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PARODY.. we have reached it finally.
popinjay
Member Posts: 6,539
With all the recent MMOs that came out (and have been floundering, failed, etc) there is a lot of talk amongst us players about how crappy the developers are, how unimaginative, how inept.. (insert dev flame here) and how much of a big problem it has been in the past few years. I don't think any of the above is true really. I think it all comes down to one major problem, which will not go away.
Parody.
Over the years there have always been a few standout games (we know which ones they are) that have set a bar that blew people away. After playing those games, we all got spoiled, and good. For some of us, it was our first MMO that we learned. For others, it was the promise that was fulfilled from the early mud games and stuff like Zork (yeah, couldnt wait to actually SEE what i was reading/imagining). Once we got those games in our blood, it was hard to get out. Our fingers still remember the keys and macro slots from them, even though we havent touched them in years. And since weve moved on from most of them, its been like a first girlfriend/boyfriend who gave us our first.. kiss. (ill keep it clean :P ) We simply can't forget them no matter what we do, and everything will always be compared to those monster hit games. (for me, FFXI was that)
The success of them had made some others want to improve on them, doing bigger and better things they think would make us never leave the house ever again. And we have had many innovations since.. graphics, servers, storyline.. etc. Then there was that element that saw a purely cash value on it... corporations and companies who wanted a piece of this new (to them) and growing entertainment pie.
Before there was only so many companies were you were gonna get a job. So companies could be more selective; taking only the best. Now, there are so many companies around trying to maximize a dollar that a lot of them will hire just about anyone who can code or something. Dont have to be imaginative, just code. You also have people who worked for companies saying "I can do much better on my own, AND get all the bucks.. i quit" to start their own personal flops.
To me, its just like sports. Years ago, there were only a few good teams because there were only so many top quality pitchers/quarterbacks/skill people, etc. Then you had the leagues adding more teams, and more jobs... but not more quality athletes. So then you end up with instead of 1-3 team dynasties who are truly great, anyone can win it all... once. But mainly what that produces is a lot of CRAP teams who can't get out of their own way, constantly tripping. Or a team who wins the big one, and never is heard from again. This is the future of gaming now. "Teams" are resting on their past victory ("I was the dev on EQ1, so people will follow me") and putting out product that simply is strained thin.
Each game will promise forever (Warhammer, Vanguard, Tabula, Age of Conan, Stargate, etc) to be the most this, or the newest that, and fanbois will follow, just like homers follow the Pittsburgh Pirates or the Cleveland Browns knowing deep down they always will stink.
But face it, we will be lucky to see ONE hit game over the next 5 years thats anything close to the classics. They simply arent made every year like that. Be warned.
Comments
Parody doesn't always equal mediocrity. Since you used sports I'll follow the same line of thinking. When baseball expanded pitching was as you said depleted batting stats were unreal. The homerun era was there but teams developed young pitchers and it equalled out over time. Now you have a great end product, anybody can beat anybody.
Companies will be forced to develope more and better devs as the need increases. This developement is called experience. As the younger developers get the needed experience you will have more diverse ideas and in the end a better product.
I don't claim to be right, I'm just posting.
I kind of agree with the OP. Another factor is that while in the past (think pre-3D era) it was much easier to design complex games, now the budget is swallowed with all the modelling, animation, textures and whatnot, so content becomes expensive. Team that with the factor you mentioned, bigger teams/companies where trash employees exist etc.
But once in a while a quality team with solid budget gets to work on a good idea and then legends are born. What would they be tho, if we coulnt compare it to all the trash being flung at us?
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Due to the recent economic crisis and spending cuts the light at the end of the tunnel was turned off. Sincerely, God.
Id like throw an anology in here as well. Think about todays computers for example, 10 years ago, the computer that I bought brand new blew me away. However I dont expect to be using a machine with the same power today. A product generally goes through progressions. We didnt start driving corvettes in the early 1900s. The consumer wants a product that is up to date. People dont want to play pac man, they want AoC, or Warhammer. Personally I think its just a backlash of companies making sub par clones and theyve pissed off the gaming the gaming community and left it totally jaded for new products.
The bottom line is, if you dont have the cash or the talent to make an MMO outside the normal WoW clone parameters, dont bother, youll just piss off your investors and theyll drop you like a bad habit.
No wrong answers here friend^^
But ill say this about baseball.. the pitching went down and the homerun era wasnt started because of bad pitching. It was started because of steroids in the 80s. That did balance out the game and made for some fun.
Problem is, there is no "steroid" equivalent in MMO programming. Fresh ideas and implement cannot really be "enhanced" I dont think. And want generally follows is a stagnation pool of people kind of rehashing. I like rehashing for improvements, but not as a stand in.
Id also like to say, that I think overall, the amount of idea creation is still pretty good. It seems to me as a consumer that its really more of a IMPLEMENTATION problem; they just aren't doing what they imagined or said they would do. People can imagine going to Saturn all day with many good ideas, but in the end, if you only build a one seat, copper rocket ship with seltzer water as the fuel, youre gonna end up with Vanguard.
So on a scale of 1-10, I give their ideas 8-9, while on production, quality control, and downright job quality... most get 5. Recent games to mention, LOTRO gets a 8 for production quality. That game was very polished. Vanguard.. well you know what you get. I waited for that one (ideas i loved) played it, and never thought I would only last 3 months. Really wanted that one to make it..
"TO MICHAEL!"
It's what happens when something that used to be a nice little niche comes to the general populace.
it gets watered down.
it takes one innovative product to turn something from a niche, "underground" kind of thing into a massive "one in every household" type of thing
Look at Reality television.
All it took was one good show, the original season of Survivor.... and look at the LOADS of crap that is on TV now. MTV is all about reality TV now instead of music.
MMOs are the same. It took one "break out" game, World of Warcraft, to hit it big.. and now EVERYONE and their mother in the gaming industry is making MMOs and most of them are crap.
People don't realize, even 200k-300k world wide is still a very "niche" game. There have been huge games in Asia with millions of people before/after WoW, but WoW is what really brought the MMO out of the Niche market in America/Europe.
But, chances are there will be another very good game in the future.
Will it be AoC? WAR? Spellborn? Bioware's MMO? ____________ (insert other name here)?
On'y time will tell...
all valid points but.......
ITS PARITY not parody.........can't believe no one has said anything yet.
par·i·ty1
/?pær
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ti/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[par-i-tee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun
Eh I wouldn't say we got spoiled. You really should look at the bigger picture. The fact is that the mmorpg genre wasn't nearly as big untill after wow. Before you had many diverse mmos. CoH was unique, ffxi was somewhat unique, SWG pre-cu was unique as you can get. Then came wow... and a lot more companies came into the spotlight to try and get a slice of the pie. So they made or in the process of making wow/eq clones with just a different sprinkle..
That is why people are getting pissed and seem "spoiled". The thing is you really can only do level based mmorpgs a certain way a certian amount of times before customers see that theres repeating and copying going on. I'll even give you an example: Eq quests: kill x of y. translated over to wow... which translated to all the other mmos copycats which are being produced today.
Why is this an issue? Its an issue with the players becuase one can only do these types of quests a certian amount of times before calling it a "time sink" which really thats all it is. It lacks originality. But quests isn't the only thing really.. i just wanted to pick on that.
Theres a problem here... technology is changing... meaning bigger things can be done. So one has to wonder why devs are repeating (and in many cases like wow) over repeating old ways of doing quests, old ways of doing raids, and this old "loot based" game nowadays... they could make so much more...
I really could go on but ill stop here for now, want to see what people say about things...
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Gah! someone got to the Parity definition already. Darn.
I will say, in all honesty ..must we demand a revolutionary product each year? Heck, a lot of people still dont believe we have the old MMORPGs right.
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
ROFL. I was just hitting the reply button when I got to your post, Duvious. Yikes! Brought a WHOLE new meaning to the post when I finally figured out what the heck this guy was trying to say.
Folks, I KNOW you don't want to go to English class. I KNOW you've got your spell checkers and grammar checkers and all. But, damn, sometimes you really need to take a little time and LEARN the basics to engage in effective communication.
And, yes, valid points, once I realized you weren't actually creating a Parody but talking about Parity. LOL
-- Xix
"I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"
i figure at some point, a company will build a mmo spcific engine that has a ton of excellent features and sell that similar to the unreal engine series.
then the development costs will shoot way down and the focus will be on creativity and imagination rather than technology.
as long as they are focused on graphics, technology and the mighty $$$, the games will always suck.
weve kinda already seen this with never winter nights, im sure someone will come out with a large scale version of that.
"The best MMO I have ever played in my life was FFXI."
Says it all really, you don't even know what an MMO is, so don't lecture people on how to make them. I think your quote from Brezinski sums up your own shallow knowledge of MMO's very well.
FFXI has all the features to make the greatest MMO ever existed, so don't come here talking about things you don't know about yourself.
Agree with the OP. It's the same thing as movies; Hollywood majors pump out a good 200 each year, and how many of them are actually any good..?
There's a reason why most civilized societies frown on necromancy.
Especially thread necromancy.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
You're always going to have the "top 5% best games", and by definition that's a comparative analysis which excludes the majority of games being produced.
Doesn't change the fact that I'd rather play Aion (a non Top 5% game of modern times; and a game I don't quite enjoy) than EQ1 (a Top 5% game of years past.) In other words, the net "fun" in the genre has increased. It'd be that much more noticeable if you could magically unlearn your knowledge of MMORPGs and experience it new for the first time.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Yeah,but I missed this gem the first time around, the parody vs parity is priceless.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
gasp!
I almost died trying to understand what parody had to do with what he was saying.
Me too, I was expecting some sort of joke or funny video something like.... this video, or this other parody by looking for group here. If you have not seen that second one though I highly recomend it.
Parity, that's the word I was looking for earlier. Thanks.
But the words sound the same anyways, it's not like you didn't understand what the OP meant.
Very true. Very true indeed.
They do not sound the same and I wasn't understanding a damn thing.