Mob Rules... Let's be honest here at least half of people who spew the venom at SOE and it's contemporaries are bandwagon jumpers. You all know the script..My brothers, best friends sister doesn't like SOE so neither do I. People love to pile on to feel a part of something larger themselves. Yep mob rules, i mean how many of the haters have actually had a negative experience with said company maybe half?!. For whatever reason Individual thought seems to be out of fashion these days. Now I'm not making light of fundamental game changes ( SWG) because it sucks to be handed a new game after it's been out 2 years. Trust me I've seen this first hand ( The CoX I5 / ED debacle) but at some point you need to move on.. So while SWG vets have a legitimate beef at some point you've got to let it go. I mean how many years has it been now?.
yeah but SOE gives us all a reason, i hated most of there games for either hating them, them being trash ect. But then the one game that i do enjoy from them and i dont understand why you wouldnt make a 2ND PLANETSIDE!!! since it would be the only game of its kind currently and if you ask me was FING AWESOME, and Core combat was the worst expansion in history
Let's be honest here at least half of people who spew the venom at SOE and it's contemporaries are bandwagon jumpers.
That's an absolutely unsubstantiated claim.
I don't think I've run into even one single person over the years who LOATHES Sony Online Entertainment who *didn't* play Star Wars Galaxies.
You'd think that if 'bandwagonning' were the norm, I'd have bumped into at least, you know...one or two...who'd never played the game.
I think it's safe to say that the majority of Veteran SWG players are not happy with what happened with the NGE. At the time, SWG was also the largest North American MMO, with somewhere around 300,000 subscribers.
150,001 (50% +1 = majority) or more players talking about their own personal experiences is a pretty significant number of pissed off people, no matter how you slice it.
I don't believe you *need* 'Bandwagonners' with that base number of people. Even if only 10% of those ever post in a forum, that's still 'enough'.
I agree with you regarding moving on...however, at the same time, that's a blade that cuts both ways. It's certainly easier to see (and not care) that your ex hasn't changed is still (insert self destructive behavior here), when you have a new love of your life to concentrate on.
Sadly, nobody else is actively courting us, so we just get to watch our ex continue with their trainwreck of a life, and we continue to b**ch about their behavior in public to warn others to stay away, and to try (vocally) to get them to mend their (insert self destructiveness here) ways.
Your scenario has been claimed to be false by both former and current SOE employees. The head of 'Customer Relations' for all of SOE answered a direct question, asking if LucasArts forced the NGE on SOE, by saying that the folks at SOE conceived and developed the NGE without LucasArts forcing it on them. The NGE was SOE's baby, LucasArts just approved it.
* Points to the poster above me*
"Lying to customers, even over insignificant things, seems to be standard procedure for SOE. "
I'm sorry, I've done software development in a former life (I still do a bit of it in my current position, just not nearly as much as before).
The short span of time between the rollouts of CU and NGE is completely insufficient for the development and testing of code with the breadth and scope of the changes that were implemented in NGE unless the code changes in NGE were developed in parallel with the code changes in CU.
Which leads to an interesting conundrum...
Q: What software developer would code heavily on two independent projects (the second being a rip'n'replace for the first) for the same product at the same time, with the intent to roll them out within 60-90 days of one another?
A: None of them, unless they were forced to.
Coding 'assets' (Programmers) are too valuable a resource to have them do more than bugfix projects that Management already set at date for obsolescence.
There's something very fishy there...You simply don't keep programmers dedicated to CU programming once you've determined that NGE is 'the big push', and that NGE will launch within 60-90 days of the CU Launch. It just doesn't make business sense, and if there's just ONE thing that Sony's shown you can count on from them, it's that decision making is based on business logic and return on their investment.
They can come out and say 'That's not how it was!' all they want, but until they develop the honesty and transparency to say 'That's not how it went down...it went down like this instead, and here's who drove each effort, and why we did it this way.', then anything else they say on the matter is suspect.
Jeff Freeman, a former Lead Gameplay Designer on SWG, did that to an extent on the SWG vet forums on this site.
I don't think I've run into even one single person over the years who LOATHES Sony Online Entertainment who *didn't* play Star Wars Galaxies. Unqote
Sorry...not sure ghow to do quotes.
Doesn't this sum things up perfectly though?
The truth is, from what I remember ,SOE was getting a beating even before the NGE.
People...give it a break. All MMO developers in my experience make mistakes...SOE just did it with SWG. ..that's their crime. They aren't the devil anymore than Turbine or Blizzard and their customer service is no worse that that of other companies.
No, I'm not subscribed to any SOE games...the only game I play the moment are CoH and DDO...just recently cancelly UO...I'm no-ones fanboi.
Credit where credit is due...thats my motto...as previously mentioned people make mistakes...companies are made of people. MMORPGers vote with their feet and the fact that after Blizzard SOE 'probably' accounts for the next biggest gaming community says something.
Don't write theit or any other games off cause of the distributor.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the reviews of MMORPG.com or its management.
Uhm- there are at least several thousand folks who hate SoE because of what they did to PlanetSide who never played Star Wars Galaxies. I'm one of them.
I also hate them because of their business model. Takes lots of shitty MMOs run on the cheap, put them in one package, and charge a premium subscription price for them. This should be the single most alarming concept to gamers because if it catches you're all screwed.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
That's an absolutely unsubstantiated claim. I don't think I've run into even one single person over the years who LOATHES Sony Online Entertainment who *didn't* play Star Wars Galaxies. Unqote Sorry...not sure ghow to do quotes. Doesn't this sum things up perfectly though? The truth is, from what I remember ,SOE was getting a beating even before the NGE. People...give it a break. All MMO developers in my experience make mistakes...SOE just did it with SWG. ..that's their crime. They aren't the devil anymore than Turbine or Blizzard and their customer service is no worse that that of other companies. No, I'm not subscribed to any SOE games...the only game I play the moment are CoH and DDO...just recently cancelly UO...I'm no-ones fanboi. Credit where credit is due...thats my motto...as previously mentioned people make mistakes...companies are made of people. MMORPGers vote with their feet and the fact that after Blizzard SOE 'probably' accounts for the next biggest gaming community says something. Don't write theit or any other games off cause of the distributor.
For me is has nothing to do with some vendetta against SOE, it's just that I had horrible experience with their custom service. And when I have a really bad experience with a certain company I won't use their services or give them patronage if I can at all help it.
So it makes perfect sense to me when people say they won't buy a given company's services or products because previous issues with them.
This is the way it should work, as the company must improve or it goes bankrupt and is replaced by its competition. Either way the consumer, or this case the gamer, wins.
That's an absolutely unsubstantiated claim. I don't think I've run into even one single person over the years who LOATHES Sony Online Entertainment who *didn't* play Star Wars Galaxies. Unqote Sorry...not sure ghow to do quotes. Doesn't this sum things up perfectly though? The truth is, from what I remember ,SOE was getting a beating even before the NGE. People...give it a break. All MMO developers in my experience make mistakes...SOE just did it with SWG. ..that's their crime. They aren't the devil anymore than Turbine or Blizzard and their customer service is no worse that that of other companies. No, I'm not subscribed to any SOE games...the only game I play the moment are CoH and DDO...just recently cancelly UO...I'm no-ones fanboi. Credit where credit is due...thats my motto...as previously mentioned people make mistakes...companies are made of people. MMORPGers vote with their feet and the fact that after Blizzard SOE 'probably' accounts for the next biggest gaming community says something. Don't write theit or any other games off cause of the distributor.
For me is has nothing to do with some vendetta against SOE, it's just that I had horrible experience with their custom service. And when I have a really bad experience with a certain company I won't use their services or give them patronage if I can at all help it.
So it makes perfect sense to me when people say they won't buy a given company's services or products because previous issues with them.
This is the way it should work, as the company must improve or it goes bankrupt and is replaced by its competition. Either way the consumer, or this case the gamer, wins.
Trying to make a Star Wars game was a mistake in the first place. That niche of people will never be satisfied.
Secondly, if I stopped frequenting a business after one bad experience, I would be unable to grocery shop, I would be unable to get water, electricity, or even cable. I would be unable to buy name brand products in general. Personally I dont want to live like an Amish man.
Well, since everyone is talking about the "hatred" for SOE for screwing up SWG with the NGE, I guess I'll join in....
Those people who keep thinking that NGE is Lucas Arts' fault... do some research... NGE was designed in SOE, and Lucas Arts just approve the system to replace the old... So Lucas Arts does take blame, just not for the design of NGE (the approval of NGE, yes.. design, NO).
Now that's out of the way, the reason I dislike SOE is basically that I was there when the abomination that is called NGE went on live servers. I remember the expansion was getting some players very excited, since along with it they said they will do some revamp for certain professions... LIES!!!
When the news of NGE went on the forum, thousands of players were shocked. And when SOE put the NGE into Test Center, thousands tried to connected to Test Center to see the change and whatnot... (I didn't even get in until the third day of the NGE on Test Center when there's less people.)...
NGE was buggy, and many found that it isn't ready for live... and many players (myself included) went on the forum pleading to SOE not to push NGE to live server... Did they listen? NO, they went ahead with their plan and pushed the crappy NGE into live....
Ok, since I paid for the whole year (counting from August), so I guess I'll take the time to play the new system then... (nothing out there worth my time...) So I tried, at least for a month and a half... then I said no more, and I gave away my account to my neighbor that plays SWG only because it is Star Wars....
So, to sum up, the lies, deceptions, and the way they treat their customers are all the reasons why I hate SOE... I won't hide the fact that I don't like the NGE controls and interface, but that's because I thought it is best for a new game, and after the kinks have been fixed for the system... But to replace an older game with half-working system only? That's just ridiculous.
That's an absolutely unsubstantiated claim. I don't think I've run into even one single person over the years who LOATHES Sony Online Entertainment who *didn't* play Star Wars Galaxies. Unqote Sorry...not sure ghow to do quotes. Doesn't this sum things up perfectly though? The truth is, from what I remember ,SOE was getting a beating even before the NGE. People...give it a break. All MMO developers in my experience make mistakes...SOE just did it with SWG. ..that's their crime. They aren't the devil anymore than Turbine or Blizzard and their customer service is no worse that that of other companies. No, I'm not subscribed to any SOE games...the only game I play the moment are CoH and DDO...just recently cancelly UO...I'm no-ones fanboi. Credit where credit is due...thats my motto...as previously mentioned people make mistakes...companies are made of people. MMORPGers vote with their feet and the fact that after Blizzard SOE 'probably' accounts for the next biggest gaming community says something. Don't write theit or any other games off cause of the distributor.
For me is has nothing to do with some vendetta against SOE, it's just that I had horrible experience with their custom service. And when I have a really bad experience with a certain company I won't use their services or give them patronage if I can at all help it.
So it makes perfect sense to me when people say they won't buy a given company's services or products because previous issues with them.
This is the way it should work, as the company must improve or it goes bankrupt and is replaced by its competition. Either way the consumer, or this case the gamer, wins.
Trying to make a Star Wars game was a mistake in the first place. That niche of people will never be satisfied.
Secondly, if I stopped frequenting a business after one bad experience, I would be unable to grocery shop, I would be unable to get water, electricity, or even cable. I would be unable to buy name brand products in general. Personally I dont want to live like an Amish man.
Well it really has to do with the severity of a bad experience. Mine with SOE was pretty awful. Bad enough that I won't go near their games until I hear of improvements from a reliable source.
Also, I really haven't had bad experiences with name brands. If I did, I buy from their competitor. As long there is a choice, it shouldn't be a problem. So I can't relate to that comment.
In terms of water, electricity and cable, generally people can't choose where they get theirs from, there's only one option, hence the shitty service.
Consumers (gamers) should be responsive to companies, game makers and otherwise, and vote with their wallets, as I said in a previous post. This how the market does and should function.
I think you wil find that we hate a company more if they had a great game and then it turned bad more than a company who just had a bad product from the beginning. Torrential
I didn't play Star Wars Galaxies and I think SOE suck.
Certain companies are more prone to produce sucky games than others.
A lot of people hate on EA, myself I think they are rahter good, buy UBISOFT rather poor.
EA produces a lot of games so if 1 or 2 suck, that actually is a good ratio of poor quality ot high quality games.
UBISOFT and SOE howver have a very low ration of high Quality to low quality games, and SOE a reputation for destroying fun games more than for making poor ones.
I will however buy more game from all of these puiblishers if they have a good one.
There are other companies however who's dealing with me have been unsatisfactory. From whom i feel I did not get the service I paid for and for whom my issues have not in my opinion been reasonably resolved. I won;t bother mentioning them so that distraught fanboy's can all argue the toss, but simply state that I can be put off their purchases for life in extreme cirumstances.
If I feel they still owe me money for example, I'll never give them any more.
I also have issues of trust with certain companies. Certainly I would never again pre-order a game from Either Ubisoft or SOE. I would never risk my money on them without a trial. Over the years I have learnt to predict the quality of their titles and purchase with extreme caution.
On the other hand there are companies out there in whom I still have absolute trust. I don't need a trial of any Quake game. Or Unreal. I'll buy any Blizzard game on faith. Or any Relic title. Funcom and Mythic's new MMO's aren't something I'll be worried about trying first.
So, people won't play SOE games because they ruined SWG, however they did improve EQ2 which is a good game. People won't play EA games because they ruined UO yet now they have taken over Mythic people 'may' forgive them because they 'may' release a new SW MMO. So, are people pissed at the companies that make the games or that they ruined a game they liked that had a very loyal fanbase? SOE makes some good games...EQ2 being one of them. EQ is still going strong from what I can gather so why is there such hate towards them...is it just because they ruined SWG? It just seems that people are willing to vilify SOE for ruining games while at the same time being willing to jump to another company with a record of doing the same thing...EA. MMo's invoke really strong emotions...no doubt because of the time and effort we pour into them and I guess the answer to the above question will be that we go off our own experiences. I have nothing against SOE but I never played SWG. I did play UO and don't like the way EA has performed while in charge. Also, maybe we should look at ourselves when blaming these companies (and I know I'm gonna get flamed for this) as we ask for selfish changes that suit us to the detriment of others, and other people do the same to the detriment of us. Eventually the game dynamic is ruined...but really its just many people getting what they asked for. Obviously the devs throw their own ideas in too but by this point their vision is all awry and doesn't fit with the changes we as players have demanded. I guess what we should all remember is that companies are in it to make money and one of the basics of business is to give the customer what they want. Basically, be carefull what you ask for, you might get it...and so might the druids and the warlocks and the rangerrs and the jedi and the frigates........ I hope this makes sense...I didn't put much thought into the structure, just wrote it as it came to me.
Well I think your post makes a lot of sense in ways. Changes to suit one person, for example, might not be to the liking of someone else. Given that's the case, MMO companies probably have some tough choices at times. There are a few things I think though, that set the SWG experience apart from changes to other MMO's.
First let me say that I play a game that has had some changes and a recent nerf to something that I happened to enjoy. That didn't cause me any undo distress though because the change was communicated clearly along with a rationale; it was communicated well in advance of the change, it didn't change core game mechanics, it didn't delete any progress or remove anything that was integrally a part of the character I took over a year to create. So what set the NGE thing apart from a typical game change or "nerf"?
-well there's the quest line I'd been working on for 1.5 years, deleted in one night
-then there are the 3 professions I mastered over 1.5 years, deleted in one night
-there were the veteran rewards, given for loyally playing the game for so long, changed into something else that was relatively worthless overnight,
-then there were the disabling of items purchased with real money in two expansions--I'll stop saying overnight now, 'cuz I think you get me,
-then of course was probably what was the worst for me, SOE talked about their latest expansion and how cool it was going to be for certain professions. SOE knew these professions were about to be deleted, and that items for them in the new expansion (which I was very excited about when I got them) were about to become useless, within a short 2 weeks time in fact if I remember right. AND they waited to announce the wholesale game mechanics change until I think the day after our Visa payments for the new expansion went through.
-I could go on to say that in the new mechanics I couldn't walk or chat (bugged so that both were not functional at all--we had to send mails to each other saying--wtf just happened etc.) and that when I could eventually walk around, the combat "specials" didn't fire, and the heals healed enemies.
So what have you got there? All work on character gone, all work on quests gone, all core functionality impaired, and the cherry on top was feeling lied to about the new expansion and the future of the game.
I don't know what SOE has done in their other games, but you put all that stuff together and it's really just brutal if you ask me.
Then the treatment of players who tried to say "what the heck are you doing?" was also brutal on the part of SOE. I won't go on about that, cuz I think I've said enough and there are tons of posts about that situation in the SWG vet forum. The comment that StarWars fans are just hard to please is extremely mild though in comparison. And to that poster on this thread I would say, "look up and see just a part of what we lost, and maybe you'll "get" why we were less than satisfied.
This whole deal was also dragged on waaay too long by SOE and LA refusing to acknowledge that they had done anything wrong. For the longest time, they also denied that it had a negative impact on the game. Man, that is just going to get people riled until you finally say, "yeah we screwed up and we're sorry." The SOE president finally said something to that effect in a recent article on Warcry, but that was a long time coming, and the LA rep still denies that anything went wrong--jeez.
Add to that the fact that StarWars has a real emotional connection to a whole generation and you've got yourself a real emotional disaster here.
So this wasn't really just nerfing an ability, or changing balance to a game. I've had to upgrade hardware to accommodate that kind of change in my new game, and it didn't bother me in the least. I expected that might happen, and was prepared to upgrade if necessary. I don't think anyone could reasonably expect what SOE/LA did in SWG. It really blew people's minds. To me, that whole deal is in a class of it's own.
If you want to look at biological psychological factors also, the brain tends to remember bad experiences more vividly than good ones, unless the bad ones are so traumatic that they are repressed. The theory is that this is a survival mechanism to prevent us from approaching things that have caused us serious harm in the past.
If SOE is good to it's players in EQII, I'm honestly glad for those players, but my experience in SWG made a really lasting impression I'm afraid.
So, in summary the hate generated towards SOE is pretty much just to do with SWG and the NGE with a few extra jabs thrown in while we were at it anyhow?
Well tbh I don't feel what I would call a "hate" towards anyone. I just had a very bad experience, and it was bad on so many levels that it was really shocking. That has definitely had a lasting impact on me. I don't comment on other SOE games because frankly I've never played them, and I can't comment on something I haven't experienced in a very well informed way. What I saw in SWG though gave me an impression of "the way business is done" at SOE, or at the very least in one branch of the company.
It was o.k. with them to advertise an expansion with features they knew they were deleting. Honestly in my jurisdiction that's fraudulent misrepresentation. People really felt burned by that, and that they were deceived out of their real cash, not just some in-game credits.
It was also o.k. with them to change an entire game's core systems to cater to focus groups of people that weren't playing. So this had nothing to do with current players asking for change as you suggest. They didn't care about current players according to one former SOE staffer who has posted on these boards. They wanted numbers more like wow, and changed their target audience, flushing their entire current playerbase's accomplishments down the toilet. The SOE staff person said they knew we wouldn't like it and that some of us would leave, but that anticipated net-population gains allowed them to justify their actions. That's how I understand the posts at any rate. If I'm misinterpreting, Dundee will have to clarify.
Really this isn't about one profession getting nerfed, me losing in-game money, or anything like that. It's about a business philosophy that apparently puts current customers last on the priority list. It just feels nasty to get treated like that, and it leads one to question the ethics of the decision makers.
Along the same lines, I submitted numerous tickets and bug reports in SWG. For one bug in particular (an NPC wouldn't follow me). I never got an answer at all. The bug was fixed about 6 months later, and the quest was shortly thereafter deleted altogether with NGE. In comparison, I had the exact same bug in City of Heroes. An NPC wouldn't follow me. I submitted a ticket, and a support staff person sent me a tell in under 10 minutes, and fixed the bug on the spot. That's just an isolated example of a pattern of non-response I got from SOE, and a pattern of excellent response I've had in CoH.
Also, in the SOE game I encountered serious bugs on nearly a daily basis, and then got no support with them. In CoH, I've encountered bugs I think 4 times in a year and a half, and the support has been very refreshing. Overall this gives me an entirely different feeling. In one situation, my current one, I feel valued and respected. In the previous situation, I felt the opposite, on too many occasions.
So, in summary the hate generated towards SOE is pretty much just to do with SWG and the NGE with a few extra jabs thrown in while we were at it anyhow?
LOL...Oh and don't forget SOE's to blame for the Vanguard debacle, those toy's from China, Global Warming and the ever popular Aids epidemic.
/Sarcasm off.
Every top MMO publishers has royally screwed up at some point be it bad launches, crap expansions retooling combat systems etc. Now It's up to the consumer to forgive and forget or not but let's keep it fair. I've had a bone or two with SOE myself. That being said If you're gonna throw stones at SOE you better be throwing them at Mythic, Blizzard, NCsoft, Turbine etc and so on.
I have legitimate reasons for hating E.A.: Dungeon Keeper, Sim City, et al.
I also do not like what they did with Neverwinter Nights 2. It was not E.A. (Oblivion?)
I am disappointed with SOE with what they did to Everquest, principally beginning with Velious to a certain extent but really forcing raiding in PoP. WoW, I think, we undermined with TBC.
----- WoW and fast food = commercial successes. I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
Is it me or is there a small handful of people trying to point the blame to the players? Funny because that recently happened in the SWG Veteran Refuge:
I hope the OP is not pointing fingers at the people that got burnt and saying it was our fault ... that would be very uninformed.. especially for a mmorpg.com writer.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Ravenshield, R6 Lockdown, R6 Vegas. The Sum Of All Fears, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 are all examples of poor quality Ubisoft games. They have had some good ones mind you, but just more bad ones.
All their titles are made on a budget with very little development hours.
Along the same lines, I submitted numerous tickets and bug reports in SWG. For one bug in particular (an NPC wouldn't follow me). I never got an answer at all. The bug was fixed about 6 months later, and the quest was shortly thereafter deleted altogether with NGE. In comparison, I had the exact same bug in City of Heroes. An NPC wouldn't follow me. I submitted a ticket, and a support staff person sent me a tell in under 10 minutes, and fixed the bug on the spot. That's just an isolated example of a pattern of non-response I got from SOE, and a pattern of excellent response I've had in CoH. Also, in the SOE game I encountered serious bugs on nearly a daily basis, and then got no support with them. In CoH, I've encountered bugs I think 4 times in a year and a half, and the support has been very refreshing. Overall this gives me an entirely different feeling. In one situation, my current one, I feel valued and respected. In the previous situation, I felt the opposite, on too many occasions.
NCSoft are on my "won't ever buy from again list".
All due to COH. Not only did their technical support point blank refuse to help as a matter of prinicple they went on to send me spam abuse by email daily (until I blocked their address).
I cancelled all my payments to them from my credit card. Since Tech support was part of the deal and they refused to provide it, I consider that it voided my contractual obligation to them. My CC company agreed.
Shame really because like you I felt the overall quality of the game was very high and the game very fun. I don't think the over-excessive nerfs to my character predisposed me to take any shit from them however.
It is because of COH, that when people discuss Star Wars Galaxies nerf's, I understand where they are coming form.
That's an absolutely unsubstantiated claim. I don't think I've run into even one single person over the years who LOATHES Sony Online Entertainment who *didn't* play Star Wars Galaxies. Unqote Sorry...not sure ghow to do quotes. Doesn't this sum things up perfectly though? The truth is, from what I remember ,SOE was getting a beating even before the NGE. People...give it a break. All MMO developers in my experience make mistakes...SOE just did it with SWG. ..that's their crime. They aren't the devil anymore than Turbine or Blizzard and their customer service is no worse that that of other companies. No, I'm not subscribed to any SOE games...the only game I play the moment are CoH and DDO...just recently cancelly UO...I'm no-ones fanboi. Credit where credit is due...thats my motto...as previously mentioned people make mistakes...companies are made of people. MMORPGers vote with their feet and the fact that after Blizzard SOE 'probably' accounts for the next biggest gaming community says something. Don't write theit or any other games off cause of the distributor.
First off I would like to say that I don't hate SOE or any other game developers. I played SWG and I do not like what they did to the game.
I was like going out to eat and ordering a nice steak. Half way through dinner the waiter comes by and replaces my steak with a cold hot dog and says this is what you really want to eat. I may not hate the resturant but I'm not going to eat there any more. And I will tell everyone that I know about what happened. Most people that listen to the story would not eat there either even if they did not hate it. That's what the NGE was like and why I do not currently play any SOE games.
Yes SWG was getting beat up before the NGE it started about six months before the NGE when the real beatings started. They called it the CU. You see they had said that they were working on the CURB but instead gave us something other than what they said or what players had ask for. (this would have been like bring grilled chicken in the above analogy, not what you order but but it still taste okay).
You ask the question why people hate some companies and I can't answer because I don't hate. But You turn around and say let it go that the people should get over it. I disagree. If some one feels that strongly about something then it is their right. If you want real answers let people answer your question and quit saying that the hot dog doesn't taste bad.
Along the same lines, I submitted numerous tickets and bug reports in SWG. For one bug in particular (an NPC wouldn't follow me). I never got an answer at all. The bug was fixed about 6 months later, and the quest was shortly thereafter deleted altogether with NGE. In comparison, I had the exact same bug in City of Heroes. An NPC wouldn't follow me. I submitted a ticket, and a support staff person sent me a tell in under 10 minutes, and fixed the bug on the spot. That's just an isolated example of a pattern of non-response I got from SOE, and a pattern of excellent response I've had in CoH. Also, in the SOE game I encountered serious bugs on nearly a daily basis, and then got no support with them. In CoH, I've encountered bugs I think 4 times in a year and a half, and the support has been very refreshing. Overall this gives me an entirely different feeling. In one situation, my current one, I feel valued and respected. In the previous situation, I felt the opposite, on too many occasions.
NCSoft are on my "won't ever buy from again list".
All due to COH. Not only did their technical support point blank refuse to help as a matter of prinicple they went on to send me spam abuse by email daily (until I blocked their address).
I cancelled all my payments to them from my credit card. Since Tech support was part of the deal and they refused to provide it, I consider that it voided my contractual obligation to them. My CC company agreed.
Shame really because like you I felt the overall quality of the game was very high and the game very fun. I don't think the over-excessive nerfs to my character predisposed me to take any shit from them however.
It is because of COH, that when people discuss Star Wars Galaxies nerf's, I understand where they are coming form.
Sorry to hear about your customer service experience, that doesn't sound fun. I've also heard about nerfs to things like fire tanks in CoH's early days in the name of balance. That also sounds disturbing. I joined about a year and a half ago, so I missed this early balancing act. I might feel differently about the game if I had experienced that, it's hard to say.
One thing I do want to highlight though is the qualitative difference between balance nerfs and what happened with the NGE.
In CoH, tanks had their damage potential drastically reduced--I'm told. Another nerf was the number of fire imp pets that could be called by fire controllers--I'm told. If this was the NGE, your fire tank would entirely cease to exist. Not reduced abilities--I'm talking no abilities at all. Totally wiped out. You levelled him up to 50, and ALL the abilities along with their animations are gone. ALL enhancements purchased for tank powers are worth nothing at all because the powers they enhance have simply ceased to exist. As for the fire imp pets? No pets allowed at all. Controllers with pets would also completely cease to exist. To add insult to injury, you would have pictures of your imps in storage, but you wouldn't be able to call them. Don't ask me why this would be done to you, but that's what happened in the NGE. Creature Handlers ceased to exist and ALL their pets were locked in storage that the players could see but not access. This went on for 2 years. Not only that, but you would have just paid real cash for an expansion designed with special features for Fire tanks and Fire imp controllers. The day after your payment was accepted, you would be told that Fire tanks and Fire controllers were being deleted and all the features for them in the expansion you just bought will be useless. And the hits just keep coming--if you ask about what's happening on the forums, you could get posts deleted, locked, and you could get banned from posting (bad press for new game "enhancements" was strongly discouraged). And when you try to explain that you just bought a useless expansion, you'll be called a whiner, a crybaby, and mentally ill by players who just joined the game to try the new system.
I'll add that I had serious nerfs happen to my Teras Kasi Master in SWG long before the NGE. I rolled with it. Tbh that profession really was overpowered in my view. That was the kind of game change I reasonably expected might occur. On a scale of 1-10 (10 being really bothered), I'd rate my TKM nerf at about a 2. Complete deletion of 3 professions? Never saw that one coming. Pets completely removed from gameplay and locked in people's datapads? Never saw that one coming. Selling an expansion advertising features for professions you're planning to delete in a few weeks? Never saw that one coming. Banned from forums and called names for questioning the changes and making suggestions to try to salvage the game?... On a scale of 1-10 (10 being really bothered) I'd rate my NGE experience at a 10, taken in the context of gaming experience and customer service etc. I use a whole different scale for experiences outside of the MMO world.
The NGE was in a class of its own when it comes to ways that a game could change.
EA stole money from my credit card account and refused to pay it back.
SOE refused to pay me back for the faulty product Vanguard. Pity, cause I really liked playing EQ, EQ2, SWG. It was like buying a color tv that only showed black and white pictures. I wouldn't accept that either, and would never even look at another tv from that company again.
All companies that cheat their costumers will get a bad reputation, simple, really.
Comments
yeah but SOE gives us all a reason, i hated most of there games for either hating them, them being trash ect. But then the one game that i do enjoy from them and i dont understand why you wouldnt make a 2ND PLANETSIDE!!! since it would be the only game of its kind currently and if you ask me was FING AWESOME, and Core combat was the worst expansion in history
I don't think I've run into even one single person over the years who LOATHES Sony Online Entertainment who *didn't* play Star Wars Galaxies.
You'd think that if 'bandwagonning' were the norm, I'd have bumped into at least, you know...one or two...who'd never played the game.
I think it's safe to say that the majority of Veteran SWG players are not happy with what happened with the NGE. At the time, SWG was also the largest North American MMO, with somewhere around 300,000 subscribers.
150,001 (50% +1 = majority) or more players talking about their own personal experiences is a pretty significant number of pissed off people, no matter how you slice it.
I don't believe you *need* 'Bandwagonners' with that base number of people. Even if only 10% of those ever post in a forum, that's still 'enough'.
I agree with you regarding moving on...however, at the same time, that's a blade that cuts both ways. It's certainly easier to see (and not care) that your ex hasn't changed is still (insert self destructive behavior here), when you have a new love of your life to concentrate on.
Sadly, nobody else is actively courting us, so we just get to watch our ex continue with their trainwreck of a life, and we continue to b**ch about their behavior in public to warn others to stay away, and to try (vocally) to get them to mend their (insert self destructiveness here) ways.
Your scenario has been claimed to be false by both former and current SOE employees. The head of 'Customer Relations' for all of SOE answered a direct question, asking if LucasArts forced the NGE on SOE, by saying that the folks at SOE conceived and developed the NGE without LucasArts forcing it on them. The NGE was SOE's baby, LucasArts just approved it.
* Points to the poster above me*
"Lying to customers, even over insignificant things, seems to be standard procedure for SOE. "
I'm sorry, I've done software development in a former life (I still do a bit of it in my current position, just not nearly as much as before).
The short span of time between the rollouts of CU and NGE is completely insufficient for the development and testing of code with the breadth and scope of the changes that were implemented in NGE unless the code changes in NGE were developed in parallel with the code changes in CU.
Which leads to an interesting conundrum...
Q: What software developer would code heavily on two independent projects (the second being a rip'n'replace for the first) for the same product at the same time, with the intent to roll them out within 60-90 days of one another?
A: None of them, unless they were forced to.
Coding 'assets' (Programmers) are too valuable a resource to have them do more than bugfix projects that Management already set at date for obsolescence.
There's something very fishy there...You simply don't keep programmers dedicated to CU programming once you've determined that NGE is 'the big push', and that NGE will launch within 60-90 days of the CU Launch. It just doesn't make business sense, and if there's just ONE thing that Sony's shown you can count on from them, it's that decision making is based on business logic and return on their investment.
They can come out and say 'That's not how it was!' all they want, but until they develop the honesty and transparency to say 'That's not how it went down...it went down like this instead, and here's who drove each effort, and why we did it this way.', then anything else they say on the matter is suspect.
Jeff Freeman, a former Lead Gameplay Designer on SWG, did that to an extent on the SWG vet forums on this site.
Qutoe
That's an absolutely unsubstantiated claim.
I don't think I've run into even one single person over the years who LOATHES Sony Online Entertainment who *didn't* play Star Wars Galaxies. Unqote
Sorry...not sure ghow to do quotes.
Doesn't this sum things up perfectly though?
The truth is, from what I remember ,SOE was getting a beating even before the NGE.
People...give it a break. All MMO developers in my experience make mistakes...SOE just did it with SWG. ..that's their crime. They aren't the devil anymore than Turbine or Blizzard and their customer service is no worse that that of other companies.
No, I'm not subscribed to any SOE games...the only game I play the moment are CoH and DDO...just recently cancelly UO...I'm no-ones fanboi.
Credit where credit is due...thats my motto...as previously mentioned people make mistakes...companies are made of people. MMORPGers vote with their feet and the fact that after Blizzard SOE 'probably' accounts for the next biggest gaming community says something.
Don't write theit or any other games off cause of the distributor.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the reviews of MMORPG.com or its management.
Neil Thompson
Staff Writer
MMORPG.com
Uhm- there are at least several thousand folks who hate SoE because of what they did to PlanetSide who never played Star Wars Galaxies. I'm one of them.
I also hate them because of their business model. Takes lots of shitty MMOs run on the cheap, put them in one package, and charge a premium subscription price for them. This should be the single most alarming concept to gamers because if it catches you're all screwed.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
So it makes perfect sense to me when people say they won't buy a given company's services or products because previous issues with them.
This is the way it should work, as the company must improve or it goes bankrupt and is replaced by its competition. Either way the consumer, or this case the gamer, wins.
For me is has nothing to do with some vendetta against SOE, it's just that I had horrible experience with their custom service. And when I have a really bad experience with a certain company I won't use their services or give them patronage if I can at all help it.So it makes perfect sense to me when people say they won't buy a given company's services or products because previous issues with them.
This is the way it should work, as the company must improve or it goes bankrupt and is replaced by its competition. Either way the consumer, or this case the gamer, wins.
Trying to make a Star Wars game was a mistake in the first place. That niche of people will never be satisfied.
Secondly, if I stopped frequenting a business after one bad experience, I would be unable to grocery shop, I would be unable to get water, electricity, or even cable. I would be unable to buy name brand products in general. Personally I dont want to live like an Amish man.
Well, since everyone is talking about the "hatred" for SOE for screwing up SWG with the NGE, I guess I'll join in....
Those people who keep thinking that NGE is Lucas Arts' fault... do some research... NGE was designed in SOE, and Lucas Arts just approve the system to replace the old... So Lucas Arts does take blame, just not for the design of NGE (the approval of NGE, yes.. design, NO).
Now that's out of the way, the reason I dislike SOE is basically that I was there when the abomination that is called NGE went on live servers. I remember the expansion was getting some players very excited, since along with it they said they will do some revamp for certain professions... LIES!!!
When the news of NGE went on the forum, thousands of players were shocked. And when SOE put the NGE into Test Center, thousands tried to connected to Test Center to see the change and whatnot... (I didn't even get in until the third day of the NGE on Test Center when there's less people.)...
NGE was buggy, and many found that it isn't ready for live... and many players (myself included) went on the forum pleading to SOE not to push NGE to live server... Did they listen? NO, they went ahead with their plan and pushed the crappy NGE into live....
Ok, since I paid for the whole year (counting from August), so I guess I'll take the time to play the new system then... (nothing out there worth my time...) So I tried, at least for a month and a half... then I said no more, and I gave away my account to my neighbor that plays SWG only because it is Star Wars....
So, to sum up, the lies, deceptions, and the way they treat their customers are all the reasons why I hate SOE... I won't hide the fact that I don't like the NGE controls and interface, but that's because I thought it is best for a new game, and after the kinks have been fixed for the system... But to replace an older game with half-working system only? That's just ridiculous.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
So it makes perfect sense to me when people say they won't buy a given company's services or products because previous issues with them.
This is the way it should work, as the company must improve or it goes bankrupt and is replaced by its competition. Either way the consumer, or this case the gamer, wins.
Trying to make a Star Wars game was a mistake in the first place. That niche of people will never be satisfied.
Secondly, if I stopped frequenting a business after one bad experience, I would be unable to grocery shop, I would be unable to get water, electricity, or even cable. I would be unable to buy name brand products in general. Personally I dont want to live like an Amish man.
Well it really has to do with the severity of a bad experience. Mine with SOE was pretty awful. Bad enough that I won't go near their games until I hear of improvements from a reliable source.Also, I really haven't had bad experiences with name brands. If I did, I buy from their competitor. As long there is a choice, it shouldn't be a problem. So I can't relate to that comment.
In terms of water, electricity and cable, generally people can't choose where they get theirs from, there's only one option, hence the shitty service.
Consumers (gamers) should be responsive to companies, game makers and otherwise, and vote with their wallets, as I said in a previous post. This how the market does and should function.
Yes, We do.
We hate things that suck. Simple as that.
If I buy a truck and it breaks down weekly, I'll hate the maker and never purchase from them again.
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I didn't play Star Wars Galaxies and I think SOE suck.
Certain companies are more prone to produce sucky games than others.
A lot of people hate on EA, myself I think they are rahter good, buy UBISOFT rather poor.
EA produces a lot of games so if 1 or 2 suck, that actually is a good ratio of poor quality ot high quality games.
UBISOFT and SOE howver have a very low ration of high Quality to low quality games, and SOE a reputation for destroying fun games more than for making poor ones.
I will however buy more game from all of these puiblishers if they have a good one.
There are other companies however who's dealing with me have been unsatisfactory. From whom i feel I did not get the service I paid for and for whom my issues have not in my opinion been reasonably resolved. I won;t bother mentioning them so that distraught fanboy's can all argue the toss, but simply state that I can be put off their purchases for life in extreme cirumstances.
If I feel they still owe me money for example, I'll never give them any more.
I also have issues of trust with certain companies. Certainly I would never again pre-order a game from Either Ubisoft or SOE. I would never risk my money on them without a trial. Over the years I have learnt to predict the quality of their titles and purchase with extreme caution.
On the other hand there are companies out there in whom I still have absolute trust. I don't need a trial of any Quake game. Or Unreal. I'll buy any Blizzard game on faith. Or any Relic title. Funcom and Mythic's new MMO's aren't something I'll be worried about trying first.
Soem companies suck. Some do not.
Which Ubisoft game sucked?
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Well I think your post makes a lot of sense in ways. Changes to suit one person, for example, might not be to the liking of someone else. Given that's the case, MMO companies probably have some tough choices at times. There are a few things I think though, that set the SWG experience apart from changes to other MMO's.
First let me say that I play a game that has had some changes and a recent nerf to something that I happened to enjoy. That didn't cause me any undo distress though because the change was communicated clearly along with a rationale; it was communicated well in advance of the change, it didn't change core game mechanics, it didn't delete any progress or remove anything that was integrally a part of the character I took over a year to create. So what set the NGE thing apart from a typical game change or "nerf"?
-well there's the quest line I'd been working on for 1.5 years, deleted in one night
-then there are the 3 professions I mastered over 1.5 years, deleted in one night
-there were the veteran rewards, given for loyally playing the game for so long, changed into something else that was relatively worthless overnight,
-then there were the disabling of items purchased with real money in two expansions--I'll stop saying overnight now, 'cuz I think you get me,
-then of course was probably what was the worst for me, SOE talked about their latest expansion and how cool it was going to be for certain professions. SOE knew these professions were about to be deleted, and that items for them in the new expansion (which I was very excited about when I got them) were about to become useless, within a short 2 weeks time in fact if I remember right. AND they waited to announce the wholesale game mechanics change until I think the day after our Visa payments for the new expansion went through.
-I could go on to say that in the new mechanics I couldn't walk or chat (bugged so that both were not functional at all--we had to send mails to each other saying--wtf just happened etc.) and that when I could eventually walk around, the combat "specials" didn't fire, and the heals healed enemies.
So what have you got there? All work on character gone, all work on quests gone, all core functionality impaired, and the cherry on top was feeling lied to about the new expansion and the future of the game.
I don't know what SOE has done in their other games, but you put all that stuff together and it's really just brutal if you ask me.
Then the treatment of players who tried to say "what the heck are you doing?" was also brutal on the part of SOE. I won't go on about that, cuz I think I've said enough and there are tons of posts about that situation in the SWG vet forum. The comment that StarWars fans are just hard to please is extremely mild though in comparison. And to that poster on this thread I would say, "look up and see just a part of what we lost, and maybe you'll "get" why we were less than satisfied.
This whole deal was also dragged on waaay too long by SOE and LA refusing to acknowledge that they had done anything wrong. For the longest time, they also denied that it had a negative impact on the game. Man, that is just going to get people riled until you finally say, "yeah we screwed up and we're sorry." The SOE president finally said something to that effect in a recent article on Warcry, but that was a long time coming, and the LA rep still denies that anything went wrong--jeez.
Add to that the fact that StarWars has a real emotional connection to a whole generation and you've got yourself a real emotional disaster here.
So this wasn't really just nerfing an ability, or changing balance to a game. I've had to upgrade hardware to accommodate that kind of change in my new game, and it didn't bother me in the least. I expected that might happen, and was prepared to upgrade if necessary. I don't think anyone could reasonably expect what SOE/LA did in SWG. It really blew people's minds. To me, that whole deal is in a class of it's own.
If you want to look at biological psychological factors also, the brain tends to remember bad experiences more vividly than good ones, unless the bad ones are so traumatic that they are repressed. The theory is that this is a survival mechanism to prevent us from approaching things that have caused us serious harm in the past.
If SOE is good to it's players in EQII, I'm honestly glad for those players, but my experience in SWG made a really lasting impression I'm afraid.
Well tbh I don't feel what I would call a "hate" towards anyone. I just had a very bad experience, and it was bad on so many levels that it was really shocking. That has definitely had a lasting impact on me. I don't comment on other SOE games because frankly I've never played them, and I can't comment on something I haven't experienced in a very well informed way. What I saw in SWG though gave me an impression of "the way business is done" at SOE, or at the very least in one branch of the company.
It was o.k. with them to advertise an expansion with features they knew they were deleting. Honestly in my jurisdiction that's fraudulent misrepresentation. People really felt burned by that, and that they were deceived out of their real cash, not just some in-game credits.
It was also o.k. with them to change an entire game's core systems to cater to focus groups of people that weren't playing. So this had nothing to do with current players asking for change as you suggest. They didn't care about current players according to one former SOE staffer who has posted on these boards. They wanted numbers more like wow, and changed their target audience, flushing their entire current playerbase's accomplishments down the toilet. The SOE staff person said they knew we wouldn't like it and that some of us would leave, but that anticipated net-population gains allowed them to justify their actions. That's how I understand the posts at any rate. If I'm misinterpreting, Dundee will have to clarify.
Really this isn't about one profession getting nerfed, me losing in-game money, or anything like that. It's about a business philosophy that apparently puts current customers last on the priority list. It just feels nasty to get treated like that, and it leads one to question the ethics of the decision makers.
Along the same lines, I submitted numerous tickets and bug reports in SWG. For one bug in particular (an NPC wouldn't follow me). I never got an answer at all. The bug was fixed about 6 months later, and the quest was shortly thereafter deleted altogether with NGE. In comparison, I had the exact same bug in City of Heroes. An NPC wouldn't follow me. I submitted a ticket, and a support staff person sent me a tell in under 10 minutes, and fixed the bug on the spot. That's just an isolated example of a pattern of non-response I got from SOE, and a pattern of excellent response I've had in CoH.
Also, in the SOE game I encountered serious bugs on nearly a daily basis, and then got no support with them. In CoH, I've encountered bugs I think 4 times in a year and a half, and the support has been very refreshing. Overall this gives me an entirely different feeling. In one situation, my current one, I feel valued and respected. In the previous situation, I felt the opposite, on too many occasions.
LOL...Oh and don't forget SOE's to blame for the Vanguard debacle, those toy's from China, Global Warming and the ever popular Aids epidemic.
/Sarcasm off.
Every top MMO publishers has royally screwed up at some point be it bad launches, crap expansions retooling combat systems etc. Now It's up to the consumer to forgive and forget or not but let's keep it fair. I've had a bone or two with SOE myself. That being said If you're gonna throw stones at SOE you better be throwing them at Mythic, Blizzard, NCsoft, Turbine etc and so on.
Otherwise you're not to be taken seriously..
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
I have legitimate reasons for hating E.A.: Dungeon Keeper, Sim City, et al.
I also do not like what they did with Neverwinter Nights 2. It was not E.A. (Oblivion?)
I am disappointed with SOE with what they did to Everquest, principally beginning with Velious to a certain extent but really forcing raiding in PoP. WoW, I think, we undermined with TBC.
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WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
Is it me or is there a small handful of people trying to point the blame to the players? Funny because that recently happened in the SWG Veteran Refuge:
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/152824
I hope the OP is not pointing fingers at the people that got burnt and saying it was our fault ... that would be very uninformed.. especially for a mmorpg.com writer.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
All their titles are made on a budget with very little development hours.
All due to COH. Not only did their technical support point blank refuse to help as a matter of prinicple they went on to send me spam abuse by email daily (until I blocked their address).
I cancelled all my payments to them from my credit card. Since Tech support was part of the deal and they refused to provide it, I consider that it voided my contractual obligation to them. My CC company agreed.
Shame really because like you I felt the overall quality of the game was very high and the game very fun. I don't think the over-excessive nerfs to my character predisposed me to take any shit from them however.
It is because of COH, that when people discuss Star Wars Galaxies nerf's, I understand where they are coming form.
I was like going out to eat and ordering a nice steak. Half way through dinner the waiter comes by and replaces my steak with a cold hot dog and says this is what you really want to eat. I may not hate the resturant but I'm not going to eat there any more. And I will tell everyone that I know about what happened. Most people that listen to the story would not eat there either even if they did not hate it. That's what the NGE was like and why I do not currently play any SOE games.
Yes SWG was getting beat up before the NGE it started about six months before the NGE when the real beatings started. They called it the CU. You see they had said that they were working on the CURB but instead gave us something other than what they said or what players had ask for. (this would have been like bring grilled chicken in the above analogy, not what you order but but it still taste okay).
You ask the question why people hate some companies and I can't answer because I don't hate. But You turn around and say let it go that the people should get over it. I disagree. If some one feels that strongly about something then it is their right. If you want real answers let people answer your question and quit saying that the hot dog doesn't taste bad.
I don't claim to be right, I'm just posting.
NCSoft are on my "won't ever buy from again list".All due to COH. Not only did their technical support point blank refuse to help as a matter of prinicple they went on to send me spam abuse by email daily (until I blocked their address).
I cancelled all my payments to them from my credit card. Since Tech support was part of the deal and they refused to provide it, I consider that it voided my contractual obligation to them. My CC company agreed.
Shame really because like you I felt the overall quality of the game was very high and the game very fun. I don't think the over-excessive nerfs to my character predisposed me to take any shit from them however.
It is because of COH, that when people discuss Star Wars Galaxies nerf's, I understand where they are coming form.
Sorry to hear about your customer service experience, that doesn't sound fun. I've also heard about nerfs to things like fire tanks in CoH's early days in the name of balance. That also sounds disturbing. I joined about a year and a half ago, so I missed this early balancing act. I might feel differently about the game if I had experienced that, it's hard to say.
One thing I do want to highlight though is the qualitative difference between balance nerfs and what happened with the NGE.
In CoH, tanks had their damage potential drastically reduced--I'm told. Another nerf was the number of fire imp pets that could be called by fire controllers--I'm told. If this was the NGE, your fire tank would entirely cease to exist. Not reduced abilities--I'm talking no abilities at all. Totally wiped out. You levelled him up to 50, and ALL the abilities along with their animations are gone. ALL enhancements purchased for tank powers are worth nothing at all because the powers they enhance have simply ceased to exist. As for the fire imp pets? No pets allowed at all. Controllers with pets would also completely cease to exist. To add insult to injury, you would have pictures of your imps in storage, but you wouldn't be able to call them. Don't ask me why this would be done to you, but that's what happened in the NGE. Creature Handlers ceased to exist and ALL their pets were locked in storage that the players could see but not access. This went on for 2 years. Not only that, but you would have just paid real cash for an expansion designed with special features for Fire tanks and Fire imp controllers. The day after your payment was accepted, you would be told that Fire tanks and Fire controllers were being deleted and all the features for them in the expansion you just bought will be useless. And the hits just keep coming--if you ask about what's happening on the forums, you could get posts deleted, locked, and you could get banned from posting (bad press for new game "enhancements" was strongly discouraged). And when you try to explain that you just bought a useless expansion, you'll be called a whiner, a crybaby, and mentally ill by players who just joined the game to try the new system.
I'll add that I had serious nerfs happen to my Teras Kasi Master in SWG long before the NGE. I rolled with it. Tbh that profession really was overpowered in my view. That was the kind of game change I reasonably expected might occur. On a scale of 1-10 (10 being really bothered), I'd rate my TKM nerf at about a 2. Complete deletion of 3 professions? Never saw that one coming. Pets completely removed from gameplay and locked in people's datapads? Never saw that one coming. Selling an expansion advertising features for professions you're planning to delete in a few weeks? Never saw that one coming. Banned from forums and called names for questioning the changes and making suggestions to try to salvage the game?... On a scale of 1-10 (10 being really bothered) I'd rate my NGE experience at a 10, taken in the context of gaming experience and customer service etc. I use a whole different scale for experiences outside of the MMO world.
The NGE was in a class of its own when it comes to ways that a game could change.
EA stole money from my credit card account and refused to pay it back.
SOE refused to pay me back for the faulty product Vanguard. Pity, cause I really liked playing EQ, EQ2, SWG. It was like buying a color tv that only showed black and white pictures. I wouldn't accept that either, and would never even look at another tv from that company again.
All companies that cheat their costumers will get a bad reputation, simple, really.