how many???

tu_uilwen · October 2007

how many people actually play horizons? I played back in the day but then they started switching companies and all so.....how many peopel still play and is it worth it?

dand3 · October 2007

Originally posted by tu_uilwen

how many people actually play horizons? I played back in the day but then they started switching companies and all so.....how many peopel still play and is it worth it?

Number of people playing is climbing, but low. After some major changes, especially to dragon and newcomer play about a year and a half ago, subs were climbing nicely, and server populations were fine. When EI/PMI bought Hz about 14 mo. ago, population started dropping; no development, notorious billing issues, etc. Now that Virtrium, a company based on a core of the original developers has Hz, the populations are climbing again, probably mostly old players returning.

The new owners have, in two months or so, made quite a few improvements, not least being a very good billing system. They were able to hit the ground running as it were...

If you left before the bankruptcy, you'll find a lot of changes; Dragon Ancient Rite added to the Adult Rite of Passage, new northern continent, many new islands, guild neighborhoods, tiers IV, V and some VI added, dragon lairs, stronger dragons, Kwellens and Vexators, many many more high level evils, and on and on. Very recently, they finished and put into the game some improvements to the client program; over the years it has improved quite a bit.

Samuraisword · October 2007

Well that didn't answer the question. How about some numbers?

Maidin · October 2007

Donno about the number of people playing there, but fact is they have a big problem on their hands with Vista support. Most gamers have top-notch systems and these come with Vista Pre installed. Getting rid of it is not something alot of them will do. Yes yes, there will be tweakers that do, but the majority isn't going to take the trouble.

I tried jumping through their hoops until the point it had completely broken Vista and I had to reinstall. This brings up a rather disturbing image of how the code and it's condition is. Almost all the "old" games run perfectly well in Vista. Some may need administrator privileges, but they do run.

If software needs to be tweaked into the extreme (talking about modifying Dot Net Redist downloads, etc) it only signals one thing: extremly bad, unmanageable and potentially dangerous code. Even after giving the software permission to run in, roughly translated: i-am-bill-gates mode with all compatibility bells & whistles , it simply refuses to start and crashes.

Well, small sidestep to the original question, but unless they get their code right and people can download, install and log-on with no hoops to jump through you will not see massive numbers.

Grtz. & copy;

M.

dand3 · October 2007

Vista is not supported now; it is a top priority of course. Hz has to be Vista-compatible to succeed, a point not missed by the devs.

Numbers; the best source is http://mmogdata.voig.com/ which is pretty much the only available MMO authority. Numbers during the EI phase are optimistic, otherwise they jibe with independent information.

The fundamental question, "Is it worth it" is the key; numbers are a subset of that issue. I think it is, others think it is, but MMO Mileage varies notoriously.

Eichenkatze · October 2007

Apparently the game is in new hands, and a lot of current players i've talked to have high hopes for the game. I played briefly in the late-beta and for a couple weeks post-launch. It wasn't a bad game, but wasn't big enough to keep my interest. The dragon system and "Players create the world" system is innovative, but i really think the worlds should have been large (maybe thrice the size) with TONS of open nothingness to expand on. Many players have expressed the want for a new server or the wipe of a current one to start a new, as populating the world with Cities and exploring was what had made the game fantastic from their views.

I still hold a small place for this game in my heart's interest. I would love to see the game hit new heights and come back into the world as a major contendor. But right now it seems to be off the radar for the major MMOG populus.

I've thought about resubscribing a couple of times, but i'm not sure its worth my cash. Last time i talked to someone they said servers were pretty barren with the exception of few small times and a certain server.. but that was over six months ago that I had last asked.

dand3 · October 2007

Since release, the Northern Continent has been added, and quite a few islands, many to make room for plots and guild sites. At release the mobs were tiers I-III, to level 60; now many, many more areas have been populated, with mobs running to tier VI, level 120.

The world events, reclaiming the satyr islands, freeing Feladan and recalling the dryads had mostly been designed in beta; after release, and especially after the merger, the staff did, and does, not exist to recreate those. On the other paw, home and lair building can keep you occupied for quite a while; a tier VI Grand Hall in a lair is an enormous project, and stunning to see. Plots no longer held by subscribers will be reclaimed after a grace period and emails; this will be done after the disposessed European players are ported to the US servers. Reclamation should make plots available to all who want one; and if not, I'd expect to see some more new islands.

I believe marketing is being held mostly to letting former players know that a fresh wind is blowing. The game probably will not be broadly marketed until the Vista compatibility revisions are released.

I don't think it will be a major contender; the times have changed. However it will make a solid group of players happy for a long time. It does have several features that are still unique.

Hadesprime · October 2007

my last pop counts taken a week ago...over 5 days

Order 7PM eastern average 257 Visible online High recorded 289

Chaos 7PM eastern average 325 Visible online High recorded 352

Order 9PM easter average 268 visible online High recorded 297

Chaos 9PM easter average 339 visible online High recorded 361

Thats about what it was when Tulga folded. I would expect with the recent cratering of Ryzom those numbers will climb as ex Ryzom'ers have been trying the game. But they won't climb that much.

I wouldn't say that Vitrium's servers can handle more than 500 concurrent connections. Server performance dwindles as more people sign on and you know when its getting busy. Maybe they can address that problem but i think that will require a total engine replacement. Or more realistically they will have to upgrade their servers which were leased for the merge of the old servers.

dand3 · October 2007

Interesting that that's the same as when Tulga was sold. At that time, it's since been disclosed that there were over 10k subs. (Reliable source, not DB.) Also of some interest that the server pops are that close; Order used to have about 50-60% as many players as Chaos iirc. I doubt 10k players now, probably more time/player is the reason for the similarity. In any event, at this point, the critical matter is that subs are rising; not that that's a surprise given the last year.

On a staff poll, the spawn system was the change the highest percentage of players wanted; and the spawn system is the result of the smaller servers Tulga leased when AE went bankrupt. So it seems reasonable to me that the servers will be upgraded in order to improve the spawn system; and it should not be that large a job, as the server code is supposed to be quite good, and it was moved to the smaller servers pretty expeditiously when they were merged. And of course going to larger, faster servers is much easier than going the other way.

TherosIron · October 2007

Originally posted by dand3

Interesting that that's the same as when Tulga was sold. At that time, it's since been disclosed that there were over 10k subs. (Reliable source, not DB.) Also of some interest that the server pops are that close; Order used to have about 50-60% as many players as Chaos iirc. I doubt 10k players now, probably more time/player is the reason for the similarity. In any event, at this point, the critical matter is that subs are rising; not that that's a surprise given the last year.
On a staff poll, the spawn system was the change the highest percentage of players wanted; and the spawn system is the result of the smaller servers Tulga leased when AE went bankrupt. So it seems reasonable to me that the servers will be upgraded in order to improve the spawn system; and it should not be that large a job, as the server code is supposed to be quite good, and it was moved to the smaller servers pretty expeditiously when they were merged. And of course going to larger, faster servers is much easier than going the other way.

The above is a paid advertisment for Horizons

Dont you love it when a shill says stuff like " oh but subs are going up " ummm HOW considering Vista isnt supported ??

ummm how since lag is STill a major problem and as you said SPAWNS are still a problem ?

oh and what about the lack of content post level 20 adventure ???

its about time the shilling stopped and the company in charge started telling the masses whats going on !!!

oh i cant say this on the official forum either because the shill brigade would shut me up and fill my private msg box with pure hate

dand3 · October 2007

Originally posted by TherosIron

Originally posted by dand3

Interesting that that's the same as when Tulga was sold. At that time, it's since been disclosed that there were over 10k subs. (Reliable source, not DB.) Also of some interest that the server pops are that close; Order used to have about 50-60% as many players as Chaos iirc. I doubt 10k players now, probably more time/player is the reason for the similarity. In any event, at this point, the critical matter is that subs are rising; not that that's a surprise given the last year.

On a staff poll, the spawn system was the change the highest percentage of players wanted; and the spawn system is the result of the smaller servers Tulga leased when AE went bankrupt. So it seems reasonable to me that the servers will be upgraded in order to improve the spawn system; and it should not be that large a job, as the server code is supposed to be quite good, and it was moved to the smaller servers pretty expeditiously when they were merged. And of course going to larger, faster servers is much easier than going the other way.

The above is a paid advertisment for Horizons

I have no connection with Virtrium. Not paid a cent. Utterly untrue, but an indication of what the writer is willing to say despite the absence of supporting facts.

Dont you love it when a shill says stuff like " oh but subs are going up " ummm HOW considering Vista isnt supported ?? Slander by innuendo. Subs ARE going up. Vista is not universally adopted, and indeed many are waiting for SP1 or new machines before switching. Some are dual booting, and not just for Hz.

ummm how since lag is STill a major problem and as you said SPAWNS are still a problem ? Because many have a sense of proportion. No game is perfect; the players obviously feel the unique virtues of Hz outweigh the irritants. BTW, I have a 4 year old machine, 7800GS AGP vid card, 2G RAM, and I have view distance maxed, shadows off, ground clutter 25%, and all detail maxed high, and I am not stuttering. There has been a lot of work on the client, some recently and ongoing, and it shows. Nor do I have a memory leak.

oh and what about the lack of content post level 20 adventure ??? There was a severe lack of content above 50 three years ago. This is so wrong as to be just silly. Until Vi have the game where they want it, they are not marketing strongly. As a result, the rise in subs is largely from returners who had been discouraged by PMI/EI. So the population atm is unusually weighted on the high side; indication that there is indeed content for higher level players. Even the Rite of Passage to become an adult dragon and fly requires a 45ish level. The Ancient Rite is 95ish or higher.

its about time the shilling stopped and the company in charge started telling the masses whats going on !!!The current management is the most communicative I've seen, and has let players know what they consider important, and DOES listen to players. First fee proposal was fully explained, then totally reworked per player comments.

oh i cant say this on the official forum either because the shill brigade would shut me up and fill my private msg box with pure hate Not many like someone who spreads untruths in an abrasive style for undisclosed reasons.

If you've found the perfect game for you, go play it. Let us know what it is, and why it lacks any flaws.

TherosIron · October 2007

Rite of passage and ancient are DRAGON BASED and oh 2 bloody quests is CONTENT for a whole game is it ?? quests stop at level 20 for bipeds and apart from a handful of minor epics there aint much else

untruths ?? get a grip and take another shill pill i was ripped apart for questioning the price rise hard on the heals of AE/TULGA version 2 taking over !! more so because of the timing after the eii sillyness. AND they still put the price up while you shill boys applauded the idea and browbeat others not agreeing with you ...like you are now ... watch your labeling laddie liar is a BIG accusation !!!

how about you take the rosey glasses off and have a good hard look at how much WORK needs to done to bring this game into the realm of working titles asking 15 bucks a sub.

dande you really should ask Vi for a pay check as your doing alot of free lance advertising for em !

dand3 · October 2007

Originally posted by TherosIron

Rite of passage and ancient are DRAGON BASED and oh 2 bloody quests is CONTENT for a whole game is it ?? quests stop at level 20 for bipeds and apart from a handful of minor epics there aint much else It was stated that there was no content above level 20. Flatly untrue, and I picked two quest series (they're NOT single quests) to illustrate the point. I chose those because they're for the most popular race, the dragons. And because they are so basic to the game that it showed your lack of knowledge. Now it's "well name more, and I'll keep saying that's not enough"?
untruths ?? get a grip and take another shill pill i was ripped apart for questioning the price rise hard on the heals of AE/TULGA version 2 taking over !! Their style is very different from Tulga's. more so because of the timing after the eii sillyness. AND they still put the price up while you shill boys applauded the idea and browbeat others not agreeing with you ...like you are now ... watch your labeling laddie liar is a BIG accusation !!!
how about you take the rosey glasses off and have a good hard look at how much WORK needs to done to bring this game into the realm of working titles asking 15 bucks a sub. You overlook the $9.95 sub, which does not include plot purchase, but is otherwise complete. And of course many returnees chose the grandfather rate.
Something is worth exactly what people are willing to pay; obviously it's worth it to the players.
dande you really should ask Vi for a pay check as your doing alot of free lance advertising for em ! Shucks, it's just what I do...

TherosIron · October 2007

Clap Clap Clap oh your good ...very good

been taking lessons have we ?

love the way shills take written words and twist the context for their own means

Dragons the most popular race ? now that is a HUGE quote to make

my lack of knowlege ? thats a needless potshot and the ' well name more' where in the blue blazes did i say that ...putting words into another persons mouth now are we ??

'Their style is very different to Tulgas " and that means what exactly hmmm ?

I didnt overlook the 9.95 sub as that sub is essentially useless as you shills push the ' you can own a plot and build on it ' mantle ! which as you so well point out YA CANT FOR 9.95

sorry laddie but you have fallen into the all so easy trap of shilling for love .

Svayvti · October 2007

TherosIron did you work for EI or something? Back when I played things weren't nearly as bad as you're describing it and if the Virtrium devs have been working on it, it can only be better.

Good luck to Horizons, they need it in the current market but if Virtrium really cares about the game I believe they can do it.

dand3 · October 2007

Originally posted by TherosIron

Clap Clap Clap oh your good ...very good Thank you but it's easy actually.
been taking lessons have we ?No skill needed to tell it like it is.
love the way shills take written words and twist the context for their own means I'm glad you like it.
Dragons the most popular race ? now that is a HUGE quote to make Not really. I didn't quote anyone; and two minutes observing or fiddling with /who shows this to be correct. It is one of Hz's most unusual features, and no surprise that it's so popular. Another unusual feature is the multiclassing, allowing a player to tailor a character with skills from different classes.
my lack of knowlege ? thats a needless potshot No, without that being pointed out, with an example, people might believe that you were authoritative.and the ' well name more' where in the blue blazes did i say that ...putting words into another persons mouth now are we ?? Actions spoke louder...
'Their style is very different to Tulgas " and that means what exactly hmmm ?Just what it says.
I didnt overlook the 9.95 sub as that sub is essentially useless as you shills push the ' you can own a plot and build on it ' mantle ! which as you so well point out YA CANT FOR 9.95Horizons does a good job of catering to different styles of play. If you hunt only, and have no interest in constructing, then here's a playstyle for you that will save you some money too.
sorry laddie but you have fallen into the all so easy trap of shilling for love .Shilling is a paid promotion. I am not paid, and have no connection whatsoever (beyond subscribing) with Virtrium. True, however, that quite a few do love the game, which is why it survives.

Rihahn · December 2007

Originally posted by TherosIron

Dragons the most popular race ? now that is a HUGE quote to make

Chaos - 12/17/07@5pm Mountain: 43 dragons, 7 dryads, 4 dwarves, 6 elves, 8 fiends, 12 gnomes, 3 half giants, 16 humans, 12 saris, 3 satyr, 11 sslik: 125 seen this run

Chaos - 12/18/07@5pm Mountain: 32 dragons, 9 dryads, 2 dwarves, 4 elves, 6 fiends, 9 gnomes, 6 half giants, 18 humans, 8 saris, 1 satyr, 9 sslik: 104 seen this run

Chaos - Currently (12/19/07@ 2:20 Mountain): 29 dragons, 4 dryads, 5 dwarves, 6 elves, 0 fiends, 1 gnome, 3 half giants, 10 humans, 4 saris, 3 satyr, 2 sslik: 67 seen this run

So, yes, dragons are the most popular race.

If you desire to be unique, the satyr are the least represented race on my census spreadsheets.

Overall, of an evening on Chaos there are between 200 and 250 players online peak. In the last week there has been 18 new characters seen, of this 18 12 have made it past 10th level and 7 made it past 20th.

Of course my sample is pretty small right now with only 4 days, but I'll continue to update here if folks are interested.

(game metrics are kind of a hobby for me.)

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