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tv-links.co.uk Shutdown, Sin arrested

poordecisionpoordecision Member Posts: 8
in Off-Topic Discussion

Here is a link to a petition to help get this guy out. http://www.petitiononline.com/21212594/petition.html I don't think the petition is important. I think money for a lawyer would help. If someone starts a PayPal account for donations to get this guy a lawyer please let me know. These kind of cases are going to be setting important precedents we should all care about.

Comments

  • SpathotanSpathotan Member Posts: 3,928

    I dont think giving the crooks at PayPal a bunch of money will help this guy. One bit. He owned and operated a website that was hosting illegally "owned" videos. Eventhough I visited the site a few times, I have no remorse for this guy, he chose to be a moron.

    "There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
    — Boba Fett

  • poordecisionpoordecision Member Posts: 8

    The reason this site ran so long, and why there are so many sites just like it, is because the exist in a grey area of legality. They don't host any content. Youtube, dailymotion, megavideo, etc... hosts the content. The only post links. If you think posting these links should be illegal, than that's fine. I just think we should be aware of the important cases that would shape the internet.

  • SpathotanSpathotan Member Posts: 3,928

     

     

    Originally posted by fredphelps


    The reason this site ran so long, and why there are so many sites just like it, is because the exist in a grey area of legality. They don't host any content. Youtube, dailymotion, megavideo, etc... hosts the content. The only post links. If you think posting these links should be illegal, than that's fine. I just think we should be aware of the important cases that would shape the internet.

    Oh I understand it falls into the "grey area", such as MMO emulators do. The problem with that site was it didnt link YouTube videos, it linked movies and tv shows that are owned by big corps, movies that which are/were in the theaters at the time, and/or not on DVD yet, such as Spiderman 3, Transformers was up there months ago, as well as Shrek 3 and Pirates 3, aka bootleg...fake....STOLEN. He is contributing to stealing material.

     

     

    So going by this guys reasoning as well as yours, it would be ok for me to go into a theater, tape a movie, go home and make 500 copies of it, put them in a store ran by myself, then send out fliers and mail advertising the store/movie. Same concept, different situation.

    The guys site was taken down and he was arrested because hes basically an accomplice.

    "There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
    — Boba Fett

  • VampirVampir Member Posts: 4,239

    Originally posted by fredphelps


    The reason this site ran so long, and why there are so many sites just like it, is because the exist in a grey area of legality. They don't host any content. Youtube, dailymotion, megavideo, etc... hosts the content. The only post links. If you think posting these links should be illegal, than that's fine. I just think we should be aware of the important cases that would shape the internet.
    grey i think not

    making a profit off copyrighted material has always been illegal if you dont have permission.

    this mythical "gray area" with regards to the internet. is by no means gray as long as the owner of the material can show damages.

    image

    98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.

  • poordecisionpoordecision Member Posts: 8


     
    So going by this guys reasoning as well as yours, it would be ok for me to go into a theater, tape a movie, go home and make 500 copies of it, put them in a store ran by myself, then send out fliers and mail advertising the store/movie. Same concept, different situation.
    The guys site was taken down and he was arrested because hes basically an accomplice.
     
      Well, if we're using your metaphor, he wouldn't be taping movies or running a store. Basically, he would be a guy who is just standing on a corner. People are walking down the street yelling, "Hey, is anyone showing movies around here?". He is a guy or the corner who says, "Sure, theres a place down the street." So what's important is whether he is an accomplice. If we going to try to use precedent from the physical world, it falls under complicity.  In the US, federal complicity statute, 18 U.S.C. 2, "(a) Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal. (b) Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the United States, is punishable as a principal."  So, I'm not a lawyer, but I think if we were taking precedent from the physical realm (because I think copyright falls under federal statutes) he would as an equal principal. So he would be just as liable and your right.

    What's really important here is how are these cases going to shape the internet. If the US was charging this guy could they really deem the internet under federal jurisdiction. What I'm really worried about is the slippery slope. If we can deem this guy as equally responsible, where does is end. If you keep going down this road your going to have to start attacking all the video hosting sites, then all the social networking sites and messengers (if this guys liable then me sending a message to a friend where to download or view something would make me just as liable). It means all internet communication will be under regulation. If all the hosting/messengers all liable they will want to protect themselves. If they are liable for all the communication on their sites then they will have to start screening all communication, and reporting anyone who mentions breaking the law.

    I REALIZE, this "slippery slope" is all speculation and a very reactionary poorly contructed arguement. But, you understand the idea. Cases like this are important because the precedents they set will determine the future of the internet. They're not busting down the doors of megavideo or dailymotion. They're going after a guy who won't be able to afford decent legal representation, and trying to make an example. Either way, I think he deserves a good lawyer because the results are going to affect everyone.

    If any lawyers want to post it would be greatly appreciated. I would be very excited if this post sparked a larger, more informed debate.

  • SpathotanSpathotan Member Posts: 3,928
    Originally posted by fredphelps


     

     
    So going by this guys reasoning as well as yours, it would be ok for me to go into a theater, tape a movie, go home and make 500 copies of it, put them in a store ran by myself, then send out fliers and mail advertising the store/movie. Same concept, different situation.
    The guys site was taken down and he was arrested because hes basically an accomplice.
     
      Well, if we're using your metaphor, he wouldn't be taping movies or running a store. Basically, he would be a guy who is just standing on a corner. People are walking down the street yelling, "Hey, is anyone showing movies around here?". He is a guy or the corner who says, "Sure, theres a place down the street." So what's important is whether he is an accomplice. If we going to try to use precedent from the physical world, it falls under complicity.  In the US, federal complicity statute, 18 U.S.C. 2, "(a) Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal. (b) Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the United States, is punishable as a principal."  So, I'm not a lawyer, but I think if we were taking precedent from the physical realm (because I think copyright falls under federal statutes) he would as an equal principal. So he would be just as liable and your right.

     

    What's really important here is how are these cases going to shape the internet. If the US was charging this guy could they really deem the internet under federal jurisdiction. What I'm really worried about is the slippery slope. If we can deem this guy as equally responsible, where does is end. If you keep going down this road your going to have to start attacking all the video hosting sites, then all the social networking sites and messengers (if this guys liable then me sending a message to a friend where to download or view something would make me just as liable). It means all internet communication will be under regulation. If all the hosting/messengers all liable they will want to protect themselves. If they are liable for all the communication on their sites then they will have to start screening all communication, and reporting anyone who mentions breaking the law.

    I REALIZE, this "slippery slope" is all speculation and a very reactionary poorly contructed arguement. But, you understand the idea. Cases like this are important because the precedents they set will determine the future of the internet. They're not busting down the doors of megavideo or dailymotion. They're going after a guy who won't be able to afford decent legal representation, and trying to make an example. Either way, I think he deserves a good lawyer because the results are going to affect everyone.

    If any lawyers want to post it would be greatly appreciated. I would be very excited if this post sparked a larger, more informed debate.

    One problem with your "reasoning" here. HES NOT IN THE US!!

    "There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
    — Boba Fett

  • KorususKorusus Member UncommonPosts: 831

    Originally posted by Vampir


     
    Originally posted by fredphelps


    The reason this site ran so long, and why there are so many sites just like it, is because the exist in a grey area of legality. They don't host any content. Youtube, dailymotion, megavideo, etc... hosts the content. The only post links. If you think posting these links should be illegal, than that's fine. I just think we should be aware of the important cases that would shape the internet.
    grey i think not

     

    making a profit off copyrighted material has always been illegal if you dont have permission.

    this mythical "gray area" with regards to the internet. is by no means gray as long as the owner of the material can show damages.

    The gray area is a legal matter, not a moral one.  It's obviously immoral.  But is it illegal?  Can you shut down a site and arrest its owner if you can't prove that he's done something illegal?

    The question is whether linking sites like this one can be covered by copyright laws (in this case copyright laws in the UK).  It will have to be decided in court.

    That said, I'm not signing a petition for the guy...this is called karma

    ----------
    Life sucks, buy a helmet.

  • GDMenaceGDMenace Member UncommonPosts: 156

    Originally posted by Vampir


     
    grey i think not
     
    making a profit off copyrighted material has always been illegal if you dont have permission.
    this mythical "gray area" with regards to the internet. is by no means gray as long as the owner of the material can show damages.



    But in a case of crime by proxy, how far can you extend the blame before it becomes unreasonable? He wasn't recording, reproducing, or reselling any of these movies or shows; he was just pointing people in the right direction.

     

    I know a guy who knows a guy who steals tires.

  • JackcoltJackcolt Member UncommonPosts: 2,170

    The perfect metaphor:

     

    It's the guy telling where people can buy crack, but he doesn't sell himself!(nor use in this case)

    Should that be illegal?

     

    Hell... they could have used to site to point out where the copyright infringement are located.

     

    image
    image

  • ViolentYViolentY Member Posts: 1,458

    Originally posted by Jackcolt


    The perfect metaphor:
     
    It's the guy telling where people can buy crack, but he doesn't sell himself!(nor use in this case)
    Should that be illegal?
     
    Hell... they could have used to site to point out where the copyright infringement are located.
     
    I wouldn't call that the "perfect metaphor," since what he is inherently distributing isn't illegal, whereas crack is illegal in all forms. It's just the means (i.e. not paying the original creators of the work) that he distributes it is under question.

    What I really want to know is, are they going to sue Google? I mean, he was just linking to sites that were doing the illegal stuff... in theory, couldn't Google?

    Almost the entire internet is a gray area.

    _____________________________________
    "Io rido, e rider mio non passa dentro;
    Io ardo, e l'arsion mia non par di fore."
    -Machiavelli

  • MR-BubblesMR-Bubbles Member Posts: 649

    Originally posted by Jackcolt


    The perfect metaphor:
     
    It's the guy telling where people can buy crack, but he doesn't sell himself!(nor use in this case)
    Should that be illegal?
     
    Hell... they could have used to site to point out where the copyright infringement are located.
     
    A better metaphore...

     

    It's the guy telling people in the pub the names of the cableguys who wil give you the names of the cableguys who can get you free cable for a small fee.

    The guy giving the names isant doing anything wrong [TV links] But the cableguys are the ones doing the wrong [Google and Youtube hosting these videos].

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII

    Currently Playing : EvE Online.

  • JackcoltJackcolt Member UncommonPosts: 2,170

    Even better! :

    It's the guy linking to sites hosting copyright infringing material!

     

    Oh wait....

    image
    image

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