I hate to say it, but 2 star wars MMO's will never exist at the same time. That would be Lucas arts competing against itself, and that is just stupid.
The bioware MMO will most likely be something like Baldur's gate online, or Neverwinter Nights online IF they are using an already established IP. If not it will probably be something completely new, and probably good because they are a great company.
I hate to say it, but 2 star wars MMO's will never exist at the same time. That would be Lucas arts competing against itself, and that is just stupid. The bioware MMO will most likely be something like Baldur's gate online, or Neverwinter Nights online IF they are using an already established IP. If not it will probably be something completely new, and probably good because they are a great company.
Food for thought. Ea handled Japan SWG servers, that means they have delt with both SoE and LAEC in the past with the SW license..Im not saying its true but something too think about. Bioware's past means nothing now that its EA's property...
Your argument for two coexsiting at the same time makes no sense. Eq and Eq2 both have had healthy sub bases and still generate SoE cash. Both share similar names and gameplay but one is newer and one isnt. Either you play the NGE or Both versions. Many play both Eq1 and 2 for varrious reasons. May be a small amount but im sure there are those that gladly play both.
Why is KOTOR being compared to SWG? Totally different timelines, environments, characters, stories... KOTOR has Jedi, Sith, Dark Jedi, force users, etc, etc. There is NO WAY you can make a Bioware MMO and not allow people to play as any of those classes. Stop thinking so SOE/SWG and start thinking KOTOR. Put the game in your cpu and refresh yourself, it's a completely different situation.
I'm a Star Wars fan and to me any Star Wars MMORPG should not be about one aspect of the Star Wars universe SWG started out great with that, then it became a jedi circle jerk, if the MMO that BioWare is making IS a Star Wars one it had better well remember what SWG was before the NGE and look at the success even with all the bugs before the NGE because if they release a strictly jedi game I might as well resubscribe to SWG because at least I have a lvl 90 Jedi their already and I can go play patty cake with all the other jedi's. So IMHO a KOTOR game is not the way to go they need to do something else because I'm not going from one jedi orgy to another because everyone loves big glowing sticks and if you want to know what part of Star Wars I want you needn't look further than my avatar. Jedi are a TINY part in the Star Wars universe, there are politics, wars between planets, constant threats from outside the outer rim, you name it, its there and all these games arent seeing it so IMO this game will flop and will be no better than the NGE if it is KOTOR. For instance How many people actually want to do some underground type stuff and actually smuggle? Or do some actual player bounty hunting on the people that smuggled or even if they killed another player for no reason? What about the whole Hutt underground network? or the other Undergrounds? I can keep going because this is something Ive thought about since the CU when things started to slide down hill actually it was probably Patch 9 and 10 when it started to slide down, Im so tired of this narrowmindedness when it comes to Star Wars its a huge universe with LOTS of history that people have expanded on over the years since the 70's. Its time to bring Star Wars into today and forth for the next generation or let it die now with all this narrowmindedness crap. Ive heard of rumors that the next guy that makes the movies wants to KILL off the darkside of the force how can you kill off a choice? Either understand what Star Wars is or leave it alone and let it fade into memory but DONT reduce it.
When SWG came out, it was pretty successful, but not wildly successful, and LA wanted wildly successful.
So, the solution, it was reasoned by the marketing braintrust at LA was that all our Jedi games sell well, what SWG needs is Jedi, and lots of them.
Well, now, here we are approaching the 2nd anniversary of the NGE, with insta-Jedi from the getgo, and what do you know, it seems that Jedi were NOT the key to SWG being wildly successful.
So what does this tell us?
That perhaps Jedi are NOT the be-all and end-all of Star Wars storytelling?
I suspect strongly that if KOTOR online, if there is to be such a thing, is NOT a smash hit, or fails to meaningfully echo KOTOR and KOTOR II but in an MMO enviornment, it may kill Star Wars forever as an MMO IP.
It's going to take more than just having your toon toss a saber around to make it successful. The gameplay is going to have to be able to stand up on its own without the bells and whistles of the Star Wars name.
That's the key. SOE had a chance to do that, and because they and their Neimodian partners at LA wanted their ROI right this kriffing second, and they failed to listen to beta testers who WANTED the game to be a smash hit but knew that if it went gold too early it would flop, they wound up with a legendary flop.
But they know better than their own customers what their customers want. Based on focus groups that, from all accounts, never played SWG.
Brilliant.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
When SWG came out, it was pretty successful, but not wildly successful, and LA wanted wildly successful. So, the solution, it was reasoned by the marketing braintrust at LA was that all our Jedi games sell well, what SWG needs is Jedi, and lots of them. Well, now, here we are approaching the 2nd anniversary of the NGE, with insta-Jedi from the getgo, and what do you know, it seems that Jedi were NOT the key to SWG being wildly successful. So what does this tell us? That perhaps Jedi are NOT the be-all and end-all of Star Wars storytelling? I suspect strongly that if KOTOR online, if there is to be such a thing, is NOT a smash hit, or fails to meaningfully echo KOTOR and KOTOR II but in an MMO enviornment, it may kill Star Wars forever as an MMO IP. It's going to take more than just having your toon toss a saber around to make it successful. The gameplay is going to have to be able to stand up on its own without the bells and whistles of the Star Wars name. That's the key. SOE had a chance to do that, and because they and their Neimodian partners at LA wanted their ROI right this kriffing second, and they failed to listen to beta testers who WANTED the game to be a smash hit but knew that if it went gold too early it would flop, they wound up with a legendary flop. But they know better than their own customers what their customers want. Based on focus groups that, from all accounts, never played SWG. Brilliant.
Exactly, if they are going to Try and make a Star Wars MMO they had better put some deep thought into it and actually think about it and do the research. Do you think they can make a decent game with in a year about a subject that has been RAGING for almost 40 and expect to satisfy the consumer? There is no way, and to be honest the story line alone would take almost 2-3 years to come up with to what you want all going on just on release day within the game if it is a Star Wars universe not to mention all the content later on that you plan on releasing for a Star Wars MMO. If they want to make a Great Star Wars MMO they had better hope to devote atleast 10-20 years of their life and not let it flop like SWG did in the long run. Hell Look how long UO has been going. Its not an easy thing to do to ask some one to devote that long of time but if Im paying for the game I dont want to be disappointed when I quit out of boredom, if anything I want to play till they decide they are done with the game and want to move on to different things or until I feel like I can quit on a good note because I would have done something for further players in the game. If they want to have a successful MMO they need to do something new and inventive not SWG:NGE on graphical steroids.
Star Wars is the absolute worst franchise I can imagine to build an MMO around. Popular? Certainly popular enough to generate immediate interest. But also IMPOSSIBLE to strike a balance between the established lore and the players' desires. You will, quite simply, never be able to make anyone happy in a Star Wars MMO. I don't care who develops it; it cannot be done. Bioware would be crazy to try it.
I agree!
While something like KotOR is a very good single player RPG game, where you are the hero, I really doubt it will work in an MMO world where everyone are invincible hero's.
Ironically enough I think the old original SWG was and will most likely be the best attempt ever to have a working SW MMO. Unfortunally the idea of the old SWG wasn't compatible with greedy marketing people and especially not with the visions of LucasArts/SOE. To me the old SWG was very much a living StarWars world, but to others it was apparently not "iconic" or "Starwarsy" enough.
...Oh god, I can't believe I said those two words!
To me the old SWG was very much a living StarWars world, but to others it was apparently not "iconic" or "Starwarsy" enough. ...Oh god, I can't believe I said those two words!
Eww, dude, do you need a bar of soap and a toothbrush? those are some serious no no's.
To me the old SWG was very much a living StarWars world, but to others it was apparently not "iconic" or "Starwarsy" enough. ...Oh god, I can't believe I said those two words!
Eww dude do you need a bar of soap and a toothbrush? those are some serious no no's.
The only way Bioware or any dev is going to be able to make a successful Star Wars mmo is by leaving Jedi as NPCs.
This thread has already clearly shown that playable Jedi will continue to ruin any mmo made from this IP.
And for those who don't think a Star Wars mmo could get enough subscribers without playable Jedi, I beg to differ. There are a million cultures, planets, systems, intersteller conflicts, stories, people, in the Star Wars universe that Jedi can remain the minority that they are and people will still play and have fun. The people who must have Jedi as playable or need to stroke their e-peen as the "alpha" class are 1.) a guaranteed minority and 2.) the ones who will ruin any mmo, not just Star Wars.
To me the old SWG was very much a living StarWars world, but to others it was apparently not "iconic" or "Starwarsy" enough. ...Oh god, I can't believe I said those two words!
Eww dude do you need a bar of soap and a toothbrush? those are some serious no no's.
Nah! I think I managed to spit it out in time.
Thanks for the concern though.
Yea, anytime, I can only imagine what that must have been like though....
I hate to say it, but 2 star wars MMO's will never exist at the same time. That would be Lucas arts competing against itself, and that is just stupid. The bioware MMO will most likely be something like Baldur's gate online, or Neverwinter Nights online IF they are using an already established IP. If not it will probably be something completely new, and probably good because they are a great company.
If nothing else, the buyout of Bioware pretty much guarantees that nothing D&D will come of the MMO. If you think Atari is letting EA near their license, you are insane.
Ninja??? or any Hand weapon specialist Were the hell they come from???
This has got to be a first person shooter!!! With Lvls of ability added Into the progress.
And a univers 20 times the size of vanguard.
Space And Planets have to be Togueter.
The cooless Was having Your very own ship And blowing up Stuff with it. then flying out into a astroid field
Your ship is like your car! Everyone has one
SW Should be played like Having a ship and crew in the time of pirates in the sea But in space with (cowBoy)Laser Guns.
Everyone in this game Should start the same and, Work your way to Make your charackter special and unique.
SWG Was Great like with its crafting! And player city! (remeber Sky city in the movie). The economy was very SW Like ! The combat was horrible.
My Table top SW RPGing Most memerable time, Were spent Exploring new planets , finding New races Building Little armada and citys, amassing wealth, Upgreading/modifiing MY Ship. (nothing more fun then pimping your ride right?) Trading/smuggling. Discovering new tecknology. Fighting Off Bounty hunters in the cantina, Blowing up that star destroyer!
The economy was very SW Like ! The combat was horrible
Make a Good SW MMo and ill be the first to come back !!!
If they want more Jedi BS Might as well Get the blender out.....
Why is KOTOR being compared to SWG? Totally different timelines, environments, characters, stories... KOTOR has Jedi, Sith, Dark Jedi, force users, etc, etc. There is NO WAY you can make a Bioware MMO and not allow people to play as any of those classes. Stop thinking so SOE/SWG and start thinking KOTOR. Put the game in your cpu and refresh yourself, it's a completely different situation.
Sometimes I think you Star Wars fans really have no idea how you kill discussion stone dead.
How did I kill your discussion? Since you don't agree I've suddenly killed it? Give me a break and try reading my post again.
Maybe if I somehow scan in a post using Crayon you will better understand it.
My take is this and I feel this is universal in business, life, anything...
If Bioware makes their MMO with great quality (which they usually do with their RPG's) then all the problems will solve themselves. If the playerbase is entertained, if the game functions properly, if there are ideas that are different from the cookie-cutter mold, IF THE GAME IS GREAT, they can put whatever classes they want in and it will work.
The game has to be good, period. If it is a typical Bioware game then they can create a "trashman" alpha class and people will love it.
KOTOR already has a class system and skill system. It's based on the DnD core rules. Jedi are an integral part of KOTOR and are numerous during that time period. There is no need to restrict them.
KOTOR already has a class system and skill system. It's based on the DnD core rules. Jedi are an integral part of KOTOR and are numerous during that time period. There is no need to restrict them.
KOTOR already has a class system and skill system. It's based on the DnD core rules. Jedi are an integral part of KOTOR and are numerous during that time period. There is no need to restrict them.
Perfectly said.
On the contrary, in Kotor 1, the whole point of the first half of the game was to get your toon to a point where it could be transformed into a Jedi Alpha.
And as for saying that a 2009 MMO would have to have Jedi as a Beta class because it's based on 'DnD core rules' from thje 80s, I think you're reaching.
There should be no alpha class. Hell, jedi shouldn't be the only ones with force powers. Force powers should be accessible to all. All player characters should be mediocre compared to those strong with the force like the characters of the SWG movies. End of story. Jedi should be a faction you can join, force wielder should be the profession. All characters should have access to some form of force skills (intuition/luck in the very least).
There should be jedi however not as an class. hope it will have an claseless system. I think an KOTOR MMO would be great for that. However lets say 1 procent change you charater is actualy force sensitive (finding out later in the game, so poeple do not reroll there charater directly.). I also belive the main training of an Jedi should be done by an other Jedi (making it even an more rare class).
Comments
I hate to say it, but 2 star wars MMO's will never exist at the same time. That would be Lucas arts competing against itself, and that is just stupid.
The bioware MMO will most likely be something like Baldur's gate online, or Neverwinter Nights online IF they are using an already established IP. If not it will probably be something completely new, and probably good because they are a great company.
Food for thought. Ea handled Japan SWG servers, that means they have delt with both SoE and LAEC in the past with the SW license..Im not saying its true but something too think about. Bioware's past means nothing now that its EA's property...
Your argument for two coexsiting at the same time makes no sense. Eq and Eq2 both have had healthy sub bases and still generate SoE cash. Both share similar names and gameplay but one is newer and one isnt. Either you play the NGE or Both versions. Many play both Eq1 and 2 for varrious reasons. May be a small amount but im sure there are those that gladly play both.
I'm a Star Wars fan and to me any Star Wars MMORPG should not be about one aspect of the Star Wars universe SWG started out great with that, then it became a jedi circle jerk, if the MMO that BioWare is making IS a Star Wars one it had better well remember what SWG was before the NGE and look at the success even with all the bugs before the NGE because if they release a strictly jedi game I might as well resubscribe to SWG because at least I have a lvl 90 Jedi their already and I can go play patty cake with all the other jedi's. So IMHO a KOTOR game is not the way to go they need to do something else because I'm not going from one jedi orgy to another because everyone loves big glowing sticks and if you want to know what part of Star Wars I want you needn't look further than my avatar. Jedi are a TINY part in the Star Wars universe, there are politics, wars between planets, constant threats from outside the outer rim, you name it, its there and all these games arent seeing it so IMO this game will flop and will be no better than the NGE if it is KOTOR. For instance How many people actually want to do some underground type stuff and actually smuggle? Or do some actual player bounty hunting on the people that smuggled or even if they killed another player for no reason? What about the whole Hutt underground network? or the other Undergrounds? I can keep going because this is something Ive thought about since the CU when things started to slide down hill actually it was probably Patch 9 and 10 when it started to slide down, Im so tired of this narrowmindedness when it comes to Star Wars its a huge universe with LOTS of history that people have expanded on over the years since the 70's. Its time to bring Star Wars into today and forth for the next generation or let it die now with all this narrowmindedness crap. Ive heard of rumors that the next guy that makes the movies wants to KILL off the darkside of the force how can you kill off a choice? Either understand what Star Wars is or leave it alone and let it fade into memory but DONT reduce it.
When SWG came out, it was pretty successful, but not wildly successful, and LA wanted wildly successful.
So, the solution, it was reasoned by the marketing braintrust at LA was that all our Jedi games sell well, what SWG needs is Jedi, and lots of them.
Well, now, here we are approaching the 2nd anniversary of the NGE, with insta-Jedi from the getgo, and what do you know, it seems that Jedi were NOT the key to SWG being wildly successful.
So what does this tell us?
That perhaps Jedi are NOT the be-all and end-all of Star Wars storytelling?
I suspect strongly that if KOTOR online, if there is to be such a thing, is NOT a smash hit, or fails to meaningfully echo KOTOR and KOTOR II but in an MMO enviornment, it may kill Star Wars forever as an MMO IP.
It's going to take more than just having your toon toss a saber around to make it successful. The gameplay is going to have to be able to stand up on its own without the bells and whistles of the Star Wars name.
That's the key. SOE had a chance to do that, and because they and their Neimodian partners at LA wanted their ROI right this kriffing second, and they failed to listen to beta testers who WANTED the game to be a smash hit but knew that if it went gold too early it would flop, they wound up with a legendary flop.
But they know better than their own customers what their customers want. Based on focus groups that, from all accounts, never played SWG.
Brilliant.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Exactly, if they are going to Try and make a Star Wars MMO they had better put some deep thought into it and actually think about it and do the research. Do you think they can make a decent game with in a year about a subject that has been RAGING for almost 40 and expect to satisfy the consumer? There is no way, and to be honest the story line alone would take almost 2-3 years to come up with to what you want all going on just on release day within the game if it is a Star Wars universe not to mention all the content later on that you plan on releasing for a Star Wars MMO. If they want to make a Great Star Wars MMO they had better hope to devote atleast 10-20 years of their life and not let it flop like SWG did in the long run. Hell Look how long UO has been going. Its not an easy thing to do to ask some one to devote that long of time but if Im paying for the game I dont want to be disappointed when I quit out of boredom, if anything I want to play till they decide they are done with the game and want to move on to different things or until I feel like I can quit on a good note because I would have done something for further players in the game. If they want to have a successful MMO they need to do something new and inventive not SWG:NGE on graphical steroids.
While something like KotOR is a very good single player RPG game, where you are the hero, I really doubt it will work in an MMO world where everyone are invincible hero's.
Ironically enough I think the old original SWG was and will most likely be the best attempt ever to have a working SW MMO. Unfortunally the idea of the old SWG wasn't compatible with greedy marketing people and especially not with the visions of LucasArts/SOE. To me the old SWG was very much a living StarWars world, but to others it was apparently not "iconic" or "Starwarsy" enough.
...Oh god, I can't believe I said those two words!
Eww, dude, do you need a bar of soap and a toothbrush? those are some serious no no's.
Eww dude do you need a bar of soap and a toothbrush? those are some serious no no's.
Nah! I think I managed to spit it out in time.
Thanks for the concern though.
The only way Bioware or any dev is going to be able to make a successful Star Wars mmo is by leaving Jedi as NPCs.
This thread has already clearly shown that playable Jedi will continue to ruin any mmo made from this IP.
And for those who don't think a Star Wars mmo could get enough subscribers without playable Jedi, I beg to differ. There are a million cultures, planets, systems, intersteller conflicts, stories, people, in the Star Wars universe that Jedi can remain the minority that they are and people will still play and have fun. The people who must have Jedi as playable or need to stroke their e-peen as the "alpha" class are 1.) a guaranteed minority and 2.) the ones who will ruin any mmo, not just Star Wars.
Eww dude do you need a bar of soap and a toothbrush? those are some serious no no's.
Nah! I think I managed to spit it out in time.
Thanks for the concern though.
Yea, anytime, I can only imagine what that must have been like though....
If nothing else, the buyout of Bioware pretty much guarantees that nothing D&D will come of the MMO. If you think Atari is letting EA near their license, you are insane.
I played SW , Game top RPG for a very long time ,
And the truth is, no one ever played a jedi.
Doctors ??? WTH is that???
Ninja??? or any Hand weapon specialist Were the hell they come from???
This has got to be a first person shooter!!! With Lvls of ability added Into the progress.
And a univers 20 times the size of vanguard.
Space And Planets have to be Togueter.
The cooless Was having Your very own ship And blowing up Stuff with it. then flying out into a astroid field
Your ship is like your car! Everyone has one
SW Should be played like Having a ship and crew in the time of pirates in the sea But in space with (cowBoy)Laser Guns.
Everyone in this game Should start the same and, Work your way to Make your charackter special and unique.
SWG Was Great like with its crafting! And player city! (remeber Sky city in the movie). The economy was very SW Like ! The combat was horrible.
My Table top SW RPGing Most memerable time, Were spent Exploring new planets , finding New races Building Little armada and citys, amassing wealth, Upgreading/modifiing MY Ship. (nothing more fun then pimping your ride right?) Trading/smuggling. Discovering new tecknology. Fighting Off Bounty hunters in the cantina, Blowing up that star destroyer!
The economy was very SW Like ! The combat was horrible
Make a Good SW MMo and ill be the first to come back !!!
If they want more Jedi BS Might as well Get the blender out.....
HITs Frapey!
alpha classes ruin mmo's, swg is a prime example of that.
Played: SWG 2.5 years, WoW 4 years
Tried: RF Online, Ryzom, Daoc, CoH/CoV, Lotro, Vanguard, Guild Wars
Beta Tested: SWG, RF Online, Lotro, Potbs, Tabula Rasa, G&H, Perfect World
Sometimes I think you Star Wars fans really have no idea how you kill discussion stone dead.
How did I kill your discussion? Since you don't agree I've suddenly killed it? Give me a break and try reading my post again.
Maybe if I somehow scan in a post using Crayon you will better understand it.
My take is this and I feel this is universal in business, life, anything...
If Bioware makes their MMO with great quality (which they usually do with their RPG's) then all the problems will solve themselves. If the playerbase is entertained, if the game functions properly, if there are ideas that are different from the cookie-cutter mold, IF THE GAME IS GREAT, they can put whatever classes they want in and it will work.
The game has to be good, period. If it is a typical Bioware game then they can create a "trashman" alpha class and people will love it.
KOTOR already has a class system and skill system. It's based on the DnD core rules. Jedi are an integral part of KOTOR and are numerous during that time period. There is no need to restrict them.
Perfectly said.
Perfectly said.
On the contrary, in Kotor 1, the whole point of the first half of the game was to get your toon to a point where it could be transformed into a Jedi Alpha.
And as for saying that a 2009 MMO would have to have Jedi as a Beta class because it's based on 'DnD core rules' from thje 80s, I think you're reaching.
There should be no alpha class. Hell, jedi shouldn't be the only ones with force powers. Force powers should be accessible to all. All player characters should be mediocre compared to those strong with the force like the characters of the SWG movies. End of story. Jedi should be a faction you can join, force wielder should be the profession. All characters should have access to some form of force skills (intuition/luck in the very least).
There should be jedi however not as an class. hope it will have an claseless system. I think an KOTOR MMO would be great for that. However lets say 1 procent change you charater is actualy force sensitive (finding out later in the game, so poeple do not reroll there charater directly.). I also belive the main training of an Jedi should be done by an other Jedi (making it even an more rare class).