events where you can buy all sorts of nice items from weapons and armor to fluff type items for the role players, to GM auctions to invasions to other events that have a lasting impact on the world. The real time events in other games don't come close to what happens in Gemstone. I think the best part of it is the role playing that actually goes on even during invasions. You don't have any out of character chatter to ruin the immersion. It's an experience that I have yet to find in any of these big name MMORPG's.
As for character development. Your character can train in every skill with the exception of certain magic circles. So if you want to be a cleric then you can still learn how to unlock boxes or pick boxes. Or if you wanted to be a warrior then you could still learn a few magic spells. It will cost more to train in skills that don't fit your profession but you can still train in them nonetheless. A lot of games don't offer that flexibility.
It's far from a perfect game but it's still the best MMORPG that I've ever played. It won't appeal to the players that aren't into true role playing but if you enjoy that kind of experience then the roleplay in Gemstone is second to none.
The success or failure of HJ will depend solely on whether or not simu has learned from their past mistakes and the mistakes of others. I played Gemstone III and IV from the time i was around 12 till 16 and then on and off intill i was 21. I've had a LOT of experience with simu staff. Simu currently blames their loss of customers in the past on new 3d games comming out. That just wasn't the case. They didn't lose customers to EQ and the like on it's own. They had horrible customer support and nosey GM's. While I agree that GM involvement makes the world more dynamic, the way simu carried it out bordered on harassment. No one likes carrying on a conversation and suddenly being silenced for an hour by a GM because you accidentally said "WTF". Or, my personal favorite, having a discussion about an encounter with a gm or about the game with friends and being suddenly struck down by lightning because you said something negative (not vulgar) about the GM. Also, in Gemstone 4 it takes 5+ YEARS of 40+ hours a week of playing to get to max level. If they have the XP system at the same speed in HJ they're not going to keep any subscribers.
Mostly however, they lost 80% of their player base because of horrid customer service. No one likes logging in to the game and seeing that all their items had been stolen by a logger or something and having the gm say it would be "impossible" to get it back. Then, 2 years down the road they say, "HEY! we can give you your stuff back, we were lieing... it was possible... but now it's gonna cost you 250 dollars for me to copy/paste some text. I'm very wary about ever giving simu any money again.
Hope this isn't "hijacking" the thread, but I've never played any Simu games, ever. Went to their site though, but it gives the appearance that they still charge a fee for a text game? Not interested, if that's the case. It was one thing 15 years ago on GEnie or Compuserve, but not now.
Anyway... anyone have a recommendation for what they'd consider the "best" or most Simu-like text/adventure/MUD that I could check into to kinda give me a feel for what made you guys so excited for the Simu games back in their day?
do the 1 month free trial. It will give you all the feel you need. Being that there is no real "endgame" and the max level is 100 and takes 5-10 years to reach. It's not a game you'll be playing in the long term. just do the trial.
The success or failure of HJ will depend solely on whether or not simu has learned from their past mistakes and the mistakes of others. I played Gemstone III and IV from the time i was around 12 till 16 and then on and off intill i was 21. I've had a LOT of experience with simu staff. Simu currently blames their loss of customers in the past on new 3d games comming out. That just wasn't the case. They didn't lose customers to EQ and the like on it's own. They had horrible customer support and nosey GM's. While I agree that GM involvement makes the world more dynamic, the way simu carried it out bordered on harassment. No one likes carrying on a conversation and suddenly being silenced for an hour by a GM because you accidentally said "WTF". Or, my personal favorite, having a discussion about an encounter with a gm or about the game with friends and being suddenly struck down by lightning because you said something negative (not vulgar) about the GM. Also, in Gemstone 4 it takes 5+ YEARS of 40+ hours a week of playing to get to max level. If they have the XP system at the same speed in HJ they're not going to keep any subscribers. Mostly however, they lost 80% of their player base because of horrid customer service. No one likes logging in to the game and seeing that all their items had been stolen by a logger or something and having the gm say it would be "impossible" to get it back. Then, 2 years down the road they say, "HEY! we can give you your stuff back, we were lieing... it was possible... but now it's gonna cost you 250 dollars for me to copy/paste some text. I'm very wary about ever giving simu any money again.
Gemstone isn't your average game. It has a heavy emphasis on roleplaying. WTF is clearly an out of character term and you should have learned that in the tutorial that they have. As for the leveling system, again there is a heavy emphasis in the roleplaying aspect. They don't want a world full of power levelers so the system they have for that game is perfect for the player base that they want because it weeds out the power gamers. As for having your items stolen by a logger. I don't know exactly what you mean unless you gave your account info to someone and that's who took your items. I never had anyone hack into my account nor have I ever heard of anyone having their account hacked into. And as for the last part, I've never heard about that either. Never have I heard about someone having to pay any money, let alone that much to get an item back. It just sounds to me like sour grapes based on an game that isn't to your liking.
[quote]Gemstone isn't your average game. It has a heavy emphasis on roleplaying. WTF is clearly an out of character term and you should have learned that in the tutorial that they have. As for the leveling system, again there is a heavy emphasis in the roleplaying aspect. They don't want a world full of power levelers so the system they have for that game is perfect for the player base that they want because it weeds out the power gamers. As for having your items stolen by a logger. I don't know exactly what you mean unless you gave your account info to someone and that's who took your items. I never had anyone hack into my account nor have I ever heard of anyone having their account hacked into. And as for the last part, I've never heard about that either. Never have I heard about someone having to pay any money, let alone that much to get an item back. It just sounds to me like sour grapes based on an game that isn't to your liking.[/quote]
I'm aware that WTF is out of character (hense the word "accidentally") It's obvious that you're a simu fan boy. There were hundreds of people who lost items on their characters due to key loggers back in the prime days of gemstone 3. Simu just denied it all as a reason to do nothing. The combination of people losing things that took years to get, mixed with the lack of effort on the part of simu lead to a mass exodus from the game. As far as a game that wasn't to my liking, I played it steadily for over 3 years. AND ALL of that work and effort went to waste from one virus from a fellow player or hacker/ebayer. It doesn't surprise me that you havn't been hacked but i also find it very unlikely that you had an account back when a million silver was worth 50 dollars on ebay.
As far as you not hearing anything about paying to get items restored, perhaps you should do a little research before you open your mouth. Simu is OPENLY selling the ability to reclaim old characters, INCLUDING situations like mine where I deleted the character after losing countless millions worth of items and money. I was told it would be Impossible to restore my items at the time, but now... years later.... simu is suddenly able to restore my character with items intact for a fee of 250 dollars. They had horrible customer service years ago which caused most of their player base to quit, and now that they need money.. they're suddenly willing to help... for a price.
I had an account in good standing for 3+ years and when I had my password stolen I tried with several gm's and the simu main office to get my items back. The reply I got was... we're sorry you wasted 3 years of your life with our game, better luck next time. They wouldn't even give me back the half of my items that were registered with the town registrar or whatever. The npc put in place SPECIFICALLY to aid in regaining lost items of great value. Simu service was crap then, I hope they learn from it before they release HJ.
I feel for you but it's that way in every game. Every game gives you a warning that if you lose items then you're not getting them back. If your account was hacked into then that's on you. It's the same way in WoW or any other MMO. Now the site says that they can retrieve characters from as early as March of 2000. So if that's when your account got hacked into then I'm sorry. I played Gemstone in 1999 and 2000 as well(and then on and off again after that) and again, my account never got hacked into but I knew back then that if my items were lost then I wasn't getting them back. It wasn't some big secret. If you had characters or items that were lost before March of 2000 well guess what. You still can't get your stuff back even now so it's unfair to hold that against Simu. They couldn't restore your stuff then and they still can't now. I don't know exactly when you had your problems but again, I played from 1999-2000 regularly and then on and off again after that and I never got a virus.
Now as to why they're allowing you to retrieve characters now. If I remember correctly, they didn't have the technology to restore characters or items back then. If they did then why wouldn't they have charged money then to allow you to do so? If they had that capability all this time and were just holding out for when they needed money then why not allow someone to get stuff back from as far back as the day the game launched? They didn't have the capability until they upgraded all of their equipment, including the game engine which I believe was in 2004. And even now they can now only go back so far to restore stuff.
Again, I'm sorry you had this problem but it's not Simu's fault your virus protection wasn't up to par. Account security is your responsibilty. The disclaimer was there when you played.
sorry but you're wrong. WOW, along with almost every other game on the market restores all losses from hacking. Usually within 7 business days. Why? because they acknowledge that a virus/keylogger can be installed on your computer very simply with the simple click of a link. Back in those years, it was far easier for the account predator than it was for the victim. Now you have wonderful tools like Firefox (much better security and internet explorer). As well as noscript addons and things like that. These types of things hardly existed at the time this was going on with gemstone. To someone with an advanced knowledge of the internet and it's workings at the time, it was VERY easy to steal information from someone else's computer. However, rather and acknowledge this, and help their members, simu decided to deny that it could happen, and blame the user for giving out their password. Which I NEVER did.
As far as technology goes, are you kidding me? Can you really be that delusional? It's a damn mud. The entire lively-hood of the company rested on having backups uppon backups of the information. It was all text based so they could store more than enough saves of all exsisting characters at the time for a very minimal cost. If they lost that information it would have meant the end for simu. Simu always openly admited to being able to track each and everything that happened in their game at all times. Each and every word that was ever said, every transaction that was ever made between characters was saved automatically.
Finally, as far as them refusing to do it then, but being willing to do it now. It's because then they had tons of people paying 40 dollars a month or more for premium service. Now, they're struggling with few active subscribers, as well as trying to produce a competitive MMO.
The difference between what they could do now, and what they could do then, all comes to one point. They need money, and they're selling better service for a price. It's sad to say the least.
And, sorry to shoot down another one of your comments. It wasn't a lack of technology on the 1999-2000 thing either. The reason they can't restore data from before that is because they lost it in some sort of accident/failure. This information was given to me by the customer service at Simu. It had nothing to do with the technology then or now, they simply lost the old data somehow. Meaning, that anything that happened to your character before then could not be undone, as they only had records from 2000 onward. I got the impression it was from an old tape server or something burning up.
but...cant almost all 'saves' for all games nowadays...for all toons and all accounts, for all games...except for text conversations(even though this would still be a teeny tiny number of data space)....can all fit on 1 10gig HD>?
and yes..this means all the saves for Wow's 9 million subscibers worldwide?
hehe
no?
------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> --------------------------- <insert witty anecdote here> <political/religious agenda here>
I personally never had issues with any Simu GMs or customer service.
I had my character on a friend's account a long time ago, but someone else knew the password (I didn't know this). They got onto the accound and sold her shadowsilk cloak. After I found out, a few minutes with a GM cleared it all up, they found the person it was sold or given to and she gave it back to me. I don't know if they found the person who took it originally, or if they replaced whatever the girl had bought it for..
And before you say or think "oh but you're a GM too", this was well before I began working on HJ. I think it was about three years ago.
I'm not saying it didn't happen in the past, or still doesn't. I just haven't seen it first hand. I do know that I wouldn't stand for it in HJ.
I had my DR account hacked into. Fortunatley, I caught it very shortly after it happened. Someone used a program to constantly try password combos until it firgured it out. I only used a 4 character password, something I definitely learned to never do again.
The GMs were very helpful. It took some time, about a day or two, but they found out what happened and after a bit of a wait, they returned everything. They only wanted to make sure it was legit, not someone trying to con them out of more loot.
About a year later, I became a Game Host. Simu is very serious about how their players are treated and as a GH, I was reviewed often to make sure I handled players with respect and did my utmost to make their happy. This aspect doesn't get enough press in my opinion.
Is Simu perfect? No. I left the Game Host program under a bit of protest because we had essentially become stenographers. We were basically reduced to only taking the complaint and then passing it on, like a receptionist. We were no longer allowed to actually help solve the situations. I joined to help, not be a note taker.
Still, I know why they changed the policy. Game Hosts are volunteers. Game Masters, while still volunteers, are true officials of Simu, while we were not and anything we said could be misconstruded by a player as fact, when we actually didn't have all the information that GMs did. This caused issues for some players, so Game Hosts responsibilities were severely cut back.
All in all though, DR was the best roleplaying game ever, graphical or text. Their combat system and health system were awesome. Their lore for the game was very rich and immersive. The game was easy to pick up and hard to master, something Blizzard strives for.
My only potential complaint for HJ is they have no plans to have a roleplaying server. They really should as this is one of their current games major strengths.
Heck, I still have my DR account and still poke my head in from time to time to just say 'Hail'!
My experiences with GMs, billing and customer service were almost all professional and courteous; most were even friendly. I'm sure that experiences vary for others but I have nothing but good things to say in that area.
One of my best examples:
I was doing afk non-combat skills in an out of the way place in DR (Steel Claw Clan had a hidden spot where you could work climbing and other skills for a few ranks). Two players came along, killed my character and took his loot. This was before the whole uproar and rules were levied against afk scripting - I was against afk scripting but I'll generally do what it takes to stay competitive if I want to play a game at all.
I chalked it up to a bad day and sucked up the loss (a lot of expensive fest gear that I only moderately cared about because the flashiest gear in that game was all fluff in those days) and thought about setting up a "you are dead" check in my script. This was before scripting in DR was really an art form like it is today.
2 days later I got an email from a GM (forgot who it was dammit, name started with a Z and it wasn't Zoha) that they had locked out the perpetrators and all of my things were delivered to me in a bag. The email advised to do my afk skill gains in a more out-of-the-way spot... Again, this was before the policy against afk scripting.
That is one example. It also illustrates that there have always been jerks in the DR player community. I tend to believe that most of the noisy people with bad experiences have instigated them and probably deserved what they got if not more. I will always give Simu the benefit of doubt in their favor there.
My experiences with GMs, billing and customer service were almost all professional and courteous; most were even friendly. I'm sure that experiences vary for others but I have nothing but good things to say in that area. One of my best examples: I was doing afk non-combat skills in an out of the way place in DR (Steel Claw Clan had a hidden spot where you could work climbing and other skills for a few ranks). Two players came along, killed my character and took his loot. This was before the whole uproar and rules were levied against afk scripting - I was against afk scripting but I'll generally do what it takes to stay competitive if I want to play a game at all. I chalked it up to a bad day and sucked up the loss (a lot of expensive fest gear that I only moderately cared about because the flashiest gear in that game was all fluff in those days) and thought about setting up a "you are dead" check in my script. This was before scripting in DR was really an art form like it is today. 2 days later I got an email from a GM (forgot who it was dammit, name started with a Z and it wasn't Zoha) that they had locked out the perpetrators and all of my things were delivered to me in a bag. The email advised to do my afk skill gains in a more out-of-the-way spot... Again, this was before the policy against afk scripting. That is one example. It also illustrates that there have always been jerks in the DR player community. I tend to believe that most of the noisy people with bad experiences have instigated them and probably deserved what they got if not more. I will always give Simu the benefit of doubt in their favor there.
Playing before scripting was way, way back in the glory days of DR before the "policy" was put into place. After playing simu games for 13 years (DR for 10 years) I am completely finished with any Simu product.
The games really are fun to play and they have a great community, but its the company that has ruined the game with policies and and a huge lack of bug fixes, kept promises, and updates.
You really do get what you pay for and that is why Simu hires volunteers to do the bulk of their work. With people paying between 15-80$ a month for 1991 technology they could actually hire and pay programmers to work on the games. Since they use volunteers, anything that is "a work in progress" may or may not actually ever make it into the game because the GM doing the coding quits because while doing all the coding for a system plus having to be online a certain amount of time, they also need to eat and sleep which means their paying jobs come first.
In essence, the Simu hired volunteers are running and programming the game as a hobby. Its a leisure time activity that they enjoy doing and as such has the same priority.
If you are looking for a free MUD with depth then check out www.ironrealms.com
As a player, I've had way too many positive experiences with Simutronics to list. I was a player of their games for years before becoming a GM, and even now, the service is still top notch when I have issues in Gemstone.
I only hope when HJ rolls around I can live up to the Gemstone GMs level of service and dedication. They certainly set a high bar!
Comments
Let me be the first to say I have no interest in A WALK IN THE PARK, so let me be the first to say a Dragonrealms or Gemstone in 3D at the level those two MUDs are now would be beyond my wildest dreams.
SO thats one vote that totally disagrees with you !!
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
It doesn't really disagree with me. I said in the second paragraph that Gemstone is incredibly complex. It has a rich history, great gameplay, many options, and an amazing RP atmosphere. I play it for these reasons. Any MMO with as many diverse options as GS or DR I would play forever.
I DO however, dislike the disorganized feel and unfinished quality of Gemstone. The incomplete nature of the game to promote future development is one thing, but dangling it in front of our faces and telling us that things are being worked on that clearly aren't just to string your loyal fan-base along is just mean and happens because of a disorganized company philosophy.
We have to remember that a lot of the full time staff at Simu is focusing their efforts on HJ and have been for several years now. I don't think the problem is disorganization, I think it's just a lack of employees. They're still a small company. Some of the people, like Melissa Meyer have left the company and moved on to other things and we have no idea who they have found to replace those people. So when you start off small and get even smaller then it's difficult to get everything done that needs to get done. I believe that Simu has already mentioned that their priority is HJ and that GS and DR may suffer because of that. So we shouldn't be surprised if projects in those games are put on hold for a while. Hopefully after HJ is up and running, they can get some more people on their full time staff and thus have a more spread out effort that can focus on all of their games. But right now their focus is on HJ. Even with all of the things that are unfinished in GS and DR they are still much more enjoyable that any graphics based MMO that I've played. If and when the projects are finished, those games will be that much better.
That was one of my main beefs. It seemed to me as a player that Simutronics spent too much time on new and interesting things, and not enough on those things that "the players cared about". When I became a GM it kind of opened my eyes to some of the goings on behind the screen. Some of the players were incredibly well informed about the inner workings of the game, and anything that GM managed to do that wasn't quite up to snuff was eviscerated on the boards. What this meant was that things like spells, and new ares were huge undertakings. They had to be scripted carefully, and then slipped into older scripts that in some cases were not easily adapted. There were some things that GMs wanted to do, that just plain were not practical when implemented.
Melissa did a very good job trying to predict the things the GMs would work on each year, and each year everything on the list got addressed. Sometimes (depending on the complexity) the designwork just didn't get done due to alot of different reasons. The 750 spell is being used as an example. It was supposed to be "Major demonic summoning", and was supposed to be a level 50 spell. When Banthis first considered it, I'd be willing to bet that he never even considered anyone would make it to 160th level or higher, and expected a very few people to be able to cast the spell that he originally proposed. In that game world, demons were pretty much the ultimate opponent, they just did utter nasty things to the world itself.
Once the levels of the people reached those astronomical levels, you could no longer put that kind of power into a spell like that. BUT, the sorcerors were all hot to trot about it, and really wanted it, to the point the players of those sorcerors still hold grudges against the company. I played a sorceror named Sepip for a long time, he was married in game to a lovely sorceress named Alisanne. Her feelings that the company was toying with her as a customer was a large reason we both left that game. I'm not sure that the company as a unit ever managed to explain their reasoning to the players of sorcerors. The toughest thing about it though was the company stopped promising it back in 99ish(?) when they realized how much work it would take and how badly the game balance would be skewed, but the players kept it alive because they really wanted it. As you can see by a couple previous posts, players who don't even play the game anymore are still wanting that spell.
By the way, I signed an NDA way back when, so make sure that you understand that what I just said is my opinion, and suppositions. I have never had a conversation with any of the main designers about the 750 spell, and if I had, I would not post about it here.
What I am hoping for Hero's Journey is that the creative talent the company has, can take their time and design a world that has everything linked together and all of the main pieces in place at launch. The people in that company are some of the most creative people I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with.
A situation that I dealt with in my real job describes Simutronics so well it is scary. I work as a design engineer for a large defense company and early in my career we had a group of customers in for a presentation. I was in my office when one of the customers left the meeting, and entered the conference room across from me, and then scaled his briefcase against the wall. Being an idiot and too dumb to just let him cool off, I went in and talked to him. After about 20 minutes of listening to him just rant, I finally figured out why he was so mad. There was a piece of the design that both companies were working on, and he was in charge of that piece. He had just watched a presentation that he thought removed his half from the design and replaced it with something we designed. After I sat with him, went through the design and explaned that the presentation seemed to be misleading, we were not in fact designing his piece out, he cooled off enough to ask why we couldn't have just said that.
I told him that we had some of the brightest designers in the world. As a company we could design almost anything we were asked to do, and that there were people in that company that lost me after about the third word. We had people that lived and breathed these designs, but if you were to ask them to explain themselves it was like pulling teeth. We were a company of eggheads that were damned good designers, but not real good at customer relations or explaining ourselves. He laughed and told me that was the best description of the company I work for he had ever heard. He still stops in to see me when he is in our area.
That is kind of how I see Simutronics. They are damned good at what they do, but they need to work at the customer side of things a little bit.
PinTBC
Pin,
Great post. And I agree with you almost completely. But I have to point out, as this illustrates both your point about the "eggheads," as you affectionately describe some of the employees at Simu, who still have much to learn about customer service, and the point I made in a previous post, about 750 ... drum roll please ...
750 · Demonic Control
Not yet implemented
Duration: Variable
Type: Attack
This spell will allow the caster to summon specific, unique demons to (hopefully) do the caster's bidding. Woe to the caster who loses control of this type of demon. The immediate effects would most likely include something extremely unpleasant.
The quote above was taken directly from their website a few minutes ago. As near as I can tell, this an almost identical name (I think it was Demonic Summoning ... actually, I can't remember, but something like that). And now it's called Demonic Control. But essentially, the description of the spell hasn't changed. If it has the change has been minor, indeed.
At any rate, please don't mistake this for a rant. But, I couldn't resist. If I recall correctly, I started playing GS3 in 94/95 (when AOL was hourly). So, 14-15 years this spell has been carrotishly dangled before the consumer?
Gotta love em. And I do. As I've grown older, I see the passion Simutronic's volunteers have for the games they create and appreciate that passion much more than what hasn't been implemented.
That said, I do think the false promises are and continue to be fraudulent. Legally actionable? I have no idea. But my definition of fraud doesn't have to be the same as Uncle Sam's. But at the very least, it must be considered a questionable ethics issue -- to advertise a product for over a decade, produce, at times, "target" release dates (and no, I can't remember any of them, but I'm sure they were never more specific than saying 'sometime in the year ...') and then never release the product.
BUT, having said all that, IF they can bring some of that GS/DR complexity, richness to detail, customization that exists in their current products, then they'll have a hit of some sort on its hand. (Something EVE-like in the subscriber base, most likely).
But I must say, they'd better deliver something truly unique. The market is glutted, as we all know, with EQ/WoW knockoffs. I'd hate to see this become another, sadly lost in the shuffle.
Ironically, I'd take another batch of empty promises, missed releases, questionable design decisions, etc. if it meant I could play, graphically, GS/DR. I certainly don't think they'll manage that level of complexity. I don't think they'll come close. But I"m hoping they'll surprise me. I won't write them off.
I really look toward the future, 5-10 years from now. It will be fascinating to watch as the MMO genre develops. I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon. Despite the inevitable periods of stagnancy. Each new game brings us a baby step closer to that nirvana so many people hope for -- to jack in, matrix style, and live where and how we want -- we just need the tools, the power of quantum computing/molecular computing, true AI and nanotechnology, to give developers a not so gentle nudge.
After all, The Singularity is Near.
Google it.
Peace.
The Singularity is Near ...
Vivix. I think what Simu needs to do is hire a full time website manager or whatever the official job title is. The HJ site isn't that good and the FAQ hasn't been updated in over a year. It still says that the game is going to be released in 07. Well obviously that isn't happening. People still complain about the forums and Simu has said that they plan on upgrade the forums but they've said that for a while. So I wouldn't call the 750 spell an empty promise but more of a lack of updating the public. They need someone who's sole job is to make sure the info on all of their sites, GS, DR and HJ are all updated and correct. Someone who can also upgrade the forums.
The old saying still holds true. You only get one chance to make a first impression. For a lot of people, their first impression of Simu is not their games. It isn't GS or DR. It's their websites. Having a website that has inaccurate or outdated information will turn people off. Having a forum that is in need of an upgrade will turn people off. If someone who hasn't played their games looks at their sites and thinks they're sloppy, disorganized, amateurish etc. then what do you think they're going to think about the games?
I understand that Simu is a small company but someone there should still be able to find the time to work on the websites. They have all these volunteers working on the game why can't they find a volunteer to work on the sites.
Maybe they just need some outside perspective? Maybe they've been so engrossed with their products for so long that they lost touch with reality? I don't know but I just hope the this game and licensing out the engine nets them enough cash to turn from the disorganized mess they're in now into a major power player that is in touch with their players.
In case you couldn't tell from my previous posts...
Sorcerer - level 30 - 1996-1998 - Went Demonic
Sorcerer - level 50 - 1998-2000 - Rerolled (right before they announced the GS4 update no less...)
Sorcerer - level 74 - 2000-2007 - going strong : slow and steady - trying to get my rogue up in pick mastery currently...
Also currently have a 42 rogue, 19 empath, I've had every profession to level 25 at one point... and currently wish they would come out with a way to change your name...
I've played MMORPGs since EQ, but I never really did more than dabble lightly in MUDs. However, what I don't understand is how the "complexity and gameplay" of GS3/DR was superior to later games? I thought I understood, but then the OP mentioned EQ - EQ was an EXTREMELY simplistic, item-dependent game with all the gameplay depth of a fish-pond. WoW has far more "complex" and "deep" gameplay, though that's not saying much, I admit.
So what was it that the Gemstone and Dragonrealms games had over modern games? More diversity of play styles? More different ways to succeed? More workable strategies?
I'd like a really deep, interesting, role-playing-oriented MMORPG. EQ was not deep or interesting, merely grindy, extensive, and poorly documented (for a time). Heroes Journey looks great, and sounds like ti will be great, but I'd really like to know more about what was great about previous games by Simutronics - I'm sure they were great, I'd just like to know how.
In grammer school my friends had a saying, "Dude, if you have to ask, you'll never know" I think that applies here. You just have to experience it. But if you are asking, and I am trying to explain it...
Ok well I tried to write it out 4 different ways, and I can't. Gemstone can be very boring - it's not the end-all and be-all of a game - and Simutronics is, at times, so frustrating it is difficult to remember why I pay each month to be treated the way I am. But that being said, the game is just immersive. There's no two ways around it: It is complex, it is detailed, and it is immersive in every aspect.
My sorcerer has 5 or 6 ways he can hunt, some of them are downright cool and can take a bit of time to prepare for (necromancy for example). Hunts don't last too long because you don't earn direct XP, you are forced back to town every couple hours to get boxes picked or drop of loot & silver. You can't hold a million items without concequences. You actually have a feeling of going out into the wilds to go on a HUNT, you're not just farming XP. You have concequences to every action - You can kill that noob that's pissing you off, but you may have to answer to local law, GMs, or even their 'big sister' capped rogue that doesn't think you deserve your left leg anymore.
Show me another game that you can have a critter you animated after its death, pick up the leg of its brother and beat it to death with its own leg. That's just flippin cool. There are no other games that are that detailed that I've seen.
There are also a lot of fun events that occur. They range from live merchant events where you can buy all sorts of nice items from weapons and armor to fluff type items for the role players, to GM auctions to invasions to other events that have a lasting impact on the world. The real time events in other games don't come close to what happens in Gemstone. I think the best part of it is the role playing that actually goes on even during invasions. You don't have any out of character chatter to ruin the immersion. It's an experience that I have yet to find in any of these big name MMORPG's.
As for character development. Your character can train in every skill with the exception of certain magic circles. So if you want to be a cleric then you can still learn how to unlock boxes or pick boxes. Or if you wanted to be a warrior then you could still learn a few magic spells. It will cost more to train in skills that don't fit your profession but you can still train in them nonetheless. A lot of games don't offer that flexibility.
It's far from a perfect game but it's still the best MMORPG that I've ever played. It won't appeal to the players that aren't into true role playing but if you enjoy that kind of experience then the roleplay in Gemstone is second to none.
The success or failure of HJ will depend solely on whether or not simu has learned from their past mistakes and the mistakes of others. I played Gemstone III and IV from the time i was around 12 till 16 and then on and off intill i was 21. I've had a LOT of experience with simu staff. Simu currently blames their loss of customers in the past on new 3d games comming out. That just wasn't the case. They didn't lose customers to EQ and the like on it's own. They had horrible customer support and nosey GM's. While I agree that GM involvement makes the world more dynamic, the way simu carried it out bordered on harassment. No one likes carrying on a conversation and suddenly being silenced for an hour by a GM because you accidentally said "WTF". Or, my personal favorite, having a discussion about an encounter with a gm or about the game with friends and being suddenly struck down by lightning because you said something negative (not vulgar) about the GM. Also, in Gemstone 4 it takes 5+ YEARS of 40+ hours a week of playing to get to max level. If they have the XP system at the same speed in HJ they're not going to keep any subscribers.
Mostly however, they lost 80% of their player base because of horrid customer service. No one likes logging in to the game and seeing that all their items had been stolen by a logger or something and having the gm say it would be "impossible" to get it back. Then, 2 years down the road they say, "HEY! we can give you your stuff back, we were lieing... it was possible... but now it's gonna cost you 250 dollars for me to copy/paste some text. I'm very wary about ever giving simu any money again.
Hope this isn't "hijacking" the thread, but I've never played any Simu games, ever. Went to their site though, but it gives the appearance that they still charge a fee for a text game? Not interested, if that's the case. It was one thing 15 years ago on GEnie or Compuserve, but not now.
Anyway... anyone have a recommendation for what they'd consider the "best" or most Simu-like text/adventure/MUD that I could check into to kinda give me a feel for what made you guys so excited for the Simu games back in their day?
do the 1 month free trial. It will give you all the feel you need. Being that there is no real "endgame" and the max level is 100 and takes 5-10 years to reach. It's not a game you'll be playing in the long term. just do the trial.
Gemstone isn't your average game. It has a heavy emphasis on roleplaying. WTF is clearly an out of character term and you should have learned that in the tutorial that they have. As for the leveling system, again there is a heavy emphasis in the roleplaying aspect. They don't want a world full of power levelers so the system they have for that game is perfect for the player base that they want because it weeds out the power gamers. As for having your items stolen by a logger. I don't know exactly what you mean unless you gave your account info to someone and that's who took your items. I never had anyone hack into my account nor have I ever heard of anyone having their account hacked into. And as for the last part, I've never heard about that either. Never have I heard about someone having to pay any money, let alone that much to get an item back. It just sounds to me like sour grapes based on an game that isn't to your liking.
[quote]Gemstone isn't your average game. It has a heavy emphasis on roleplaying. WTF is clearly an out of character term and you should have learned that in the tutorial that they have. As for the leveling system, again there is a heavy emphasis in the roleplaying aspect. They don't want a world full of power levelers so the system they have for that game is perfect for the player base that they want because it weeds out the power gamers. As for having your items stolen by a logger. I don't know exactly what you mean unless you gave your account info to someone and that's who took your items. I never had anyone hack into my account nor have I ever heard of anyone having their account hacked into. And as for the last part, I've never heard about that either. Never have I heard about someone having to pay any money, let alone that much to get an item back. It just sounds to me like sour grapes based on an game that isn't to your liking.[/quote]
I'm aware that WTF is out of character (hense the word "accidentally") It's obvious that you're a simu fan boy. There were hundreds of people who lost items on their characters due to key loggers back in the prime days of gemstone 3. Simu just denied it all as a reason to do nothing. The combination of people losing things that took years to get, mixed with the lack of effort on the part of simu lead to a mass exodus from the game. As far as a game that wasn't to my liking, I played it steadily for over 3 years. AND ALL of that work and effort went to waste from one virus from a fellow player or hacker/ebayer. It doesn't surprise me that you havn't been hacked but i also find it very unlikely that you had an account back when a million silver was worth 50 dollars on ebay.
As far as you not hearing anything about paying to get items restored, perhaps you should do a little research before you open your mouth. Simu is OPENLY selling the ability to reclaim old characters, INCLUDING situations like mine where I deleted the character after losing countless millions worth of items and money. I was told it would be Impossible to restore my items at the time, but now... years later.... simu is suddenly able to restore my character with items intact for a fee of 250 dollars. They had horrible customer service years ago which caused most of their player base to quit, and now that they need money.. they're suddenly willing to help... for a price.
I had an account in good standing for 3+ years and when I had my password stolen I tried with several gm's and the simu main office to get my items back. The reply I got was... we're sorry you wasted 3 years of your life with our game, better luck next time. They wouldn't even give me back the half of my items that were registered with the town registrar or whatever. The npc put in place SPECIFICALLY to aid in regaining lost items of great value. Simu service was crap then, I hope they learn from it before they release HJ.
I feel for you but it's that way in every game. Every game gives you a warning that if you lose items then you're not getting them back. If your account was hacked into then that's on you. It's the same way in WoW or any other MMO. Now the site says that they can retrieve characters from as early as March of 2000. So if that's when your account got hacked into then I'm sorry. I played Gemstone in 1999 and 2000 as well(and then on and off again after that) and again, my account never got hacked into but I knew back then that if my items were lost then I wasn't getting them back. It wasn't some big secret. If you had characters or items that were lost before March of 2000 well guess what. You still can't get your stuff back even now so it's unfair to hold that against Simu. They couldn't restore your stuff then and they still can't now. I don't know exactly when you had your problems but again, I played from 1999-2000 regularly and then on and off again after that and I never got a virus.
Now as to why they're allowing you to retrieve characters now. If I remember correctly, they didn't have the technology to restore characters or items back then. If they did then why wouldn't they have charged money then to allow you to do so? If they had that capability all this time and were just holding out for when they needed money then why not allow someone to get stuff back from as far back as the day the game launched? They didn't have the capability until they upgraded all of their equipment, including the game engine which I believe was in 2004. And even now they can now only go back so far to restore stuff.
Again, I'm sorry you had this problem but it's not Simu's fault your virus protection wasn't up to par. Account security is your responsibilty. The disclaimer was there when you played.
sorry but you're wrong. WOW, along with almost every other game on the market restores all losses from hacking. Usually within 7 business days. Why? because they acknowledge that a virus/keylogger can be installed on your computer very simply with the simple click of a link. Back in those years, it was far easier for the account predator than it was for the victim. Now you have wonderful tools like Firefox (much better security and internet explorer). As well as noscript addons and things like that. These types of things hardly existed at the time this was going on with gemstone. To someone with an advanced knowledge of the internet and it's workings at the time, it was VERY easy to steal information from someone else's computer. However, rather and acknowledge this, and help their members, simu decided to deny that it could happen, and blame the user for giving out their password. Which I NEVER did.
As far as technology goes, are you kidding me? Can you really be that delusional? It's a damn mud. The entire lively-hood of the company rested on having backups uppon backups of the information. It was all text based so they could store more than enough saves of all exsisting characters at the time for a very minimal cost. If they lost that information it would have meant the end for simu. Simu always openly admited to being able to track each and everything that happened in their game at all times. Each and every word that was ever said, every transaction that was ever made between characters was saved automatically.
Finally, as far as them refusing to do it then, but being willing to do it now. It's because then they had tons of people paying 40 dollars a month or more for premium service. Now, they're struggling with few active subscribers, as well as trying to produce a competitive MMO.
The difference between what they could do now, and what they could do then, all comes to one point. They need money, and they're selling better service for a price. It's sad to say the least.
And, sorry to shoot down another one of your comments. It wasn't a lack of technology on the 1999-2000 thing either. The reason they can't restore data from before that is because they lost it in some sort of accident/failure. This information was given to me by the customer service at Simu. It had nothing to do with the technology then or now, they simply lost the old data somehow. Meaning, that anything that happened to your character before then could not be undone, as they only had records from 2000 onward. I got the impression it was from an old tape server or something burning up.
but...cant almost all 'saves' for all games nowadays...for all toons and all accounts, for all games...except for text conversations(even though this would still be a teeny tiny number of data space)....can all fit on 1 10gig HD>?
and yes..this means all the saves for Wow's 9 million subscibers worldwide?
hehe
no?
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
---------------------------
<insert witty anecdote here>
<political/religious agenda here>
I personally never had issues with any Simu GMs or customer service.
I had my character on a friend's account a long time ago, but someone else knew the password (I didn't know this). They got onto the accound and sold her shadowsilk cloak. After I found out, a few minutes with a GM cleared it all up, they found the person it was sold or given to and she gave it back to me. I don't know if they found the person who took it originally, or if they replaced whatever the girl had bought it for..
And before you say or think "oh but you're a GM too", this was well before I began working on HJ. I think it was about three years ago.
I'm not saying it didn't happen in the past, or still doesn't. I just haven't seen it first hand. I do know that I wouldn't stand for it in HJ.
What a real shame, playing one of Simus games for 2-3 months would give you a great insight into, real games with depth and design.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
DRaq: Well said I was just about to point the same out .. hehe
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I had my DR account hacked into. Fortunatley, I caught it very shortly after it happened. Someone used a program to constantly try password combos until it firgured it out. I only used a 4 character password, something I definitely learned to never do again.
The GMs were very helpful. It took some time, about a day or two, but they found out what happened and after a bit of a wait, they returned everything. They only wanted to make sure it was legit, not someone trying to con them out of more loot.
About a year later, I became a Game Host. Simu is very serious about how their players are treated and as a GH, I was reviewed often to make sure I handled players with respect and did my utmost to make their happy. This aspect doesn't get enough press in my opinion.
Is Simu perfect? No. I left the Game Host program under a bit of protest because we had essentially become stenographers. We were basically reduced to only taking the complaint and then passing it on, like a receptionist. We were no longer allowed to actually help solve the situations. I joined to help, not be a note taker.
Still, I know why they changed the policy. Game Hosts are volunteers. Game Masters, while still volunteers, are true officials of Simu, while we were not and anything we said could be misconstruded by a player as fact, when we actually didn't have all the information that GMs did. This caused issues for some players, so Game Hosts responsibilities were severely cut back.
All in all though, DR was the best roleplaying game ever, graphical or text. Their combat system and health system were awesome. Their lore for the game was very rich and immersive. The game was easy to pick up and hard to master, something Blizzard strives for.
My only potential complaint for HJ is they have no plans to have a roleplaying server. They really should as this is one of their current games major strengths.
Heck, I still have my DR account and still poke my head in from time to time to just say 'Hail'!
My experiences with GMs, billing and customer service were almost all professional and courteous; most were even friendly. I'm sure that experiences vary for others but I have nothing but good things to say in that area.
One of my best examples:
I was doing afk non-combat skills in an out of the way place in DR (Steel Claw Clan had a hidden spot where you could work climbing and other skills for a few ranks). Two players came along, killed my character and took his loot. This was before the whole uproar and rules were levied against afk scripting - I was against afk scripting but I'll generally do what it takes to stay competitive if I want to play a game at all.
I chalked it up to a bad day and sucked up the loss (a lot of expensive fest gear that I only moderately cared about because the flashiest gear in that game was all fluff in those days) and thought about setting up a "you are dead" check in my script. This was before scripting in DR was really an art form like it is today.
2 days later I got an email from a GM (forgot who it was dammit, name started with a Z and it wasn't Zoha) that they had locked out the perpetrators and all of my things were delivered to me in a bag. The email advised to do my afk skill gains in a more out-of-the-way spot... Again, this was before the policy against afk scripting.
That is one example. It also illustrates that there have always been jerks in the DR player community. I tend to believe that most of the noisy people with bad experiences have instigated them and probably deserved what they got if not more. I will always give Simu the benefit of doubt in their favor there.
The games really are fun to play and they have a great community, but its the company that has ruined the game with policies and and a huge lack of bug fixes, kept promises, and updates.
You really do get what you pay for and that is why Simu hires volunteers to do the bulk of their work. With people paying between 15-80$ a month for 1991 technology they could actually hire and pay programmers to work on the games. Since they use volunteers, anything that is "a work in progress" may or may not actually ever make it into the game because the GM doing the coding quits because while doing all the coding for a system plus having to be online a certain amount of time, they also need to eat and sleep which means their paying jobs come first.
In essence, the Simu hired volunteers are running and programming the game as a hobby. Its a leisure time activity that they enjoy doing and as such has the same priority.
If you are looking for a free MUD with depth then check out www.ironrealms.com
As a player, I've had way too many positive experiences with Simutronics to list. I was a player of their games for years before becoming a GM, and even now, the service is still top notch when I have issues in Gemstone.
I only hope when HJ rolls around I can live up to the Gemstone GMs level of service and dedication. They certainly set a high bar!